RANTING/COMPLAINING ABOUT MOOCHES: CHAPTER 19!!!

Just remember that a little ranting is good for the sole!!

It saves you from buying new shoes after stomping around in frustration & anger!

The book I ranted about in the last thread (the one I got reminded about only a few days after the sender mailed it) still isn't here, even though everything else she sent out at the same time has been received now. Another book supposedly sent 10 days before that one is missing as well. A book that's been on my wishlist forever got posted by a newbie and they have disappeared from BookMooch so I'll have to cancel. Another copy of it was posted recently but got snatched by someone else, so I'm still missing only one book in the middle of a series. Grrrr! I just seem to be having all the bad luck at once.

Argh **hugs** that's a lot of BM bad luck at once. Hopefully it's all over now and you will be inundated with wishlist emails. :-)

*sends the BM Good-Luck Fairy to Quaisior*

Thanks cricketgirl and Heather. :-D I did get two books in the mail today, including a Megan Whalen Turner book, so it's not all bad.

5: What book has been on your wishlist forevar? :)

Just a little me-whine: I have 38 books in my inventory right now. I hardly ever get down that low!! It wasn't all that long ago (five, six months?) That I had two huge boxes full of BM-inventory. Now it's one small box.

I want to build my inventory back up, and the frustrating thing is I know I *can*, cheaply, at the Saturday sales at the Hospice Thrift Store. Only I never have transporation. And sometimes paying cabfair just isn't worth it.

*hissyfits* I want more books in my inventory!

(oh, and let's just ignore the 200-odd TBR bookcase.... those books may go in inventory after I read them, but until then....)

Not so much or a rant, more self pitying whinge. I changed my e-mail address on my BM account on saturday night and ever since have been getting the dreaded "You can not use that function yet....." screen. Well I asume this is the reason I am not aware of any other problems. Naturally all of a sudden books off my wish list are popping up every hour.......

I think patience is a vitue that I need to work on - and I guess I'll have to go and do something constructive (like working my way through my TBR pile!)

I've been avoiding checking my email for over a month now for precisely that reason, goancrow. It makes me sad and frustrated to see all the lovely books that come up while I'm blocked out and communication-less....

I'm sorry to hear you experience was not so postive Pammab. I'm simply in a whingy mood tonight and would generally have been broswing BM and listing the books I had finally managed to talk myself into parting with at the weekend.

The reality for me is that I have not been waiting that long for a response especially when you factor in the 6-8 hour time difference between the UK and the US and the fact that there were some big site updates this weekend. I'm not ready to give up hope yet.

How do I get the address back when I realize I have accidentally marked a book as Sent when it has not been sent?

11: Just click the more details button on the top right corner of your pending page :)

Here's a weird one: I was emailed to ask if I would angel a book and now that the book has arrived, the moocher can't mooch because they have -8 points. I told them I'd hold it for a month.

Monday, I came home to a "I'm sorry you weren't at home, please pick up your package at the nearest PO" slip.

Today, I went to the PO, picked up a box. Then came home to another "I'm sorry you weren't at home, please pick up your package at the nearest PO" slip.

I have a feeling there is a trend here... It's a very good thing the PO isn't that far out of my way.

#6, it's The Gathering Storm by Kate Elliott. I have all of the other seven books in the series but that one and I've had no luck finding it at local used bookstores (it is available on PBS, but points are hard to come by for me on there now).

14: Mare I have had that happen to me too many times to think about.
Now, if I have to go to the P.O. to pick up a parcel I ask, and they take a really good look, to check if there are any more waiting there for me. Last time there were two others!! I bet I would have had to make two separate trips too. :)

I sympathise...

Lman, I'm sure it's happened to a lot of us. I'm just surprised because the people I live with all work shiftwork, and there is usually someone at home to answer the door. It's VERY odd for me to have to go pick up a package. So twice in one week is most unusual. Also, I mail out my pending this friday, so I will be at the post office three times this week.

Three times in one week? Wow.

Can I trade situations with you?

I know there's really not much I can do about it, so why stress unnecessarily, but UGH. It shouldn't be this hard to find a ride to the post office!! (a ride that doesn't cost $15 in cabfare, i mean)

Between the post office (NEED to get there by the end of the month!), shopping for Halloween candy, the thrift store for more books, there are so many places I need to get to soon and no freakin' transportation. *headdesks*

Well, for the first time, I'm considering hitting the abuse button. I requested a highly wishlisted book almost a month ago. The owner accepted within a day or two, then disappeared. She's been a member for a long time so I didn't worry. Still, three weeks went by and the book still hadn't been sent, so I check. She hasn't been on the site since accepting the request and there's no update on her bio saying that she's had an emergency or anything.
So three days ago I sent a reminder and still no reply. Then I look at her history, which was very good up until a couple of months ago. And I see that I'm the third person in three months that has tried to mooch this particular book. Both of the others ended up canceling and noting that she never replied to them. It seems like she stays off the site until getting the message that the book request has been canceled.
Think this merits looking into?

I got my very first zero feedback today, and it makes me feel terrible! The person said the last 50 pages of the book got liquid damage. I used a brand-new plastic bubble envelope, so I don't know how it would've gotten damaged...

I gave her back her point, but I hate the zero! Am I just being OCD about it?

>20 dkhiggin: If it makes you feel better, I don't even look at feedback anymore. I stopped bothering with it years ago.

#20: Relax. one zero is just that... one zero.

if someone really wants info, they can look at the feedback that person normally gives out & then they can decide who is "the problem"....

you gave the point back... give the stress back, too.

remember, also, that you can give feedback... if he/she/it doesn't change the feedback, you can mention that you returned the point to make them 'happy'

>19 mstrust: I think last year it took me about two and a bit months to get a book from her, but when she did send it, it arrived pretty much in perfect shape, plus she was very apologetic about the delay. If it's a book you really really want, maybe wait it out a week and then send a personal email?

She just seems kind of absentminded.

*takes deep breath*

Thanks, y'all! I feel better already!

>23 chelonianmobile: Thanks, Gabrielle, it's nice to know that someone else has experience with her.
It's just odd that she accepts, runs off, then re-appears once someone has given up on her.

#20 The same thing happened to me about a year ago. I mailed a never-read book in brand new condition first class to someone, who then gave me a zero. When I questioned whether there was a problem I needed to resolve she said no problem, the book was fine. She also said that she didn't really understand the feedback system and didn't care much about feedback as long as she got the book. Grrrr. I left a note in the feedback explaining what happened, and I must say that it really hasn't affected my mooch requests at all. I think people know that if you've given lots of books with good feedback and have one zero that you are a good risk, and anyone who has been on the site for long knows that we all deal with the occasional problem moocher.

Okay, here's a query for you all.

A book I gave away has just been marked as received. The book owner gave me feedback of '+1 Wish it had a cover!' which I am reasonably sure is an erroneous comment. The moocher marked as received another book at the same time as she marked mine, and the condition notes of the other book state that it was missing a cover. (And barring any damage in transit, my book had a cover.)

I think the moocher is aware of the error as well. I received email notification informing me that the transaction feedback had been changed to just '+1', with no comment, but that change isn't reflected in the transaction page or in either of our histories. But since I'm getting a positive feedback score regardless, I'm not entirely sure I should quibble with how the comment currently reflects.

What do you guys think?

#27: just ask an "I'm curious... " question.

"I'm curious, was the book damaged enroute to you? Your comment says that the book doesn't have a cover? Is that about my book or a mix-up with another book you received? It isn't a problem for me & I'm not upset, but I'm curious about what could have happened to it."

#27,

She may not know you have to type a period or *something* to delete a comment once posted.

>28 skittles:: skittles

Normally, that would be the first thing I'd do but for the fact that I got that feedback changed notification. I'm wondering if there's a caching delay and the transaction page will show the with the new feedback later? Maybe I should just wait a day or two first?

The moocher is new, and I'd hate to pester her with an 'you know, you made a mistake' email so early in her mooching game, particularly when she might already be aware and have taken steps to fix it. I like being extra nice to newbies to help keep their attitudes to BM bright and shiny.

>29 iwillrejoice:: iwillrejoice

Oh, that might be it! I never leave that comment field blank, so I didn't realized there were any tricks to deleting a comment.

OK...I am really irritated. As most of you know, I am in love with all things Doctor Who and Torchwood. Needless to say, living in the bible belt of the US is not conducive to finding DW or TW books. So, imagine my delight and surprise when I see that a UK moocher posts 4 TW books and agrees to send them to me!

My mailman rang my doorbell today. He NEVER rings my doorbell. When I opened the door, I see why. There is a mangled mass of books sitting on my rainy doorstep. They have been nicely placed in a plastic bag by the USPS with the remnants of the original brown paper packaging with my address (There was only 3 pieces of packing tape on it, all on the back of the package). 2 of the 4 books have moderate water damage as well as the Heroes graphic Novel which is very very wet.

I haven't marked them received yet because I am so upset about it. I am afraid I might go all -1 on her. (She is a fairly new moocher)

People...IF YOUR BOOKS ARE CROSSING AN OCEAN, USE SOME PLASTIC PLEEEEEEEAAASE!

* End Rant

>27 MyriadBooks:

iwillrejoice is right. If you leave the comments field blank, it places whatever your last comment was in the field. In computer terms, the buffer has not been cleared, and the same string is output again. I noticed this behavior when I first joined a couple of years ago, so I always type something in the comments field.

