SandDune reads 75 in 2019 - Thread 3

Welcome to my third thread of 2019, and to my eighth year doing the 75 Book Challenge. I'm a 58 year old accountant and, after spending most of my career in the City of London, I'm now the Finance Manager of a local charity which provides support to children and adults with learning disabilities. I live about thirty miles north of London with my husband (aka Mr SandDune), who is Assistant Principal at a local secondary school, and our 19 year old son (aka J) who is currently doing A levels. There's also our 7 year old Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Daisy, who tends to feature prominently in my threads.

I'm originally from Wales rather than England, so I do have an interest in all things Welsh (although I can't speak the language - at least only a few words) and I tend to get huffy if people call me English rather than Welsh! I read mainly literary fiction, classics, science-fiction and fantasy, but I have been trying (and enjoying) some crime recently. I tend to avoid horror, chick-lit and thrillers. Last year was a difficult year at times, and I did a lot of rereading, but I want to tackle some more challenging reads in 2019. I belong to a RL book group which has been going since 2000, and I also try to keep up with some of the challenges going on on LT, with varying degrees of success.

All my family are avid readers, although Mr SandDune doesn't get time to read as much as he would like. J has inherited a love of reading science-fiction and fantasy from me and a love of reading history from Mr SandDune so our books are increasingly shared. I read hardbacks, paperbacks, on kindle and listen to audio books particularly when driving or walking the dog. Apart from reading I love travelling, eating out, and going to the theatre, and over the last few years I've been gettting more and more interested in politics and environmental issues.

I didn’t do a very good job of keeping my thread up to date in 2018 - hope to do better in 2019.

I like to start each thread with a famous (or not so famous) painting and this year I’ve chosen to have a seasonal theme. So for April we have the archetypal painting for Spring: 'Primavera’ (1477-1482) by Sandro Botticelli (1445-1510). I spent about 10 months in Florence during my early twenties, so I've seen the original of this one several times in the Uffizi.

Favourite books from 2018:

5 stars:
City of Bohane Kevin Barry
Educated: A Memoir Tara Westover
Frederica Georgette Heyer

4 1/2 stars:
A High Wind in Jamaica Richard Hughes
Eleanor Oliphant is Completely Fine Gail Honeyman
A Tale of Two Cities Charles Dickens
Plainsong Kent Haruf
The Siege Helen Dunmore
Ghost Wall Sarah Moss

Plans for 2019

RL book club:
We meet monthly apart from January and August.
January - no meeting
February - Every Man for Himself Beryl Bainbridge
March - Home Fire Kamila Shamsie
April - Sing, Unburied, Sing Jesmyn Ward
May - Go, Went, Gone Jenny Erpenbeck
June -
July -
August - no meeting
September -
October -
November -
December -

This year we’ll also be reading the Costa Novel Shortlist in April:

The Silence of the Girls Pat Barker
From a Low and Quiet Sea Donal Ryan
The Italian Teacher Tom Rachmann
Normal People Sally Rooney

This year, I am going to try to read more fiction by African writers, to expand my reading horizons a little. Read so far:

Nigeria - The Thing Around your Neck Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
Nigeria - My Sister, the Serial Killer Oyinkan Braithwaite
Ghana - The Hundred Wells of Salaga Ayesha Harruna Attah

Non-Fiction Challenge:
January: The Salt Path, The Trauma Cleaner
February:
March: Stuart: A Life Backwards

American Author Challenge:
January: The Chosen Chaim Potok

This year I’ve got three main goals in life apart from reading. I’ve made progress with each of them already in 2018 and so I’m hopeful that I can take things further in 2019. Firstly, I want to lose weight: I’m two and a half stone down so far and I want to lose another three quarters of a stone. Secondly, I want to improve my fitness. I went from doing virtually no exercise to exercising at least once a week over 2017/2018, and I want to increase that to twice weekly in 2019. Last but not least, on an environmental theme I want to decrease the amount of single-use plastic that I use. I’ve made some progress with this, but there’s a lot more progress to be made.

Read in 2019:
1. The Salt Path Raynor Winn *****
2. The Trauma Cleaner Sarah Krasnostein ****
3. A Darker Shade of Magic V. E. Schwab ***1/2
4. The Thing Around your Neck Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie ****
5. The Chosen Chaim Potok***1/2
6. The Little Snake A. L. Kennedy ****1/2
7. Mrs Gaskell and Me Nell Stevens ***
8. Every Man For Himself Beryl Bainbridge ***1/2
9. The Wall John Lanchester ****1/2
10. My Sister, the Serial Killer Oyinkan Braithwaite ****
11. Normal People Sally Rooney **1/2
12. Home Fire Kamila Shamsie. ****
13. Darktown Thomas Mullen ****
14. The Psychology of Time Travel Kate Mascarenhas **
15. Lanny Max Porter ****
16. Stuart: A Life Backwards Alexander Masters ****
17. The Hundred Wells of Salaga Ayesha Harruna Attah ***
18. From a Low and Quiet Sea Donal Ryan ****1/2
19. The Italian Teacher Tom Rachman ***1/2
20. The Man who would be Kling Adam Roberts **1/2
21. Quiet Girl in a Noisy World Debbie Tung ***1/2
22. The Silence of the Girls Pat Barker ****
23. The Stopping Places: A Journey through Gypsy Britain Damian Le Bas ****
24. Charity Girl Georgette Heyer ***1/2
25. If Cats Disappeared from the World Genki Kawamura ***
26. Gingerbread Helan Oyeyemi **
27. Go, Went, Gone Jenny Erpenbeck ****
28. Memory Lois McMaster Bujold ***1/2
29. A House Full of Daughters Juliet Nicolson ***
30. Wilding Isabella Tree *****
31. The Monstrous Child Francesca Simon ****
32. Book Love Debbie Tung***
33. Case Histories Kate Atkinson
35. Plight of the Living Dead Matt Simon
36. The House at Seas End Elly Griffiths
37. Vallista Steven Brust
38. Agent of Change Sharon Lee Steve Miller
39. Conflict of Honors Sharon Lee Steve Miller
40. Carpe Diem Sharon Lee Steve Miller
41. Plan B Sharon Lee Steve Miller
42. I Dare Sharon Lee Steve Miller
43. Storm Front Jim Butcher ***1/2
44. Sorcerer to the Crown Zen Cho ***1/2
45. Time and Time Again Ben Elton **1/2
46. Europe in Autumn Dave Hutchinson ***1/2
47. The Cut Out Girl Bart van Es ****1/2
48. Why you Should Read Children’s Books, Even though You Are So Old and Wise Katherine Rundell ***
49. The Second Sleep Robert Harris ****
50. Convenience Store Woman Sayaka Murata ***
51. The Magic Toyshop Angela Carter****
52. Welcome to Lagos Chibundu Onuzo ****
53. Something Fresh P.G.Wodehouse ***1/2

Happy new thread Rhian my dear.

March round-up



Summary:

Female authors 2 : Male authors 4
British 3: American 1: Ghanaian 1: Irish 1
Fiction 5: Non-fiction 1:
Audiobooks 4: Paperback 2
Language: English 6

Happy new thread, Rhian.

Happy new one!

Happy new thread, happy April!

Happy new one, Rhian.

>3 SandDune: Happy to see your year goals have made it into April with you. I desperately need to lose weight myself and improve fitness levels. I'm pretty good already at avoiding plastic. One of my absolute pet hates (which you might remember from our KL book jaunt) is the habit here locally of wrapping books in plastic. I am a furtive plastic remover and I would never buy a book these days without seeing the font!

I’m getting even more depressed about Brexit than I was previously after last night’s vote which yet again failed to decide anything, and which seems to have increased the likelihood of our crashing out without a deal. And yesterday I was more stressed than I had been because of a conversation I had with my sister, also a diehard remainer. She’d had a conversation with my mother about Brexit and clarified what I had assumed: that my mother had voted leave. I’d avoided the conversation as I knew I wouldn’t be able to change her mind and it would only make me stressed. What annoyed me was her reasoning: she had voted leave because ’things don’t seem to be the same anymore’! I mean, of course they don’t, she’s 97! Someone who was born in 1842 would have the same age gap as there is between my mother and J (her youngest grandson), and I’m sure would have said exactly the same thing if asked their opinion in 1939 when my Mum was the same age as J is now. I actually had difficulty sleeping last night which I think was due to me being stressed.

Happy New Thread, Rhian. I am sorry about the whole Brexit mess, even from where I sit in Canada. We have our own political issues here, but nothing like Brexit. It would be so unsettling. Political differences within a family can be so unsettling and stressful . My heart goes out to you and yours. I do have a nephew who has been living in the UK finishing up his PhD, and I know the Brexit issue has a been a source of anxiety for him too. He will be finishing his PhD this spring at some point, and it's possible that he may stay in the UK as he may have a job there. But I'm not sure about that. I have not asked him or my sister about exactly what he is doing . He is definitely a Remainer. I was so surprised that he was able to vote in the Brexit vote. Something to do with him being a Commonwealth Citizen and perhaps the fact that he is on a work visa, rather than a student visa.

Happy new thread, Rhian. I'm sorry that your mother's decision to vote Leave caused you such stress, although I can understand it, given our current situation and finding out that people that I do (or did) respect voted for trump in 2016. Would it be fair to say that most older and elderly Britons also voted Leave, for the same reason that your mother gave?

