The fantasy that science fiction readers read...

You're a science fiction fan, there's no doubt about it; you've joined this group, haven't you? But even the most stalwart SF reader occasionally strays over the rather fuzzy line between fantasy and SF. Do you consider yourself primarily a SF reader and never read fantasy in any form? Or, are you a SF fan who indulges in fantasy (the literary kind) once in a while ... or perhaps you are a fan of SF & Fantasy equally?

If, as a SF fan, you read fantasy, what kinds do you enjoy and who do you read?

Terry Pratchett mostly. Don't read much else fantasy these days.

I don't read alot of fantasy, but I was introduced to Brandon Sandersonthrough another group. I've read Elantris and I'm currently reading Mistborn. I'm hooked!

I like both science fiction and fantasy.

I started out as a pretty straightforward SF fan until about ten years ago when I started reading quite a bit of magical realism, surrealism and some other odds and ends. I read Graham Joyce, Jonathan Carroll, Nalo Hopkinson,. China Miéville, Margo Lanagan, Judith Berman...there's too many to list all. I'm not attracted to the sword & sorcery, heroic, and quest fantasies. I never liked (nor finished) Tolkien, I'm more of a Mervyn Peake / Gormenghast sort of gal.

I'm a fantasy reader that occasionally reads some science fiction.

I'm not into epic fantasy series, other than Tolkien's. I'll read Terry Pratchett and Tom Holt, and I enjoyed Karen Miller's books.

I'm about 50/50. Depends what I'm in the mood for. I tend more towards YA series fantasy and adult space opera series SF.

I probably lean more toward fantasy than Sci Fi but only a little Fantasy/SciFi 60/40. I seem to be a little pickier for Science Fiction reading.

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I'm pretty much the same but not a gal. Only I have only read some of Lanagan's short stories and not read Judith Berman at all. Only I have read Tolkien and liked it but generally don't like much else in the heroic quest vein. I do enjoy Pratchett as well.

50/50 is what i thought but when I checked my tags apparently its more 70/30 F to SF which suprises me. Maybe I own more fantasy but don't read it so often? Of course there are a lot of epic series which up the F count, but then there is 9 books of Foreigner as SF too ? hmmmmm

I'm not overly keen on Belgariad style heroic quests, but I liked Lord of the Rings, and Paladin so it all depends. I also like Trudi Canavan's detailed worlds, Master of Whitestorm is another excellant work, without the huge series dependency.
I do like a lot of cross-genre novels Morgaine Saga and the Pern books too. Wizard of Earthsea by another cross genre master (mistress?) Le Guin.

I read both, and fantasy *just* edges out SF. Part of that is I've been hearing more about newer fantasy titles that I'd probably like more than SF. Plus, I have yet to get hooked into any SF series, whereas I have a few fantasy ones I follow.

As far as type goes, I think I like a little bit of everything.

I read a lot of fantasy when I was younger but it has been mostly SF for the last several years. I tend to like fantasy with a unique world - not the same elves, dwarves, etc. everyone else writes. Examples I've really liked are the Jhereg series by Stephen Brust and the Ethshar series by Lawrence Watt-Evans. One fantasy author that I appreciate more and more is Robert E. Howard; the inventor of sword and sorcery. His writing is very powerful and vivid. You have to look for unedited versions of his writing though. Most of his work has been butchered by various editors over the years.

I used to read a lot more Fantasy but recently it seems to have fallen away. I loved Tolkien and as a result could never quite get on with the Belgariad which just seemed a bit too derivative. I could never really get into Robert Howard and that sort of thing either, they all just seemed to merge into one after a while. Occasionally I still come across something that I really enjoy.

I loved Cherryh's Dreamstone stuff, and some of the non-discworld Terry Pratchett.

>10 andyl: Judith Berman has only one novel out thus far - Bear Daughter. It is a coming of age novel, a blend of Native American folklore, myth and fantasy. It was aimed at the YA crowd, they put a hideously Pocahontas-like cover on it; but I thought it very good for a debut novel. Berman is an anthropologist by trade, and prior to this novel, she had a related chapbook out with Small Beer Press called Lord Stink and other stories. She does have a rather "notorious" essay which first appeared in the NYRSF, I think, but now is posted on her website about the aging of SF (not the audience but in the stories themselves). It caused quite a stir. I do so love people who shake things up a bit.

Last Readercon she told me she was working on a SF story, I'll have to ask her how that's going...

Much like Rabid Gerbil. I have liked Sean Williams and Mark Chadbourn recently. Also read some of the urban fantasy/fangfracker stuff on occasion.

Haven't really read much epic fantasy for a long time. Tried out Trudi Canavan and was reading Greg Keyes series, but has deteriorated, so won't bother with that anymore. Oh, yeah, and the Mieville character and whatever he is up to.

I read the first books of Robert Jordan's and Terry Goodkind's series' and found both to be boring.