31: Why not email her first and see how she responds?

I know my response as a sender would be "oh no!" and immediate return of points.

As a new member, also keep in mind that she may not have points to spare right now.

33> I did email her and am waiting for her response before giving any kind of feedback. As a new moocher (and one with especially good books) I am giving her the opportunity to learn that plastic on books = happy moochers. I am not really looking for any points back since I have plenty. I am just frustrated that it could not have been a different package that was damaged instead of a DW/TW filled one.

34> I got a very quick and apologetic email from the sender. Then she said the books were free so I had to email her back and explain why they weren't free. I had also smooched her an extra point apiece for the Torchwood books and she smooched me a point back so I am fine with the whole thing now. Another newbie (nicely) educated and me with 3 new (albeit) damp Torchwood books.

Argh - it's my OWN fault, but you know, it also kind of isn't:

I mooched what should have been moderately wishlisted paperback of the Grossman translation of Don Quixote. What I got was an old ex-library hardcover of a book called "Don Quixote, U.S.A." by Richard Powell which I didn't even realize was something completely different until I looked at the text.

It's my own fault because there were no condition notes. But, see, for this type of book I'm fine with some usage of the book because I expect most of them come from people getting rid of their college books - but I would have thought that some part of it might have matched the listing, such as, title, author, or binding.

And it's my own fault because I didn't check her feedback, which has tons of 0s and -1s for exactly this kind of thing.

But you know, if you've already got 20 or 30 people telling you to PLEASE list by isbn or TRY to see that the book matches the listing, and you don't, well, ARGH, isn't that your fault then?

Not sure what feedback to leave. Definitely will mention how the book bears only slight relation to the actual listing, but 0? I've never left a 0 that wasn't a cancel.

She did send it relatively quickly by 2-day Fed Ex, but still, it's not at all what was advertised.

I'm more annoyed with having to deal with the drama of leaving feedback than I am disappointed about the book.

>35 Belladonna1975:

About the whole "free" thing. You know, I really don't get how anyone who's actually SENT a book on Bookmooch doesn't realize that the points they just got cost them money. It boggles my mind! Like, did they not notice their receipt at the post office?

37> I know! I have 3 monster international boxes to send currently and I know that I will be leaving the post office about $75 - 100 lighter in the pocket. There is nothing "free" about that to me.

Free Books. yeah.

I live in a small town.

Good library.
the "used bookstore" has fewer bookcases than I have!! seriously. I get my books at the drugstore when I want a small paperback.

I've gotten books via BM & PBS for a number of friends & they always ask "how much do I owe you?" and I reply, "you don't." These are friends who also do stuff for me. I tell them that the books are free, or the postage is just a few dollars. For them, I will gladly get the books & tell them that they are free. If I have the points & they want the books, they get the books. There are a number of books on my wishlists that aren't for me, but for other people.

Recently, one of my friends asked me about a book her son wanted. An art history book. 20+ years old book. Son said it was hard to find & expensive on ebay. (his words) My friend asked me to check for it. There was a copy on PBS, but it said looseleaf edition via the ISBN. (on worldcat.org, it said hardcover). So, I requested the book & had it mailed directly to her because I was going to be out of town. I told her to email me when she got it.

When I got back to town, I called her about that book & some others I had sent to her for a volunteer project we work together on. All the books had arrived. The books for the project all had torn wrappers but the books were fine. But she was afraid to open the heavy one. (she is 80+) So, I met her the next day at the library. I checked the books she had opened. They were fine. She was so excited to open her son's book package. It was in one of those awful padded with paper-lint envelopes & of course it tore.... but the book came out & it was a hardcover in pristine condition with a perfect dustjacket! A very little yellowing from age, but it looked never used! I hadn't known but it was going to be her son's Christmas present!! My friend was so happy! She dusted off the envelope stuffing/lint & was so happy!!

Then she looked at me & said, "how much do I owe you?"

This woman gives so much to the community here. She volunteers at the schools, the project we work on together, her church, friends..... she doesn't stop moving...

This made her happy.

IMMD (it made my day)

A case like this is the only way I describe my books as being "free".

>39 skittles:

Wow, it's nice when you get some really beautiful books, isn't it!

I agree, when I get books for other people, I tell them it's free, too, because that's the spirit of it all. As Belladonna recently told me, I have a "crapload" of points, and while I have earned them I can't imagine being able to spend them all! (I suppose if I never sent any more books, maybe, or if I had lots of other people to get books for - as it is in our house our tastes are so similar that it's sometimes 1 book for 3 readers!) So I donate the points to the BM charities, I smooch newbies when they're friendly, I do ridiculous point deals - and I don't think of any of those things in terms of $ amounts.

It just bothers me when people use "free" as an excuse for a bad transaction. It isn't so much the book that I expect to get 'for free' it's the good-faith warranty on the social contract we entered into.

40> "It isn't so much the book that I expect to get 'for free' it's the good-faith warranty on the social contract we entered into."

Amen, Sister!

This is less rant than worrisome, I guess. A few weeks ago I received an ask first request for a book that I'd noted was too heavy for me to send outside of North America. I can't even get it to fit in a flat rate envelope! Much as I wanted to send it, I asked the person to get an angel, and offered up places to find one since they'd not used an angel before. I got an email that they'd found someone, so I emailed to say yay! and please let me know who the angel was so I could change the reservation. But I haven't heard back since from either the moocher or whoever it was they found to angel. I emailed again yesterday to find out where things currently stand, but no response yet. This is one case where I wish we could still reserve things indefinitely, because remembering to go in and extend the reservation isn't on the top of my brain's to-do list.

"free" books. Ugh. Big pet peeve there.

So. I got a book today that I mooched international because I didn't want to wait for someone domestic to list it. Meaning I spent 2 points. Which is fine, I really don't mind spending that extra point.... Until the book arrives in crappy condition where there were no condition notes. THEN I mind.

No condition notes, and the book is ex-library with stickers/cardholder. I honestly don't mind ex-libraries, but I'd like to KNOW beforehand, yunno? And the spine is coming apart (I've already got the book-friendly glue out). AND it's freakin' COVERED with dust. Like, globs of dust/lint/whatever hanging off the pages.

I gave a 0 instead of -1, because I am happy to get the book, but I made sure to note everything wrong and the fact that there were no condition notes.

I need help with my wording of an email. I requested a book on Sept. 23, which was accepted with a mailing date of "in a few days". I reminded them on the 13th, and received notice that the book had been sent on the 15th. However, along with the "sent" notice, she mentioned that she'd try to get the book in the mail when she had a chance. I waited, then asked her if she'd mailed the book and got the reply that she'd try to get around to it, maybe next Wednesday.

A delay is certainly acceptable, when the owner communicates with the moocher and both agree. I feel like I'm stuck. I can't cancel now, and she doesn't even have to send the book. She's got her point. I'm replying to her email and have come up with:

I am fine with delays, as long as they are communicated. What is upsetting me here is that you marked sent long before you planned to mail the book out. I'm stuck, unable to cancel or get my point back even if you decide not to bother to mail the book out. BookMooch depends greatly on the honesty of its members and I feel that you were less than truthful when you marked the book as sent long before you plan to mail the book out. It's a clever way to get points for yourself, but disappointing for those who mooch from you.

That's too harsh, isn't it? I'm a wee bit angry about how she's scamming the system--she'll keep her point if I report it lost--so I thought a few of you who are uninvolved could tell me if I'm being mean.

I think its a clear, professional email. I would add another paragraph about how to use the delay button and how communcation really helps with mooches. I wouldn't hesitate to tell her exactly how disapointing and frustrating waiting without a reply can be, and how communcation can avoid that. One of my old co-workers always says rose-thorn-rose, (good, bad, good) when giving feedback. In this case, I would end with a thank-you for sending the book, and perhaps asking for a tracking number.

Thank you, Mare. I added a paragraph about the delay button and sent it. That's the first time where I've run into someone who's clear and honest about gaming the system. I guess I should admire her nerve.

Question regarding "accepting (sending soon)" and "delaying sending"

What time frame do you consider a "sending soon" and "delayed sending"??

tomorrow?
a few days?
a week?
two weeks?
a month?
two months or more?

where do YOU draw the line?

(yes, I have my standard, but I want to know what others think. yes, this is because of a response I got on a book, but I want to know what others think because what I demand of myself is not what others would expect or demand of themselves)

ARGH. Up until now, I only had three books receiving lost, and now I'm about to double my count. I recently marked a book lost because it had been two months since it was marked sent. In a few days, I'm marking another one, because we're into week seven (I half suspect it was not actually sent, to be honest), and then there's another from an established moocher that's in week five already and everything sent around the same time as my book has shown up already.

It's not like the books are life and death, and one of them actually had another copy pop up, but it's still very vexing.

>47 skittles: If it's going to be more than two weeks, I usually delay. Partly just to get the bright red off of my home page. :)

I usually don't list unless I know I can make a post office trip within a week. Then I mark the acceptance as "I will send within a few days" and tell them exactly when it will be in the note.

I'm always surprised when someone marks it delayed because it might be 4 or 5 days, and then is apologetic about it. I guess I don't expect it marked delay unless it's going to be more than two weeks or so.