Rupert, Rachael's husband, is also becoming distraught about the Brexit fiasco, and he has openly talked about leaving the UK, including a post on his Facebook timeline last night.

Sorry to hear about the Brexit stress Rhian. I know what you mean about not wanting to even have the conversation with some people.

>5 johnsimpson: >7 BLBera: >8 figsfromthistle: >9 Carmenere: Thanks everyone.

>10 PaulCranswick: I think I'm doing better at losing weight at the moment than reducing plastic! Although I am making my lunch every day and putting it in a reusable lunch box rather than buying something from the supermarket so I suppose that is helping.

>12 vancouverdeb: It's quite strange who got to vote and who didn't. A lot of British citizens resident in the rest of the E.U. didn't, which doesn't really make sense as potentially they are some of the most affected people. My sister lives most of the time in Cyprus, but still has a residence here so was able to vote.

>13 kidzdoc: I was pretty sure my mother would have voted Leave, and I also knew that she wouldn't be persuaded out of her choice, so I deemed it more prudent just not to mention the subject. There was a big dividing line in Brexit vote about age: the older someone was the more likely they were to vote Leave. Among young people twice as many voted Remain but in the older voters it was very much the other way around. But I do think in a vote like this you have to be looking forward to what it's going to be like for younger people. There's a breakdown here:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-vot...

>14 charl08: Mr SandDune says there's no point in worrying about something I can't do anything about but I've never found that a very compelling argument!

Happy new thread, Rhian.

>11 SandDune: I understand your feelings towards your mother.
We felt the same when we found out Frank's mother had voted for a populist party back in 2006.

>15 SandDune: I also see that level of education was very predictive of how one voted, with relatively uneducated people voting Leave, and well educated ones voting Remain.

I see that Theresa May will soon meet with Jeremy Corbyn to try to come up with a compromise package to save Brexit. Um...what took her so long?!

>16 FAMeulstee: My sister has launched a campaign to get her to vote Remain if there ever is another referendum, but I don’t hold out much hope for her chances!

>17 kidzdoc: I think one of the issues re education is that people with lower levels of education will on average be more impacted by the effects of austerity that we have been going through, and many took the chance to put in a protest vote. And also potentially see themselves as more affected by immigration from Eastern Europe in particular. And there is a big difference between old and young about what people feel comfortable with, and so older people do look back. I suppose to an extent that’s inevitable. As Mr SandDune has just said listening to the news about cross-party talks ‘Isn’t it a bit late for that’! She should have been doing this months ago.

>11 SandDune: On Brexit, yes the last vote in parliament was depressing, but its not over yet, and the development yesterday would appear to be leading towards a longer extension and soft Brexit, although I still feel a People's Vote is the only sane and democratic solution (albeit that it will encourage the same bunch of liars as before).

I particularly sympathise over your mother's vote. My mother also voted leave. In our case I and my sisters and our spouses all attempted to change her mind, patiently answering all her questions (she quoted most of the old tropes that were being quoted at the time, all of which were fully answered by anyone concerned about facts). She would not be convinced though, and even now remains convinced that crashing out without a deal will be for the best - completely ignoring how much it will (and already has) cost us all.

Opinion polls now have consistently shown more people in favour of remain than leave for over a year now and the gap is growing. There is no doubt the country has changed its mind, but another campaign of lies could still go awry. The talk of a 1 year Brexit delay is good though because that change in opinion will only intensify, and in early 2020 we will reach the point where demographers predict that there will be more people alive in the country who voted remain in the last referendum than voted leave.

Don't expect Boris to put that one on the side of a bus.

Rhian - I sympathize with your anxiety about Brexit. We have Trump here, and I have had to scale back on my news consumption because it was making me lose sleep as well. Sigh.

Happy New Thread, Rhian.

I love the Botticelli Primavera painting. We've seen it at the Uffizi, too. 10 months in Florence in your 20s - that must have been wonderful.

>11 SandDune: >18 SandDune: sadly Rhian, like your mum, my dad voted Leave. We all tried to reason with him, but to no avail. I think a lot of older people feel very alienated by the change, and by the diversity that exists now, they came from a time when that wasn't on the same scale. Certainly where dad still lived (where we grew up) the Eastern European languages were more commonly heard. But also I think the speed of change is so much faster and more dramatic now, and that has an impact.

I agree with you, in reply to Darryl >17 kidzdoc: that those people have been more affected by austerity, and no one is listening to their concerns.

The leavers I was confounded by, were my immigrant friends, some older, some middle aged, all voted to leave. And although the young canteen workers who had recently come here couldn't vote, they were delighted it was a leave result.

As a member of the multiverse, do you remember as a kid addressing letters: London, England, the world, the planet... etc, I will always include European in my Identity, whatever the f**ked up politicians manage to do in our name.

ETA: and I do wish they would stop saying they are trying to do what the nation asked them to do aagggrr, just over 51% is not 'the Nation'.

Sorry, happy to remove my rant tomorrow.

Happy new thread, Rhian. We are anxiously following Brexit with you, though our own country is a dumpster fire in its own right. Like you I have a parent who is a die-hard Trumper and it is agonizing to perceive such a disconnect between nostalgia/self-interest and inclusivity/the common good. Ugh.

Definitely sympathize with you, Rhian. Agree with Anne and Beth that we are dealing with our own anxiety re: Trump. Kind of, what is this world coming to????

I think one of the problems with the Brexit referendum is that is what couched in terms of change/no change to the industrial wastelands of the North and etc. Given that choice they voted for change not unsurprisingly. I was ambivalent at the time about remain/leave but I do think that the referendum needs to be honoured in spirit (whatever the heck that means).

I also think it is a little bit difficult to point out that the more uneducated pushed Brexit over the line. Everyone's vote is equal and if it wasn't the Labour Party would never have come to power in the first place.

So many people are to blame for the fiasco Theresa May obviously for her hamfisted "negotiating" and for ignoring parliament until it was too tale. David Cameron for saddling us with a referendum the result of which he miscalculated. Jeremy Corbyn for being just as guilty as the Tories of playing party politics with the will of the people and its interests, The DUP for its narrow self-interest and its blackmailing of the rest, the Tory hardliners who basically want all their own way and Parliament for lacking leaders would could have forged a way to resolve the logjam. Also the European team lead by Barmier and co who have been instransigent, hectoring and arrogant throughout and created a good number of Brexiteers along the way.

I have never been as disillusioned in our politicians or political process and fully understand your inability to sleep.

>19 sirfurboy: >20 BLBera: >22 Caroline_McElwee: >23 AMQS: >24 ronincats: There was an article in The Guardian today about how Brexit is damaging the mental health of the nation which I think is very relevant:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/04/anger-and-frustration-how-brexi...

I think this paragraph particularly resonates with how I feel:

The disconnect between what some people feel – more than six million signed the revoke petition – and what it is assumed that everyone feels (they want to leave, now; they voted once and don’t want to say it again), leaves huge swathes of the population with their political views denied, rendered inauthentic. What if you’re in favour of free movement? What if you think sovereignty is a stupid thing to get worked up about? What if you never thought international collaboration on lawmaking was a bad thing? What if you didn’t see it as losing control? You’re not just outside political parties and discourse, you are a non-person, stateless in Brexitland. And if your civic identity is quite central to your sense of self, that’s hard to take.

>25 PaulCranswick: Paul I thought a lot about the point of view that the referendum result needs to be honoured. But I think there are any number of political issues where the majority might hold one opinion but it doesn't stop a lot of people from holding another opinion very strongly. And the more important the issue the more strongly those opinions are held. And I truly believe that Brexit (especially a no-deal Brexit) will be much more detrimental for those who have been left behind economically.

>21 jnwelch: I was there between September 1982 and June 1983, so I went to the Uffizi several times. I did a reasonable amount of travelling round as well: Siena, Bologna and Pisa I visited several times, Rome twice, Venice and Assisi once. Never got any further south than Rome though, and I still haven’t on mainland Italy although I’ve been to Sardinia and Sicily.

>26 SandDune: Great article, Rhian. I did laugh at the comedians last night about Trump and his hatred of windmills.

>26 SandDune: 17,410,742 people voted to leave the EU. The question wasn't about deals or, as has become obvious double deals, between the politicians and the mandarins in Brussels. The Government and the House of Commons have betrayed those 17,410,742 citizens by not leaving the EU by the date stipulated when Article 50 was triggered. There is no other way to say that. The speculation on a No Deal scenario is just that - speculation - and it is scare-mongering of a most pernicious kind. I respect the views of Remainers and I know you have felt very strongly about this all the while - I would have voted Remain had I been in the UK and/or been allowed to vote (why I was disenfranchised just because I was working abroad and sending money back home is beyond me, but I guess Cameron figured I would be more likely to vote Leave - well he was wrong as usual) but the vote was lost.

A Second Referendum is a betrayal of the first. I hope the French kick us out now because it would serve the disgraceful politicians right who have been playing so cavalierly with our futures.

Happy new thread, Rhian. Is any other work being done or is the whole of government tied up in the never ending Brexit stand off? It has been going on so long with no resolution and can understand why you are feeling anxious about it.

>28 BLBera: I was reading something about this this morning. Wind turbines cause cancer? Where did that come from

>29 PaulCranswick: I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one Paul. I hope you’re right about the effects of No Deal not being as damaging as people are saying.