The Chronicles of Amber on the other hand, is simply amazing. I read it three times so far, and plan to read it again soon. :)

I tend to avoid high fantasy apart from Tolkein, on the other hand I do like Hughart's Chinese stories and Brust's "Vlad Taltos" series. If it has a non-medieval/dark ages setting I'm a lot more likely to read it.

I read the Song of Fire and Ice series by George R. R. Martin and the Kushiel series by Jacqueline Carey. I can't stand the elf/witch/wizard kind of fantasy; it's way too boring and limited.

I'm not a big fan of the "popular" fantasy/high fantasy/whatever - stuff like Goodkind and Jordan - but I also absolutely hated GRRM's Song of Fire and Ice. I barely have words for how much I hate those books.

Yeah, I'd have to say I'm not a fan of never likely to be finished at the rate they are going 'double digit doorstops'! :)

Some people enjoy being immersed in another world for a time (or a tome!), not much different, imo, than Dune or any other SF novel with a never-ending succession of sequels. And speaking of never-ending, I noticed that Christopher Tolkien has something new out in hardcover.

I rarely even get through trilogies. Still, that's me.

I thoroughly enjoyed the Elric series, by Michael Moorcock. I'm also a fan of Robert E. Howard. I still read that kind of book occasionally, but now I tend to lean more toward hard science fiction (although I have to say that humorous science fiction is probably my favorite sub-genre).

Pratchett is about it for me, and Tom Holt, I suppose. In the old days, fantasy never really appeared on the horizon, and I lumped Anne McCaffrey in as a strange version of science fiction (although I don't think I ever bought any of her books with my own money).

I have to say that the last three books that I've read that I consider to be fantasy (apart from Pratchett/Holt) I have considered to be absolutely dire. Ship of Magic left me swearing that I would never read another Robin Hobb. The Twist left me swearing that I would never read another David Calder. Vellum left me thinking that I should carry a loaded gun on the off-chance that I might bump into Hal Duncan and put his pathetic life to an end for the misery it's caused me.

I'm a big Patricia A. McKillip and Robin McKinley fan. I'm also not picky and I don't limit my reading to just one thing although most of what I read tends to be SF/F and mystery with some chick lit thrown in.

Hm, hard question to answer in the OP. I started out in fantasy and just recently started reading sci-fi, but now I read a lot of paranormal/urban fantasy lately. It switches back and forth between the two genres, with a bit of horror, mystery, and romance thrown into the mix.

My favorite SF/Fantasy author is: Jack Vance with p.e. The Demon Princes and Tschai, Durdane and Ports of Call/De wilde vaart

other authors: Robin Hobb, Raymond E. Feist, Tolkien

I've read both for a long time, tend to prefer the more literary stuff, e.g., I like a lot of Ursula LeGuin, both her fantasy (Earthsea) and SF (Left hand of Darkness, The Dispossessed). Favorite fantasist is prolly Guy G Kay, esp. Tigana ands Lions. Also loved Gene Wolfe's recent two-vol fantasy The Wizard and The Knight. Not sure if fantasy is the right category, but I've also developed quite a taste for Jasper Fforde.

More fantasy for me. I will bring up Lois Bujold, Diana Wynne Jones, and Steven Erikson as my latest favorites. Eclectic, me?

Ray Bradbury, Terry Prachett, J.R.R. Tolkein,Stephen R. Donaldson & Piers Anthony are the ones that come to mind. Some of Orson Scott Card's work seems to move on a fantasy plane sometimes.

I like anything that is original and I like sci-fi much better than fantasy, but that might be because I haven't read very much fantasy. I enjoyed LOTR but it was difficult to get through. A lot of the fantasy that I have read has so much walking or riding on horseback or whatever and for me I always want them to get there!

My favorite fantasy is probably His Dark Materials I really like Fool on the hill too as far as fantasy.

Anytime when either genre is "geeking out' either on swords or phasers or whatever I get really bored. Anytime either genre introduces me to a great character or develops on concept that I find interesting then I am hooked.

As long as the world (and of course the magic used in it) are consistent, and the characters are believable, I'll dabble in fantasy. I've really enjoyed Jim Butcher's Dresden Files books, as well as the vampire books Anne Rice wrote before she got religion.

And I find myself drawn back to Tolkien from time to time, with a yearning to relive the feelings it gave me the first time I read it.

I'm much more forgiving of 2-D characters in SF, because a good idea can still carry the story for one read. But whatever the reason, my SF reading far outweighs my F reading.

SF&F
I've never been a Hard SF fan.

I consider myself a SF rather than fantasy reader, but since I joined LT I've gotten a few hints at fantasy I'd never heard about before... and thus I've read a lot of fantasy lately ;-)
I thought fantasy was swords'n'sorcerers, mainly, but now I know better - Guy Gavriel Kay is a pure genius at telling stories!
Before LT I'd only enjoyed Ursula K LeGuin (personal fave) and Pratchett, and LoTR which was my main entry to reading books when I was 10...

