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1richardderus
Need something to read, but not sure what? Want to know whose writing will appeal to you if you like Author X's books? Come here, grasshopper, and let the LT Science Fiction Fans community help you.
2bobmcconnaughey
i always get a kick out of seeing what turns up @ bookmap..ie
http://www.literature-map.com/richard+morgan.html
for Richard Morgan.
A subset of the enjoyable gnod site:
http://www.gnod.net/
http://www.literature-map.com/richard+morgan.html
for Richard Morgan.
A subset of the enjoyable gnod site:
http://www.gnod.net/
3jseger9000
You know, I was thinking about this last night.
Of course, it would depend on the reader and what their interest is and all that. But what would be a good, sort of generic 'this is sci-fi that many people have liked and is a good example of the genre.'
I noticed that regardless of what we were saying in the 'SF Hall of Infamy' thread that most of mine are older sci-fi. I think that's probably just my bias though.
Of course, it would depend on the reader and what their interest is and all that. But what would be a good, sort of generic 'this is sci-fi that many people have liked and is a good example of the genre.'
I noticed that regardless of what we were saying in the 'SF Hall of Infamy' thread that most of mine are older sci-fi. I think that's probably just my bias though.
4jseger9000
Oh yeah! I forgot to recommend any books....
Okay, now I was thinking of 'classics of the genre' rather than 'good reads' for my list. I started thinking about this after reading Lola's posts in the Dune thread and she seemed to be interested in the history of sci-fi so:
2001 - I love hard sci-fi. 2001 is pretty dated, but is still worth reading. I think it serves as a good introduction to hard sci-fi as it doesn't get too esoteric.
Dune - The sequels may not stack up, but that first book really is a landmark.
The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress - Heinlein is a giant, but his writing can be pretty spotty and uneven. The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress holds up better than Stranger In a Strange Land and is less divisive than Starship Troopers.
I, Robot - Now I know Isaac Asimov has been dragged over the coals repeatedly and his prose deserves it. But his robot stories should be read. (It's a shame. I'm almost tempted to recommend Caliban, a share-cropped novel that stays very true to Isaac Asimov's vision and 'feel' but is much better written. But recommending a share-cropped novel just doesn't feel right.)
I was tempted to recommend Neuromancer, but I have attempted to read that one three times and just can't get through it. Too self-conciously hip I guess.
I also wanted to add The Stars My Destination, but my memories are too hazy...
Okay, now I was thinking of 'classics of the genre' rather than 'good reads' for my list. I started thinking about this after reading Lola's posts in the Dune thread and she seemed to be interested in the history of sci-fi so:
2001 - I love hard sci-fi. 2001 is pretty dated, but is still worth reading. I think it serves as a good introduction to hard sci-fi as it doesn't get too esoteric.
Dune - The sequels may not stack up, but that first book really is a landmark.
The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress - Heinlein is a giant, but his writing can be pretty spotty and uneven. The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress holds up better than Stranger In a Strange Land and is less divisive than Starship Troopers.
I, Robot - Now I know Isaac Asimov has been dragged over the coals repeatedly and his prose deserves it. But his robot stories should be read. (It's a shame. I'm almost tempted to recommend Caliban, a share-cropped novel that stays very true to Isaac Asimov's vision and 'feel' but is much better written. But recommending a share-cropped novel just doesn't feel right.)
I was tempted to recommend Neuromancer, but I have attempted to read that one three times and just can't get through it. Too self-conciously hip I guess.
I also wanted to add The Stars My Destination, but my memories are too hazy...
5iansales
Let's see...
... if you read thrillers, you'll like Altered Carbon.
... if you read romance, you'll like Primary Inversion.
... if you read literary fiction, you'll like Coelestis.
... if you read historical fiction, you'll like Farthing
... and I can't actually think of good books that work like this. I mean, I've read Asaro's Primary Inversion, and it definitely wasn't my kind of thing, but would I recommend it to a romance reader?
... if you read thrillers, you'll like Altered Carbon.
... if you read romance, you'll like Primary Inversion.
... if you read literary fiction, you'll like Coelestis.
... if you read historical fiction, you'll like Farthing
... and I can't actually think of good books that work like this. I mean, I've read Asaro's Primary Inversion, and it definitely wasn't my kind of thing, but would I recommend it to a romance reader?
6andyl
I'll just correct Ian a little
... if you read historical detective novels you'll like Farthing
I think that there may well be better choices for plain historical fiction but I am struggling to think of them.
... if you read historical detective novels you'll like Farthing
I think that there may well be better choices for plain historical fiction but I am struggling to think of them.
7iansales
I thought perhaps some steampunk novel for a reader of historical novels, but my mind went blank.
8CliffBurns
"My mind went blank..."
Yeah, well...
No, that's too easy.
I'll let it go this time, Sales...
Yeah, well...
No, that's too easy.
I'll let it go this time, Sales...
9richardderus
May I offer a modification to Mr. Sales' list?