>30 Familyhistorian: I think very little else is being done. Mr SandDune’s school had a talk recently by one of their former pupils who now works in the civil service in the Brexit planning team. Apparently, very large numbers of the people who work in the central civil service departments have been pulled into Brexit planning, either in their own department or by being seconded.

We are going on holiday to Pembrokeshire tomorrow for a week. J is coming with us, at least for the first five days but he may come home Thursday or Friday as he has exams in May so he will need to do some revision. It took him forever to get the holiday sorted out from Tesco: for a large company it doesn’t seem to be very organised at that sort of thing (not at his shop anyway) and it took him ages to get sorted out. I think his shop has got itself in a bit of a vicious circle. Apparently they’re struggling to recruit staff so they’are reluctant to agree people’s holiday as they can’t staff it. And that will upset their staff who will move elsewhere eventually - there are lots of similar jobs nearby and we have an international airport on the doorstep with lots more jobs (the reason that they’re struggling to recruit staff in the first place).

>32 SandDune: Have a lovely holiday in Pembrokeshire, Rhian. I hope the weather stays good for you. Please give my best wishes to Mr.SandDune and J. Seems an age ago that both our families had that delightful Vietnamese meal in Kuala Lumpur.

>29 PaulCranswick: Not wanting to turn Rhian's thread into a political battleground, so happy to take this to my thread or one of the Brexit discussion threads (see below), but I would just make a couple of quick observations first:

I do not see a *delay* to Brexit as any kind of betrayal. The literature in the referendum campaign was very clear there was no absolute date when Brexit would happen. It stated quite clearly that the article 50 process would take at least 2 years but could be extended. Government literature suggested leaving will take 10 years (that may be an underestimate but it is in the ball park). Vote leave literature said that we would not rush into an exit. It stated we might not enact article 50 at all and if we did, it would not be rushed as leaving was complex. People who are claiming that a *delay* in Brexit is a betrayal are making mischief.

You can argue that revoking article 50 is a betrayal of that small majority, garnered in an advisory referendum, where the leave side committed multiple election offences and the largest overspend in British political history, such that if it had not been advisory, the referendum would be ordered to be re-run by the courts.

You *can* argue that a "revoke" is a betrayal (despite my obvious feelings about the campaign of lies, fear and smear that led us here) because a majority did vote to leave and if we revoke, then parliament will have chosen to ignore that advisory referendum. You can also argue that parliament would be right to ignore that referendum, but it would be perfectly respectable to argue that those people are betrayed in such a scenario.

One cannot argue that a delay is a betrayal though. Moreover I do not think it would be possible to argue that a people's vote on the deal is a betrayal. If you put a final deal - a visible and nailed down Brexit option - to the people to assent to or reject, and if the people rejected that deal and chose instead to retain the current terms, that could not be a betrayal of the people. It cannot be a betrayal because the will of the people cannot betray the will of the people.

*

On why you were disenfranchised - that was actually a victory for the vote leave side in parliament. They wished to exclude ex-pats because they were actually more likely to vote remain (European based Britons being the most affected by a vote to leave and a loss to their free movement rights).

If you want to discuss further, LT has two active Brexit threads here:

https://www.librarything.com/topic/305150

and here:

https://www.librarything.com/topic/298715

>34 sirfurboy: One thing we do agree on Sir F is in not making Rhian's thread a battleground on this issue as she is disenchanted enough by the whole thing.

I would clarify that I am not a Brexiteer and I would have voted Remain. I am just a bit peeved that Parliament and the ineffectual government is thwarting the result of the referendum because that is how it seems and is being portrayed in the media here.

There is no doubt that the Leavers told lies during the campaign but they were not alone in this and the exaggeration of cheating in the campaign is largely reserved to those who lost the vote. Whilst certainly not condoning their opinions generally this is an example of the opposite view from the Huffington Post. Certainly slanted and exaggerated too but not entirely untrue either.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matthew-ellery/leave-lies-remainers-need_b_1219...

I don't want to labour this but why would the referendum question be :

Yes to the deal
or Stay in the EU?

That has been decided; only the form of leaving remains to be determined upon.

I respect your learned opinions on this matter just as I do Rhians' and I think we all share frustration at the mess the politicians have landed us into. We won't agree as your view on Remain is as entrenched as my view of democracy is.

I worked in the mid 1980s for Tony Benn when he campaigned in Chesterfield and a more ardent Brexiteer, I cannot imagine. I didn't share his views on the issue then but I must say that he is right about the unelected in Brussels usurping our sovereignty without our will. We entered the EEC / Common Market and were dragged into Union without the people ever having a say in the matter. I regret that the Right have usurped this issue as their own as it should cut across party lines (probably still does as I am sure Corbyn is a Brexiteer) but one of the things that would have probably forced me to vote Remain would have been sharing a platform with the bigots on the right.

It shows the difficulty of the issue. I wouldn't want to end free movement of people - it is wonderful thing that the peoples of Europe can mix freely but I do want the UK to be free to make its own trade deals. I wouldn't want to end or reduce the increased protection to workers and the environment that some of the agreed regulations have brought us all but I still don't like Brussels deciding, in any part upon our laws as has been increasingly the case.

I would have stayed in and wanted our politicians to fight for a better Europe but Cameron in his infinite wisdom called that blasted referendum.

>35 PaulCranswick: I know you would have voted Remain, Paul. I did not mean to imply otherwise. I was just arguing about what can and cannot be considered to be a "betrayal". It is a word being used often, but not accurately.

The point is not just the lies that were told, it is that election law was broken. The largest election overspend in political history, foreign influence and criminality still under investigation by the police (with one conviction already). Vote leave cynically announced on March 29 (what would have been Brexit day) that they were not pursuing their appeal against the breaches of law, and accepting responsibility that would - if the referendum had been legally binding - have ensured the courts ordered a re-run.

It is against that background that, of course, remain should be on the ballot paper. Because the people have *not* decided that. Moreover no one ever argued that we should leave without a deal, and there is no majority for that.

See: https://twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/1113547733300842497

Parliament, which is the sovereign body in the UK democracy, has repeatedly ruled out no deal (with good reason btw.) Parliament also is not very clear as to what Brexit would be acceptable (reflecting the country on that). When it comes up with a version of Brexit that would be acceptable, we should certainly put that to the people as "the best deal that this country can get" with the option to turn it down (i.e. remain on current terms).

If I decide to move house I make a decision to move. I then go about finding a house, and when I find one, I go through the negotiation and the legal checks and everything else, but at the end of the day, I have a choice. Do I accept the deal on this house or do I reject it? If I reject it, I do not make myself homeless, I retain the current arrangement.

Of course, that analogy is strained. I can always go into the market again, and an option to remain looks like a settled decision to remain forever. It need not be. I would be perfectly content with a condition on the option to remain, that in the event we chose to remain, we would establish a Royal Commission with the responsibility to establish whether there is any kind of Brexit that the people and parliament would support. It need not be the end of the matter forever -although my own view is that there is, in fact, no version of Brexit that ever did command a majority.

Look at your own views: you would like the end of some things and not others. To be honest, we would be more likely to get those as opt outs within the EU than as a third country outside. Others have different lists of things they want and don't want.

ETA: Corbyn is very frustrating on Brexit, but despite my frustrations, I believe he is not a Brexiteer. He recognises that the EU changed with the inclusion of the social chapter. It now ensures worker rights, environmental standards and also Free Movement is really a fundamental social right that ought to be very much in tune with views of social justice.

Corbyn's position is nuanced, but I believe he wants either "remain and reform" or "leave, reform, rejoin".

>36 sirfurboy: The Leavers very inconveniently went and won the referendum and what a dirty fight it was but certainly not all on one side.

Both sides were allowed to spend GBP7 million on campaigning and undoubtedly Leave broke those rules. The Government also flouted the rules shamelessly by spending GBP9 million sending a remain leaflet to every home in the country and if that was according to the rules then I'm a Frenchman (I'm not).

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35980571

You are right in that the Referendum was not per se legally binding and that Parliament has supremacy but I would argue that the Referendum is politically binding and cannot be conveniently ignored because the intelligentsia didn't quite like the result of it.

On a Second referendum why not follow up with maybe a list of 5 leave options and get the country to vote? Which option gets the most votes is what we try to do (Europe may never let us decide after all). Remain/Leave was decided.

What would you have changed about the EU, Sir F, had we or were we to have stayed? Successive British Governments never did very well at fighting their corner. Did you agree with the move towards further European integration and an eventual United States of Europe? Did you want the Euro (I originally did by the way)?

On Corbyn, his position on Europe is clearly ambivalent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTXpaKfbSlc

>37 PaulCranswick: I will not say more on the spending here. happy to do so on my thread or one of the other threads I pointed to.

This deserves some thought thought though:

"why not follow up with maybe a list of 5 leave options"

The most basic reason as to why not is because it would take forever to get through the electoral commission! We are bad at referenda, but a 5 option consultation? Even a three way question of "(1) leave on the deal", "(2) leave on no deal" or "(3) remain" is so problematic that few think it would happen (but would, of course, fully answer the concerns of anyone who felt one option was being unfairly omitted).