I find myself reading what I would call fantasy slipstream with SF or alternate universe/history. Like Philip Pullman's HDM. I also very much enjoyed Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel's Trilogy (and now saga, I guess). Both are alternate history-fantasy but also have strong character archs and aren't overfull with wierd mythical creatures and people with crazy names. Both have a strong element of reality in them that, as an SF reader and writer, I want. Philip Pullman's HDM also has a fair bit of real science (dark matter and such) that he wove very nicely into his "Paradise Lost" myth.

I think I give them equal attention, although I admit that on my frazzled days (i.e., most days), I prefer mediocre fantasy to mediocre SF.

Let's see, fantasy authors I like... Terry Pratchett. Diana Wynne Jones. ...

Hm.

I'm not sure how to define the sorts of fantasy that I like. I know that I usually avoid epic fantasy like the dickens, but I made an exception for George R. R. Martin. Magic-centred bildungsromans tend to annoy me.

I read SF and read no fantasy.

i read both SF and fantasy, although i notice that i read more of the former than the latter. i read the usual suspects - le guin, orson scott card, herbert, etc.

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Strange you have Robert Asprin books in your catalogue.
You also have some Pern books which a few of us think are more fantasy than SF.
You also have some of E.C. Tubb's Dumarest series which for me is science fantasy.

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I have many books in my catalogue which I haven't read. Maybe that is the case with rgurskey?

Speaking for myself, I'm not too keen on fantasy as a whole, though I do find there is some I enjoy. Gene Wolf's Book of the New Sun, Roger Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber, L. Sprague de Camp's The Incompleat Enchanter and Lest Darkness Fall, and George R. R. Martin's A Game of Thrones, to name a few.

40>

Sure it is a possibility.

It may also be that they were taking too narrow a focus on what is fantasy.

I've read both but I prefer fantasy and now I'm reading mostly fantasy.

I love anything ficticious, so I'd have to say I'm equal. My library contains anything from Isaac Asimov to T. a. Barron.

I read both fantasy and SF, but I'm a lot more cautious about fantasy, as a lot of it is pretty rubbishy, and I tend not to read much that hasn't been personally recommended, or it's by an author I already know, such as Guy Gavriel Kay, David Gemmell, or Michael Scott Rohan. As an SF reader I've been enjoying Iain M. Banks and Ken Macleod. I'm not sure which category to put Tad Williams's Otherland books into.
(I originally approached Anne McCaffrey's Pern as fantasy, and find the SF angle she puts on it slightly wearisome.)

I'm chomping at the bit to read number two in The Gentleman Bastard series by Scott Lynch.
Red Seas Under Red Skies. It's a caper/adventure/con men series where I enjoyed the first book, The Lies of Locke Lamora.

I tried R. Scott Bakker and he was not for me. I'm thinking of giving The Music of Razors by Cameron Rogers a whirl because Neil Gaiman blurbed him. My fantasy/SF breakdown would probably be 75% SF and 25% fantasy.

I like Speculative Fiction whether it is fantasy or science.

In Fantasy I like Terry Pratchett, Terri Windling, Charles de Lint, Nick Bantock, Neil Gaiman, Jo Clayton, John Crowley Diane Duane, Samuel R. Delany Robert E. Howard, Katharine Kerr, Ursula K. Le Guin,, Tanith Lee, Pat Murphy, Jessica Amanda Salmonson, Margaret St. Clair, Sheri S. Tepper, Jane Yolen, and Roger Zelazny

In Science I like Douglas Adams, Jim Aikin, Greg Bear, David Brin, Jo Clayton, John Crowley, Samuel R. Delany, Diane Duane, Alan Dean Foster, William Gibson, Lee Killough, Donald Kingsbury, Ursula K. Le Guin, Tanith Lee, Stanislaw Lem, Vonda N. McIntyre,, Pat Murphy, Robert Sheckley, Sharon Shinn, Margaret St. Clair, Neal Stephenson, Sheri S. Tepper, James Tiptree, Joan D. Vinge, Kurt Vonnegut, Kate Wilhelm, and Roger Zelazny

It is interesting how many of them write both Fantasy and Science Fiction.

Just finished The Music of Razors on an airplane ride for the same reason VisibleGhost is interested. Neil Gaimon's blurb was pretty well dead on. Really good book, even if the ending feels a little scattered.

I read terry goodkind's sword of truth novels, although I must admit that i only enjoyed the first book. I'm a huge fan of iain banks, both of his "with M" and "without M" books.

I read both SF and fantasy. Our library is a hodgepodge of those genres with a few more thrown in. We have a lot of Star Trek on the shelves. For fantasy we have Anne McCaffrey, Mercedes Lackey, Piers Anthony, Raymond Feist and Tamora Pierce.

I have truly bizarre taste in books, sometimes. I have a penchant for Theodore Sturgeon and William Tenn, while indulging in The Stainless Steel Rat for fun and satire. I can't go past Cordwainer Smith, who is definitely sci-fi, but reads like really good fantasy.