...if you read mysteries, you'll like Farthing
...if you read historical fiction, you'll like Pavane
...if you read American Civil War books, you'll like Guns of the South or How Few Remain
...if you read mysteries, you'll like Farthing
...if you read historical fiction, you'll like Pavane
...if you read American Civil War books, you'll like Guns of the South or How Few Remain
12richardderus
>11 iansales: hmmm...timeliness wasn't an issue I considered. Then for historicals I would recommend The Glass Books of the Dream Eaters, which I wasn't enthralled by but which has gotten a number of positive responses from readers I know.
14iansales
You think so? A lot of old sf is over-rated, and people still like it from nostalgia. Even ground-breaking novels like Neuromancer no longer read as well as they did.
15geneg
Many years ago I read Cities in Flight, Macroscope, and Stand on Zanzibar boom boom boom. I felt I had reached the mountain top and hoping Rendezvous with Rama would take me higher, read it too. I was so put of by Rama that I stopped reading SF.
A couple of years later I thought I would try again so I tried something by Robert Silverburg (I had read an Ace Double by him when I was fourteen, it was a loooooooong fart joke, great for a fourteen year old, not so hot for an adult). The Silverburg book was about a society where everyone was plugged into their own tailored virtual existence fueled by drugs and machines. That put me off so dreadfully that I dropped out of SF. Then I made a mistake, I read a book by someone who could write (Little Dorrit) and it was all over but the shouting.
A couple of years later I thought I would try again so I tried something by Robert Silverburg (I had read an Ace Double by him when I was fourteen, it was a loooooooong fart joke, great for a fourteen year old, not so hot for an adult). The Silverburg book was about a society where everyone was plugged into their own tailored virtual existence fueled by drugs and machines. That put me off so dreadfully that I dropped out of SF. Then I made a mistake, I read a book by someone who could write (Little Dorrit) and it was all over but the shouting.
17richardderus
>14 iansales: Mr. Sales, if I understand your point, you contend that the craft of writing has generally improved among SF authors in the recent past.
Assuming that restatement is correct, I'd have to agree with you. There are a lot more SF writers whose inventiveness and intelligence are backed up by far more craftsmanship and wit than there were when SF was perceived as a teen-male ghetto and no one would bother to test the stereotype to find out if it was flawed. The other irritating assumption made in the past was that teen males have no taste or critical faculties, therefore would buy and read anything marketed to them.
That last, sadly, is true; but certainly not solely of teen males.
Still and all, I agree with the contention that better writers (eg, Gwyneth Jones, Ian R. MacLeod, Jo Walton) are easier to find in-genre than at any time in the past.
I'm not so sure I'd dismiss what has come before from the quality-writing sweepstakes quite so...well, sweepingly...as I hear you doing in post 14.
Since I think Gibson is the nekkidest emperor possible, finding his writing trite and precious and undercooked, I think Neuromancer might be the issue I take with your statement. Stranger in a Strange Land would make your case; there's a classic that didn't age well. Then again, neither did Martin Chuzzlewit, despite the unmerited praises heaped upon the long-since-dust corpse of Charles Dickens.
Assuming that restatement is correct, I'd have to agree with you. There are a lot more SF writers whose inventiveness and intelligence are backed up by far more craftsmanship and wit than there were when SF was perceived as a teen-male ghetto and no one would bother to test the stereotype to find out if it was flawed. The other irritating assumption made in the past was that teen males have no taste or critical faculties, therefore would buy and read anything marketed to them.
That last, sadly, is true; but certainly not solely of teen males.
Still and all, I agree with the contention that better writers (eg, Gwyneth Jones, Ian R. MacLeod, Jo Walton) are easier to find in-genre than at any time in the past.
I'm not so sure I'd dismiss what has come before from the quality-writing sweepstakes quite so...well, sweepingly...as I hear you doing in post 14.
Since I think Gibson is the nekkidest emperor possible, finding his writing trite and precious and undercooked, I think Neuromancer might be the issue I take with your statement. Stranger in a Strange Land would make your case; there's a classic that didn't age well. Then again, neither did Martin Chuzzlewit, despite the unmerited praises heaped upon the long-since-dust corpse of Charles Dickens.
18bluetyson
Don't necessarily agree with Ian's thriller thing, either. Altered Carbon being nothing like Robert Ludlum, Tom Clancy, Dan Brown, Patrick Robinson at all.
If you like noir, try Altered Carbon would be a better comparison.
If you like noir, try Altered Carbon would be a better comparison.
19lucien
For noir, I was thinking Chasm City.
20rojse
#14
Certainly, a lot of the old stuff is over-rated, and should be considered in comparison to what has been written today, but I have found some absolute gems that are far more than fifteen years old.
And because I can anticipate what you are going to ask, here are some of my recommendations for different subjects, which consists of "older" books that are still worth reading, and have not been recommended already throughout this thread:
Religion - A Canticle for Leibowitz
Politics - The Dispossessed
Philosophy - Star Maker
Post-Apocalypse - I Am Legend
Military Fiction - Forever War
Some recommendations have already been given about several books that I would have mentioned, but I did not want to sound like a parrot.