Does everyone pick just one of the five? In that case, you favour the options unlike the others. for instance, what if the options are:

1. Norway (Single market, no customs union)
2. Single Market + customs union
3. Customs union only
4. Switzerland
5. No deal.

In this case you pretty much ensure no deal, even though all polling shows that only about 40% of the country would accept no deal (and that number is ridiculously high btw!). The problem being you have split all the moderates among the other options.

So maybe you use STV or AV, or a condorcet compliant system. Which one do you use? Are people convinced of the legitimacy? Although condorcet compliant methods should find the most acceptable alternative, people will find them hard to understand, and may attempt to game the system with unpredictable results. For instance, if you rank all options you would prefer, would your most preferred option have done better had you decided not to rank some of the others? How do you express your desire to veto one option?

The complexity of that voting might lead to discontent by those who do not understand it. (E.g. people might say "how is it option 2 won, when more people voted 5 and 1 as a first choice?").

Another issue - if none of the five options are remain, then you have just removed the first choice of probably the largest voting bloc of all. If you are going to bring fairness in now, you would need to allow *all* valid options to be considered and ranked.

*

Successive British governments actually did very well fighting our corner. The British had opt outs from all kinds of things. Margaret Thatcher's will prevailed in the establishment of the single market. The principle of subsidiarity was a British innovation in the treaties that has, since it was adopted, ensured that decisions are always taken at a state level when they can be. Britain very successfully negotiated other states protectionism away to secure trade deals that benefited the UK market. The narrative that Britain was unsuccessful in Europe is wrong. We did very well in Europe. We had an exemption from "ever closer union" although I never had a huge problem with that.

The euro: I was for the idea at first, but perhaps you recall the concerns at the time that the convergence criteria were being fudged. As a consequence I took the view that we should not join, and I was glad when we didn't.

Very interesting talk here about Brexit, both pros and cons. American politics are also a mess right now. Lots of talk and controversy, no solutions. Rhian, I think the best thing you can do is enjoy your vacation! Relax and read some books that take you to a happy place...

>39 Donna828: Well said, Donna. A break from Brexit is very much the tonic needed.

Oh, Rhian, a Pembrokeshire holiday sounds absolutely wonderful. Enjoy! Hope the weather is wonderful. I know the views will be.

Whereabouts in Pembrokeshire are you going? Sounds like a good chance to get away from things :)

Hi Rhian my dear, hope you have a lovely holiday in Pembrokeshire, we loved our time in this neck of the woods, sending love and hugs dear friend.

>37 PaulCranswick: >38 sirfurboy: For my own peace of mind I’ve decided to give up Brexit for the week. So apologies for not answering in detail.

>39 Donna828: >40 PaulCranswick: >41 AMQS: >42 sirfurboy: >43 johnsimpson: We’ve arrived in Pembrokeshire, and our cottage is lovely. We’ve staying in Newport, which is a small village which we last visited in 2001 when J was a baby. We’ve had a lovely walk along the coastal path today, as the weather’s been good. I’m sitting in the pub writing this while Mr SandDune and J play pool. Newport seems very well supplied with nice pubs: yesterday’s one had people speaking Welsh on the table next to us, which is always nice.

Have a lovely holiday Rhan.

>44 SandDune: Ah, North Pembrokeshire. Not too far from me then - you are almost in Ceredigion there. I am glad the weather is good for you.

Enjoy your holiday, Rhian. It sounds relaxing.

Have a great holiday, Rhian!

Sounds lovely Rhian - enjoy the break.

>46 sirfurboy: We will be in Ceredigion tomorrow as we’ll be going to explore around Cardigan. I don’t really know the area between say Newport and Aberystwyth at all, although apparently when I was a child my family nearly moved to Aberaeron.

>45 Caroline_McElwee: >47 lauralkeet: >48 kidzdoc: >49 charl08: One thing I am really enjoying is that I am walking up hills much more easily! I suppose I’ve lost 25% of my body weight and I’ve been doing more exercise this past year but it’s still taken me by surprise what a difference it has made. I’m not having to stop while I get my breath back climbing a hill any more!

>50 SandDune: That must be such an amazing feeling to be able to walk/climb hills and not be slowed down by needing to stop and catch your breath. Well done you!

What Paws said, Rhian. How great that you can walk up hills that much more easily. You've obviously made it a lot more comfortable for your body.

>50 SandDune: In that case I would recommend stopping at Mwnt - although this recommendation may not have found you in time!

18. A Low and Quiet Sea Donal Ryan ****1/2



My second read of the Costa shortlisted novels and infinitely preferable (in my opinion) to Normal People. At first glance this is a patchwork of seemingly unconnected stories. Oh no, I thought, not another book that calls itself a novel that is not a novel at all (All That Man Is really annoyed me in that respect), but this eventually tied itself together in a satisfying and unexpected way.

While From a Low and Quiet Sea is largely set in Ireland, it starts a continent away, as Farouk plans his escape from an increasing lawless Syria with his wife and children. After the heartbreaking conclusion of this section, the location and tone changes and the narrative follows Lampy, a young man in his early twenties in the West of Ireland, who is coming to terms with his first serious heartbreak and the fact that his life doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Then we have John, an older man seemingly in the confessional, who as a somewhat shady (and thoroughly unpleasant) wheeler-dealer seems to have a lot to confess. And as I have said, the final segment brings everything together beautifully.

This is a lyrical and thoughtful book, which I highly recommend.

Thanks for the review of From a Low and Quiet Sea, Rhian. I have it in a TBR pile and I need to get to it. I'm glad to hear that your holiday is going so well.

>50 SandDune: It is a part of the world that interests me too, Rhian. I almost went to Aberystwyth University (I put them 2nd on list when I filled in the UCCA forms many many moons ago) and of course Sir F and Calm are both from the area.

Glad to see you have so much more energy having reduced your weight so impressively. I must follow your example.

Very good review of the Donal Ryan book.

Here's an example of how much better the weather has been this year than last Easter when we were in Pembrokeshire. We decided to go to St David's again on Monday as J hadn't been with us when we visited last year. These two sets of photos are taken pretty much at the same spot:









Last year was more dramatic but it was pleasanter walking around in the sun!

>51 PawsforThought: >52 jnwelch: >53 sirfurboy: >56 PaulCranswick: Being fitter has taken me somewhat by surprise. We are staying on the edge of Newport, on a hill above the town, and on the first evening when Mr SandDune suggested that we walk down to get something to eat I was a little dubious - not because it's a long way but because of the climb back up. But as it turned out I had no problems at all. And today we've been for a 10 mile walk along the ridge of the Preseli Hills which I wouldn't have attempted last year. According to the walk book there was an overall climb of about 1200 feet along the walk which I would have struggled with. But I'm still standing!

Edited to add: ending today on 26,000 steps and 127 staircases climbed according to my Fitbit.

>53 sirfurboy: We never got to Mwnt I'm afraid. As it turned out the weather was wetter yesterday morning and so we stayed in and played a board game, and didn't get any further than Cardigan in the afternoon.

Here's Daisy doing what she loves doing best in all the world: fetching sticks from the sea...

>50 SandDune: yay, that's great news Rhian.

>57 SandDune: Lovely photos.

>59 SandDune: Daisy-Joy.

I'm delighted to see you're enjoying the holiday, especially the more physical aspects. The contrast in those photos is incredible. And I love seeing Daisy's happy frolicking.

Your holiday sounds lovely, Rhian. Thanks for the pics.

And here's another nice photo of J and Daisy (which he gave me permission to post on the grounds that you couldn't see his face. We were having a picnic on the banks of this stream in a lovely little village called Nevern about a mile or so outside Newport. J was very happy as it had the scant remains of a castle and for some reason he finds extremely ruined castles fascinating.



This afternoon we returned to St. David's for a boat trip around the island of Ramsey. A little early in the season for seabirds nesting but we did see some birds and a fair few seals.

J's colours match the dog!

You are just around the corner from Pentre Ifan thee too.

>58 SandDune: That is an impressive number of steps, Rhian.

Lovely photos.

Looks like you are having great weather for your holiday from your nice sunshiny photos, Rhian. Wonderful that you feel much fitter after your weight loss, that is incentive to keep on the right path!

>63 SandDune: Love the tete-a-tete.

Hi Rhian!

I’m way behind on your thread(s).

From your previous thread: Belated congrats on your 10th Thingaversary. Wonderful signs for the protest march, and I, too like the Pollocks for Brexit sign.

>11 SandDune: I can’t imagine the stress of Brexit but do understand the political gulf between family members over a polarizing issue – my sister and her husband voted for the orange idiot and I’m a straight-ticket Democrat. We don’t talk about it. At all.

Your holiday sounds wonderful. Thanks for sharing the photos.

>60 Caroline_McElwee: >61 lauralkeet: >62 BLBera: >64 sirfurboy: >65 PaulCranswick: >66 Familyhistorian: >67 Caroline_McElwee: >68 karenmarie: Well we're back from Pembrokeshire, although I could have happily stayed there another week. Such a lot of things to do. I'd particularly like to go back a little later in the year to the island of Skomer, which is a little further south than Ramsey Island that we visited: there are about 6,000 breeding pairs of puffins on Skomer and I would very much like to see them.