For good fantasy, I read Robin Hobb, but for guilty, and somewhat embarrassing pleasure, I read Katherine Kerr and **blush** Charlaine Harris. I also enjoy Piers Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality, beginning with On a Pale Horse, but don't go anywhere near Xanth.

There are days, weeks or months where I'll read pretty much anything if it comes near me. Other days I'll forgo reading entirely because I can't find anything that comes up to my exacting (...) standards.

I read science and I read fiction (and a lot of other stuff besides) and I read science-fiction. Is it any surprise that I’m particularly fond of “hard” science fiction? I never realized there was such a thing until I came across the anthology The hard SF renaissance.

Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy and Stephen Baxter’s Xeelee Sequence, particularly Exultant, followed and now I’m hooked. On the other hand, I still wait with bated breath for China Mieville’s next tome (Perdido Street Station is still my favorite)!

Although I can’t get enough Gladiator movies (does anyone remember gladiator movie TV show host David the Colossus? Note: NOT the band D.A.V.E. - "Colossus") I cannot abide sword and sandal literature and refuse to be found within 50 miles of a Medievale Faire.

I read them both though i have not idea of the exact ratio....i also couldn't define whether or not i read "hard" science fiction or not....probably not since I've never heard of most of the books talked about....i especially enjoy books that combine both fantasy and scifi like Simon R. Green's Nightside series...

"The fantasy that science fiction readers read..."
- George R.R. Martin and
- David Weber (the fantasy series, and one Science Fiction includes fantasy (dragons and "magic" and oh my)

Otherwise do not read Fantasy.

I read mostly sci-fi with a healthy handful of fantasy thrown in the mix. You're right about the line being fuzzy and some of my all time favorites sit right on that fuzzy line -- Dune, for example, and The Snow Queen.

For more obvious fantasy, Tim Powers has achieved god-like status in my universe and I usually enjoy Neil Gaiman. When a sci-fi author I adore, like Lois McMaster Bujold, crosses over I keep reading. And, on rare occasion when my brain is feeling particularly mushy and I need pure candy I'll pick up some Jim Butcher or Richelle Mead (like candy, I love this stuff in small doses, but too much will upset my tummy). And, of course, I anxiously await the final Harry Potter.

I love a good bit of Fantasy and stray back and forth across that line quite often.

One of my favorite fantasy/sf mixes is the Council of War series by John Ringo - it's set in the future, where there is incredibly advanced technology that allows people to change bodies and become dragons and mermaids, and then chronicles the effects of the fall of that technology. It blurs the line quite a bit, and throws in the apocalyptic feel that I am quite fond of. :)

Interesting. I never thought of that Ringo series as Fantasy. The mermaids/dragons and even the elves are man-made modifications using science.

I used to be a die-hard sci-fi-only person, and openly sneered at anything labeled "fantasy." But over the past year or so, I've bitten the bullet, overcome some of my snobbishness, and read some fantasy. When I discovered the Vampire Chronicles of Anne Rice, I was utterly, irretrievably hooked, and I've been branching out from there. I'm still not interested in wizards and dragons and such, though.

I just found Guy Gavriel Kay and stayed up way too late last night reading the first book (The Summer Tree) in the Fionavar Tapestry trilogy.

My reading tastes are pretty broad; sometimes when I'm asked what I like to read I'll reply "If it's got covers with pages in between, I'll start it."

Just read Daywatch and I'm currently working my way though Scar Night. Generally I tend to be a bit broad in my views of speculative fiction.

I mostly read science fiction, and other genres, including suspense, mysteries, and literary fiction, but I do read the occasional fantasy or magic realism title. I have read Sword of Shannara and I enjoyed it a lot, but I'm not really an elves and dwarves fan. And no, I haven't even read *gasp* Tolkien, though I did love the movies. I still haven't decided if I'll go back and read the books.

I enjoy a lot of urban fantasy, and even though it had elves, J.M. Ford's The Last Hot Time was excellent. I also really enjoyed Gypsy by Steven Brust and Megan Lindholm.

I've been enjoying the Dresden Files on TV, so I might end up reading the books. So many people keep recommending them.

I just recently finished Sebastian by Anne Bishop, and I'm keeping an eye out for the sequel, Belladonna. The universe she weaves in this story is fascinating.

I read it all - sci fi & fantasy. If something's well written, I'll read it.

I enjoy humorous fantasy like Jasper Fforde and fantasy that isn't high fantasy. I read about 60 Fantasy and 40 Science Fiction. I like Orson Scott Card who writes Fantasy, Alvin Maker Series, and Science Fiction Ender's Game.

craso, I'm interested in your takes on those OSC series. I found the first two books in each series quite good (interestingly, I would say the second was better in each case), but after that both series went downhill in my opinion. Did you enjoy the later books as much as the earlier ones?

I don't read much fantasy but am currently really enjoying Gene Wolf's Book of the New Sun series, which feels pretty much like sci-fi to me anyway.