And I won't even pretend that I have come close to reading even a majority of the most widely discussed SF classics, or even a single book by some of the most widely known SF authors.
Certainly, a lot of the old stuff is over-rated, and should be considered in comparison to what has been written today, but I have found some absolute gems that are far more than fifteen years old.
And because I can anticipate what you are going to ask, here are some of my recommendations for different subjects, which consists of "older" books that are still worth reading, and have not been recommended already throughout this thread:
Religion - A Canticle for Leibowitz
Politics - The Dispossessed
Philosophy - Star Maker
Post-Apocalypse - I Am Legend
Military Fiction - Forever War
Some recommendations have already been given about several books that I would have mentioned, but I did not want to sound like a parrot.
And I won't even pretend that I have come close to reading even a majority of the most widely discussed SF classics, or even a single book by some of the most widely known SF authors.
21richardderus
>20 rojse: I Am Legend is a worthy entry in the literature of post-apocalypse tale-making. I favor Earth Abides, written in 1949, and very sound even now. I understand that it leaves out the fascinating new possibilities of "what happens to the Internet in a post-apocalyptic world?" and imagine the fun of a modern-day kid trying to find someone else with a cell phone.
Oh oh, my inner mean old man is coming out....
Oh oh, my inner mean old man is coming out....
22rojse
I was trying to compile these recommendations together, but since everyone is recommending books for different reasons, and presenting some without the "if you enjoy _____, read _____" format it is quite difficult...
23jseger9000
#22- rojse,
Who needs a format?
I didn't, obviously. Why not just think of some sci-fi that you enjoyed and recommend it? A little bit of why you would recommend a book is nice, but not necessary.
I think the 'X is good for people who like Knitting' isn't too helpful personally. Too much back and forth with 'Instead of X, I would recommend Y or Z for Knitters.' Obviously not everyone feels the same way.
Whatever works, right?
Who needs a format?
I didn't, obviously. Why not just think of some sci-fi that you enjoyed and recommend it? A little bit of why you would recommend a book is nice, but not necessary.
I think the 'X is good for people who like Knitting' isn't too helpful personally. Too much back and forth with 'Instead of X, I would recommend Y or Z for Knitters.' Obviously not everyone feels the same way.
Whatever works, right?
24HoldenCarver
Small quibble. Noir refers more to films. Books of that kind would be described as 'hard-boiled detective fiction'. Or hard-boiled for short (Not to be confused with the John Woo film). In any case, Morgan in an excellent recommendation to fit that hole. Though I'd put Black Man above Altered Carbon.
Literary-wise, I haven't read Coelestis (though I've had a copy sitting on my desk this past week; it's next to me as I type, even) so I'd recommend Hyperion instead, personally. Though that comes with the caveat that *only* Hyperion should be read and not any of the inferior sequels.
Going off on a tangent: if you like science-fiction but don't read manga, try Planetes.
Literary-wise, I haven't read Coelestis (though I've had a copy sitting on my desk this past week; it's next to me as I type, even) so I'd recommend Hyperion instead, personally. Though that comes with the caveat that *only* Hyperion should be read and not any of the inferior sequels.
Going off on a tangent: if you like science-fiction but don't read manga, try Planetes.
25bobmcconnaughey
for hard boiled near future detective stories set in a beleaguered SF..Richard Paul Russo's Carlucci series - now all 3 are collected in one volume. For a sf-detective series w/ a lighter touch, Lynn Hightower's series including Alien Eyes andAlien Rites which feature a alien/human detective team.
I think it's ok to call Morgan etc. "noir" - as in so many fields the terms have buggered off from one genre to attach themselves to another.
I think it's ok to call Morgan etc. "noir" - as in so many fields the terms have buggered off from one genre to attach themselves to another.
26CliffBurns
I liked Russo's SHIP OF FOOLS too. Not hard-boiled/noir, just a fun SF novel.
And as for the "noir" label, I think it can be applied to fiction--I certainly appropriated it for my two occult-thriller-noir-mysteries and had not the slightest qualms doing so.
There's a wonderful book on film noir by Nicholas Christopher called SOMEWHERE IN THE NIGHT that was absolutely invaluable to me when I was researching those aforementioned books. I also highly recommend Christopher's novels VERONICA and A TRIP TO THE STARS--terrific offerings, very Auster-like, with a dab of magical realism thrown in. Here's his web site:
http://www.nicholaschristopher.com
And as for the "noir" label, I think it can be applied to fiction--I certainly appropriated it for my two occult-thriller-noir-mysteries and had not the slightest qualms doing so.
