SALON READS 2012

(or as the Mayans knew it, 4 Ah Hau 3 Ken Ken)

The idea here is to settle on a structure for Salon reading for the next year, so that, rebel reads aside (and I love them and hope that A_Musing starts many), we have a relatively steady sense of what's coming down the pipe. I have missed too many reads by not being able to acquire the books in question till the party's over--this will give time for some advance planning, as well as, hopefully, let us agree on a bulk of reading that's acceptable to most. Following Slick's suggestion, my tentative plan is to set a spooky end-of-October deadline for discussion on the structure of reads--how many; when; what counts as a tome, exactly, if we are to retain the concept of "tome"; other questions (?????), and then have till the end of November to decide on specific books, so we can go out and acquire them as necessary for Jan 1.

Is this way too procedural? Am I tearing the wings off a teddy bear? Painting over a rainbow? If not, as a starting place, let me say that I liked that thing we used to do of a seasonal tome read and monthly smaller reads except in tome months. It was like a cosmic minuet.

My teddy bear is weeping; otherwise, your plan sounds good to me.

"seasonal tome read and monthly smaller reads except in tome months"

Reasonable. I like it.

*Hands a hankie to Urania1's teddy bear*

Yes. I also like one "event" read with multiple potential texts, like the WW1 event. Pushing again the Backhouse/Leys/Trevor-Roper reading event.

I'm sorta getting confused. Is the idea to have four Tome reads next year (one per season and there are four seasons I think, even in Australia and South Africa)

I would like to keep the idea of a loose poetry year long read as well. Pounds Canto's has been suggested.

Other smaller book reads could take the form of rebel reads for groups that wish to explore off shoots from the Tome's chosen or something completely different.

Any book length poem counts as a tome, unless it is by Dr. Seuss.

Okay, so:

Four tome reads (one a book-length poem)
Seven shorter works (one an author read with Rick H.)
One "event" read

?

I guess this is slipping quickly into "which books shall we read" territory again--perhaps the division is impossible to maintain.

event read?

Is the event read the Cantos?

I like the four tome reads with seven shorter works, like it even more when some of the shorter works are truly short, like Nathaniel West or Clarice Lispector, and like it when we mix up some plays and poetry with novels.

I'm also in favor of anything Murr would lead. Brothers K with Murr was wonderful.

>9 A_musing: Brothers K with Murr was wonderful.

It was, wasn't it?

>9 A_musing: for now, on this thread, I am eschewing content. When the time comes, I will demand that it be the Cantos.

thank you both, I enjoyed it too, and I'm happy to lead anything I have some knowledge of. We could fit in a rebel read of Rene Leys, (which I would be delighted to lead) after MM.

I also like the 4 tomes per year for all Salonistas (which should be mandatory, otherwise whippings, forfeits etc) with rebel reads of shorter works for whoever is interested. Even though I have not done many rebel reads, I enjoy following the discussions.

I would love to do Pound's Cantos, as a long long project. I think we've got such a wide range of expertise in the salon that a group read of this difficult work could really be worthwhile and exciting. This project definitely gets my vote.

Also, for those interested, I'm going to be studying Marx's Kapital with my RL friend tommyb27, who is a die-hard Marxist and whom some of you may remember from the BK read, starting Chinese New Year (january end). We'll probably keep our discussion here in le salon, and anyone is welcome to join us, but don't let that interfere with other plans for the 4 tomes. oh gosh, and I also have Barthes's The Preparation of the Novel on the slate to read with Zeno. So there we go, two rebel reads for 2012 right there! :)

IN FOR CAPITAL. I mean, if I weren't eschewing content I would be.

Mon dieu Mon dieu. We should not overfill the year with group readings. A few well chosen are to be preferred.

Murrushka,

May I join you and zeno in reasing the Barthes?

No Marx for me this year. Marxism (especially the post-toastie kind) makes me cry right now.

14, yes I agree. I'm just letting you know what some of my reading plans are for next year, so that those who are interested can join. No pressure on anyone.

Yes, Urania, if Zeno agrees as well. Would love to have you along.

As long that you do it in public

May I add a request about the 2012 readings. Please remember the ladies. Men are not the only writers.

Yeah! *jumping on feminist bandwagon..cuz it's there* ;-)

ETA: Can we read Virginia Woolf? or Mary Wollstonecraft?

Woolf pls!

How about Marguerite Duras in words and images?

Oh, yes! Woolf, Wollstonecraft or Duras! Or how about ALL of them?

We needed a feminist bandwagon. We now have one.

