April-June 2012 Theme Read: Ancient and Biblical Times

Ancient times start at different times in different parts of the world. In China for instance ancient times started really early, while in Europe it started much later. Officially prehistory ends and ancient times begin when people start writing. But I prefer the more unofficial definition of ancient times, which lets prehistory end when people start farming and settling in cities.

Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome and Ancient Egypt are well known time periods, all with their own dates attached - Egypt the oldest and Rome the youngest of the civilizations. You've also got Roman Britain and Ancient Ireland with the Celts. In most of Europe ancient times can be said to begin around the Bronze age. Biblical times and the ancient Middle East have a lot of overlap, but the ancient Middle East is broader, whereas Biblical times only cover those periods the Bible also covers – and books are often of stories or characters found in the Bible.
Further away from home we’ve got the Ancient Americas – Aztects, Inca’s, Maya’s – all the great civilizations with cities we still have traces from today. And in the Far East we’ve got Ancient China of course, but also Ancient Japan. Plenty of ancient civilizations to choose from, and I’m sure I haven’t mentioned all of them!
Ancient times end when the Middle Ages begin around 500 AD.

Some book suggestions:

Dawn of Empire by Sam Barone (Ancient Mesopotamia)
Abigail’s Story by Ann Burton (Biblical Times)
Aztec by Gary Jennings (Aztecs)
The Chinese Maze Murders by Robert van Gulik (Ancient China)
First Man of Rome by Colleen McCullough (Ancient Rome)
Nefertiti by Michelle Moran (Ancient Egypt)
The House of Death by P.C. Doherty (Ancient Greece)
Wounds of Honour by Anthony Riches (Roman Britain)
Shadow of Gulls by Patricia Finney (Ancient Ireland)

Visit the Quarterly Theme Reads Wiki Page for more information and add your own books for this quarter’s theme!

My Planned Reads:

Death Comes as the End by Agatha Christie (Ancient Egypt)
Gods and Kings by Lynn Austin (Biblical Times)
Lily of the Nile by Stephanie Dray (Ancient Egypt/Ancient Rome)

Death Comes as the End is a re-read for me, but it’s been quite a while. It’s an Agatha Christie set in Ancient Egypt and if I am not mistaken, it’s the only historical mystery she ever wrote.

Gods and Kings was a Kindle freebie and I’ve got no clue what to expect, but it sounded nice when I decided to download it.

Lily of the Nile is the first in a series about Selene, the daughter of Cleopatra. I read Cleopatra's Daughter by Michelle Moran – also about Selene – and that one kind of disappointed me, but then I heard about this book and decided to try it. It has some more fantastical elements in it though, so I’m not entirely sure I’m going to like it.

I hope the books I am planning to read fit this time period correctly. I'm a bit confuzzled about that. :)

Dreaming the Eagle by Manda Scott. The first book in a series based on the life of Boudica, a queen of ancient Briton who led a rebellion against the Roman occupiers (60 A.D.).

Alcestis by Katharine Beutner. Greek mythology. A reworking of the legend of Alcestis.

I also might read...

The Last Warrior Queen by Mary Mackey. Historical fantasy set in ancient Mesopotamia. (3643 B.C.E.)

The Epic of Gilgamesh. Ancient Mesopotamia.

Song of the Crow by Layne Maheu. Biblical fiction - Noah's Ark.

Yep, all of them fit perfectly! Dreaming the Eagle is one I am very curious about - I've heard of this series before and am hesitating about putting it on my TBR list. The two novels set in Ancient Mesopotamia (although, can you really call Gilgamesh a novel? It's kind of like calling the Iliad or Odyssey a novel) are ones I hope you'll get to reading. I'd love to hear about them!

I have a few ideas. 5 years ago my son inherited my mother's library and hundred's of books are on our shelves that I have not read.

Mere was a great fan of anything to do with Egypt and she has God Against the Gods and Return to Thebes. which tell the story of Pharaoh Akhenaten, husband to the beautiful Nefertiti and brother to the young King Tut. These two would tackle the huge TBR pile. There are also a number of non-fiction books on Egypt that I might add to my list.

Also, my son would like me to read his favourite Steven Pressfield book, Gates of Fire, about the Battle of Thermopylae.

I'm planning to read Against a Tide of Years which is a time-travel alt history book and apparently they end up in the bronze age (Ancient Greece). This is a sequel to a book I read last year.

I was also wondering if A Bridge of Birds would work, but I can't find anything that specifically says what time period of China it is.

>2 Samantha_kathy: Hi Samantha, is Lily of the Nile the one by Stephanie Dray? If so, I have read it and really enjoyed it. The "fantastical element" in it isn't too over the top so hopefully you will like it too. I was planning on reading it's sequel Song of the Nile for this topic.