There's a wonderful book on film noir by Nicholas Christopher called SOMEWHERE IN THE NIGHT that was absolutely invaluable to me when I was researching those aforementioned books. I also highly recommend Christopher's novels VERONICA and A TRIP TO THE STARS--terrific offerings, very Auster-like, with a dab of magical realism thrown in. Here's his web site:
http://www.nicholaschristopher.com
27HoldenCarver
>25 bobmcconnaughey:
You, sir, are a sly one. I don't know whether to tut disapprovingly at your witticism or be amused by it. In any case, I relent. I may prefer hard-boiled myself, but I shall bite my tongue if others use noir. Indeed, it's possible Morgan has used the term himself. I think on this one I'm the crotchety old bugger. :)
I haven't read any of Russo's books. I shall have to keep an eye out for them.
While we're naming other sf-detective writers, I can't let Jon Courtenay Grimwood not be namechecked. Specifically, the Arabesk series, and 9tailfox. Strangely, the latter didn't seem to get great reviews, but I really liked it and JCG told me it was the book he had most fun writing (lest it sound like I'm acquainted with him, I should point out this was at a signing).
Edit: curses, I was right. A quick google on "richard morgan noir" and I find an interview in which Morgan says "I think, as far as Altered Carbon is concerned, “future noir” gets it about right." Consider my sword fallen upon.
You, sir, are a sly one. I don't know whether to tut disapprovingly at your witticism or be amused by it. In any case, I relent. I may prefer hard-boiled myself, but I shall bite my tongue if others use noir. Indeed, it's possible Morgan has used the term himself. I think on this one I'm the crotchety old bugger. :)
I haven't read any of Russo's books. I shall have to keep an eye out for them.
While we're naming other sf-detective writers, I can't let Jon Courtenay Grimwood not be namechecked. Specifically, the Arabesk series, and 9tailfox. Strangely, the latter didn't seem to get great reviews, but I really liked it and JCG told me it was the book he had most fun writing (lest it sound like I'm acquainted with him, I should point out this was at a signing).
Edit: curses, I was right. A quick google on "richard morgan noir" and I find an interview in which Morgan says "I think, as far as Altered Carbon is concerned, “future noir” gets it about right." Consider my sword fallen upon.
28CliffBurns
Spoken like a true gentleman.
Hats off to you...
Hats off to you...
30iansales
Yes, and as a result Gollancz decided to spend another £10,000 promoting Morgan. Which is one reason why he's doing as well as he is...
31CliffBurns
Nice that Gollancz is at least backing a writer, regardless of the circumstances. Most genre writers are lucky to get mentioned in book publisher's catalogues...
32rojse
#29
And the ratio of books that get optioned, versus books that are actually converted to movies are quite abysmal. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.
And the ratio of books that get optioned, versus books that are actually converted to movies are quite abysmal. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.
33CliffBurns
Based on personal experience, very true...
34sparksphotog
I'll have to second Nicholas Christopher, though I have only read Veronica and that was some time ago.
I don't know if Jonathan Carroll has been mentioned but I really enjoyed Land of Laughs and The Wooden Sea.
I also recently read Sharp Teeth by Toby Barlow. A very unique engaging book.
I don't know if Jonathan Carroll has been mentioned but I really enjoyed Land of Laughs and The Wooden Sea.
I also recently read Sharp Teeth by Toby Barlow. A very unique engaging book.
35CliffBurns
Funny, I just got a nice note from Mr. Christopher this morning. Fine fellow and you should seek out more of his work. It's ALL good.
LAND OF LAUGHS is a favorite in this house too, one of the finest debut novels I've ever read (along with Iain Banks' WASP FACTORY). Have you read any Paul Auster? If you like Carroll and Christopher, he might be right up your alley.
Oh, here's Mr. Christopher's web site, in case you're interested:
http://www.nicholaschristopher.com
LAND OF LAUGHS is a favorite in this house too, one of the finest debut novels I've ever read (along with Iain Banks' WASP FACTORY). Have you read any Paul Auster? If you like Carroll and Christopher, he might be right up your alley.
Oh, here's Mr. Christopher's web site, in case you're interested:
http://www.nicholaschristopher.com
36iansales
Nicholas Christopher doesn't appear to be published in the UK.
(Gah. Fuckwitted touchstones: Nicholas Christopher gives, of course, Christopher Nicholas.)
(Gah. Fuckwitted touchstones: Nicholas Christopher gives, of course, Christopher Nicholas.)
37CliffBurns
Ian: That's disappointing. Christopher also writes and edits poetry and precision of language is certainly apparent in all of his work. If you can lay your hands on a copy of VERONICA...if not, let me know and I'll grab you one over here.
His book on film noir is bloody amazing too.
His book on film noir is bloody amazing too.
38Carnophile
If you like really fucked-up weird shit that will blow your socks off, read Perdido Street Station. It's steampunk fantasy sci-fi with hypnotic monsters escaped from a lab and running amok. That's right, you heard me, monsters escaped from a lab and running amok. However, while it does a little of the homage thing, it's more more in the "Well, that was disturbing" genre. I actually didn't care for it - too disturbing - but I know there are people who love this kind of thing.