48, Commiserations, I have the same problem. One book was supposedly mailed over a month ago, but I have a feeling it wasn't sent. The next one is the book I ranted about before that the sender reminded me about 10 days after sending. It's still not here and it's been almost a month. All but two of the books she sent at the same time have been received, so I'm not sure what's up with my book and the other one. The third book was marked sent but none of the books she mailed have been received, she's disappeared from BookMooch, and someone vacationed her account, so it's not looking good. I also have a request that I'm going to end up cancelling soon because the book owner hasn't been on the site in almost a month and never accepted my mooch. Grrr.

48: I currently am waiting on two books from the same user. They were apparently sent at the begining of Sept, when she marked a LOT of books sent at once. She now has 15 books marked lost, and hasn't been on the site in 26 days. I know it can take a while for books to get here from Cali, but this is rather suspicious to me. And because it is an international mooch, I cannot mark the books lost until Jan.

I have another one that I most likely will be marking lost in Jan. Different user, I received two other books from her, but she packaged the third book separatly and it has yet to arrive. She's been in contact with me, so it's great, but rather annoying that the book is missing.

> 47, I would draw the line around 2 weeks. I think if it's longer than that it should be delayed.

I think I tend to draw the line at anything longer than a week I'd delay. Two weeks sounds okay too. The most important thing is to be honest, and if further delays are required, to communicate as such with the moocher so that they know.

47> I send stuff in batches, so what I usually put is that I'll send in a month, then put 'within 2-3 weeks' in the comments. I feel that's marginal - this is a recent change - but better than what I was doing, which was saying I'd send in a week or two and in fact sending in 4-6 weeks. I haven't tried marking it as a delayed send, though I've thought about it.

And yes, I've gotten the delay and apology and the book is sent within days - seems very odd to me. But that's the way some people think, apparently, that a book needs to go out immediately upon request. It's nice, just not the way I ever thought of it.

Re: #47

This came up because when I mooched a book this weekend, I got the acceptance today with the message that they will send it in two weeks.

I posted some books this weekend with the delay & apology that I couldn't mail them until the weekend or Monday. I felt bad posting them a week before I could mail them, but I wanted to get them ready, etc.

Also, I'm posting slowly because I got into a bind recently & had to delay some books. I felt awful about it, changed the way I post my books & set some strong limits on myself!!

and, yes, part of this irritation is with the frustration that I went through & with some other books that weren't sent to me when the person said they sent them. (sound familiar??)

My view is that accepting is saying you send within the week & delaying means that you will mail it after the week or more.

This does not mean that things don't happen to delay you when you don't expect it.... stuff happens... life happens... catastrophes happen.. 'fertilizer' happens.... but let that be the exception rather than the rule.

So, when my book was 'accepted' today, but the message said they would mail "in two weeks", I wanted to scream, "HEY!! That's a delayed send, not a soon to send!!"

maybe I'm just grumpy today.

I hardly ever hit "accept" anymore, because of budgeting issues. When I hit "delay" it's usually delayed for 2-3 weeks, depending on how long it's been since my last shipment. Right now I just shipped 10 huge packages, so my next shipment can't be until mid-to-late November.

Despite my concern and over-anxiousness about always having to delay mooches, most people are understanding and patient. Communication is key!

I post books every two weeks. I only use the delay button if I have to delay past the two week date. I also have the next ship date on my status, so any moochers know when to expect me to send books out. Depending on the budget situation, I can often get books out sooner, but I can never guarentee anything with that.

To me, I guess, delaying is anything past two weeks. But tbh, as long as the person communicates, it really dosn't matter when they send books, just that they do.

47: two weeks is my "delay" threshold.

re 47:

I have a two week threshold too - as in, if I will not be able to post the book within two weeks I will mark it delayed. I also tend to say one week for all my pending mooch-sends and if I manage to send before that; well, aren't I good? :)

I guess it depends how many pending and how far the book is being sent too. I know one moocher who regularly delays by one month all her mooches and I find this a tad irritating when mine is the only one, is an 'angel-mooch' and is going to take ages to arrive at the eventual destination. :(

But if I am getting a book from a long way away, I am happy to wait as long as needed (within reason - unless there is a standing agreement) to get my book; I happily wait months for many to float to me as is.

It doesn't really matter skittles, as long as there is good communication - I always send a note if it is longer than a week wait; I think that may be what has irked you - n'est ce pas?

I'm fine with an acceptance saying they'll mail in a month or a "delay" of a few days, the button they choose is unimportant. What is important is that they stick to the time they chose. If they say they'll mail it in a few days, they need to do so. I know that exceptions occur and I'm fine with an email letting me know it will be longer sent a few days after the book was supposed to be sent. I am very much not ok with people clicking "in a few days" and not sending for three weeks. Or, as in my latest aggravation, a book marked sent a few weeks ago that the moocher has not yet gotten around to mailing.

Just be clear and honest. People will be fine with whatever time senario you lay out if you communicate and don't make it a pity party for yourself.

I use the normal "accepting (sending soon)" by default, even if it will be 3-6 weeks before I will be able to go to the post office.

I use the "delayed sending" when I'm building up a box to send to a single user -- *cough*infiniteletters*cough* -- a process that can takes months, and if something unexpected happens on my planned shipping day and I'm unable to get the books out on a date I had indicated.

I'm generally very clear about when the next batch of books will be pending, that is, I'll use the comments feature to do give a date for when I'll ship (Saturday, January 1st; rather than 'I'll be sending the book soon!') And I think it's worked out well for me that I also put the date of my next shipping date in my status message to make sure it's very clear.

I have a rant/question. I sent three books to the UK back in July and they are still marked as pending. I'm pretty sure they arrived; the moocher has just disappeared from the site. I've sent her reminder emails and have heard nothing. So that's the rant. My question is, how and when can I "force-receive" the books (or can I)? I don't want to mark them lost because I don't think they are. I sent her a reminder through the system a month ago.

>63 atimco:: I think the 'force received' button pops up six-weeks after the reminder has been sent.

Don't resend the reminder, though, because it starts the six-weeks' clock over again.

Thanks Myriad.

Six weeks is domestic, though. I think for international it's actually the amount of time you have to wait to mark an international book lost, so that would be four months from the date of the last reminder.

#63 & 65: You may be able to contact abuse to have them force it rec'd.

#66 I've done this before on an international book where the recipient went awol (with -20 points!). I think you get the option to force receive when you're both 4 months from the date you sent it and 6 weeks from your last reminder. I definitely didn't have to wait 4 months from my reminder.

#63 So if you're past the 4 month point (or is it 3 months?), you should be able to force receive the books in a couple of weeks. I think a separate button appears on the pending page.

Thanks everyone!

I'm not sure this is a rant exactly, but I didn't want to start a new thread. I'm new to BookMooch- just joined this weekend. I listed 10 books as recommended-- and added a few more over the weekend. I sent 7 packages out yesterday containing a total of 8 books. Now that I see how much that costs (about $18) I feel like I know what I can do both logistically and financially-- mail up to 10 books every Monday. I feel like I'm being VERY deliberate in how I'm doing this in order to be a good moocher.

My concern is with the books I've requested--

One reply came as a delay-- marked 2 weeks-- and the person said they'd send in about 10 days. This is fine and I replied to the person saying so. That seems reasonable to me. Life happens and the person can't get to the post office this week.

One reply came as accepted-- with a note that there are 23 people in the shipping queue before me and that the book would be mailed in 4-6 weeks.

Doesn't the site advise you NOT to list books that you can't send right away? I'm trying to figure out the culture of the site. My plan was to list up to 10 books in my inventory at any point in time and when I was up to 10 mooches accepted, take my inventory down until the next week. Am I being WAY too anal retentive about this? Do I need to take a serious chill pill if BookMooch is going to be enjoyable for me? Because I can do that. I have a very nice doctor who writes lovely chill pill prescriptions for me whenever I need them (I'm only half kidding.)

Help a newbie out, friends!

>70 cms519:

In general you should send within a 'reasonable' amount of time, and all of us have a slightly different line where that is. I always take a person's mooch history into account when they give me delays and it's usually considered better to put any major delays in your status so people can choose to mooch from you at all if they're going to be waiting.

Personally, I remind pending mooches after about a week, and cancel if a second week goes by without response. If the mooch is accepted, and they haven't communicated any delay, then I will send a reminder email after about 2-3 weeks, unless I can see from their feedback and pending page that they are very active and haven't forgotten. Then I'll usually wait a month before reminding. As long as they keep in contact with me, I'm fine with waiting a long time.

But that's just it - communication is key.

I have currently backed myself up with packages, but I mailed out about 20 books this morning (only 17 + two truckfuls to go) but I note on my profile that I usually only ship about twice a month, and that's mostly because I send a lot of books internationally and have to weigh them and budget for them - things I don't have to do for domestic packages.

Always feel free to cancel if the person takes too long or doesn't communicate.

#70: I second what macsbrains said...

and if that 4-6 week delay isn't agreeable to you, then ask them politely if they can ship it sooner. If they can't, feel free to cancel, especially if there are other copies available.

Speaking for myself, depending on how much I want the book will determine if I'm willing to wait.... but I'm patient (most days), so a wait isn't a problem.

Sometimes I get books for others & then the wait can be a problem. I'm gathering books for a tutoring project that I'm working with & we need those books yesterday! Except that isn't reality. People have lives, so delays happen.

I'm understanding of delays if it is a book I really really want & I know the person or their situation...

