Profile Memes Incorrect for Authors with Disambiguation Pages

In the Male or Female and Dead or Alive Memes all of the split/disambiguated authors are listed under Not Set (for Male or Female) or Unknown (for Dead or Alive) instead of picking up the data from the proper author sub-page.

Have you got a good example where the data differs?

I think I can find some dead/alives, but how about male/female?

Pat Barker?

http://www.librarything.com/author/barkerpat

It's not that the data differs, it's that it's picking it up from the disambiguation page which never has it set. For example, the first name on my Male or Female for Not Set is Richard Adams, http://www.librarything.com/author/adamsrichard, for which all the split authors are designated male.

ETA: So it needs to figure out that my Richard Adams is Richard Adams-1. And it probably should list it twice if I have two different Richard Adams.

Fixed, with note. See http://www.librarything.com/topic/108005#2476161

It's showing Richard Adams under both Male and Not Set in my memes.

This author, http://www.librarything.com/author/gardensbetterhomesan, is listed under Not Set in my Male or Female meme but it is set to n/a, and it's not even a disambiguated author.

Okay. That author is fixed.

I know what the problem is, and can fix more.

I'll work on a script. If anyone has another example, ping me.

I've got a lot like the example in message 7, where a non-disambiguated author is set but showing up as not set. E.g. http://www.librarything.com/author/hillaryedmund and http://www.librarything.com/author/hofstadterdouglas (In my cases, it's because I have a sub-author listed, and it's not picking it up from the main author page.)

I've got someone who's in not set and male, but who's not a disambiguated author:
http://www.librarything.com/author/montesquieucharlesde

ETA - thinking about it more, this might have to do with CK on an author page that's been combined in...?

ETA2 - or different language versions?

Another example, also a single (not split) author:
http://www.librarything.com/author/nietzschefriedrich

rsterling: What LT version(s) do you use?

# 10: Same here:
http://www.librarything.fr/author/tomatisalfreda
He is a single author, male in CK and not set in the memes.

Edit: I have the problem on .fr and on .com

For book entry, or in general?

.com as primary (and for adding books), but I also sometimes use .it, .fr., .de. I've also logged on to most of the other major language sites at some point, to edit CK.

ETA - I mentioned different language versions since those authors have CK entered on multiple languages, and I wondered if that might be confusing the meme.

I have 375 authors as not set male/female. All that I checked (the first 10) were set. Very few were multiple authors. I only use the English site.

ETA: I checked the first 3 dead/alive that were marked unknown. Two were set, one dead and one alive. Neither was a multiple author.

So, I think it's now fixed. I'll take a look at yours and see if I can see any problems.

Never mind. Almost fixed!

Working on it.

Much improved already. Now only 167 not set in Male or Female meme instead of 471 earlier today.

It seems to draw on the authorname assigned in the system though, instead of on the authorname I actually use myself (as it used to be). For example I have multiple "Anonymous" now, while I have removed every instance of that name from my catalogue.

(Not trying to be impatient, just hoping that little extra info may help).

Okay, should be truly fixed.

Still "Not set (167)"* in my catalogue - many of which are "Anonymous" while I don't use that author. So unless this is an intentional change: not quite fixed yet. Sorry.

* used to be c. 50 before the new author splitting.

So, the problem is that it's using the work author now. So, for example, it's counting the Epic of Gilgamesh as by "anonymous" (what LT members generally say) rather than "Sin-liqe-unninni" (what you say).

So, here's why. Authors are divided by work. And authors have works. "Sin-liqe-unninni" doesn't have any works, because you're really the only person to use his name, and he didn't "win" on the work.

If we went back to using the authors you specify, we'd have to figure out how to decide things when the author was split. In most cases, the work author and the book author are the same. And in most cases if they're not the same, they combine to the same thing (eg., I say Samuel Clemens, you say Mark Twain). In even more cases, the author won't be split. Sin-liqe-unninni is such a circumstance.

But what do I do when you say that Gilgamesh is by John Adams? John Adams is a split author. But John Adams doesn't have Gilgamesh as a work, so there's no way to decide which John Adams.

