Very heavy fantasy - recommendations please!

Here's the thing. My favorite kind of fantasy books are those that make me feel like I'm reading a history book. That may have something to do with me wanting to major in History...
Anyway, things like Steven Erikson's Malazan books and R. Scott Bakker's trilogy. George R. R. Martin as well, though he's a bit lighter (I realise that probably looks odd to a lot of people, heh). If anyone can make some recommendations, I would really appreciate it!

I've seen Steven Donaldson's name floating around, would his books fit?

Also, if any of you have recommendations for harder sci-fi (lots of science! Yay!), those would be good as well. I love A Fire Upon the Deep and A Deepness in the Sky, but I don't know if they are considered hard sci-fi or not.

Thanks in advance for your help!

One that may suit you is Off Armageddon Reef, the first book in David Weber's new series. It looks like it's going to be a long history with an effectively immortal main character continuing through the books.

SinikkaTuuli,

Regarding hard science fiction, you might try Greg Egan-- we're talkin' references to and plots driven by topology, real analysis, theory of computation, cosmology, quantum physics, theories of consciousness and more. You might want to preview his writing by visiting his website and reading his online works (I quite like Singleton).

Do I have the series for you: Bakker's the Warrior Prophet novels. Reads like a fantasy version of the crusades, but beyond that the author does a remarkable job of creating a real and vibrant world (with a very extensive history), and some of the characters in the book are the best realized that I have read in a while. Try the first book and tell me if you don't get hooked.

I don't know exactly how a history book reads, having read so few, but Guy Gavriel Kay writes beautifully historical fantasies. His take on the Byzantine empire in his duologi The Sarantine Mosaic is very wellwritten, and a beautifully rendered timepiece.

Mary Gentle writes historical fantasy and alternate history - try ASH (it's one book split into 4 volumes by market forces http://www.librarything.com/series/ASH:%20A%20Secret%20History ), and I believe she got a PhD in medieval history out of the research she did writing it, or 1610.

Maybe try Katharine Kerr's Deverry books, or Kate Elliott's Crown of Stars series (fantasy) or her Jaran series (scifi, but pre-technological planet bound, following a nomadic conqueror).

http://www.librarything.com/series/Deverry%20Cycle
http://www.librarything.com/series/Crown%20of%20Stars
http://www.librarything.com/series/Jaran

Some tag mashes that might inspire:
http://www.librarything.com/tag/high+fantasy%2Cwar
http://www.librarything.com/tag/epic%20fantasy,historical%20fantasy

Stephen Donaldson - he's a very love him or hate him author (or ridicule his use of adjectives), I don't remember his world particularly as being rich in historical world building, but it's a long time since I read him. Actally his Modant's Need books may suit better. http://www.librarything.com/series/Mordant%27s+Need

Although I heartily disliked it you could try the Baroque Cycle by Neal Stephenson. Alternate history in detailed depth.

Lord Foul's Bane is worth trying, I love Donaldson's works. It is certainly heavy fantasy, but not historical in any way. There is a detailed world, with some urban crossover. Initally a trilogy, there is now a second and he's mid way through a final quartet. His other works are equally good, but less heavy. He also does hard SF, stick through the real story and launch into the very good 4 books of his Space opera - the Gap series.

Curse of the Mistwraith might also fit - detailed fantasy world, long running series, superb characters. No history.

C J Cherryh writes a lot of detailed works crossovers between SF and fantasy. Morgaine Saga is probably the best place for you to start with her. Detailed and complex time distorted history across several fantasy worlds.

Revelation Space is one of the best hard SF books I've read in the last few years.

You might enjoy Steve (SM)Sterling's Island in the sea of time series. It is an Alternate History
book. I did enjoy Steven R. Donaldson's series. I have read them more than once. Not quite historical. More like a parallel experience. Half fantasy world, half modern day.