Our last meal out together on Thursday was very Welsh: a starter made of cockles and laverbread served with bacon on toasted bread. For those not familiar with laverbread, it isn't bread at all but seaweed, and is a traditional Welsh dish, although something of a minority taste to be honest. I never been that keen on it in the past, but the way they cooked it in the restaurant was delicious. I always have liked cockles though, when I was small I would always insist on getting a little pot of cockles from the market in Swansea if we went shopping there.

J came back a day early on Friday as he was working on Saturday and we couldn't really guarantee that we would get him home in time. Not a great train trip - his train broke down and he ended up getting home three hours later than expected,. The only bonus is that he should get his money back for the trip because of the length of the delay.

Happy new thread!
Your trip looks like a great time!

Your trip does look wonderful! Marina caught me googling Newport and flatly told me I have a problem. I can't help it - I'm in love. We stayed two nights in Little Haven for the sole purpose of visiting Skomer Island, which it ended up we couldn't do. We had sort of decided we might skip it, but then the morning of we were told that the boat wouldn't run because it was too windy. Not that I need a reason to go back...

Sorry J's journey home was so rough.

19. The Italian Teacher Tom Rachman ***



In 1950's Rome 5 year old Charles, nicknamed Pinch, worships his father, Bear Bavinsky, one of the iconic artists of the mid-twentieth century. But while the egotistical Bear's art prospers, that of his wife Natalie, an accomplished potter, flounders. Pinch grows up not fitting in, not into the American school that he attends where the other children and the productsof a country that he has never visited, and not into the gangs of Italian children playing on the street. And as Pinch grows up and his father abandons Natalie for a succession of new wives and new children, Charles can never get over his desire for his father's approval, a desire that ends up ruling his life. In a life that travels from Rome to London to Canada and back to Rome, Charles struggles with relationships and career, and returns over and over again to try to win his father's approval ....

This wasn't a cheerful book, and I can't honestly say that I enjoyed it hugely, although I do appreciate that it was well written. It has a lot to say about the modern art world, so if that's your thing then you may find it more appealing. But above all it seemed a portrait of a wasted life, and I'm certainly not going to rush out to buy anything else by Tom Rachman.

>72 SandDune: Well the cover is beautiful Rhian. Shame the contents weren't up to snuff.

20. The Man Who Would be Kling Adam Roberts **1/2



Rudyard Kipling wrote a story 'The Man Who Would be King': I've never read that one but I have seen the 1975 film with Sean Connery and Michael Caine which strongly influences this book. But rather than the Afghanistan in the time of the British Empire it's a near future Afghanistan where a strange zone has developed which affects both mechanical and biological systems. Nobody has returned out of it alive. Until, that is, two travellers decide that it is the humanity of previous explorers that is the problem, and that if they can persuade the zone that they are not human then all will be well.

As a pastiche of 'The Man who Would be King' this works quite well. There are also lot of references for the general sci-fi fan, with numerous Star Trek references, and it apparently also pays homage to Roadside Picnic (but I've never read this one so can't comment). But I had absolutely no idea what was going on outside this. I've really enjoyed some of Adam Roberts other works, but this wasn't one of his better ones. And definitely gets the prize for worst cover too ...

We had our RL Book Group's discussion of the Costa Shortlist last night. My final assessment puts them in the following order:

A Low and Quiet Sea Donal Ryan
The Silence of the Girls Pat Barker
The Italian Teacher Tom Rachman
Normal People Sally Rooney

With the first two heads and shoulders above the second two. The general consensus was the The Silence of the Girls should have won. Feelings on Normal People were mixed but nobody enjoyed The Italian Teacher, several people didn't even finish it!

>75 SandDune: I enjoyed From a Low and Quiet Sea, and, after Rachael's glowing recommendation of it, I look forward to reading Normal People soon.

>70 ChelleBearss: Yes, we had a great time thanks.

>71 AMQS: I do like puffins. I have seen them before in Scotland, but never on Skomer as we've never been in the area at the right time of year.



Newport is a lovely little village, if ever you're back in the vicinity ...

>73 Caroline_McElwee: It is very colourful isn't it?

>76 kidzdoc: I'll be interested to see what you think of Normal people. It's not one that I would have automatically suggested to you ...

>63 SandDune: How nice of him to give permission! I am generally careful not to post pics of M unless he wants them posted, so I get fewer of him up. IL can't complain and D loves being posted, even when I think it's an unflattering pic, lol.

We’ve got a fairly quiet four day weekend planned (Good Friday and Easter Monday are bank holidays in the U.K.). We’re going out with friends tomorrow night but apart from that haven’t got much planned. Unfortunately, Mr SandDune has strained his Achilles’ tendon, and so is not walking as well as he was. He had enrolled on a 0 to 10k running course with the local running club and was getting on really well, but that has now had to be abandoned. After much protest, he went to the local minor injuries clinic on Wednesday, and they have confirmed that it is his Achilles‘ tendon. There’s not much that can be done about it, but at least they have given him advice on what he should and shouldn’t be doing with it, and a list of exercises to do. J is also busy as he has his AS levels in May and is revising.

>79 SandDune: Ouch. Sympathy to Mr SD.

Hope you have a nice relaxing weekend: looking at the traffic reports, I think I won't be heading far from home!

21.Quiet Girl in a Noisy world Debbie Tung

Autobiographical graphic novel about growing up as an introvert. As an introvert myself some parts really resonated:

Ouch. I'm sorry to hear about your husband's strained Achilles tendon, Rhian.

Happy Easter weekend, Rhian.

>81 SandDune: That book looks interesting. I am not sure if I will pick it up as it looks like it would be better on paper, and I read so much on a kindle now. However I will keep my eye out for it. I can relate somewhat too.

Ooh, I've been missing in action for a good couple of weeks. not good. I just seem to have been very busy in the evening and weekends for the last couple of weeks so not much time to devote to LT (or reading for that matter). Mr SandDune was on a course in Prague last weekend, and I had a strategy day at work on the Saturday so last weekend was pretty busy. One of the advantages of his school teaching the International Baccalaureate is that the courses he needs to attend often tend to be in various more interesting European locations, rather than Birmingham or Nottingham or Bristol which is where mine tend to be. So he got to go to Prague and I got to spend Saturday at my normal place of work in Welwyn Garden City, which didn't seem quite fair to me. And then, as he wasn't home until Sunday evening the weekend chores fell wholly to me and I was pretty busy on Sunday. One of the disadvantages of teaching in an International Baccalaureate school occurs this weekend though, as he has to work this Monday when virtually every other school in the country will be closed as it is a bank holiday. But being an international qualification they are not a respect of British Bank Holidays and have exams on that day.

We have had local elections here yesterday and I went along with J to vote - he was voting for the first time. These are the elections for county, district and town council, although we only had the latter two in our area. As I'd decided to vote Green I was disappointed to see that I had no Green candidates in my ward for either the town or district election, but I was pleased to see that two Green candidates for the district council were elected for the first time. I did feel quite old - someone who was in J's year at school was standing as a Green candidate and the (slightly) older brother of someone he used to be at school with was elected as a Conservative councillor!

This weekend we are going to collect a new car (pretty much the same as our old car but new) and I have to read Go, Went, Gone as it is Book club here on Tuesday and I haven't read the book yet!

>80 charl08: >82 kidzdoc: Thanks for the sympathy for Mr SandDune. He is fine now as long as he doesn't run. But J has now also hurt his ankle. He tripped over Daisy on the stairs on Wednesday (he does admit that he wasn't really paying a lot of attention to what he was doing) and fell and sprained his ankle. I've needed to drive him to college for the last couple of days. He can walk around OK for short distances but it's quite a longish walk from our house to the station for him to catch his train, and another longish walk at the other side.

>83 Ameise1: Thanks Barbara - I hope you had a good Easter! I managed to avoid eating too many Easter eggs!

>84 sirfurboy: I'm actually going back more to paper books these days, although I listen to a lot of audio as well.

I loved Go, Went, Gone, Rhian. I hope you enjoy it.

Have a more relaxing weekend this week!

I read a little bit about the local elections in the UK this week. Will the losses suffered by the Labour and Conservative parties have any effect on the current Brexit negotations? (I suspect not.)

Another thumbs up for Go, Went, Gone.

I hope that your gimpy guys are doing better this weekend.

>88 kidzdoc: Apologies Darryl for not getting back to you sooner on your query. For the last couple of weeks I have been rather overtaken by the dire environmental news that seems to have been coming at us every couple of days or so. Things like this:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/06/human-society-under-urgent-t...

I've been having a serious think about my own lifestyle and what changes I can make and not getting a lot of reading done ...

Anyway, in answer to your question about U.K. politics it is a complete and utter mess at the moment. Local elections are supposedly fought on local issues, but in practice they act as a barometer for the popularity (or otherwise) of whatever party is in power. If you have an unpopular Conservative government in power than you would normally expect Labour to do well in the local elections. What actually happened was that while the Conservatives did abysmally, Labour also did pretty badly and had a net loss of seats. The winners on the night were the Liberal Democrat's, the Greens (both strongly Remain) and independents.

And now we've having the European Elections after all (when you're over here). At the moment the polls are being led by the Brexit party which is Nigel Farage's baby and was only formed a month or so ago. There was a poll today in which Conservatives were fifth, with 10% of the vote, after the Brexit party, Labour, the Liberal Democrats and the Greens. So it's all as clear as mud, which incidentally is what I'd like to throw at Nigel Farage, who is a man that I truly detest.