39kd9
I like China personally, but I could not finish Perdido Street Station or Iron Council. Instead I would suggest The Scar, much more accessible.
Having just reread Stranger in a Strange Land (horrible, horrible, babel) and Gateway (whiny, whiny, stupid), I really liked Neuromancer. Though if you want an updated computer networks/VR/evil rich novel try Daemon by Leinad Zeraus, not great literature, but terrific ideas and action.
Having just reread Stranger in a Strange Land (horrible, horrible, babel) and Gateway (whiny, whiny, stupid), I really liked Neuromancer. Though if you want an updated computer networks/VR/evil rich novel try Daemon by Leinad Zeraus, not great literature, but terrific ideas and action.
40iansales
Guess what I've decided to do this year for my reading challenge...
41andyl
Who on earth considers The Tar-aiym Krang or Radix classics - even minor classics? As for a Lensman book are you a glutton for punishment? I didn't even enjoy Lensman 25 years ago when I was a teenager.
42iansales
Ha. Well, I did write that the list was idiosyncratic... I remember the original four Flinx books with fondness, so I decided to reread one. And I've always liked Radix and felt it deserved a better reputation. And, since I'd elevated both those books to "minor classic" status*, I felt it only fair to include a couple of "real" classics I knew I wouldn't enjoy, like Second Stage Lensman...
* I did the same with Colin Kapp's Cageworld series too, among others. I live to be contrary :-).
* I did the same with Colin Kapp's Cageworld series too, among others. I live to be contrary :-).
43Carnophile
>40 iansales:
The title of your blog made me laugh. Do you spend a lot of time in the Pro & Con group?
Regarding Stranger in a Strange Land, even when I was a hard-core Heinlein fan I thought that book was over-rated. If you are going to undertake it, I suggest the original, uncut version. While it is significantly longer, it's also significantly better than the sliced-n-diced version.
The title of your blog made me laugh. Do you spend a lot of time in the Pro & Con group?
Regarding Stranger in a Strange Land, even when I was a hard-core Heinlein fan I thought that book was over-rated. If you are going to undertake it, I suggest the original, uncut version. While it is significantly longer, it's also significantly better than the sliced-n-diced version.
44Carnophile
>39 kd9:
If you know him personally but can't stand his books, how do you avoid some awkward conversations?
Meiville: "So, kd9, how'd you like Perdido Street Station?"
kd9: "Uh...it was...y'know, haven't gotten around to reading it yet. Whoa, look at the time! Gotta run!"
If you know him personally but can't stand his books, how do you avoid some awkward conversations?
Meiville: "So, kd9, how'd you like Perdido Street Station?"
kd9: "Uh...it was...y'know, haven't gotten around to reading it yet. Whoa, look at the time! Gotta run!"
45iansales
The title of your blog made me laugh. Do you spend a lot of time in the Pro & Con group?
It was actually a phrase I'd used quite a lot at work (I work as a DBA), and when I decided to start a blog a friend suggested it as the title.
It was actually a phrase I'd used quite a lot at work (I work as a DBA), and when I decided to start a blog a friend suggested it as the title.
46jseger9000
I joined the 75 book reading challenge this year. (I'm not expecting to quite make it.) I figure I'll read some of the old, thin sci-fi books that I've always meant to get to, but didn't.
I started with Logan's Run (not a good choice) and am planning on reading Berserker by Fred Saberhagen, Have Spacesuit, Will Travel by Robert Heinlein, Make Room! Make Room! by Harry Harrison and Damnation Alley (and maybe Nine Princes in Amber) by Roger Zelazny along with lots of other stuff.
I started with Logan's Run (not a good choice) and am planning on reading Berserker by Fred Saberhagen, Have Spacesuit, Will Travel by Robert Heinlein, Make Room! Make Room! by Harry Harrison and Damnation Alley (and maybe Nine Princes in Amber) by Roger Zelazny along with lots of other stuff.
47jseger9000
I joined the 75 book reading challenge this year. (I'm not expecting to quite make it.) I figure I'll read some of the old, thin sci-fi books that I've always meant to get to, but didn't.
I started with Logan's Run (not a good choice) and am planning on reading Berserker by Fred Saberhagen, Have Spacesuit, Will Travel by Robert Heinlein, Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life by Philip Jose Farmer, Make Room! Make Room! by Harry Harrison and Damnation Alley (and maybe Nine Princes in Amber) by Roger Zelazny along with lots of other stuff.
I started with Logan's Run (not a good choice) and am planning on reading Berserker by Fred Saberhagen, Have Spacesuit, Will Travel by Robert Heinlein, Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life by Philip Jose Farmer, Make Room! Make Room! by Harry Harrison and Damnation Alley (and maybe Nine Princes in Amber) by Roger Zelazny along with lots of other stuff.
48Carnophile
A much-overlooked classic in my opinion is Fritz Leiber's short novel/novella The Big Time.
Ian: What's a DBA?