The only real solution would be start showing on work pages not only works but all books that have every been assigned to that author by any member. My god, that would be a frickin' disaster.

Does my explanation make sense? What way forward?

So, we're debating this here—Jeremy is up in Maine.

Maybe we need to allow members to specify which exact author they mean. This would work like the LC or DDC numbers—it would be able to take it from the work level most of the time. Much of the rest of the time there would be no choice--the author isn't split. But users would able to choose and override.

So, basically, if I say Gilgamesh if by John Adams there'd be a way for me to specify exactly which John Adams I say.

Yes, your explanation makes sense - even to a non-techie like me. Don't get me wrong. I'm certainly not hugely upset by any of this. In fact I'm over the moon because we now have better author splitting. Just calling in possible problems as/if/when I see them.

ETA:
In short, if your answer is: this is what we can reasonably do for you, you won't hear me complaining.

But I do have to make a case for poor old "Sin-liqe-unninni". Just because most people nowadays haven't heard of him doesn't mean he should be called "Anonymous" ;-)

21> That sounds like a good compromise. As it is you're going to get a lot of bug reports by people looking at their memes and seeing authors that aren't in their catalogs. You can look at the first two, Scott Adams and American Medical Association.

I still have authors in the Not Set column that point to the disambiguation page instead of one of the split authors. You can look at the first two, Scott Adams and American Medical Association.

>20 timspalding:

Perhaps to be debated in the philosophy thread?

For information about Sin-liqe-unnini, see the Norwegian wikipedia.

Jeremy and I had a long dog walk and thought through the situation.

Basically, I think I have the solution. I'll get to work on it soon, perhaps tonight. My apologies that it's not perfect now. But I think I have some good answers.

No worries. We (I) don't expect instant perfection. But we (I) love the fact that you guys are at least listening to us. I may not always get my way, but that's cool too.

Also: long dog walks are the greatest.

20 > some of that (books showing up on the pages of authors that single copies are assigned to) is happening already. See Heidi and Ben Hur on Charles Dickens (1)'s page.

Okay, I've changed it back to a book basis. This affects the author gallery, author cloud and the memes.

Let me know what you think.

The only problem is when your book lists an author that is divided, but your author isn't the same author as the work has. Under such a situation LT doesn't know which author you mean, and uses the disambiguation page as the link and can't, obviously, invent a picture. I'm working on a solution there.

So, looking as you at your lists I see:

1. No author gallery picture for Dan Morris--correct, as only Dan Morris 3 has an image.
2. Dan Morris appears on your list of no-picture authors. Correct. Link goes to Dan Morris 1, correct.
3. Dan Morris appears on your Dead or Alive? list as "alive" and the link goes to Dan Morris 1. That's correct, and would be different if it connected to Dan Morris 3.

So, what's wrong exactly?

Okay, so what is currently wrong in your lists or memes?

The second from the top author in my Male or Female meme is Daniel C. Dennett and it points to the disambiguation page. On that page my book is correctly checked as under the first author. Also, the name in my catalog is Danial Dennett without the C.

When you say it's now using the book for the basis of the meme doesn't that mean it should take the author name from my catalog? And it should be pointing to the author sub-page instead of the disambiguation page?

I guess what I have is this situation?

The only problem is when your book lists an author that is divided, but your author isn't the same author as the work has.

But my author is combined with the author that the work has so doesn't that make it the same author?

I see now. Daniel Dennett and Danial C. Dennett are combined at the disambiguation page level so it doesn't know which sub-level author I have. But it knows that my work is under the first sub-author so why can't it tell that the author should be there too?

If the only Daniel Dennett is Daniel C. Dennett (or by far the most famous) I don't see that they fact that there are two Daniel C. Dennetts should have any bearing on whether they should be combined or separated.

I'm not understanding you. The authors aren't separate, they're combined or they were, I haven't checked it since this morning, and ambiguous how?

But there's no ambiguity. The system knows which work the author goes with in my catalog and can use that work to find the right author. I suppose there could be a problem if I had two JohnWilsons in my catalog and they were actually different people. In that case I would hope that LT lists two JohnWilsons in the meme list.

Closing, since the actual bug seems to have been fixed.