I have also got Zipporah by Marek Halter on my list. It is the story of the wife of Moses.

Last year I read Nefertiti by Michelle Moran and really enjoyed it too, so I have got her book, The Heretic Queen on my list also.

I love this time period so I am looking forward to seeing what you all think of your choices as they will probably find their way into my library bag or my bookshelf!

6> Bridge of Birds is "set in "an Ancient China that never was"" according to the book description, so I think it would fit. It's leaning a bit towards the historical fantasy, but that's fine.

7> Yet, Lily of the Nile is indeed the one by Stephanie Dray. I'm glad the fantastical element is not too over the top.

When it comes to Michelle Moran books, I liked her books less and less (despite them all being good books) with each one. I loved, loved, loved Nefertiti, I thought The Heretic Queen was good, but not as great as Nefertiti, and Cleopatra's Daughter - while a good, basic book - was a bit of a let-down for me. I couldn't really connect or care about Michelle's version of Selene.

I've read and enjoyed a number of the titles you've listed for this period, but thought I'd try some of the titles from Ancient China since I've read nothing from that category. Thanks for the suggestions!!

I just finished reading Venus in Copper by Lindsey Davis which I enjoyed. For those who like historical mysteries, the Marcus Didius Falco series might be worth trying. The first one is Silver Pigs and they take place during the reign of Vespasian. Davis tells us a lot about everyday life in the Roman Empire as she tells us about Falco's adventures.

Some excellent reading is being planned. I have read and recommend Dreaming the Eagle by Manda Scott, Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield and Bridge of Birds by Barry Hughart. All three are great.

I have a huge selection of books to choose from, but the three front runners right now are:

- The Forgotten Legion by Ben Kane - Roman times
- Warrior Daughter by Janet Paisley - Celtic - 1st century AD
- The Dovekeepers by Alice Hoffman - Seige of Masada - 70 AD

So many great books are being mentioned here! I've got the feeling that this theme read is going to add significantly to my TBR list!

Luckily, the Marcus Didius Falco series and The Forgotten Legion and its sequels were already on my TBR list :D.

>4 Samantha_kathy: - Thanks for confirming that my titles are appropriate for the challenge. :) A friend who was a classics major in college has told me that The Epic of Gilgamesh is basically the most amazing thing ever written and frequently berates me for having not read it yet. In fact, she bought me two different translations to encourage me to read it, so maybe I should move that up the list for possible titles for this challenge. :)

I don't think I've ever read anything from this time period. Some of these titles sound marvelous....I can't wait to read everyone's reviews!

4> The Epic of Gilgamesh has been on my TBR list for a while too, I've seen so many people enjoy it. I'll look forward to hearing what you think about it.

I found a few more possibilities on my shelves:
Pontius Pilate
Not Wanted on the Voyage

Actually, Not Wanted on the Voyage by Timothy Findlay was not on my shelf but was recommended to me by my son, the English major.

Racing to finish Promise of the Wolves and Clan of the Cave Bear by the end of the month.

Decision made. I am going to start April with: Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield

17> Gates of Fire sounds really good, ccookie. I've always had a weak spot for the Spartans, mainly because their attitude towards women was remarkably modern in comparison to the other Ancient Greeks of their time.

18>My 29 year old son is a great fan of historical fiction involving battles and war strategy etc. He says that Gates of Fire is the best that he has ever read. I tried it once before and couldn't get into it but I know from past experience that sometimes a second time around makes the difference. And because of the Challenge, I am more highly motivated. I have some health issues that make concentration difficult at times and I am definitely concentrating better lately. Let's hope it goes well? I would love to be able to discuss James favourite book with him.

I have just finished Zipporah, a novel about the wife of Moses. It was a good read, well written and interesting. I have just reserved Sarah at the library. It is written by the same author so hopefully will be good too.

>20 Roro8: Lots of people seem to find the trilogy you're reading disappointing; opinions seem to get worse with each successive book. So it's nice to see a different opinion.

I've never read Marek Halter's books, but I've read two of Ann Burton - Rahab's Story and Abigail's Story - and I found both of them to be very good. So if you find you like these kind of stories, you might try her as well.

Thanks for the suggestion Samantha, I will see if my library has them.

Not fiction, but I thought I'd mention it here anyway: Cooking in Ancient Civilizations by Cathy K. Kaufman. It's both a look at cooking and eating habits in ancient times - specifically Ancient Mesopotamia, Ancient Egypt, Ancient Greece, and Ancient Rome - as well as a cookbook. Yes, a cookbook! It has recipes, adapted to the modern kitchen, for all of these civilizations. And despite the minor adaptations, they are still very authentic. I've only browsed this book a bit, but already I love it. Roasted Duck with Date Stuffing (Ancient Egypt) anyone?