If the sender's attitude is "I'll send it when I can & don't freak, 'cause it is a free book.".... that will get a nuclear response of a -524 & a strongly worded feedback.

I had to delay some books recently & I spazzed about it... mad at myself & mad at circumstances... but the people waiting for the books were really nice & still are really nice... they are always nice. I got the books out & now have a new resolution to only post what I can afford to mail out.

But I'm different (and how!!) and how I send & mooch books isn't the same as everyone else. And I don't expect everyone to mooch & send the same way I do. (edited to add: Except that everyone should wrap books very carefully & use LOTS OF TAPE!!!!!!!!)

Patience. Tolerance. Acceptance. Tough Love.

>72 skittles:
Your note about the tape just cracked me up.

I'm just going to wait on both of the books I mentioned above. I have a TON of books at home to read and don't NEED the books right now. I'm just trying to get a sense of the culture-- what's okay, what's worth ranting about. If I know that sending things every few weeks is not out of the ordinary, I won't be concerned about this kind of thing.

I tend to be a "letter of the law" kind of girl. I'm uptight about rules and I know it. I can handle a more laid back approach if I know that's what I should expect.

Thanks for the feedback, folks.

Another packaging rant (That is two in a week for me). Today, I got a book in the mail that was packaged with brown paper (which is fine cuz that is how I ship mine). What differed from my packaging though was that there was no inner protection (saran wrap/trash bag/ziplock) AND it was taped with little tiny strips of SCOTCH TAPE! It was open on a side and a half and I was lucky it was a dry day today.

WTH can't people invest in a roll of packing tape and a tube of saran wrap is beyond my comprehension.

I was really excited about the possibility of sending a book abroad (it was right at my weight threshold) to a country I'd not sent to before, and I'd been having a lovely exchange with the other person about whether they should mooch a second book (my answer: no, it's fine), and I was waiting for them to mooch and they still hadn't, so I went to check a few hours ago . . .

And the account had been closed. :(

I'm going to send an email later checking up, but I looked at the history and it's pretty clear admin closed the account in response to abuse reports. :( :(

74: Packing tape (the good kind!) is available at my local 99cent-store. I'm always amazed at people who use scotch tape.

75: That sucks! I had that happen once too. Not international, but I had a package all ready to send containing about 6-8 books, books I was very glad to finally be getting rid of... And they were cancelled 'cause admin closed the account. I guess it's good abusers/scammers are getting shut down, but it's still frustrating.

cms519: Welcome!! BMers tend to be very relaxed about delays/etc as long as there is communication. I often rant around here about the fact that I can't ship more then once a month 'cause of budgeting, and it annoys me because I want to be able to ship more often. But everyone is patient about those delays.

However, if you are one of those lucky people who can ship within a few days or a week, you'll definitely be loved around here! lol

74: Just came home to the exact same thing... only today, we've been getting snow and rain and ice pellets and other not so fun weather conditions so the book arrived wet and icky.

For all of you east of me, get ready for winter. It's coming...

77: I'm more then ready! After the 115-degree summer I WANT COLD!!! *ahem*

78: Heather19, where are you that you had a 115-degree summer? I'm in Houston and it's almost November and my air conditioner is STILL running way more than I'd like. I cannot WAIT for it to finally cool down!!!!

#74 - Bella, the day I received my books from you, I also received 2 others loose in a regular manila envelope with 4 damage stickers on it. Luckily, as with you, it was a dry day. I LOVED your package. ;-)

79: Yuma, Arizona. Sooooo hot here during the summer. I think the highest was 113, so I exaggerated by 2 degrees, but still!

Eek, 113 degrees? Wow. I'm in NYC, so sometimes it does get pretty hot, especially because it's often humid and in the city the sunlight just reflects everywhere and you can fry eggs on the pavement, but it doesn't usually get over 100 except in extreme cases.

Right now it's supposed to be storming, but it hasn't broken yet so it's 70 degrees out. We actually had the air conditioner on today because it was nastily humid and we usually keep the house at 66-68 degrees all year round. Can't wait for the rain to pass so the temp can go back to the high 50s outside nice and comfortably :)

Having lived three years in North Dakota, and seven years in Houston, I'll take the cold over the hot ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!

Amusingly, when I moved to ND, I was told "the first day it hits 40 degrees, you'll go outside in a t-shirt and love it." I didn't believe them.

They were right.

Message 77: Mareofthesea
Ya thanks for the weather but at least I get a snow day today!

Message 83: amysisson
Where in ND are you??I'm in New Rockford

I grew up in South Dakota, and I don't miss the snow one bit, but I would LOVE to have some of their cooler weather! When I go up there in the fall or spring, I'm always the one walking around without a jacket! I live in Alabama now, and the summers are so hot and humid -- ick! Plus, I'm a runner, so cool is always way better!

Message 84: Whoops, susiesharp, I'm sorry I was unclear the way I said that. I actually lived in Grand Forks, ND from 1991-1994. Then Oakland California (beautiful climate, too expensive), then upstate New York (most gorgeous autumns EVER!), and now Houston TX for the last seven years.

My husband and I met in grad school at University of North Dakota, and even though we were living in California in 1996, we went back to Grand Forks for our wedding because we'd met there and made many of our mutual friends there.

84:You get a snow day? Lucky! I stole the garage last night. This morning, the drifts were over my bumper of my truck. I would have been better off staying on the street and just plowing out that way.

I am SO very glad I moved back to the city this fall. So very glad.

Yes its still blizzarding here so I am closing the library since school is closed too!

.

12° farenheit this morning at 8am pdt in La Pine; We got 5 inches yesterday morning, Timberline Ski Area (famous opening scene in The Shining) may open this weekend (only the 5th time in its history for an October opening).

I got a book all ready to send today (within the US)... when I realized the moocher did not have a zip code!

I know I could look it up, but I don't want to! I sent them a note saying they needed to add their zip code.

Does anyone know if they will additionally need to cancel and re-request the book?

#91,

Address changes will show up on subsequent mooches.

But, why make them go thru all that (canceling & re-mooching)? Can't you just ask them their zip code & suggest they add it?

Just wondering.

If they send me their zip code in the email, I will just do that it, but it's annoying that someone can't figure out how to enter their address properly...

I just had a similar situation with a mooch from Italy. No postal code, & the way she had her address configured was odd, compared to other Italian mooches I have had. I emailed her & asked if the postal code I found was correct, & let her know she hadn't listed it in her address. She verified the address, so I've mailed her package - don't know if she ever fixed her address on BookMooch, tho.

Hey I'm new here and I joined bookmooch a week ago and I already blew it. I listed and sent too many books - well I have too many so I need to clear some out! I've sent ~55 books but only ordered 3 so far and I think they shut me down. I can't log in; I get a message to email tech support which I've done 3 times but so far no response. I was very apologetic, I just wanted to clear some space and decide what books I would really want to request and I promised to keep my ratio where they want it if they give me another chance. I had read the rules but I guess they didn't really sink in! Sigh.

Any ideas on what I can do? Will they completely block me forever? The only thing I might try is the message gives me the option of emailing the founder of BM - last resort - seems kind of rude to me! But I might lose my points for the books I sent and I was so looking forward to getting some foreign language books!

What is an 'angel'? Is that when there's a book you want from a foreign country but that person doesn't ship internationally so it gets sent to another person in that country first so you can get it from them? I've seen a couple I'd love to get but the person says they won't ship internationally.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

Why would you be banned for sending out more than you have mooched? That makes no sense. Am I wrong here? Mooching more than you send will get you into trouble, but sending more? hmmm... very strange.

that's what I thought too! The example they gave in their rules was the opposite of what I did so I wasn't worried about sending out too many books. It's only been a week so only a few have been received but there haven't been any problems, only positive feedback.

My inventory ~150 books has been deleted - when I checked for a few books that I know I had the only copy of it says there are 0 copies available. Not that I'm on an enforced vacation or inactive or whatever. And then I noticed you can see members by zip code so I checked and it seems that I don't exist on BM any more! Argh!

muyilusionada - Maybe there was a problem with activating your email account? It seems like some people have trouble with that.

They do sometimes shut down accounts for abusing the site, but you're doing the opposite of abusing the site! I'm sure it will get sorted out.

I think sometimes they temporarily hold an account that is new and has high activity out until some of the books get to their destination. Don't know if that is official, but I have seen this happen before to others in similar situations. The logic behind that is to prevent abuse where people list a lot and mooch with the points, but don't send as they should.

I would send a letter to the abuse team at Bookmooch and ask for clarification for why your account was put on hold. My initial reaction is the above, though. A temporary preventative measure.

ETA: Also, your 0 inventory should come back if this is the case - (it's just showing 0 so no one else mooches from you in the meantime.) But do contact the admins!

ETA2: On further consideration I think Rainbowgirl is right. If it's the email confirmation prompt many of us have had that happen at one point or another (I did, but I sent an email and it was cleared up in a few days). "On vacation" status is ok, people can still mark your books received when they get them. "On hold" means there is a temporary problem, but again, people can mark your books received normally.

Also, assuming your BM name is the same as here, you're listed as being on vacation. So whenever your account gets fixed, your books should reappear on your shelf. Your account has not been deleted :) But when accounts are on vacation, they are hidden from searches and such.

oh thanks but, unless it's easy to accidentally put yourself on vacation on BM, which I doubt, as far as I can tell they did it, not me. The message says something like I cannot return from vacation until an administrator reviews my account but that I can email tech support; I've done that but no response so far. I think it's been 3 days.