Apart from the obvious The Lord of the Rings I can't think of any fantasy I've read (unless you count The Cornelius Chronicles) although I'll check here for recommendations by fellow sci-fi fans...

Jim53, you are right about the Alvin Maker Series, especially the last two in the series which were very disappointing. I want to read this series to the conclusion which should be the next book, whenever that one comes out. He writes this series so sporadically that he needs guidance from fans to remember the plot threads. I am now starting to read Xenocide and I am having a hard time starting it. What did you think of this book? I decided to give it a try because I enjoyed Speaker for the Dead so much.

If you look at OSC's record, the first books in the Ender's Series won both the Hugo and the Nebula with Xenocide being nominated for the Hugo. With the Maker Series Seventh Son was nominated for World Fantasy and the Hugo. Red Prophet and Prentice Alvin were nominated for the Hugo and the Nebula. I don't think OSC has been nominated for an award since.

I actually go through phases where I'll read more of sci-fi or fantasy than the other - but i have a good mix of both on my shelves. But what falls into 'speculative fiction' seems to rise to the top of my favorites list, but i do do the doorstop epic fantasy too. I'm pretty wide open, huh?

For speculative fiction I would recommend:

All of China Mieville's books - but especially Perdido Street Station and The Scar. King Rat is also great as a debut novel and not as widely known.

The Etched City by K.J. Bishop is also excellent if you enjoy Mieville's work.

Viriconium by M. John Harrison is awesome, as is Veniss Underground by Jeff VanderMeer

James Morrow's work is great - particularly Only Begotten Daughter and This is the Way the World Ends

For Doorstopper Fiction

George R.R. Martin 's series A Song of Ice and Fire is amazing if you can deal with how many books are in the series so far and the way they are split up.

J.R.R. Tolkein of course. And Elric series byMichael Moorcock

Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen Series (just get past Gardens of the Moon and you'll be rewarded (although I loved it, some folks say it's the most inaccessible of his books - i don't agree IMHO).

The Prince of Nothing Series, which starts with The Darkness That Comes Before by R. Scott Bakker is also great. Greater at it's start than at the end, but well worth the time investment it requires.

#66> glad you're enjoying TBotNS. It's probably my favorite book, and IMHO is the high-water mark for literary SF. I would say that it's SF that uses lots of fantasy elements.

#67> I found Xenocide and Children of the Mind just about unreadable. I struggled through them because SftD was so good, but I don't remember them well at all. It seems as if he used up the great ideas and then just fiddled with them for several more books. Sorta like the Dune books, as I remember.

I tend to prefer good SF writers who also dabble in fantasy:

As was usual with me, I absolutely hated the idea of fantasy... until I read J.R.R. Tolkien. Then I absolutely hated anything that wasn't as good as Tolkien; and then...

A Wizard of Earthsea - Ursala K. Le Guin
Lyonesse and sequels - Jack Vance
Chronicles of Corum - Michael Moorcock
Fortress in the Eye of Time and particularly The Dreaming Tree - C.J. Cherryh
Numerous works by Sheri Tepper.
Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe may not strictly be fantasy, but it's close.
The Fall of the Towers - Samuel R. Delany

Among the newer writers, Barbara Hambly and Lawrence Watt-Evans are my favorites. I also confess that I'm rather entertained by The Black Company stories of Glen Cook, potboilers though they might be.

Couldn't stand Robert Jordan, first book was good fun but got awful tiring after the next couple.

New stuff by Gene Wolfe such as The Knight and The Wizard are also good.

My first criteria is always good writing, i.e. writers I trust; Watt-Evans and Hambly were both recommended by my brother, who is more of a fantasy buff.

Terry Pratchett's Discworld books
Anne McCaffrey's Pern books (although, there is a smidge of sci-fi in there two)
David Gemmell, Orson Scott Card's Maker series...

I don't tend to get to stuck up about genres - I even like to read Tom Clancy (although not much of his more recent stuff - say, since, Executive Orders)
Books are good because they make you think, or make you identify, or otherwise hit a chord - and that can come from any genre...

Ahh, well. It's not not really the genre I get stuck in (not now, anyway); I also like Tom Clancy, as well as Martha Grimes, Dick Francis, John Grisham, even Stephen King and Dean Koontz and quite a bit of classic lit.

I'm just very, very hesitant to pick up new writers. I hate to not finish a book; and even though I may have started reading relatively crappy stuff (no mentions here, heeheh), it's a lot harder to read bad stuff now.

Orson Scott Card's books are what its all bout for SF fans

I started off reading sci-fi, but beyond a handful of best-selling (male) authors, there is very little sci-fi on the shelves of the average UK bookshop, so I ended up reading fantasy by default. I've always preferred cultural & socio-political sci-fi to high technology so it's probably less of a leap into reading fantasy.

I'm severely allergic to buy-by-the-kilo epics, but like the convincing alternate worlds portrayed by authors like Martha Wells Death of the Necromancer or Barbara Hambly The Silent Tower / Sisters of the Raven. Good fantasies have just as compelling a portrait of society & politics as good sci-fi - CJ Cherryh Fortress in the Eye of Time, Victoria StraussThe Burning Land.