I have started Empress of the Seven Hills by Kate Quinn, known as Empress of Rome here in Australia.

Am about three quarters of the way through Gates of Fire by Pressfield and look forward to finishing it by the end of the month, if not sooner. I was able to have a long conversation with my son, James, about Spartan war tactics and was really happy that I was able to do that. It is certainly not my favourite book, as it is his, but it is obviously well researched, well written and very detailed. I can't imagine the life that these men and their squires lead. I am taken by their discipline and commitment. However, I am saddened as I am any time that I read about war and, what I believe to be, the senseless loss of lives.

I have just finished Empress of the Seven Hills by Kate Quinn
I really enjoyed this book. In fact, it is probably my favorite so far this year!

Vix is a roman soldier, Sabina is a senator's daughter with great connections, Titus is a likable plodder with great family backing and a bright future, Hadrian is the ward of the Emperor, Plotina is the wife of the Emperor. Put all these together and you get a wonderful story with adventure, scheming, revenge, love and hate. I couldn't ask for anything more.

So, I finally read The Epic of Gilgamesh. My thoughts (few as they are!) are over on my thread.

On my way there now!

I finished The Heretic Queen by Michelle Moran. And I would have to agree with Samantha's comment (no 8) in that it is not as good as Nefertiti but still a solid read, with some likable characters and interesting story line.

A couple of days ago I started my May reads for this group.
God Against the Gods by Allen Drury and Pontius Pilate by Paul L. Maier. I am finding them both hard to get into but I will persevere for a few more chapters before I throw in the towel. Has anyone out there read either of these and can tell me they get better?

29> I found all her Egypt books to be solid reads'(haven't read Madame Tussaud yet), but Nefertiti just had something the others didn't. That is the curse of writing a really, really good book; it's really hard to top it. That's also the reason I usually delay reading the sequel to a really good book for a long time - I'm always so afraid it will disappoint!

I've started Death Comes As the End by Agatha Christie.

There's an author's note up front, where she talks about how she came to write a historical novel. But what I noticed most was her statement that it was a tale set in Ancient Egypt, but it could really have been set anywhere, at any time. And that it would not have changed anything. Perhaps she's right - perhaps the mystery could have been set anywhere - but it certainly would have changed how it was solved. Even leaving out crime scene investigative techniques that changed throught time, an Ancient Egyptian will look at the world differently than, say, an Ancient Greek. And they would have approached the mystery differently and thus solved it differently - leading to an entirely different tale. So on this, I do not agree with the great lady of the detective novels.

On another note, I wanted to draw attention to The Eighth Veil by Frederick Ramsay, a mystery set in Biblical times, which is a rarity in historical fiction. It's about a Talmudic scholar in 28 CE Jerusalem coerced by Pontius Pilate to investigate the murder of a servant girl in Herod's palace. I haven't read it, but it sure does sound interesting!

I've just finished reading The Iron Hand of Mars by Lindsey Davis which is the fourth installment in her Marcus Didious Falco series set in the Rome of the Emperor Vespasian. Falco is an informer (think somewhat seedy P.I.) given an assignment by the Emperor to investigate several matters in Germania. There are lots of details about travel, daily life, politics, etc. But the series should probably be read in order beginning with Silver Pigs.

I finished my re-read of Death Comes As the End, the only historical mystery Agatha Christie ever wrote. The mystery was as good as ever, the historical setting of Ancient Egypt less so. Full review is here.

I completed Warrior Daughter by Janet Paisley for this theme. The book tells the story of a legendary woman warrior from the Island of Skye, set in the first century AD. For me, the book read more like a sword and sorcery fantasy than historical fiction which took away from my enjoyment of it.

I completed two books in May.

The Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller, which recently won the Orange Prize for Fiction, was fabulous! It is basically a retelling of The Iliad from the viewpoint of Patroclus. The storytelling is mesmerizing, the writing is exquisite, the characterizations are complex. I loved this book! :)

The other one I read was The Last Warrior Queen by Mary MacKey. Set in ancient Mesopotamia, the style is very true to 1990s fantasy novels. It tells the story of a woman who rises from a low position in a nomadic tribe to serve as a queen of a matriarchal society. It was on okay read, but nothing about it really impressed me.

If anyone likes nonfiction on the subject, several sections of 1491: New revelations of the Americas before Columbus by Charles C. Mann are on Mesoamerica, Andean civilizations, etc. and cover time periods from prehistory through ancient and medieval times in Eurasia. Cities, writing, zero, and other advanced ideas were independently discovered in the Western hemisphere and the cities and various polities were apparently as large as those in Europe and the Mediterranean Near East at the same time period.