Another suggestion for the poetry fans: Madwomen: The "Locas mujeres" Poems of Gabriela Mistral

"They want to hear my own story
which on my living tongue is dead.
I search for someone who remembers it,
page for page, thread for thread.
I'll lend them my breath, give them my beat
to see if hearing it wakes it in me."

15, 17 - yes it would be nice to have urania's erudition on the Barthes read.

I also like urania's Foucault's Pendulum suggestion, not least because it seems like more than a read - almost a treasure hunt. The esoteric is a source of fascination to me at the moment, so would be timely...

Woolf, Duras, and Wollstoncraft are too easy. For a group read, I think something more challenging is in order.

The Bell Jar? Or something by Adrienne Rich?

Prose-wise: I read the Second Sex a few years ago. It was suitably heavy and hard to get through. The Feminine Mystique was practically airplane reading in comparison.

Memoirs of Hadrian?

I might suggest the following:

Lady Mary Wroth's The First Part of the Countess of Montgomery's Urania -weighs in at 821 pages and there's always the second part if 821 pages isn't enough

Lady Murasaki's The Tale of Genji 1210 pages

Miss MacIntosh, My Darling (2 vols long) listed on Wikipedia as one of the world's longest novels. Young was quite interesting. She taught at the New School for Social Research.

She had cried outside many gates of stillness where only her own voice had cried back to her, bouncing like the echo, little doubt, or like a ball, and sometimes she had heard that echo of which there had been no voice as there had been no shadow of her, and she had knocked at many doors which had not opened to her knocking, and some said that she was only the shadow and thus did not recognize herself, for the shadow knew not the substance although the substance knew the shadow, and some said that there had never been a lady but this lady who was lost and wandering through mountain storms where wandered also the sails of yachts white as that snow through which they wandered from pole to pole -- but how much more successful she had been in her failure than if only one door had opened to her knock. She had not been committed to one destiny. Who heard the knock of her dead heart? Success would have limited her as if with a golden compass had been drawn an arc omitting all but her path between two stars, but failure left many questions unanswered, or so it seemed to the old lawyer in that still house where he had been of two opinions, of two minds as to the door. (Marguerite Young, Miss MacIntosh, My Darling

And if anyone is interested in what would be the most expensive LE Salon tome read ever, there is always Henry Darger: In the Realms of the Unreal by outsider artist Henry Darger. It has never been published in its entirety (~15,000 pages long). The cheapest copy I could locate weighed in at $427. I know what I want for Christmas. I know what I probably will never get for Christmas ever. This year, I think Beloved has in mind hand-forged alpine goat bells (I am guessing).

I would lead a reading of the Hidden Face of Eve if anyone is interested.

I generally don't have either the time or the literary expertise to lead a read, but I will volunteer if it is Egypt-related, since I lived in the country for 8 years and was married to an Egyptian for 17.

31>

Admit it Mary, you like Darger because he drew goat horns on children. Do you know Morton Bartlett? He's interesting (i.e., unnerving) too.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/sOCOPD0DoVJ7zbT7gR9Sfw

Miss Mackintosh my darling looks very interesting!

> 20

O...M...G

I feel the same way about Ms Woolf, as EF felt about Joyce.

>33 DanMat: DanMat,

I just checked out some of Morton Bartlett's work on the web. He is unnerving. Some of the pieces I looked at seemed to veer into child pornography and I was repulsed. Some of his pieces were gorgeous but as you say in an unnerving way. Outsider art has been a minor interest of mine for a long time. When I taught at the University of Virginia's College at Wise, I had a colleague who had an incredible collection of outsider art. He did really interesting work himself. I have two of his pieces.

>34 QuentinTom: Murrushka,

Then start beating the drum for Miss MacIntosh, My Darling. I have been trying to get a group read going for this book for three years now. I can't find a soul who's interested.

Is the feminist bandwagon the "event" read? It was going to be an Australian history read back when geneg was organising it, but it's ok with me if we change that.

>12 QuentinTom: Murr, I object to ANYTHING mandatory. I hope you were joking, and somehow I think you weren't this time. Anything hedged about by ruyles is not going to get a following from me.

Another Duras is on my TBR list and so are the essays by V. Woolf.

Let's not dismiss Wollstonecraft so easily. For a small, in-between read how about Letters Written in Sweden, Norway, and Denmark?

Miss MacIntosh, My Darling sounds intriguing. Here's her Paris Review interview.

How about something by Dawn Powell? Here's Gore V's take on her.

Of course if we're really going for some women heavy hitters, this isn't even the tip.

There's no reason why women can't be included in both the tome and monthly reads.

MM is going to get all upset if I start suggesting works on this thread instead of talking process and methods, but how about throwing on something more ancient or medieval from a non-Western culture, perhaps some nice Islamic history or philosophy or a bit of Buddhist theology or Hindu story telling?