After reading through the thread, I've noticed a few trends in sci fi readers making the trek to fantasy land. Other than the unabashed "I like sci fi and fantasy equally" folks, the rest of these posts seem to mostly fall into one of three categories:

1. A fantasy book fell into your hands, and your eyes read a word and kept going.

2. You read a sci-fi author, liked his/her style, and followed him/her into the realms of fantasy.

3. "I don't really read much fantasy, but..."

...all in all, speaking from a professional therapist's point of view, these rationalizations sound like classic denial! :)

But I did notice one type of book that was oddly left out of this list: Science Fantasy. Has no one "crossed over" by reading a book with both science fiction AND fantasy in it? It's a difficult genre to write well, since you have to juggle so many variables. Does Science Fantasy turn away more people from crossing genre boundaries than it brings across?

Can you give some examples of science fantasy? I find it difficult to keep the categories straight. The closest I can think of is those silly cyberpunk stories where characters from the the virtual world (gasp! surprise!) suddenly manifest in the real world.

Or do you mean Star Wars? :)

buchleser

I think we have different definitions of Science Fantasy. I call things Science Fantasy when they look like Science Fiction but are actually Fantasy (case in point: Star Wars). I'm sure I've read books that include both, but I think I just call them Fantasy.

Of course, I'm one of your unabashed "I like both equally" folks, anyway :)

I really prefer Science Fiction to Fantasy as a general rule, reading works that range from hard science fiction to space opera. It's been harder to find Fantasy that I enjoy reading having started with Tolkein's The Hobbit and then The Lord of the Rings - The Chronicles of Narnia just didn't have the same power or depth for me. Phillip Pullman's The Golden Compass series I found to be very appealing and I'm really looking forward to the upcoming films. Orson Scott Card's Ender series struck me as more science fiction than fantasy though I did enjoy them. However, he did write what I consider a really good fantasy novel in Enchantment which is based upon Russian Fairy Tales and myths.

Robert A. Mosher

Just skimmed through this thread again, and realised that although I avoid fantasy in the main, it has to be said that one of my all-time favourites is fantasy: The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen R. Donaldson.

I'm new to this group and pretty new to LT, and I'm looking forward to exploring some of the works mentioned in the above posts - thanking you all for the ideas.

My preferences run to Science Fiction first, historical romance second and fantasy third.

I've read The Hobbit and The Lord of The Rings by J.R.R. Tolkein several times, and just acquired The Simarillion - second edition, with a lengthy letter from Tolkein to his editor. I've read the seven books in the Chronicles of Narnia by C. S. Lewis, and his Perelandra series.

Recently I've enjoyed Lynn Viehl - her Darkyn series, the Ships trilogy by Robin Hobbs, and the outstanding Talyn by Holly Lisle. In fact, I've found any fantasy by Holly Lisle is worth reading, usually worth reading twice.

In speculative fiction, I enjoyed my first book by Charles De Lint, Someplace to Be Flying, and expect to read more his work soon, and must include R. S. MacAvoy - The Grey Horse - it doesn't matter if it is twenty years old now, it is timeless, and has a similar, 'real world, with a twist' feel to it as De Lint.

In the category of Science Fiction melded with Fantasy, I think Cloud's Rider by C. J. Cherryh fits the bill, or so it felt to me, and Carnivores of Light and Darkness (Book 1 of Journeys of the Catechist), by Alan Dean Foster, even more so.

Hmm, this little list has grown alarmingly - and fantasy runs a distant third in my favorite genres. Proof, perhaps, that I'm a bookworm.

I'm a fan of books with what I call "systematic magic". These are fantasy books where magic works a certain way, and wishful thinking or manifest destiny is no substitute for learning how to work within its rules. The best of these tickle me the same way as hard sf does.

Examples:

Magician's Guild by Trudi Canavan. Actually the second part The Novice has most of the good stuff. It has magic with simple principles (an energy field around the body, a source of power, the ability to project bolts of force). Much is built on this foundation, including some spectacular magical battles, and some surprising consequences of the basic rules. You just have to get past the schoolyard bullying plot.

Master of the Five Magics by Lyndon Hardy, which has not one but five kinds of magic whose inner workings are exposed to the reader.

Wizard's Bane by Rick Cook is about a computer programmer who gets dumped into a fantasy world, where he finds similarities between magic and programming.

#76, 77 Amtep, BlueSalamander

Actually Star Wars is considered by many to be science fantasy because it has the makings of both genres (i.e., fictional scientific constructs and a system of 'magic'). If we're talking videos, then Babylon 5 might also be considered science fantasy (case in point, the "Techno Mages").

Literary-wise, science fantasy novels might include Anne McCaffrey's Damia, To Ride Pegasus, etc. in which there are space ships and yet there are also people with mental powers.

This brings up the not-quite-age-old question, "What's the difference between telekinesis and levitation?"