Ian: What's a DBA?
50iansales
# 47 - if you're going to read "old, thin sci-fi books" at least pick good ones - John Brunner, Barrington Bayley, Jack Vance, Robert Silverberg, Brian Aldiss, Leigh Brackett, Thomas Disch...
51Arvoitus
I know my readings aren't exactly up to date but I'm reading House of Storm from Ian MacLeod, the sequel of The Light Ages and I warmly recommend them for somebody looking for a "different" Science Fiction.
52bobmcconnaughey
The Light Ages is a really superb sequence and MacLeod is one of my favorites on the basis of this series alone.
53jseger9000
#50 - Ah, I was just scanning my shelves, seeing what I had on hand.
I'd be happy to take some recommendations?
I'd be happy to take some recommendations?
54kd9
> 43 Ha, ha, ha. Actually we talk about London. His favorite place in the world and thinly disguised in all his books (yes, The Scar is London underwater). And with any author you can always talk about what's about to be published and how the book biz is tanking. Or how he thought up all the amazing creatures in Perdido Street Station.
>50 iansales: Mmm, they ARE good, but Brunner and Aldiss are not "thin".
>51 Arvoitus:, 52. Oh, yes. Ian MacLeod is a guaranteed good read.
> 53 You will do well with the earliest Alastair Reynolds, Revelation Space, Chasm City, etc. I also liked Century Rain. Or if you are looking for classics and haven't read Brunner and Aldiss, do.
>50 iansales: Mmm, they ARE good, but Brunner and Aldiss are not "thin".
>51 Arvoitus:, 52. Oh, yes. Ian MacLeod is a guaranteed good read.
> 53 You will do well with the earliest Alastair Reynolds, Revelation Space, Chasm City, etc. I also liked Century Rain. Or if you are looking for classics and haven't read Brunner and Aldiss, do.
55ChrisRiesbeck
Which Brunner are we talking about? There are a lot of "thin ones." I mean a *lot*. The thick ones (Stand on Zanzibar, Jagged Orbit, Sheep Look up, Shockwave Rider) are good but there's slimmer pickings in the thin set. Maybe The Whole Man ... others?
56bluetyson
Apart from being fantasy, I found The Light Ages to be extremely tedious. Especiall when compared to the Master Miller's Tale.
57andyl
#54
Plenty of thin Aldiss works as well.
For Brunner maybe More Things In Heaven maybe The Wrong End Of Time. Aldiss was more consistent in his output so you can't really go too far wrong. I would also add Bob Shaw to the mix. Under-rated in my opinion (especially in the US). His books were nearly all fast reads for me.
Plenty of thin Aldiss works as well.
For Brunner maybe More Things In Heaven maybe The Wrong End Of Time. Aldiss was more consistent in his output so you can't really go too far wrong. I would also add Bob Shaw to the mix. Under-rated in my opinion (especially in the US). His books were nearly all fast reads for me.
58iansales
I second Bob Shaw. Other authors worth trying include Richard Cowper, DG Compton, EC Tubb's Dumarest series, Jack Vance, Michael Coney, Keith Roberts, Colin Kapp...
59ChrisRiesbeck
If we're having seconds, count me in for Compton, Roberts, Shaw, and Coney. Vance of course (maybe not Vandals of the Void...) but he's reasonably well known still and probably doesn't need our help.
60bluetyson
Bob Shaw would be an interesting candidate for one of those collection/omnibuses or at least an ebook bundle like Baen does, I think.
62bluetyson
Not American enough I'd believe, but not that for their older works.
A. Bertram Chandler, James H. Schmitz, Cordwainer Smith, Van Vogt, Laumer, Hamilton, Anderson etc. aren't exactly David Weber now, are they?
A. Bertram Chandler, James H. Schmitz, Cordwainer Smith, Van Vogt, Laumer, Hamilton, Anderson etc. aren't exactly David Weber now, are they?
63andyl
I would say that A. Bertram Chandler is worth adding to your thin books list and I would also add James White's Sector General stuff (mentioned on another topic). Eric Frank Russell is another, you have to admire a book called The Space Willies (even though it was republished as Next Of Kin).
65bluetyson
Right. Flint's 'historical' projects, are rather different to the steady diet of the right military stuff in their new books.
Add Philip Jose Farmer to the above list, too.
Print versions of most of these, too barring Chandler and Hamilton - and Leigh Brackett, who, while conservative - Eric John Stark certainly isn't.
In the most recent Best New SF Dozois even said, paraphrased 'Baen performing a valuable service in bringing back out of print short work given that most trade publishers don't do collections.'
They've done a lot of 'em. Well worth a look.
I've only read a bit of Shaw, and have one unread on the shelf, so not sure what you'd put in such a theoretical animal, apart from I knew he did a fair few novels, a series, and quite a few short stories.
Some of those Baen collections do include short novels, in the novel sense, not in the novella sense, along with short stories.