Does anyone have any experience with this type of thing and how long it may take?

Thanks for all the responses. I guess it's just a temporary measure to make sure I'm sending out decent books etc so I should just be patient.

Thanks again.

By the way, muyilusionada... Welcome to BookMooch!

(that is a most sincere welcome, too. I am sorry you are going through this hurry up and wait crap, but welcome, welcome, welcome!)

I think there are a few people here who were extremely active when they first joined and had their accounts vacationed until the books you've recently sent arrive. I know that you must be annoyed! But there are scammers who list a bunch of books, mark them sent, use the points and then disappear without actually sending any books. You just sent a little warning light off somewhere in the control tower. Give it a week--those books will arrive at their destinations and you will not lose any points. Use the time to get to know us here and build up a wishlist.

Welcome! And you might like to give LibraryThing a whirl while you're waiting too!

Hi! I got an email from them saying that once I receive 10-12 positive feedbacks on books I've sent they'll unblock my account. They suggested that I shouldn't list any more books for a few weeks because they estimate I'll have 100 orders within a week once I'm back online.

So everything's okay I just wish they had given me a heads up when they first did it. I had been having a few computer issues and I thought I might have a virus or, if not, I had done something against the rules somehow but they didn't say anything at all about my ratio. I guess I over-reacted!

I don't think you overreacted, I agree that they should have said something up front. You've already invested quite a bit of money into this, so it would be really upsetting to lose everything!

105: Glad you got it sorted out at least, hope it does not take long for your account to get sorted. It will give you some time to set yourself up here on librarything ;)

Be sure to link your BM account to your librarything when you are unblocked ;)

Yay! Glad they responded, muyilusionada! ;-)

I seriously fracking hate it when people set to "ask if not in my country" don't post in their profile their criteria for sending or not overseas.
Seriously, would it kill them to give a few pointers?

*is ranting because a nth book she wanted was declined from an nth somebody who never gave indications why or not they send overseas*

And I always ask that if they can't send to France, to let me find an angel. But basic courtesy from these people? Nooooo.

For books I really want, I think I'll just go directly to the angel thread from now on.
I'm through with asking, never having an answer or being declined without possibility of finding an angel, from someone who doesn't give any idea for which reasons they'll send or not.

Regarding the "lost books" messages in this thread, I've had a couple myself recently. One of them came up as a book on my wishlist and I mooched it without checking the sender's history. Big mistake, I guess - turns out she has 12 "lost" books in about the last 6 months. And quite a few cancellations from ticked-off people she never responded to, and a very large list of books to be sent out. She sent me a message saying the book had been sent but some 5 weeks later it hasn't arrived (it's a domestic mooch), nor have the books she supposedly mailed out the same day as mine (of course now I'm checking her out LOL). So...I'm thinking I'm probably not going to get this book. I actually think she did not send it at all. You'd think I'd have learned my lesson by now but sometimes I react without thinking.

Not sure if I should report this person to Abuse, what are your thoughts?? I have no proof she didn't send the book, just a lot of suspicions.

^109, I have not turned down any int'l requests, but your post made me realize that maybe I should put something in my profile stating that I generally send overseas, and quickly, but I have the "ask me first" activated just in case it's a super-large item, or I might need to delay a week or two to spread it out first.

#111: With extra large or heavy books, I will put that info in my condition notes (yes, some people really do use condition notes), but I have had that in my status notes (just not right now).

Putting a statement that you can't send it internationally, but will work with an angel if they want the book in the condition notes gives you more ammo when someone mooches without reading status or condition notes. You can refuse without feeling bad.

>110 CFiveSix:

With that many lost books in such a short period of time, she is either packaging them so horribly that they aren't reaching their destination, or truly not sending them.

Either way, it sounds as if she needs a "chat" with admin.

We have been told that the "abuse" button is for any time we have a concern with an account, not necessarily just abuse of the system.

If it were me, I'd be clicking it, and in the explanation, I'd just copy what you've already told us here.

>110 CFiveSix:

Yeah, I was in the same position recently, and it's not the first time! I have 8 receiving lost books, 6 from one person, and of those 8 I think only one was actually sent because of exactly the same reasons you describe. I agree that you need to contact abuse.

109: Spinifex

Yeah, that annoys me too, but it happens to me so often that now I just kinda shrug and go meh when it does.

I've been more irritated lately by people who ask me to send internationally (I'm set to 'Ask If' status), and when I reply with, 'I can't afford to send this to you directly, but I'd be happy to work with you on arranging an Angel to mooch it on your behalf. Are you familiar with the Angel Network?' etc, etc, I never hear from the requester again. And then the poor book in my inventory is stuck in limbo for days before someone else can mooch it.

>115 MyriadBooks: Can you manually remove the reservation by going to the book's page?

Manually removing the reserve usually works, even with ask first reserves.

>116 macsbrains:, 117: Yup, I can do that. It's just that generally in those cases, I decline the international mooch with a comment along the lines of, 'I'd be happy to keep this book reserved for you while you arrange for an Angel' and when I never hear back from them, I'm a quandary of how long I ought to sit on the book for the sake of politeness. It is possible the person is looking for an Angel and just hasn't told me. It isn't likely, but it's possible, and I'd feel terrible if I removed the reservation, someone else pounced on the book, and the intrn'l moocher came wailing, 'but you said you'd keep it reserved!' :(

So I tend to wait until the 7-days default reservation lapses, and then I go back and remove the old, outdated reservation information (which still hangs on to the inventoried item despite no longer keeping other people from mooching the book).

This is a longwinded way of saying that I'm irritated at having to guess at what the intn'l member wants to do.

#109 There is a suspicious part of me thinks that some people label themselves as “ask first” as a way of enabling problem-free international mooching. There have been numerous horror stories about “own country” moochers being berated when making international requests but being “ask first” sidesteps that possibility. I’ve had many email requests ignored and I admit to stalking wishlisted books when it looks like someone else’s reservation is about to expire. (Possibly, that might change if/when John adds a page for “ask first” requests.) Lately, however, I’ve started paying closer attention and looking more thoroughly at people’s mooching history. I’ve noticed -- and been ignored by -- a few moochers who list wishlisted books that have been reserved for several consecutive international moochers. Eventually, the book is mooched and shipped domestically and, because the international requestor has no access to feedback, the “ask first” member continues making international requests without the potential “own country” fallout and with a mooch history completely free of any rejections, cancellations or negative feedback. Technically, this may be completely within the rules of BookMooch; ethically, at least in my opinion, it’s quite a different matter.

Hm, I don't think I have had any problems with international mooching while being 'own country' myself (previously worldwide and ask first for a long time); in fact international requests have in general been very positive lately! I did come across an 'ask first' once where I asked about the book, and checking history saw that no books had been sent internationally at all, and of course my ask first request was given a no also. It did make me wonder why the moocher was ask first as the book was light...

I am really frustrated right now. I requested a book a week ago. the person seems to be new, and I could see that there is a long list of pending books/requests. At fist I thought he might be having troubles coping with all the requests, but there hasn't been any change for a week. My request is still hanging out there with no reply. And I have noticed that he seems to be on the site at least once a day. I would be perfectly happy to wait for the book, what frustrates me is the lack of response. I would consider a rejection as enourmous progress at this point. And what is worse, I saw today that someone cancelled a request for another book I would like from him. I am currently waiting for a reply on an international mooch for this, but should that not work out I really don't know if I should take the chance of requesting the book under the current circumstances.

Definitely fishy. He promised to send a bunch of books over 2 weeks ago, and he's only sent one. In the meantime he's mooching like crazy. It might be innocent, but I would contact Abuse.

What? Just as fishy as being a sock-puppet?

No, fishier.

I so rarely click on Abuse. Can I have a refresher on the etiquette?

(Background: I mooched a book from a member with a lot of red in the history. My request and the requests of many other people are being ignored. The giver hasn't 'given' a book since March, but is an active moocher: last received a book in July, last requested a book last week.)

I submitted one abuse notice last week. I know Abuse doesn't always get back to the people who complain, but I'm not seeing an indication that Admin is working with this account (although I am seeing that other disappointed moochers are canceling). No one (account owner or admin) is even logging-in to the account in recent days.

Is it proper to send a second abuse notice after a suitable wait of time? Maybe if the account owner comes back and starts mooching again still without sending books out?

#125: I would wait until a month has passed before contacting abuse again.

MarkWP (BM Mod) frequents the threads here. If he sees it, he will probably say something.... but not always since some stuff he does has to stay quiet.

Oh, I didn't realize that you had already reported the situation. I'm not an expert, but normally I would only file one report, assume that the (busy) admins had it, and wait for the situation to play out. But in this case there have been two bouts of mooching, so it might merit a second "I'm not nagging, but there is new information" report. What do others think?

#123: I'm sure that TPTB know who MW is... They just use an IP match & I'm doubtful that MW has proxied his/hers/its connection all these times.

LT & BM 'talk' & communicate about members & other stuff. If John or Mark wanted the IP for MW (or other info), then they would ask & get it. Take the IP & match it to BM records & voila!! The 'Lone walNut' loses the mask.

sockpuppet? more like a windsock on a calm day.

I'm a sockpuppet so you won't ridicule my BookMooch inventory of bodice-rippers, optimistically-highlighted get-rich-quick books, and erotic Star Trek fan fiction...