I finished Gods and Kings by Lynn Austin, set around 730 BC in ancient Judah. This is a biblical story about King Hezekiah (before he's king, in this book). While it does have a Christian background, you totally forget that when reading it, because it's just a very, very good story that's extremely well written. You can read my full review here, but suffice to say it's one of the best novels set in biblical times I've ever read.

On a side note, I would like to ask your attention to the poll in the next posts. Your answers about when to post the next thread will also give me a guideline for when to post future threads, so let your voice be heard please!

To clarify: if you vote for 'first week of the month' I will be posting the thread this weekend, voting 'second week of the month' will mean I post the thread next weekend, and voting 'third week of the month' means I post the weekend after that, which is about the same time as I posted this thread in the last month of the prehistory thread.

Is the purpose of posting earlier to get ideas of what to read, or to start reading for the theme earlier? I'm not sure. Could you let me know your thoughts?

I voted for an earlier posting so that I would have time to pick a read and, if needed order it from the library. I tend to overbook myself with planned reads, so the earlier I can start planning the better.

44> Roro, the starting date would still be July, but the idea is that people who want to read for this theme will have more time to think about which books, will have time to reserve books at the library, get books dug out from underneath a giant TBR pile - that kind of stuff. It's really just for planning purposes - something I like to do early (hence why I put up the August monthly time period vote already).

A majority is clearly in favor of posting the July-September theme thread this weekend. Guess we have a lot of early planners here in the group! Anyway, I've obliged you all and posted the thread here. Reading for this theme doesn't start until July, but book suggestions and planned reading lists are certainly already welcome!

And of course, this thread will run until the end of this month. I'm reading Lily of the Nile right now for this theme. So far, it's pretty good.

>46 Samantha_kathy: Thanks Samantha, that is what I thought you would say. I am happy to go with the flow so I guess that means I will be super organized as well :-)

I hope you enjoy Lily of the Nile. I am planning on squeezing in Song of the Nile before the end of the month.

At the beginning of June I picked up a couple of books that I had dropped in May:

God Against the Gods by Allen Drury and Pontius Pilate by Paul L. Maier.

I am still finding them both hard to get into but am making better progress than last month.

I just finished Daughters of Rome by Kate Quinn. Another great read by this author. It follows the lives of four women, all related but all very different, through the year of four Emperors. There is heaps of drama and excitement and I enjoyed every page.

I just realized I never told you that I finished Gates of Fire on April 30. I gave it 3.5 stars.

First line:
~ Although extraordinary valor was displayed by the entire corps of Spartans and Thespaians, yet bravest of all was declared the Spartan Dienekes ~

Pressfield did some pretty heavy research about the Spartans and their warfare tactics. I understand it is pretty accurate.

However, reading this just confirms for me the tragedy of war. I can't imagine the life that these men and their squires lead. I am taken by their discipline and commitment. However, I am saddened as I am any time that I read about war and, what I believe to be, the senseless loss of lives. And so many lives were lost at this battle.

I don't think I would read this again but I did enjoy it. (3.5 stars)

full review can be found here:
http://www.librarything.com/work/3251965/reviews/84034294

Song of the Nile by Stephanie Dray is my final read for this quarter's theme. It is the sequel to Lily of the Nile. I enjoyed the novel but found Selene to be very frustrating at times. There is a lot of political intrigue and some traveling around the ancient world. The inclusion of ancient religions and their practices was also really interesting.

I finished Lily of the Nile for this theme read. I'll write a full review later, but suffice to say that I liked it a lot better than Michelle Moran's Cleopatra's Daughter!

I am trying to fit one more in for this quarter and have started The Forgotten Legion by Ben Kane.

I managed to finish The Forgotten Legion by Ben Kane. It was a pretty good historical adventure, and I will be reading the next two in the trilogy at some point.

My final book for this quarter was Alcestis by Katherine Beutner, based on the Greek myth of Alcestis who voluntarily went to the Hades in place of her husband. Beutner retells the myth and expands on what happened to Alcestis during the time she was in Hades (which was really really weird).

I enjoyed Beutner's writing style - she did well at capturing a mythic feel, and the prose is lyrical and evocative. For the most part, it was an enjoyable read. However, there were times when I didn't understand the motivations of the characters which I felt that was crucial to the flow of the story. Therefore, the pacing sometimes felt clunky and sluggish.

I gave the book 3 1/2 Stars. It was good, but I think it would mostly appeal to fans of Greek mythology.

My reads for the quarter (Ancient/Biblical) were:
Song of the Crow by Layne Maheu (3 stars)
The Dovekeepers by Alice Hoffman (2.5)

A bit late, but my full review for Lily of the Nile is here.