>82 buchleser:

This brings up the not-quite-age-old question, "What's the difference between telekinesis and levitation?"

You know, I've never pondered that question. But now that you've set me thinking, both of those would require manipulation of one of the four fundamental forces, without disruption of the other three. Probably blows a hole in any putative GUTs that are out there, if either are true.

ETA: Any connection between my brain and my fingers is purely speculative, at best.

Re: original post.

I read very little fantasy, but I've been utterly captivated by Glenda Larke's "Isles of Glory" trilogy consisting of The Aware, Gilfeather, and The Tainted.

Great characterization, fantastic world-building. High stakes, with a certain amount resolution at the end of each book, not just at the end of the trilogy.

#82: Funny, I was wondering whether to include the Many-Colored Land series in my list of books with systematic magic, and in the end decided not to because it's described as psionic powers and not as magic. I do think the label matters, if you consider SF and fantasy as settings. If you look at the mechanics, then a lot of SF isn't SF :-)

82, 77, 76 -

I normally use Science Fantasy as the polite form of Space Opera - 'science fiction' that breaks some of the basic laws of science. Hyperspace and FTL are not necessarily in that category - but James Schmitz's Sheewash Drive in Witches of Karres is. For a really mixed book - Piers Anthony's Blue Adept series - the characters literally travel back and forth between an SF world and the same (parallel) world with magic.

So what's with the author touchstones? Books work fine, but the authors all come up red. Author pages being worked on?

Oh, and as I don't seem to have chimed in on this one before - I'm one of the equal portions people. I've always (since I could remember) read whatever appealed, and don't separate them - some bookstores do and it was _very_ peculiar (this was in the UK in the 90s). I say that SF is my primary genre, but that's really SF&F.

I read both, SciFi and Fantasy, though I tend to read more and more books that aren't "High fantasy" or "high SF" either but cross the lines between each other and between other genres. I like very much the books of Thorne Smith (ie Night Life of the Gods), and I also loved Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell by Susanna Clarke. And I'm absolutely thrilled that the "Library of Babel" by Jorge Luis Borges (not the short story, but his compilation of phantastic literature of 3 centuries) comes out in a wonderful new german edition.

List of books in the Library of Babel:
http://www.interleaves.org/~rteeter/grtborges.html

Ah - I think of "science fantasy" as things that fall into both genres or could fall into either depending. And I actually have a rather strict sense about what I consider to be science fantasy.

A primary hallmark of science fantasy, I think, are technologies that are actually fantasy powers with a faux "science-y" explanation. Including:

(1) implausible and/or non-realistic things gussied up with "scientific" explanations, such as
--(a) any "science fiction" with deities or supernatural entities
--(b) reincarnation, soul transferance, souls, etc.
--(c) psionic powers, e.g., the Darkover books - a faux science-y explanation for wish fulfillment if I've ever seen one. LOTS of science fiction falls into this category. Darkover stands out because the people of Darkover interact with it as if it's magic, until the Terran intervention sciences it up. But lots of so-called classic science fiction is really gussied-up fantasy. "Star Wars" and The Force and mitichlorions are another perfect example.
--(d) Some semi-plausible but unlikely science fiction gimmick to create basically a fantasy world, e.g., John Varley's Titan and sequels; or Julian May's Pleistocene saga (depending on how you feel about time travel as plausible; but there are psionic powers, so it falls under (c) anyway). Edgar Rice Burroughs, etc., because arguably at the beginning of the stories the underlying concepts (martian water, people, civilization) were at least semi-plausible. But there's no denying that these are fantasy adventures.
Lots of people would put FTL in one of the earlier categories, but I'm going to stick it here in (1)(d). Even then I'll exclude a lot of things which include FTL because it's become a convention, like the ansible, which permits otherwise-science fictional explorations of ideas. In other words, I think the mode can still be science fiction even if there's FTL.

(2) plausible science fictional explanations placed on top of a preexisting fantasy world; e.g., Anne McCaffrey's Pern books. A retroactive classification. Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover would fit here too probably. Retro-genration? I would distinguish this from things like Rosemary Kirstein's Steerswoman's series, in which a science fiction world is presented as a fantasy world, and slowly unveiled to be science fiction. It is science fiction through & through, as far as I can tell.

I find this definition works well for me -- these works operate in a fantasy mode with a "science" sheen. I'd likely place it as a subgenre of both science fiction and fantasy, but if I had to pick only one, I'd go with fantasy.

oooo! lquilter, I think this would make a nice start on a new thread! A leetle cut and paste, please.

75> Science Fantasy:
The Last Hot Time by John M. Ford (a Fantasy world linked to "the real world" of the future, called something like Science Fantasy in descriptions I saw of it before I read it)
The Green and the Gray by Timothy Zahn
Hell's Gate by David Weber and Linda Evans (Race of humans that use Science vs. a Race of Humans that use "magic")
Hell Hath No Fury by David Weber and Linda Evans (Race of humans that use Science vs. a Race of Humans that use "magic")

I don't think I've used that tag, though.