I've never run into much Colin Kapp, though, and I'd like to give Brontomek a shot sometime, just from the title. :)
Add Philip Jose Farmer to the above list, too.
Print versions of most of these, too barring Chandler and Hamilton - and Leigh Brackett, who, while conservative - Eric John Stark certainly isn't.
In the most recent Best New SF Dozois even said, paraphrased 'Baen performing a valuable service in bringing back out of print short work given that most trade publishers don't do collections.'
They've done a lot of 'em. Well worth a look.
I've only read a bit of Shaw, and have one unread on the shelf, so not sure what you'd put in such a theoretical animal, apart from I knew he did a fair few novels, a series, and quite a few short stories.
Some of those Baen collections do include short novels, in the novel sense, not in the novella sense, along with short stories.
I've never run into much Colin Kapp, though, and I'd like to give Brontomek a shot sometime, just from the title. :)
66iansales
Kapp's Cageworld series is definitely worth reading. Manalone reads like a grim 1970s British novel, and is quite interesting. The Dark Mind is almost van Vogtian. And Patterns of Chaos has one of those great Golden Age premises - a man is targetted by an alien missile sent from a distant galaxy 80,000 years ago. Kapp manages to pull an almost-credible explanation out of the story.
Not read any Coney, although I have a couple of his books on the shelf. Compton, OTOH, writes the most miserable realist sf I've ever read - at least those of his I've read qualify as such. They're beautifully written, though. Here's a review I wrote of Chronocules.
Not read any Coney, although I have a couple of his books on the shelf. Compton, OTOH, writes the most miserable realist sf I've ever read - at least those of his I've read qualify as such. They're beautifully written, though. Here's a review I wrote of Chronocules.
67bluetyson
Thanks, will see what I can find.
There's actually a bunch of Coney stories online :-
438 : Michael Coney : A Chimp of Few Words - Michael Coney
439 : Michael Coney : Crossing Pendhu Bridge - Michael Coney
440 : Michael Coney : Flower of Goronwy - Michael Coney
441 : Michael Coney : Lady Flamingo and the Shapecast Jennies - Michael Coney
442 : Michael Coney : The Care and Killing of Your Doozle - Michael Coney
443 : Michael Coney : The Porcupine - Michael Coney
444 : Michael Coney : The True Worth of Ruth Villiers - Michael Coney
haven't read them yet, but have read a few others and the novel Cat Karina.
There's actually a bunch of Coney stories online :-
438 : Michael Coney : A Chimp of Few Words - Michael Coney
439 : Michael Coney : Crossing Pendhu Bridge - Michael Coney
440 : Michael Coney : Flower of Goronwy - Michael Coney
441 : Michael Coney : Lady Flamingo and the Shapecast Jennies - Michael Coney
442 : Michael Coney : The Care and Killing of Your Doozle - Michael Coney
443 : Michael Coney : The Porcupine - Michael Coney
444 : Michael Coney : The True Worth of Ruth Villiers - Michael Coney
haven't read them yet, but have read a few others and the novel Cat Karina.
68bluetyson
Compton's completely new to me. Can't say that the 'most miserable realist sf ever' is a good selling point though. :) Being part of the 'short' list is, though. Have to keep an eye out in shops.
69andyl
Oh you must read some Coney. Pallahaxi Tide or Hello Summer, Goodbye or Rax is a delightful coming of age story, a minor classic. His early stuff often features planets with a society which seems to be a transplanted Cornish/Devon seaside town. Brontomek! is good but the title (and cover) lead you to expect something different to what it actually is. I also liked Cat Karina a fair bit.
Compton is a very good writer and not all of them are as grim (in tone) as "Hot Wireless Sets, Aspirin Tablets, The Sandpaper Sides Of Used Matchboxes, And Something That Might Have Been Castor Oil" (the title under which I own Chronicules / Chronocules).
Compton is a very good writer and not all of them are as grim (in tone) as "Hot Wireless Sets, Aspirin Tablets, The Sandpaper Sides Of Used Matchboxes, And Something That Might Have Been Castor Oil" (the title under which I own Chronicules / Chronocules).
70andyl
There is also the sequel to Hello Summer, Goodbye which is called I Remember Pallahaxi which is available on his website.
As for D.G. Compton you have The Continuous Katherine Mortenhoe which is a pretty good read. Ragnarok was written with John Gribbin and has a bit more action and is a little more upbeat than his usual fare if I remember it correctly.
As for D.G. Compton you have The Continuous Katherine Mortenhoe which is a pretty good read. Ragnarok was written with John Gribbin and has a bit more action and is a little more upbeat than his usual fare if I remember it correctly.
71bluetyson
Fair chance Ian would like Coney, I think.
If you want a short novel that is the absolute opposite of miserable realist SF (free online, too, even better The Demon Breed - James H. Schmitz) that I really like, and fits in the 'thin, older' category then The Demon Breed is a good one.
If you want a short novel that is the absolute opposite of miserable realist SF (free online, too, even better The Demon Breed - James H. Schmitz) that I really like, and fits in the 'thin, older' category then The Demon Breed is a good one.