Seriously, I don't know what I've done to merit all this abuse, but whatever.

>126 skittles:: skittles : MarkWP (BM Mod) frequents the threads here.

I know; I wasn't trying to contact Mark specifically. :( I just wanted to get an idea of how appropriate it was to send a second request and, if yes, when. I never have sent a second one before.

>127 MapleWalnut:: MapleWalnut : ...so it might merit a second "I'm not nagging, but there is new information" report.

Oooh, that's good phrasing.

(Of course, what I really want to do is nag. Bad me.)

#129:

that's not what you said here:

http://www.librarything.com/topic/99611#2228957

I think LT needs a <humor> tag. #129 was humor. #116 (in your link) is true, and today's mysterious exchange reinforces the point.

Yes our veils are translucent, M. I was just trying to help someone, and somehow got attacked for it. If there is some past misstep still simmering, please let me know (a private LT message is fine too).

>132 MapleWalnut: : Yes our veils are translucent, M. I was just trying to help someone, and somehow got attacked for it. If there is some past misstep still simmering, please let me know (a private LT message is fine too).

I'm so sorry. I'm confused. I intended no insult to you in my message #130. I wasn't being sarcastic when I said I thought that phrasing was good. And my parenthetical aside had been intend to poke at myself for being impatient and wanting immediate obvious results from the Abuse team.

This thread disturbs me. It's the first time I've felt like this crowd isn't as welcoming as it seems. I don't like the biting, snarkiness, anger, and girl-fighting that I'm seeing. Perhaps it's because I don't know the whole story (or anything close to it), but... it's very off-putting to see people I have a lot of respect for crafting messages designed to make people feel rejected. It also leaves me feeling that because *I'm* not comfortable linking all of my online accounts to each other in an easily-trawlable way for the entire internet to see, that people here will be randomly nasty to me as well. Suggesting that people should link their accounts is one thing; being rude and threatening to them because they choose not to (and are honest about why, even if it is for reasons you disagree with) is very different. Why can't we just not engage?

And no, I'm not a sockpuppet.

I already regret jumping in here, but I can't help myself. MapleWalnut, is it possible that you've just misunderstood the term sockpuppet here? You've assigned it to yourself but it seems that what you really meant to say was that you have distinct usernames for your BM and LT accounts and that you choose, for privacy's sake, not to link the two. Saying this is a sockpuppet account indicates that you have two LT accounts and post here under both of them, and has a negative connotation as it makes people feel that they've been fooled or misled. It just seems that this is most likely a misunderstanding. Sorry for intruding.

I'm not a sockpuppet either. I don't link my BM & LT persona for privacy reasons, but there are a number of people here who know "who" I am.

I wanted to let MW realize that although his/her/its account is a sockpuppet is that there is a lot more transperency via IP addresses & other 'back office' hacks. I'm fairly certain that every post has the IP logged with it. So, when I login & post from my Tahiti hideaway, Tim knows it, but is too nice to broadcast it.

(& in the link I provided the reason given was because they might give opinions not agreeing with policy or BM regs or whatever)

I know that MarkWP (& possibly John) know who I am on BM. That info gives them a mailing address, not a street address. They may have other information about me. I think that they have too much to do to do anything with that.

There is very little privacy online anymore, but there is an understanding of security. My issue here is security, my security. My concern is of long standing & pre-Internet. I have very good reasons for my concerns & I take care, but not to the point of extreme paranoia. (just minor paranoia ;) )

So, MW, do not assume that your dual identities are not connected by BM & LT.

Pammab, I have my curmudgeonly days. Today seems to be one of them. I'm human.... really, I am.

skittles, you don't link your accounts either, nu?

iwillrejoice, no, but I don't consider myself a sockpuppet & I am fully aware that BM & LT probably communicate about members as needed.

My biggest 'problem' is that I know how much information can be obtained & how to obtain it.

I am aware of skittles' username on Bookmooch and she is a responsible member.

I too can vouch for skittles.

I don't want to stir anything up here, but I have noticed that some individuals on here have very different ways of expressing humor. We all have to remember that much of the way we communicate goes beyond the written word- voice (pitch, tone) and facial & body expressions play very important parts in how we interpret what someone is attempting to communicate. In a message board setting, voice, facial expressions and body language are not available, which increases the chance for misinterpretation and confusion. Key points of understanding are absent, which can cause situations like we see above. We all need to be aware of this.

And now I am going to step away from the podium, turn off the powerpoint and head back to my icky 12 hour workday.

>133 MyriadBooks:

I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to imply that at all. You did nothing wrong! About a month ago, a member asked for my BookMooch id, and I declined. I believe #123 was a reference to that. I should have ignored the jab, but I didn't, so I take my share of responsibility for today's fracas.

>135 Zora5:

Thanks for the clarification! You're right, I thought sockpuppet meant different IDs on LibraryThing and BookMooch. I only have one LibraryThing id, and one (different) BookMooch id. So I'm not a sockpuppet after all, phew.

>136 skittles:

I share your privacy concerns, and I appreciate your warnings about technical transparency. In choosing a separate LibraryThing id, I was actually following your example (and advice), so it stung a little when you piled on. Just like you I'm a model moocher, perfect feedback, although not yet with the huge numbers that many of you have achieved. I don't think I've ever criticized a BookMooch policy or regulation. I have, however, been pretty vocal about ways I think the BookMooch site could be improved. I always try to be constructive.

All this kerfuffle about Sockpuppets...and "skittles" privacy issues..

I think that Paranoia is endemic in any Online Social thang...i tried to approach "skittles" and she shut me down...I am as paranoid as the next gal....but....joining a site like Book Mooch or Paperback Swap...leaves one open to some disclosure..and Privacy Issues are an Individuald's concern...certainly not the business of this thread...every site has its own TERMS OF USE....pay attention!

I'll be shut down here, toot sweet
;-}

>142 jdthloue:

I think that people who safeguard their privacy on the internet are the smart ones.

I personally believe in moderation in almost all things, so I am moderately private, and moderately foolhardy with my information.

However, the web is a 'free-for-all" with people who are always on the lookout for ways to make use of others' information. Here in a book site, we may be slightly sheltered, but at the end of the day, I think that it is wise to be careful with your information.

In communication like this (where there are no visual clues), it is also easy to take offense when none is intended.

*quietly tiptoes around conversation*

Small, stupid rant centered entirely on my own thought-process. I have 30 points exactly on BM. I have over 200 TBR books sitting patiently on my bookshelves. Some of them, I figured out last week, have been sitting patiently since 2007. 2007! I immediately pushed those to the front of my TBR list.

...... So why, why oh WHY, am I getting all itchy to go on a mooching-spree? I've found a few new authors I like, and now I reaaallly want to mooch every single book they've written. No, BAD Heather!

Heh. Doing my best to read from the back of mount TBR first (based on their entry date into Librarything) but I keep getting distracted by shiny new books :P

Heather19, if you consider a 200 book TBR something to be embarrassed about, just browse around people's profiles and look at the unread tag. You'll feel better once you realize that you'd better get mooching in order to catch up!

I think we've all had a fuss and recovered. It's not like we haven't had larger "animated disagreements" in the past! And as Spinifex has said, it's all fine as long as no one has been compared to Hitler.

We should concentrate on sock monkeys. I love sock monkeys!

#147: I had to go to "Bed, Bath & Beyond Budget" yesterday & they had 'itteh bitteh' sockmonkeys that hung on a keychain!!! Super Cute!!!

... My grandma used to make sock-monkeys for all us grandkids. Memories!

Ooh sock monkeys, and even more sock critters: Stray Sock Sewing, Sock and Glove, and Stupid Sock Creatures. Sorry, I'm working on some frugal and recycled craft projects for a swap and sock animals were on my mind. :-D

Gah! I am so sick (physically and mentally, now) that I just realized that I sent the wrong book to Serbia. It is supposed to go to Oklahoma. ARGGHH!

I am going back to bed now.

Oh no! Go back to bed and have someone make some tea for you... feel better!!

i had my first book ever go lost :( It went to a longtime member with mostly good feedback, so I assume he really never got it.

I also never heard back from no zip code lady, which really irks me. I put her book on delay, if I don't hear back from her by the time I get back from vacation in a few weeks, I am going to reject it. I don't like members who refuse to communicate.

#153: when you put the book on delay (again) put that you need a zip code to mail it. This way the message should show on the pending page if she shows details.

I've been having problems with some of my emails going to my spam folder. Fortunately, I check my spam folder regularly, but most people don't.... or their email provider doesn't even put the message in the spam folder, they just disappear!!

>154 skittles: - I did remind her again that I needed her zip code when I put the book on delay.

#155: Then it looks as if she might not be getting a book!!

... I need to keep a better list of mooched books. With books for myself I entered them into my LT catalogue when I get them, so no problem remembering that I have said book. But with books that I mooch for other people... Realized yesterday that I'd mooched a book for my mom that I already mooched/recieved for her a month or so ago.

Create a separate Collection. "Presents" or "For others" or whatever you want to call it.

I've got one called 'Gifts and Passthroughs' - when privacy works, I'll private those books so my family/friends can't see that they're there. But in the meantime, I can keep track of them...

I can overlook most things on BM...we sure do see a lot of crazy things happen. But my biggest pet peeve is having a mooch rejected because someone listed the book on more than one site. I have no doubt this dead horse has been beat on numerous occasions, so forgive my little rant. It's been a frustrating day and this just kind of added to it.