>41 A_musing: Oops. Posted on wrong thread, I guess. I'll copy #40 to the content thread.

Sorry, Martin.

ETA: Well, never mind. 'Murr links that thread back to this one.

sorry to scare you choco, I was just trying to inject a bit of Ye Olde Dictator spirit into the proceedings.

Talk content! Mangia, mangia, you're skin and bones! BUT I am gonna make you guys take a vote on format/schedj later. I know Summer Stock has sort of sputtered this year, but should we tentatively plan on it for next too? I blame inclement weather and travel plans, not unwilling spirits.

My feminist vote goes to Grimmelshausen's The life of Courage: The notorious Thief, Whore and Vagabond.

P.S. Also, it is a very short book.

>44 MeditationesMartini: I was wondering if I should mention Summer Stock.

Caryl Churchill. My god, there's so much we could do with her.

Or my sentimental favorite--Frederico Garcia Lorca

I would love to read Courage and will read it regardless of whether it is a Salon read, but I fear the feminist vote will be divided concerning its author. At any rate, I second it as a short read.

I know nothing of Grimmelshausen, and I haven't even clicked on the line, but based on title alone, I say aye.

Oh, well, true, he was a 17th century dude, but I still want to steal this book and heroine FOR feminism.

cg--you won't regret it!

No worries, Murr darling. I think by misreading the diktatorness I was quite blind and therefore deserve a forfeit. What shall it be?

perhaps the use of the word MANdatory has provoked a feminine backlash

>45 LolaWalser: I am not optimistic as the piece appears to cover the Thirty Years War. I have never read a book written during or within a hundred years of this period anything but tragically boring. But as it is a Dalkey Archive and available on Kindle, I have reluctantly purchased it.

53: I can guarantee that Simplicissimus is not boring. I would be very surprised if Courage was.

50: Like Urania, you seem to have already read most everything, but in case you haven't, if you loved Simplicissimus you will likely appreciate Paul Busson's The Man Who Was Born Again, too.

52 - lqarl at bas.

womandatory, or persondatory. Which is better?

I saw Vol 1 of Miss Mackintosh my darling in the bookstore yesterday. Should I have got it?

>56 QuentinTom: Yes. What were you thinking.

ok, I"lll go back and get it. but it was just volume 1. The completest in me is screaming.

I JUST noticed our goat-queen's recommendation of The Tale of Genji. A perfect tome selection!

I was thinking of the talk of an "event" and what about something like "Chinese poetry"; we could mash up some Pound, some of that Yip book Murr has pushed (and that I have on order), and several of the other books that have gotten pitched in Murr's discussion thread over the last few weeks.

Sort of like the WWI event where there was one core book but some people reading others.

oh in. Can we combine it with Chinese art? maybe we could base it on a rebel read of Segalen's 'Paintings' or the Dao or something.

The WW1 event was really good.

What about narrowing it down to a certain Chinese period in history (thus 'events') and have a core read of something specific... all I can think of is Wild Swans but I'm not at all well-versed in Chinese literature and Murr and others will of course have other recs. And then painting and poetry will fit in as the other stuff did for WW1?

Tang dynasty anyone? (re Cat's thread). Anything appeal to anyone from here? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Tang_Dynasty_literature

I would love to do the Tang. The poetry gets the most attention, but there are also essays, fables, histories, philosophy, etc. If others are up for it, I may scrounge around and see if there is a good short historical work to use as a base for the period.

I'd love to more about the Tang dynasty.

me too.

Now, I was thinking of starting yet another thread, in which the first post holds the final reads as we decide on them. Any objections?

And if not, then how do we order it, which is after all why martini started this thread. Here's how I see it so far:

Tomes:
- Season 1 begins Jan
- Season 2 begins April
- Season 3 begins July
- Season 4 begins Oct

Smaller reads:
- Event read in March
- Summerstock in June (you crazy northerners, having summerstock in winter)
- Underappreciated author in May (Or Feb??) and September
- And then other choices for every remaining month except Dec.

Thoughts?

"having summerstock in winter"

Ha! We did it again, didn't we?

66: Nicely summarized.

I have one suggestion: Can at least two of our monthly reads be "Underappreciated Authors"? I think we already volunteered Rick H. to be one of them.

Ha, you did! :)

It's only to be expected, thea. It does me good, being in a minority.

>68 anna_in_pdx: certainly! How about May and September? I'll edit the above.

Why no December? Too much holidays going on?

Yeah that's what I thought. If there's disagreement, happy to change it.

No worries here:)

December is the month of virtual gift-giving.