And no, I did not enter Fantasy through reading Science Fantasy.

lquilter at #88: thanks for that: that's pretty much how I divvy up the field, too.

these works operate in a fantasy mode with a "science" sheen. I'd likely place it as a subgenre of both science fiction and fantasy, but if I had to pick only one, I'd go with fantasy.

Except that in my own thinking, for the edge cases, I tend to put it in the "science fiction" box - on the theory that hey, a lot of the science in SF won't actually stand up to close scrutiny.

(E.g. - because the very example lquilter cites: strictly speaking, any SF story that depends upon FTL is properly 'science fantasy'. And so - if one uses the intermediate 'science fantasy' taxonomy - there goes half the field, right there....)

So if the author makes at least a nominal effort - if there's sufficient hand-waving - I'll agree that it's 'science fiction'.

Yeah, like in the case of Julian May, the Pleistocene Saga opens with FTL. :)

"To confirm that it was near death, the great vessel broke through into normal space with lingering slowness."

etc.

Add in time travel, space fleets, alien ambassadors, palaeontology, astronomy, recognisable centuries hence Earth culture, antigravity cars, x-ray lasers etc., energy weapons, clones, etc. pretty obviously in the SF basket for me.

So in multiple lq categories here already. :)

Plenty of handwaving about the psionic powers being the result of thousands of years of inbreeding with the superpowered aliens that landed in the Pleistocene, sure.

Sorry if I'm resurrecting a dead thread...

I used to read all sorts of fantasy when I was a kid. But once I discovered Arthur C. Clarke and hard sci-fi, I noticed I lost my patience with fantasy.

I have over the last few years tried books by R.A. Salvatore (I'll save you from my opinion of Canticle), Terry Brooks, Mercedes Lackey (I thought a work about a gay wizard might keep me interested enough to finish) and Lian Hearn, but never finished them.

The only fantasy I can read any more is stuff by Robert E. Howard, Michael Moorcock and Fritz Leiber. The Hobbit has been a favorite for years, so I could reread that.

I have noticed that I enjoy a lot of the Warhammer novels. I think I like those for some of the reasons I can still enjoy fantasy by the authors I have listed above. They are (for fantasy anyway) short, punchy and to the point. Not afraid to be bitter and as unromantic as can be. Also very unlikely to produce many doorstoppers.

terry pratchett, david eddings and robert feist mainly. i also try new authors on a regular basis. after all if you don`t suck it you wouldn`t know what you are missing.

oh sometimes it takes me while to get back to threads! i'll start a science fantasy thread now ...

I've tried several fantasies over the years. Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time was fun up until about book five... then it all started fall apart. Steve Erickson's Gardens of the moon read like a write-up of a RPG campaign to me. Oh wait, it WAS based on a RPG campaign :-) George RR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire was another one that started well, but the plot soon stumbled to a halt.

On the other hand, sf writer Richard Morgan has a fantasy out in 2008. I think I'll be picking up a copy of that...

I normally consider myself only a science fiction fan -- except that I've been unable to find books of sf lately that I have an interest in. I think I've found myself only liking books in the field of, "if it's consistent and it doesn't break ALL known rules of physics" science fiction. I've more than had my fill of science fiction where the authors could use at least a basic course in "how stuff works."

Which comes to my main gripe about fantasy -- I can't stand the inconsistencies. If someone can levitate in part 1 then somehow mysteriously can't or doesn't remember they can do it in part 2... I toss the book. (If I think to myself, "wow, so the author(s) just played an RPG game and transcribed it into a book..." it gets tossed *immediately!*)

With all of that being said, I do have two favourites in 'regular' fantasy:
Tolkien's Lord of the Rings - The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King (The Hobbit is quite a nice little introductory story to the trilogy as well.) and
Pullman's His Dark Materials - The Golden Compass (The Northern Lights, original title,), The Subtle Knife, The Amber Spyglass

O'Brien's Mrs. Frisby and the rats of Nimh is a cute little read that I've loved for ages, but, as to the genre -- I find it sometimes under fantasy and sometimes under science fiction, but I tend to think that maybe it is fantasy with a science underpinning (like the Pern books.)

I probably read about 80% scifi/ 20% fantasy. My fantasy favorites: the Malazan Book of the Fallen series, Teot's War, The Lions of Al-Rassan, Gormenghast, Bridge of Birds, the early Wheel of Time books, The Curse of Chalion and of course The Lord of the Rings.

I consider myself a fantasy guy overall, but since fantasy and sci-fi over-lap in so many bookstores and libraries, I have come into some close personal contact with the sci-fi genre over the years. I'd say I'm 75% fantasy and 25% sci-fi. As for my fantasy loves, J.R.R. Tolkien, Michael Moorcock and C.S. Lewis are favorites of mine. The Belgariad by David Eddings, and the Prydain Chronicles by Lloyd Alexander are also special loves for me.