Mary Gentle's A Secret History, mentioned above by Aquila, is a good bet. I haven't read it yet, but having been written by a historian, and written in the form of a history, I dare say it shall be very heavy on the worldbuilding.

Seconding amberwitch I'd also strongly recommend anything by Guy Gavriel Kay. I started with Tigana, but I'm loving The Lions of Al-Rassan even more. Worldbuilding-centric writer, his stories read like historical fiction. They're good and heavy.

I, for one, absolutely hated Stephen Donaldson's Lord Foul's Bane because the main character is revolting. I couldn't finish it. But it may be up your valley, I hear the worldbuilding is great.

I am sure there are more, but I'll have to go through my books and see.

To follow on the Mary Gentle stuff I would add Ilario to that. Set in the same world as ASH and is another great big book. Plenty of research into that as well - who would have thought that cheese glue would be a major plot point.

Maybe Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell if you haven't already read it.

You may want to consider Robert Holdstock's Mythago Wood and sequels although they don't have a mass of historical detail they do strike a chord with me. This is more an intrusion fantasy with parts of the supernatural impinging on Ryhope Wood in our normal world.

fortress in the eye of time by c.j. cherryh and flesh and spirit by carol berg have a solid historical feel.

Well, if by heavy fantasy you mean epic fantasy with historical background, you might try Sara Douglass' Troy Game quartet, starting with Hades' Daughter.

I highly recommend Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun and The Book of the Long Sun series. They are hard fantasy, with some very interesting historical aspects mixed in. It's very different from Erikson, Bakker et. al. but my most recommended books after Erikson. Donaldson's books are very good too, but I think you might miss out on some of the historical world building aspects. Glen Cook's Black Company books are pretty good too. They're pretty hard fantasy, but the exposition on the historical background isn't quite as satisfying as Erikson either.

Well I would say that Book Of The New Sun and Book Of The Long Sun are science fiction but dressed in the clothing of fantasy. They are also not straightforward stories but include unreliable narrators and a profusion of tricks and literary games and make the reader work in order to reveal what is really going on.

Maybe the Gormenghast books by Mervyn Peake would be a good choice. Loads of world building but again not an epic fantasy.

Third vote for Guy Gavriel Kay, esp. The Lions of al-Rassan, but Tigana is good too. Also, seconding Jonathan Strange.

ETA thanks to everyone for the suggestions of other good series.

I second Glen Cook's various fantasy offerings. Lots of depth, major forces at work, strong characterizations and a unique writing style. His Black Company books approach the fantasy milieu from the perspective of mercenary soldiers and have a gritty, from the bunkers style.

I'll second Curse of the Mistwraith. I wouldn't say is has no history, but it's long on fore-shadowing and encapsulated flashbacks. You might enjoy Stephen R. Donaldson's Mordant's Need duology, although I'm not sure how much history that one has, either. I don't think anyone's mentioned David Weber's Oath of Swords, and on the sci-fi end, his Honor Harrington series is both heavily detailed and lengthy.

Oh, and Patrick Rothfuss's Kingkiller Chronicle - not to my taste, personally, but the series seems to get good reviews, and it's certainly nothing if not heavy on historical details! (Book 1 = the first day....)

I ditto andyl on the Gormenghast books. Very heavy in terms of theme and plot, but extremely satisfying and even rather funny amidst all the gloom.

If you like fantasy with more of a horror edge, try The Historian by Elizabeth Kostova. It's about a daughter's search for her missing father, who was searching for (and at the same time trying to hide from) Dracula. It's creepy without being violent or gory, and the places they travel to are described extremely well.

Oooh, I second that one too! Very gripping, well-written, and creepy!

I recommend Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. The Eye of the World is the first in the series (and it does nothing but get better after that). I'm several books into the series (just finished A Crown of Swords), and it's become one of my top favorite fantasy series.

Sorry to double-post, but Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern series may fit what you're looking for as well.

I thought Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars was rather hard science-y, but I have no idea how accurate it all was.