If the book is highly WLed, as was the case for this particular book, why would you list it on multiple sites?? Just list it on the site where you need the points the most. Someone is going to jump on it, and someone is going to be frustrated to get "your request was rejected" email. I feel that this is a bad reason to reject a mooch, better to not put yourself in that position to begin with and just be courteous to your fellow moochers -- or to those on your other swap site(s).

Just my two cents, once again forgive the rant. This is a long standing pet peeve of mine and it has been one of those days....

#160: I understand your frustration & that one needs to be sent to abuse... in my opinion.

I'm on another book exchange site. If I know that it is a wishlisted book on both sites, I list it on only one site. For any book, the site will be chosen by #1: where do I need points? #2: do any of my friends have the book on their wishlists? #3: can I afford to send the book internationally? #4: Will my copy of the book be the only one listed on either site? (if yes, then I choose one site)

If the person has a history of using the other site excuse, then the mods will gently (or not gently) remind the person of the BM rules that state that the excuse of "traded on another site" is not acceptable here.

Yes, today is "one of those days"... just relax with a cup of cocoa or a cup of tea.... or a glass of wine... whatever works to relax you.

Just don't forget to click the abuse button.

#160 I made that mistake once. There were several copies in the system at PBS so I listed it on BM as well, assuming that it might be awhile before it was requested on either site. I hadn't realized the popularity of the book and was very surprised the next morning to find it requested on both sites. My bad; and believe me, I felt terrible. It was requested on PBS first so I sent it there. I apologized profusely to the BM member and offered to send any other book in my inventory free of charge. It's a mistake I haven't made twice. I'd say that if it seems like a first occurrence and the member was apologetic then I'd be inclined to assume they are learning from their mistake, but if there is a pattern of it happening then do indeed contact abuse.

#161 & #162

I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until I took your advice and looked at their feedback. Wow, this is clearly an ongoing problem and I thought it high time someone let them know it IS a problem. Possibly they did not know what they were doing is unacceptable practice at BM.

Dadena, I totally agree that mistakes happen. I have been guilty once or twice of not removing a non-wishlisted book from my inventory when it was requested on another site. I did feel really terrible and ended up sending a point their way to apologize. Between two sites, I've mailed nearly 800 books. Things happen.

This person, on the other hand, is not conscientiously maintaining their account and IMHO, not being very courteous to their fellow BMers.

Skittles, I have my big bowl of mac'n cheese here. It is very soothing at the end of a rough day! :)

Right, it is a mistake many have made once or twice, and then acted to be sure it does not happen again.

The best thing to do is to list newer book on first one site and then only on another after a week or two.

If anyone shows a pattern of rejections for this or other reasons, admins should be contacted.

There is a prominent message in red displayed upon every rejection which makes it very clear that rejections are taken seriously at Bookmooch.

mmmmMMMMmmac'n cheeessse!!!!!!

did you say mmmmMMMMmmark'n cheeessse!!!!!!

mmmmmMAC'N cheeessse!!!

but it makes a mark on your life... and your shirt if you are messy.

everything's better with cheese...

Yes, everything! And now cocoa is starting to sound good...mmmmm......ok, maybe not cocoa with cheese!

And thanks, Mark, consider admin notified. Hate to do it, but situations call for it on occasion.

I am here to rant again. I also had a mooch rejected due to "listed at another site and requested there first." It was not at a highly wishlisted book. In fact it is only wishlisted by 5 people on BM.

So anyway, I got the sorry but I can't send it to you email and then I got an email back about a week later saying that the PBS requester decided they didn't want it and did I still want it. I said yes, go ahead and post it on BM and reserve it for me and I will mooch it.

I then waited two days and heard nothing so I emailed her and asked if she put it back on BM because I didn't see it listed. Then, a day later she sent me a reply and all it says is "Will send"

That's it! That is all the email says. I wonder if I should email her back AGAIN for clarification, or if I should just cut my losses. I really would like the book though. Bleh.

PS. Stop taunting me with the cheese! This diet prohibits me from eating cheese. I think I am going to cry.

Don't cry, Bella! Put your arms around your babies and smile. ♥ ;-)

My babies are asleep but thinking about them makes me smile. It doesn't make me stop thinking about cheese though. :)

>170 Belladonna1975:

I don't have the patience for that kind of thing and would cut my losses, even if I really wanted the book. Even if she does list it, chances are pretty likely that you might have to hound her through every step of the process.

Which book, btw? *CURIOUS!*

168: One of my friends ex's made the mistake once of saying that everything was better with cheese... we spent the rest of the evening (week?) tormenting him with horrible cheese ideas (Jello, chewable multivitamins, liquid cheese drink... and many many more!). :P

173> A nice hardback copy of The Oxford Book of American Short Stories edited by Joyce Carol Oates. I wants it!!!

174> I like everything with cheese. I ate a doughnut with cheese on it once. It was actually quite good!

Apple pie and cheese is good to :)
Cheese-cherry flavoured koolaid not so much :P

I would also give someone the benefit of the doubt with rejections, I've made that mistake myself a fair number of times... but if their history shows a pattern, you should report it.

I always check both sites before posting to see the likelihood of being requested. Usually when I have had to reject books, it's because it was listed on both sites for months, got requested by one, and I got distracted and forgot to remove it from the other!

I only use BM so I can't be guilty of the "listed on too many sites" mooch-sin - but it is VERY FRUSTRATING when it happens to you!

On the one occasion when I had given a book to a friend and forgotten to take it out of inventory, and it got mooched, I ordered a second-hand copy from Amazon (yes I know, bad Amazon...) to be sent direct to the moocher instead, which I think is a pretty cordial way of dealing with it - they get their book, I get my point, and the £3-£4 it costs to replace the book is a good slap on the wrist to me not to forget again!

So I've been quite surprised when rejectors just say "don't have it any more" and don't make any effort to make up for it.

A book finally arrived from the person who marked sent and then let me know that she'd mail it when she had a chance. The thing that irritates me beyond belief is that I have had three email from this person, each giving a different excuse for their poor behavior with excuse #3 contradicting excuse #1. I'm waiting a few days to mark received so that I can be sure my feedback comments are purely factual.

#179 glad there was a happy ending to the debacle (i.e. the book arrived)!

Well, I have corresponded with the Serbia mistake. I smooched him my last 2 points and he is going to send to my moocher in OK. Phew! I will NOT be wrapping packages while sick again! Meanwhile I have 9 books going out today and am feeling better.

Glad your book arrived, RidgewayGirl! I have a similar situation going on with an angel mooch from September 17th. After I reminded her over 3 weeks ago, she signed on a week later and marked it sent and has not signed in since. But unlike yours, she did not respond to my email and now I can't cancel it or even mark it lost. She has other cancellations and her points are at -.3. Arrgh.

And then there is another angel mooch from September 25th who states on her profile that because of her odd schedule and difficulty getting to the PO she can't/won't say when the book will be sent. I hesitate to email or remind her because I don't want to piss her off and lose out on the mooch.

What to do, what to do...

I've reached the conclusion that even for books I really want, it isn't worth it to mooch from people whose accounts are seas of red or who have a long list of reasons why they can't send books in a timely manner.

Re-posting here too:

Awwwww! Thank you secret smoocher(s) for making me smile! I LOVE you guys! ♥♥♥ Mmmuaaaahhhhh!

I just got back from a very long day of grocery shopping and appointments and received a book in the mail and 3 smooches and... well, y'all are just the best! *sniff* ;-)

I left a -1 on the mooch where she marked sent with a note that she'd mail it eventually. I briefly mentioned the situation and left it at that. I got a "why are you being so mean to me?" email, with a repeated excuse that is a mix of #2 and #3. I've decided to just ignore it.

Why do people lie in emails? Do they think that no one will remember their previous statements? Or keep their emails until a transaction is completed? I feel like she is either so completely in her own world that she really believes each new story or so contemptuous of me that she just doesn't care. Will not be mooching from her again!

184: There is another option to the "what is she thinking" question, that unfortunately I've had to deal with a few times before. Some BM users simply don't see BM as a big deal. They don't see lack of communication or fudging the send date as a problem, because they don't care enough about the process as a whole. And because they don't "get" that BM is a serious deal for others, they feel like you are being mean and unfair when you give them correct feedback.

You might have a point. I'm not changing my feedback, though. I just wish people would be courteous. Like sending an email saying it will be x days before you can send the book, or not having angry rants in your status (rants go here) or just being truthful and issuing a simple apology when you make an error instead of coming up with a long series of excuses. When I've made a mistake or had something come up, a quick email apologizing and suggesting a solution have always been effective and when I've gotten a 'I'm sorry' from someone, it has always made me change my feedback happily.

Ok, I'm laying this to rest.

Not to continue your angst RidgewayGirl, but I think Heather is right in that, IMHO, many only think about the actual "free" used book (aarrrggghhh) when, in fact, it is like any social interaction; BookMooch is based heavily on trust, honesty and ultimately generosity and kindness regarding a much-loved medium - books!
Who likes to be lied to (blatantly); who likes to be considered so insignificant that there is no need to bother to acknowledge, let alone answer an email; why shouldn't rudeness upset you?

I, however, like you, leave an honest as possible feedback and then move on; there are too many lovely members to let the few (and in my experience it is only a few) affect my joy in this site. And then I hope it will prevent a repeat and perhaps help other great members.