72iansales
# 70 The two Coneys are also available from PS.
# 71 I've seen schmitz's The Witches of Karres mentioned all over the place as a classic. I'll have to see idf I can get hold of a copy.
# 71 I've seen schmitz's The Witches of Karres mentioned all over the place as a classic. I'll have to see idf I can get hold of a copy.
73bluetyson
The Witches of Karres is sort of a light comedy romance with psychic powers in space. Doubt you will end up calling this a classic. :)
I much prefer the Hub stuff. The Demon Breed, as mentioned before Agent of Vega, Telzey Amberdon, etc.
I much prefer the Hub stuff. The Demon Breed, as mentioned before Agent of Vega, Telzey Amberdon, etc.
75bluetyson
Yep, read one, The Winds Of Gath, thought it was reasonable enough. Likely get to some others sometime I think.
76iansales
They're all much of a muchness, and the "final" one, Dumarest: The Return, isn't very good. But they're good solid gritty 1970s space opera.
77andyl
#76
Except that isn't the last one any more Tubb has had Child of Earth (no touchstone) published last year (I think it was also written in the past year).
Homeworld Press are supposed to be reissuing the entire series as a set of omnibuses with 3-5 complete Dumarest novels per book.
Except that isn't the last one any more Tubb has had Child of Earth (no touchstone) published last year (I think it was also written in the past year).
Homeworld Press are supposed to be reissuing the entire series as a set of omnibuses with 3-5 complete Dumarest novels per book.
78iansales
I'd heard of rumours of another one. I'll have to see if I can hunt it down.
EDIT: found it, bought it. http://www.homeworldpress.com/index.htm
EDIT: found it, bought it. http://www.homeworldpress.com/index.htm
79bobmcconnaughey
i was rather enjoying the demon breed but the copy i was reading was so moldy that i couldn't finish.
81AsYouKnow_Bob
It's probably 40 years since I read it, but another vote here for The Witches of Karres.
And Langford puts in a good word for it, too:
http://www.ansible.co.uk/writing/shortrev.html#schmitz
And Langford puts in a good word for it, too:
http://www.ansible.co.uk/writing/shortrev.html#schmitz
82RobertDay
#57 et seq: let's hear it for BoSh! Funny that some feel he wasn't American enough, as many people felt his style and settiungs were a bit mid-Atlantic. He always seemed to me to delight in cramming his books full of inventive throwaway ideas about what the future would be like to live in. I've posted reviews of Who goes here? and The palace of eternity.
83andyl
#82
Absolutely I met him only the once and he was absolutely charming. He had a very dry wit which is clearly seen in his short stories.
Absolutely I met him only the once and he was absolutely charming. He had a very dry wit which is clearly seen in his short stories.
85iansales
I met him a couple of times, but I only recall trading pleasantries with him. I have a photo of him taken at some con somewhere. Some friends and I decided to do "Cyberpunk: The Mirrorshades Anthology", and went round asking the authors present to pose wearing a pair of mirrorshades. We then took a photo of them. Pretty much all of them were happy to do it. Probably just to get rid of us...
86RobertDay
If I can get a bit sentimental - Bob was the first pro author I ever met, the very first time I came into contact with fandom. He was the nicest person you could meet (which didn't mean he was in any way soft) and revelled in the company of fans. His delight at meeting anyone he'd met even only once or twice before was immense and genuine. His fan writing was legendary, and his UK Eastercon 'serious scientific talks' even more so. In his later years, his inventiveness flagged a little and since his death we've found that he had some serious personal demons to battle with. But everybody in fandom could call him a friend without the slightest hint of a dropped name.
The short story he is best known for is 'Light of other days', often anthologised. It centres on his typically BoSh invention, 'slow glass' - glass which slows down the speed of light transmission, so that a scene the glass is exposed to can take years to appear on the other side of the glass. He built a fix-up novel out of that story and a couple of others, Other days, other eyes, and you should seek it out. Clarke and Baxter dedicated their similarly-named novel to Bob because his idea was so striking.
His fannish writings have been collected in a number of small fan publications; they deserve at the very least collecting together into a more substantial format.
The short story he is best known for is 'Light of other days', often anthologised. It centres on his typically BoSh invention, 'slow glass' - glass which slows down the speed of light transmission, so that a scene the glass is exposed to can take years to appear on the other side of the glass. He built a fix-up novel out of that story and a couple of others, Other days, other eyes, and you should seek it out. Clarke and Baxter dedicated their similarly-named novel to Bob because his idea was so striking.
His fannish writings have been collected in a number of small fan publications; they deserve at the very least collecting together into a more substantial format.
87iansales
I have a copy of A Load of Old BoSH.
88jseger9000
Hey, I was checking into The Witches of Karres and the current Baen edition has "Edited by Eric Flint" under the authors name. Anyone know what that's about? I got conflicting stores on what the editing was.
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