>89 SandDune: "which incidentally is what I'd like to throw at Nigel Farage, who is a man that I truly detest."

Hear, hear.

Nigel Farage's Brexit party (actually a registered company that does not allow open membership) is funded by millions of pounds of shady money, donated in deliberately non attributable ways. The party has no policies, refuses to release funding details, and is fielding candidates carefully chosen from the establishment elite.

UKIP, Farage's previous party, funded by the same dark sources until recently, has been abandoned by Farage because - in his drive to appear anti elite, he allowed members to join, generate and vote on policy. That came back to haunt him when the party lurched to the extreme right. Now he hopes to get the same people to vote for him on the same false manifesto, whilst carefully ensuring that no one can topple him from power.

And then, after his 34th question time appearance and yet another BBC interview - but one that went badly wrong for him when someone had the audacity to ask him about his policies, Farage declared war on the BBC, calling it "the enemy".

I wonder, in what way does this man not look like a Poundland dictator?

>90 sirfurboy: Farage declared war on the BBC, calling it "the enemy".
That sounds familiar to those of us across the pond. He-who-shall-not-be-named calls the media "the enemy of the people." Truly awful.

I've finally reached my target weight of 9 stone (126 pounds) today (actually 8 stone 12, so I'm two pounds below it.) I've gone from 11 stone 13 to 8 stone 12, so a weight loss of 3 stone 1 pound in total. That's a quarter of my body weight, so I’m feeling pretty pleased with myself!

Here are before and after pictures:

>92 SandDune: You look amazing, and I bet you feel it too! Well done! That's a very impressive weight loss.

>92 SandDune: Good going!

Rhian, that's a wonderful achievement, congratulations. You look great. Now you can enjoy buying that new wardrobe.

>92 SandDune: That is a great accomplishment, Rhian, you look so happy at the last picture.

Hurrah for you, Rhian, and all the hard work it took to bring it about!

I offered my congratulations on Facebook, but it bears repeating. Well done Rhian! Have fun clothes shopping.

>92 SandDune: Congratulations. Well done.

Congrats on reaching your goal! You are fabulous!

>89 SandDune: That is a distressing article, Rhian. I need to learn more about the global effects of climate change, and what I can do as an individual to minimize my footprint.

Luci had mentioned that the elections for the European Parliament take place next week. I'm shocked that Nigel Farage's party is leading the way in the UK. In addition to being very confused about the Brexit process I'm considerably more befuddled about Labour's stance, and why the party continues to support Jeremy Corbyn, who seems to refuse to follow the wishes of his constituents.

Fantastic job on your weight loss! I want to hear more about what you did to accomplish your goal.

Hi Rhian.

I join Darryl in sending accolades to you regarding your weight loss!

>90 sirfurboy: Well not strictly true, Sir F, it only has one policy and an unachievable one at that given the make up of parliament.

I am surprised at his success in the polls but only a little as it indicates that support for his brand of Brexit sits at about a third of the electorate. He is not a serious politician but the paralysis of the main parties are allowing him space to move into. Parallels with Weimar Germany anyone?

>92 SandDune: Well done, Rhian - I share in the the sending of praises tinged with a little jealousy as I am miles away from reducing my own weight!

Congrats on your weight loss! You look great!

>93 PawsforThought: >94 quondame: >95 Caroline_McElwee: >96 FAMeulstee: >97 ronincats: >98 lauralkeet: >99 sirfurboy: >100 scaifea: >101 kidzdoc: >102 Whisper1: >103 PaulCranswick: >104 ChelleBearss: Many thanks for the congratulations everyone. I'm certainly feeling pleased with myself at the moment! Yesterday, I took my rings to the jewellers to be resized after my engagement ring nearly fell off the day before. I'd had them resized upwards over the years (twice I think) so it was nice to be going the other way.

>87 BLBera: I did enjoy Go, Went, Gone very much, and I 'm going to be looking out for other books by Jenny Erpenbck. Still need to write the review...

>101 kidzdoc: I think the Labour Party has really messed this up. I've been a Labour supporter since the 1980's - I've voted tactically for other parties at time, but always with the intention of trying to ensure a Labour government, but I can't vote for them at the moment. Part of the problem that they have I think, is that their core vote has changed. U.K. voting patterns used to be very class based: basically if you were working class you tended to vote Labour and if you were middle class you tended to vote Conservative. Obviously, not a hard and fast rule, but a very strong trend. Nowadays, the best predictor of someone's voting pattern is age and educational level, rather than class. If you are young and more educated the tendency over recent elections is to vote Labour, while being older and less educated is a predictor of voting Conservative. And I think this change has left Labour with two distinct groups which it is trying to satisfy (and failing miserably at the moment). The older industrial Labour voting towns which form one part of Labour's core base are very pro-Brexit: the younger voters who form the other part of its base tend to be much more pro-Remain. But at the moment they seem to be alienating both sides.

>90 sirfurboy: >91 lauralkeet: I found the Milkshake discussions this morning quite amusing. MacDonalds (in Edinburgh, I think - anyway next to a Farage rally) announced that the police had requested that they stop selling Milkshakes for the duration. (There has been a bit of a spate of milkshake throwing at right wing candidates). And then Burger King tweeted that it was selling milkshakes all weekend. And then various other people got very upset and said that Burger King was inciting violence ...

https://www.indy100.com/article/burger-king-denies-endorsing-violence-against-ni...

>107 SandDune: Now that is funny. Inciting violence by selling milkshake!

Regarding the pro Brexit Labour members in industrial areas, Labour's mistake, in my opinion, has been not to demonstrate leadership and make the case to these people that they would be better off in the EU. All the analysis is quite clear on that, but Labour is playing both ends against the middle because they don't want to lead on this. That is haunting them now.

In attempting not to betray either side of the party, they have ended up betraying both.

>106 SandDune: Thanks for that explanation, Rhian. We're seeing a somewhat similar, but not yet as serious, divide in the Democratic Party in the US. Several of the newest members of Congress, particularly Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC), Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar, are outspoken, compassionate and highly intelligent activists who, unlike most previous freshmen congressmen, are speaking their minds and advocating for their beliefs and for the impeachment of trump, whereas Nancy Pelosi and other seasoned and entrenched fossils members of the Democratic Party are endorsing bipartisanship and a more measured approach to trump and the Republican Party. I love what these three women and others like them are bringing to the table, and I hope that Democratic voters rally behind them and choose more candidates like them. The future of this fragile and deeply flawed democracy is at stake, and this is no time for compromise or conciliation with those who want to preserve their own privilege, even if it means bankrupting or restricting the rights of future generations.

Hi Rhian!

>85 SandDune: I have to read Go, Went, Gone as it is Book club here on Tuesday and I haven't read the book yet! That’s a familiar refrain – I always ‘til about 3 weeks before book club to read the book so it will be fresh in my mind. Yours will be super fresh.

>86 SandDune: I’m sorry to hear that J has sprained his ankle. I hope it heals quickly.

>92 SandDune: Congrats on the weight loss. You look great.

>92 SandDune: - Congratulations on the weight loss, Rhian! You look fabulous.

Congratulations, you look fabulous, Rhian. Great meet-up photo on Darryl's thread. Too bad that I was busy and couldn't join in the fun. One year I hope that we actually do meet up during one of my UK visits.

Congrats on the weight loss, Rhian. You are an inspiration!

I also want to read more Erpenbeck. I have a couple of hers on my shelves. Maybe this summer?

>107 SandDune: That is pretty hilarious.

My daughter has urged me to pay more attention to my plastic use. Packaging is really ridiculous today. We're leaning more toward local, farmer's market sources and NO plastic bottles or plastic bags.

I've been so busy for the last few weeks: I've been busy at work and Mr SandDune has been completely rushed off his feet at his work, so I've been picking up the slack around the house. Only two and a half weeks to go before the end of his school term and then it'll be his turn to do the housework!

I've been amusing myself in the spare time that I have had in setting up various bird feeders in the garden and the number of birds has been growing. We do have a reasonable number of birds in the garden but I used to hear them rather than see much of them - now I'm seeing a lot of them as well. So far we have regular visits from these birds:
- house sparrow
- great tit
- blue tit
- blackbird
- starling
- wood pigeon
- dunnock
- robin
- magpie
So nothing unusual but they are keeping me entertained, particularly the blue tits which usually turn up in a little group and push each other off the bird feeders.

Always lovely to watch the birds Rhian. There used to be a family of blue tits in the little tree outside my bedroom window, and I loved to listen to them chattering and their wing beats in the morning. They haven't been back the past two years though.

Garden bird watching is one of the few things I miss about where we used to live. Even the most common of birds can be fun to watch as they flit about.

Does sound like fun - we have goldfinches and greenfinches, and they do not get on at all, which makes for lots of acrobatics on the feeder.

>114 SandDune: We have no feeders, our neighbors have plenty of feeders, but all those birds (except the robin, haven't seen one in some months now) frequent my garden regular ;-)

>115 Caroline_McElwee: >116 lauralkeet: >117 charl08: It's nice to have the bird table out again - when we had cats I always used to feel that feeding the birds was rather tempting fate! But none of our current neighbours seem to have cats now - we have one in the front garden from time to time but I've not seen it coming into the back at all.

>117 charl08: I do like goldfinches - we do get some in the garden from time to time but more over the winter - but I've never seen a greenfinch here.