So good for you!! Helping lay it to rest hopefully...

I think a lot of lying and deceit is going on at BM.

I once sent out 8 books in two parcels by registered mail. The addressee claimed to have only received 2 books and tried to mark the rest of them lost. I "forced-received" them, and never heard a word of complaint from him (I guess he just 'tried').

Although this has been discussed and disputed by others before, I am sure that a very large percentage of the books reported "lost" are books which people either did not send or receivers claim not to have received.

I prefer personal correspondance by snail mail, so I send and receive very many letters and parcels each year. The experience on BM of things going lost is not reflected in my other experience with the mail.

It seems most of these problems occur with members in countries which have high postal rates (perceived) and no cheaper alternatives (surface mail) such as US, Netherlands and Belgium.

Shipments which typically always arrive, are those with many (small) books; shipments which typically go lost are those with one or two big books.

It is nice to have good faith in people, but one should not be naive.

Another thing, which I could have posted on the "forced-received" thread: you won't believe how mean and stingy people get when they realize they lost their points, but end up without a book. I regularly get books back, which were not collected or whatever etc. People almost always try to mark them lost.

We all make mistakes, and so do I. I have sent people the wrong book or misdirected books. In those cases, I always make up by returning points or re-shipping without re-mooch.

I would say a good indicator of people's reliability is not just look at their record, but also look at their smooch / charity record. They are a very good indicator of how relaxed / generous people are.

I finally felt I had to contact abuse about the guy who kept ignoring his requested books. I waited a week after requesting the one book from him, and the send a reminder. I got an asnwer that he was out of the country but would send it Wednesday or Thurday. Well, both passed without any action. He still has dozens of requests haning in "Limbo" and doesn't seem to be bothered with actually sending requested books. (although a couple have apparently been sent and arrived.)

> 188: When you write: 'It seems most of these problems occur with members in countries which have high postal rates (perceived) and no cheaper alternatives (surface mail) such as US, Netherlands and Belgium', I hope you do believe what I answered you when you enquired earlier this week about a book you've sent to me? (Since there aren't many BM members in Belgium, you probably haven't had interactions with lots of my compatriots via BM.)

When you look at my history - which only goes back to july 2010, but I have quite some books sent out - you can see that - apart from some very recently sent books - all books but one I sent are received, and that there isn't one book that I mooched that is marked lost.

You have often posted you have had very specific issues with your system of sending packages the way you do from China Edwin,

So while there will always be a few people who are not truthful about 'lost' books, it is not so prevelant as you might think. It generally becomes verly clear if a given member develops a pattern of doing such things, and they are quickly reported if so.

>191 markwp:

I am not saying it happens that much, gladly no. I have mooched more than a thousand books and we're probably talking about a handful of cases.

I am just baffled by the straight-faced lies of some people. For example, it has happened once or twice where people said they had included books in a shipment where there was no physical space for any other books, while the shipment arrived intact and unopened / undamaged.

It has happened two or three times that people (from aforementioned 3 countries) promised to send books which I knew was going to cost them a lot of money. They waived my offer of extra points... but the books never arrived. Just makes you (me) think.

Twice parcels addressed to me were sent back to the US because I wasn't able to claim them, and those kind people sent them again (They did not want extra points but I insisted they took them.)

I have gradually become aware that my way of sending possible causes the problem of people unable to claim books: for security / privacy reasons people list incorrect names / addresses which would not pose a problem unless mail is registered, or people simply don't have time to pick up the parcel.

It is a tricky one: I spend $1.20 (US dollars) extra on each parcel to send it securely an amount which buys me breakfast every morning.

However, I think the advantage outweighs the disadvantage, and I warn people clearly about it in the condition notes (Prior to that there was a message about it on my profile).

I mainly use the forced-received on people who are unwilling to mark the book "received" for books which have been returned to me (following Admin's advice) and on people who have gone inactive and never report back on my reminders. This accounts for maybe 20 books to 12 - 15 people (I am just guessing) on a total of 670+ books sent out.

So, I can fully agree that it isn't much.

>190 AnneTanne:

I wasn't thinking of you at all, as my comments about Belgium and the Netherlands are about the excessively high rates for shipping out. I added "perceived" to refer to rates at USPost, because members in the US think there rates for international mail are very high whereas they are just about in the mid-range.

In fact, I have been very lucky to receive many shipments from various members in Belgium. I was only referring to 1 case.

In your case, things won't be clear either. I send 99% out by registered mail, but I am not sure what I did with your request. You asked for a very small publication: in that case the airmail rate is the same as the surface mail rate + registration fee. Additionally, I reckon that the risc for unregistered air mail is smaller that unregistered surface mail. In that case, I sometimes send air mail, believing people may need or prefer the book soon. I may have sent it to you by unregistered air mail.

In case the book went by air mail, you should already have received it, as air mail takes only 10 days. You should already have received the surface mail shipment, as it only takes 6 to 7 weeks to Belgium.

Last week I had a totally ordinary Mooch transaction. Book requested, mailed it out the next day, all totally normal and fine. Then I got another request this week and the address looked very familiar. Turns out it was the same person and this second book was definitely listed last week. Why couldn't they have mooched them both at the same time? I know it's not the end of the world, but it seems rude to me.

#194: I did the same recently. I requested a group of books & after talking with a friend about the books, I looked again at her/his inventory & found another book we needed. I requested & asked that they be added to the books. I got a reply that they had already been sent out, but he/she would send the single out, no problem.

Also, sometimes I hear about a book & then go searching for it. If there is more than one available, I will always request it from someone I've mooched from (or to) rather than someone I don't know (unless the previous mooch experience was less than optimum).

So, they may not have wanted or known about the book when they first mooched from you, but now want it.

Yes, it is frustrating, but your book finds a new home!!!

I got a "0" feedback yesterday. No note, no explaination. I had condition notes on the book. I don't particularly have the time to go and find out why. but it still bothers me. Why give 0 feedback if you don't take the time to explain why? What good does that do to your fellow moochers?

#196: I'd ask. If it was me, and I accidentally marked a feedback as +0, I'd want to know so I could change it.... and not everyone knows you can change it.... even BMer's who have been around a llooonnnngg time.

I'd reply back & ask if he/she/it did it accidentally. Especially if there is not a comment in the feedback.

Also, there are some members who think if everything is ok, then you are supposed to put +0 and that +1 is for above & beyond mooching..... so you should ask & possibly educate the moochee.

Good Luck!!

I'm just in a pissy mood, so I figured I'd come in here.

My paycheck was small again this time, and although I have roughly $60 left after paying the only bill that's due right now, none of that can go toward shipping. We still haven't figured out transportation, mom has a company-car now but can't drive at the moment (complicated complications).... So all freakin' $60 has to be saved for possibly-needed cabrides to work. Seems like such a waste. And I really wanted to get this next shipment out before Thanksgiving. I'd said mid-to-late November when delaying, so no worries there, I was just thinking I might get to mail them off sooner then expected... but nope.

#198 sorry to hear your financial troubles. I hope it looks up shortly! And I'm sure that moochers will be understanding with delays.

Maybe this is me, but I think it is pretty rude of someone who apparently isn't to diligent in sending out requested books, and who doesn't meet the dates for sending he promised to keep sending reminders for book HE apparently wants. I always thought you should behave the way you want people to behave toward you. Or am I too optimistic ?

Yeah, the whole "treat people as you want to be treated" thing. It's wonderful on paper, but doesn't always happen IRL. *rolls eyes*

My first serious complaint-- I received a very badly damaged package today. A hardcover book packaged only in a paper envelope-- no padding, no plastic inside in the paper envelope. Luckily, the book wasn't damaged. The post office put it in a plastic bag with a note that it was damaged in transit and the doormen in my building held it behind the desk for me. So frustrated by the shoddy packing though.

I haven't been on bookmooch long-- only three weeks-- so I wasn't sure about etiquette on feedback. I have the +1 because the shipping was really quick and (luckily) the book is not damaged but I did mention in the feedback that the package was damaged. One whole side of the envelope was torn wide open.

What feedback would you have given in this case?

202: While the book itself wasn't damaged, the user needs to know that they have to be more careful in the future. Usually I give the +1 but make the comment about better packaging. Depending on how they react (not everyone likes friendly advice) I may change it to 0 or even -1. Some of the others on this site have ran into similar situations. Its frustrating, and really there should be no excuse. We all have tons of envelopes flowing in and out of our mailboxes, many of them re-useable many times over.

202: I prettymuch do the same that #203 does. I put a +1 feedback as long as the book wasnt harmed, and put in my feedback line something about the package arriving damaged, but thank goodness the book survived the trip.

I just got one from overseas that amazingly survived it's journey in a thin brown paper package. The package was torn in several places and stamped "Arrived Damaged" but thankfully the book was fine.

I also generally leave +1, but I usually leave detailed comments about how the book was packaged and how it should have been packaged. About a third of the time, it's newbie members who have no idea and email me to say they appreciate the tips. Usually I don't hear back at all, I only get huffy comments once every blue moon.

THIS THREAD IS CLOSING!!!

A shiny new thread is awaiting us!!!

Click here for The NEW Thread!!

A big thank you to all who have helped to keep our tempers in check and our emails more diplomatic!!

THIS THREAD IS NOW CLOSED!!