Elizabeth Moon's Deed of Paksenarrion is a really good read.

You might also like Harry Turtledove's Videssos books. They've got a very Byzantine feel to them.

Elizabeth Moon's Deed of Paksenarrion is a really good read.

You might also like Harry Turtledove's Videssos books. They've got a very Byzantine feel to them.

@redwall_hp
I agree, Wheel of Time series really is amazing. Its a disappointment that he died before finishing the series, have read all parts so far...

No worries. Brandon Sanderson, one of our LT authors, has been hired to finish the last book in Wheel of Time. He's written Mistborn, The Well of Ascension and Elantris. I read the first two, both excellent!

Elantris is excellent as well. If you enjoyed the other two, I'd highly recommend it.

Elantris is pretty good, but (re the topic of this thread) it's far from the "heavy" end of the fantasy spectrum.

For sf I second the recommendation Alastair Reynolds' series Revelation Space and Redemption Ark are two of his books that are quite good if you enjoyed A Deepness in the Sky.

For SF heavy with philosophy rather than science, I would recommend Star Maker, by Olaf Stapledon.

The third of Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn trilogy just came out and it is wonderful. Very "heavy" fantasy, quite literally, with a definite historical sense and a concrete magic system. I couldn't recommend his stuff enough.

My recommendation would be Winter's Tale by Mark Helprin. A wonderful novel and quite unlike anything else I've ever read.

My absolutely favorite book (or perhaps books--this one came out originally in two books) is Sheri Teppers Awakeners, also called NorthShore/South Shore. It came out in 1987 and periodically I go back to read it again though I don't often reread.

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned The Silmarillion, that's written exactly as if it were a history book. It is certainly dry enough to make Tacitus look like purple prose.

The Gormenghast Trilogy certainly seems to fit the bill. Phillip Pullman's Dark Materials trilogy (very different0 is another.

On the fantasy side, definitely the Wars of Light and Shadow by Janny Wurts which starts with with The Curse of the Mistwraith. The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss as well.

On the sci-fi side, I would strongly recommend C. J. Cherryh's Foreigner series.

Adrian Tchaikovsky's "Shadows of the Apt" series (first book is Empire In Black and Gold, Dragonfly Falling was just released, and Blood of the Mantis is due out this fall) has a great amount of worldbuilding with a lot of a sense of that world's history, and has a pretty epic scale to boot.

ETA: You can't just find these on the shelf in the US, unfortunately, as they're UK-published. Amazon.com is selling them, though, for a fairly reasonable price and without the hefty shipping fees usually associated with orders from overseas. Definitely worth it.

You might like Ringworld as a Scifi with good science background at least overall. As for hard fantasy, Those Who Hunt the Night by Barbara Hambly was great.

There are quite a few that I would second or third from what has been suggested already. I will also suggest the following:

A. A. Attanasio's series that begins with The Dragon and the Unicorn.

The Shannara books by Terry Brooks are a sweeping and grand exercise in alternative fantasy history.

Hart's Hope by Orson Scott Card and the Alvin Maker series.

Just about anything by David Eddings. Though, for me, it gets a bit repetitive after a while.

Raymond E. Feist tends to write novels of dense detail and history.

Rats and Gargoyles by Mary Gentle.

For science fiction, there's always the Dune series by Frank Herbert.

Michael Stackpole has his Age of Discovery series that begins with A Secret Atlas.

The True Game series by Sherri S. Tepper.

I would also recommend Steven Brust or Tad Williams.

Good luck.

Also interesting are Warhammer books - try Blackhearts and Time of Legends novels > Time of Legends : Heldenhammer and Nagash The Sorcerer. I know Warhammer books are not "main stream fantasy" but these are great.

Also if you like adventures (with addition of fantasy elements) you can try Harold Lamb (historian by profession) - his Cossac's novels and (especially) Three Paladins are great.

As for SF you can't go wrong with Iain Banks and Larry Niven.