I have a robin's nest on the eave of my front porch, Rhian, and when Scout and I are on the porch, the robin sits on the neighbor's fence and scolds us. Scout finds it amusing and annoying in turns.

>113 BLBera: I've signed up for plastic-free July so I've been planning my shopping for the month:

Fruit & vegetables: I've signed up for an organic vegetable box which is (mainly) plastic-free and anything else I should be able to get from the local supermarkets and market although I may need to shop around.

Meat: available plastic free from a local butchers

Fish: Waitrose (and also local fish shop) will allow you to use own containers.

Cheese & cold meats: ditto from Waitrose

Milk, fruit juice, yogurt: available from local milkman in glass bottles.

Personal hygiene: I've sourced solid shampoo and conditioner, bamboo toothbrush, toothpaste in glass jar, anti-perspirant in cardboard tube, moisturiser in glass jar, toilet paper without plastic wrapping.

Cleaning: shop in town sells some refillable Ecover cleaning products. Also bought wooden washing-up brush and coir scouring pads. Need to research dishwasher tablets. Can use washing powder in cardboard box.

General groceries: struggling with this one a bit more. Things like rice, pulses, nuts, biscuits and breakfast cereals all come in plastic bags. I have a feeling that Barilla pasta comes in cardboard with a little plastic window so I may need to buy that - I can't live without pasta for a month. The shop in town sell a (very limited) range of staples that can be put into containers, but nothing like the range I usually buy.

Herbs & spices: I've planted a herb garden for fresh herbs but dried herbs and spices usually come with a plastic top so not sure what I'm going to do with that.

Ready meals are a complete disaster area - I'm just going to have to cook from scratch for a month.

Medicines are also problematic (I'm on about three different asthma inhalers) but I've discovered that GlaxoSmithKline have an inhaler recycling scheme and that used inhalers can be dropped off at a local pharmacy.

>121 SandDune: Great plan, Rhian. Our local food co-op does refills of conditioner and shampoo; I haven't used them yet, so I'm not sure about the quality, but that will save on the plastic bottles they come in.

>121 SandDune: This is all very impressive and also kind of depressing about how much plastic I use. I've been reading about period politics, but it's not got to the environment (yet). I didn't know they make toothpaste in a glass jar - please report back on any things which work ok. I thought you might be visiting Lush?
Morrisons sells pea pasta (gluten free) in cardboard boxes. Although now I'm wondering if there is a small plastic window...

>121 SandDune: I shall be looking forward to updates on this Rhian. It looks so complicated, but it was all done without plastic years ago, it's just that our lifestyles are so different now, making it hard to do things that are more time consuming.

Good luck.

>122 BLBera: >123 charl08: >124 Caroline_McElwee: I've used the bar shampoo previously and found it suprisingly good: while it is quite expensive (from Lush) it lasts a lot longer than you might think at first glance. And the anti-perspirant seems to be working all right! It will definitely be more time-consuming. I think I will actually have to go shopping, whereas I've had internet shopping delivered for years and years ... What I could do with is a shop that does a good range of refills (the shop in town is very selective) but the nearest one I've found is forty minutes drive away, and it sort of defeats the object of being environmental to drive miles to get basic shopping.

>123 charl08: Talking about Lush, years ago Mr SandDune went to Germany on a school trip and brought me back some things from Lush as a present, on the assumption that it was a traditional German brand. I didn't like to tell him that I walked past a Lush shop every day at Liverpool Street station.

>125 SandDune: That's funny about Mr S's gift.

>121 SandDune: I didn't really think about how much plastic is in the things that I use everyday until I read your post, Rhian. It really is used in so many things that I use without thinking. You've got me thinking. Farmers markets are a good way to use fewer plastics when you can buy veggies and just stick them in your own carry bag (which is probably has plastic in it somehow), the berries are difficult though because a small bag is usually needed to keep them in their container.

>127 Familyhistorian: You could always use reusable mesh bags to replace the single use plastic ones. They're usually made from polyester so still not renewable resource but it's at least reusable.
Or maybe some form of resealable cardboard container. Is there something similar to cardboard egg cartons available? Like those styrofoam containers hamburgers used to come in, but made from cardboard. That'd give you a lid so the berries don't fall out.
If all else fails I suppose just walking carefully so the berries don't fall out.

>128 PawsforThought: Maybe walking carefully would work if the berries were in a separate carry bag from the rest of the produce I picked up at the farmer's market. I will have to think on it.

>127 Familyhistorian: >128 PawsforThought: >129 Familyhistorian: I have reusable mesh bags for the produce I buy and they work a treat. They're smallish (you can fit about 4 largish potatoes in them) and they have a drawstring at the opening. I highly recommend 'em.

>130 scaifea: I'll have to remember to order reusable mesh bags. Unfortunately, I just put in an Amazon order after reading the Guardian reviews on Charlotte's thread.

On a related recycling/plastic avoiding note: I was very happy to see one of our local stores is recycling batteries (I have a large collection of used ones). I took in some of my batteries today and was stymied to see that they wanted me to use plastics bags, one per battery!

>130 scaifea: I want to buy mesh bags but I don't want to buy polyester or nylon so am on the lookout for cotton or hemp (or similar natural fibre) ones. It's not easy to find.

>131 Familyhistorian: What? We've had battery recycling for literal decades (the municipality takes care of it) and we just throw our batteries in a postbox type thing. No bags whatsoever.

Rhian, you've inspired me to take a closer look at our plastic use and find ways to reduce or eliminate, beginning with food shopping and storage. I shop at a supermarket that uses paper bags (which I can then use to line our compost bin). Our weekly farm box contains loose produce or items in paper or compostable bags. I just bought a set of reusable cotton mesh bags which I will use for produce bought in store, and for storing those items in the fridge.

I'd like to find better options for freezer storage. I currently use plastic zip bags for meat, and plastic lidded containers for single servings of leftovers. At least the latter are reusable, but I'd be interested to hear what you're using.

>132 PawsforThought: Do you knit? You could make your own. Or if you don't mind them not being mesh, you could sew up some from a couple of old shirts or something...

Well done for your environmental concern actually being put into action unlike most of us who spout about it and do next to nowt.

Have a great Sunday, Rhian.

Good for you taking up the challenge of a plastic free July! I've been trying to step back one thing at a time, but it is hard work. Many of the changes I've made have, once implemented, been so easy I think, why didn't I do this before? But I have a long long way to go.

Yes, well done on the plastic reduction and the weight loss Rhian! I'm also trying to cut back massively on plastic. I've got the bamboo toothbrush, solid soap etc. It's the food packaging that keeps defeating me. I am saving some of my more tricky items for a local lady that is sending them to this company called "Terracycle" that specialise in recycling stuff that would normally be rejected by the curbside recycling collectors. She is somehow raising money by doing this as I believe they pay her for giving it to them if she does so in sufficient quantities, I think. But we have massively cut down on our waste in general. The bin men didn't take our black bin the other week because there was so little in it! (which was kind of annoying actually as what was in it was stinky!). Composting your own organic waste saves loads of space in your bin, I find. You might not think that helps the environment, but actually it really does, as organic waste that goes to landfill gets trapped under inorganic waste and produces methane, whereas waste that breaks down in a compost heap doesn't! Plus, I find it very rewarding, turning scraps into nice rich soil, with the help of my worm buddies!
I share your deep concern about the environment and have been trying all sorts of things. Giving up eating meat (surprisingly easy), installing solar panels (so far so good!), buying a bike and cutting down on car journeys (not going so well! Traffic in Lincoln is terrible and I'm scared to take to the roads, and there are almost no cycle lanes.) Taking the train rather than car for longer journeys (also not going well! Lincoln seems to exist in a rail black hole that makes it very hard to get to or leave via train without multiple changes and long stop overs.) Also contemplating a future of not flying, and holidaying by car or train. We have done Europe by car for the last two summers, so we have kind of started that, but there have been flights to Malta, Budapest and Tenerife too. But, we will try and cut down if we can't completely eliminate them. But, I think the main thing we can do is pressurise our politicians to affect the rapid changes we must start making. I have started attending a few local council meetings and writing to my MP, but I need to step up my game here too. The sad truth is, MP's are all distracted by Brexit (which I share your deep sorrow over. My mum voted Leave too, which I want to shout at her and scream about, but I am banned from discussing it with her by my husband who senses it will cause a lasting rift in the family that would not easily be healed.) Brexit, as awful as it is, will I believe, be viewed as a massive distraction and non-event compared to the climate crisis. It just annoys me so much that at this crucial moment in history, we are wasting our time on this divisive nonsense when all of Europe needs to come together to fight for humanity's future! Sigh. I fear for us, I really do.
On a slightly lighter note, you mentioned not having read Roadside Picnic. It's a complete masterpiece I think. But on the weird side, so not everyone's cuppa.

Just popping back to offer some alternatives to the rather depressing picture I was painting about climate change. Some people already have the answer! Managed de-growth! This stuff is what's interesting me and making me, if not optimistic about the future, at least keeping hope alive. Check these out! Also, the book I read earlier this year Utopia for Realists deals with the issue of a 15 hour working week, although not specifically from an environmental angle, but it does make for interesting reading.
https://www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/bj9yjq/the-radical-plan-to-save-the-plane...
https://simplicitycollective.com/post-capitalism-by-design-not-disaster-creating...

Hi Rhian!

I hope your plastic-free July is coming along nicely. The only thing I've done is buy metal straws and take them everywhere, thus saving perhaps 300 straws so far...

I'm going to start using cotton bags for groceries, I just need to remember to put them in the car when we go grocery shopping.

I too was wondering how you are doing Rhian.

The best I've managed this month is to cut down on consumption of sparkling water in the office, by about 65%.

I'm good on the shopping bags, but hadn't thought of metal straws >139 karenmarie: I don't use straws often, but I'll look into that.

Hi Rhian! You look fantastic! Congrats on your weight loss - I'll bet you are feeling so healthy.

Your plastic-free July is inspiring me! I have become good about bringing reusable bags when shopping. When we were just in Germany I saw that they are so far ahead of Americans with regard to plastic bags. Even paper bags from shops are not available unless you pay for them. We ended up buying a plastic bag from a grocery store and carrying it with us in a backpack wherever we went. I just placed reusable produce bags in my Amazon cart but after >134 scaifea: Amber's suggestion I might try to knit some or see if Callia will. Small changes, right? One change we made years ago was to use cloth napkins for daily use - even in our lunch boxes. We have multiples of solid color plain cotton napkins and each family member has a color (with others for guests). We use them for a couple of days and then add them to towels for washing. I keep paper napkins on hand in case they're needed and recently bought some for the first time in in maybe 5-6 years. I know there are many other changes I can make as well.

Hi Rhian,

Hope all is well with you and that your plastic-free month is going well - I'm very impressed with you for doing that and have been trying to think of more ways to cut plastic out of my life other than what I'm already doing (which is primarily plastic-bag boycotting). It's not easy.

Also, because I was scrolling through the thread and saw your weight-loss pics again. The dress you're wearing in the "after" photo is so cute! I want one!

Missing your updates here Rhian. Hope all is well.

Hi Rhian

It's been awfully quiet in here. Give us a wave if you can.

Well I’ve been missing in action from LT for a good couple of months so I probably owe people a bit of an explanation.

You may remember that I was tackling plastic-free July? Leading up to that I had been becoming more and more concerned about environmental issues which the frequent news reports of environmental disasters haven’t done anything to sooth. Forest fires in Brazil, melting ice in the Arctic and record temperatures in Western Europe have all given me a fairly full on case of eco-anxiety. I managed to switch off while I was on holiday (mainly by not watching the news) but my focus on environmental issues over the last few months has been fairly all-encompassing. I’ve got involved in several campaigning organisations and most of my spare time has been taken up with that.

I’ve now come to realise that I can’t focus on this at the expense of everything else! I need to have a more balanced approach for the sack of my peace of mind, if nothing else. So while I am going to continue to focus on environmental issues I can’t let it be as all consuming as I have been doing. So I’ll hopefully be returning to LT on much more of a regular basis over the next few weeks.

I have been reading though, even if I haven’t been commenting on my reading, and I have managed to keep my reading list up to date. Not as much as usually though, as the complete basket-case that is the state of British politics at the moment has meant I have spent more time listening to the BBC Radio 4 news on my commute rather than listening to my usual audiobooks. But I did get a fair amount of reading done on holiday.

In other news J received his AS level results and got an A in English Literature and Biology, a B in History and a C in Maths, which he is pleased with. He would have liked an A in history as well, but he knows where he went wrong. It’s a fairly solid base for him to be applying to University for next year so we were really pleased!

Glad to see a message from you, Rhian, and I spotted you on Joe's thread.
The eco-disasters bother me too, not as involved as you are, but trying to do what I can.

Congratulations to J!

>145 SandDune: Good to get the catchup Rhian. I understand totally about the eco-anxiety, not least because so many alternatives to current behaviours have other detrimental effects. It is a mire.

You are braver than I listening to the news on your commute. I have dramatically reduced my news intake. And I won't listen to Boris's voice agggrrr. I want a large sinkhole to open up and swallow most of our politicians at the moment. Jo Swinson aside. A very committed MP and now party leader, I do look forward to her debut speech as leader of the Lib Dem's tomorrow.

ETA: Congratulations J.

>145 SandDune: It's incredible of you to get so involved with doing what you can to elp the environment, but I tink it's the right thing to do to take a small step back. Things can so easily become too much to handle, and especially something as huge as the environment and climate change. And if you burn yourself out, you can't do anything to help the environment, can you? So enjoy mixing up your eco-warrioiring with some reading and other hobbies.

>146 FAMeulstee: Hi Anita - thanks for dropping by. Yes I had a (very) brief meet-up with Joe and Bianca on Friday, and a rather longer one with Claire, Genny and Darryl. Myself, Darryl and Genny went on to see ‘Faith, Hope and Charity’ at the National Theatre. I made the comment at the interval that one of the actors was very convincing at playing a character with learning disabilities only to discover when I read the programme that the actor had learning disabilities himself. As I work for a charity which provides support to people with learning disabilities it’s always nice to see people being given more opportunities.

>147 Caroline_McElwee: I think with politics at the moment I find it rather like some horrible disaster that you much rather wasn’t happening but that you can’t take your eyes off. I absolutely deplore the fact that we can’t have civil conversations any more with people who disagree with us, and the way that political parties are becoming so much more narrowly based - if you’re not a true believer then you’re out - but I can see the same tendencies in myself as well. I can still have a civil conversation with someone who disagrees with me as long as we both come at in a respectful way. But confront me with someone who keeps announcing that ‘Everyone thinks ....’ or ‘The people have spoken ...’ then I get as bad as the rest of them. Last week I was at a meal where I was surrounded by fairly right wing Brexiteers (as well as one of those older men who’s not very interested in speaking to women about politics) and I was very tempted to announce that I was a member of the Socialist Workers Party (I’m not) just to get them to shut up. I thought the minute of shocked silence might be worth it. Actually the thing I hate most in the blaming on ‘elites’. I had a local Tory councillor blaming ‘elites’ for resistance to Brexit and in the next sentence telling me that his view on climate change was right because he had a First from Oxford. I couldn’t help coming away with the opinion that in his view ‘elites’ meant anyone who didn’t agree with him.

>148 PawsforThought: Paws I think there’s definitely a danger of burn-out and also constantly focusing on something that makes you anxious isn’t ideal for mental health.

Mr SandDune has been rather stressed as well recently. He didn’t get a promotion at work that he wanted and that has left him thinking that he really wants a change. But he is struggling to decide exactly what sort of change it is that he wants. We are probably looking to retire in 4-5 years once J has finished at University. I think he’d quite like a new challenge for that period

It's nice to hear from you, Rhian. I applaud you for putting so much energy into environmental issues but also agree with you and others that if it's become too much, it's time to seek balance. I'm sure you'll find a way forward.

>149 SandDune: Your response to Caro describes, almost word-for-word, the environment in the US as well and, like you, I exhibit the same tendencies when I encounter someone who disagrees with me. It's very disheartening, and the state of things in our countries and the world is a big source of anxiety for me.

In better news, I'm glad you're still reading and congratulations to J on his AS-level results.

Great to see you briefly, Rhian. Sorry we couldn't join the rest of you for the evening. Debbi was feeling much improved by the next day. I'm glad you enjoyed the play.

I don't know whether Darryl sent you the meetup photo, but here it is. We can probably find the one with Darryl in it if you'd like it.

Hi Rhian!

Eco-anxiety and political anxiety make for a tough time. I echo what Laura said - your description of the British political environment sounds disgustingly like what's going on here in the US. Everybody is so polarized that if you're not speaking with people of the same mindset, it could get explosive.

Congrats to J, sorry about Mr. SandDune's not getting the promotion.

I thought I’d just mention a few highlights of my reading while I was offline.

One real highlight was Wilding by Isabella Tree to which I have given a five star rating. I can’t recommend this highly enough to anyone who is interested in the idea of rewilding or conservation in general. It’s the story of how the Knepp estate in Sussex was converted from fairly unprofitable intensive farm to a pioneering rewilding project which has seen a very large increase in a number of native rare species. In the process of telling her story, Isabella Tree considers what the natural habitat of the British Isles would have been. It's sometimes assumed to be have pretty much continuous forest, but she makes a convincing argument that it would be much more open with areas of grassland maintained by large herbivores such as aurochs, and it is this type of habitat that they are seeing recreated at Knepp.

Here's a video:

https://knepp.co.uk/home

Another highlight has been The Cut Out Girl: A Story of War and Family, Lost and Found by Bart van Es, the story of how a Jewish girl, Lien, survived in the Nazi occupied Netherlands, in part because of the actions of Van Es's own grandparents. This was enlightening about the history of the Netherlands in the Second World War - I didn't know for instance that Jews in the Netherlands had the lowest survival rate of those in any European country. The Cut-Out Girl examines why this was the case and doesn't shy away from asking some difficult questions about the author's own family, but above all it brings Lien's own story very much alive.

>154 SandDune: Ooh, sounds like very interesting bok, both of them. But Wilding sounds especially good. Re-wilding is a very interesting subject.

>151 lauralkeet: >153 karenmarie: One thing that I think is a little heartening in the U.K. is that some politicians are putting their careers on the line to prevent something they see as being disastrous for the country as a whole. In the main, I have probably disagreed with most political decisions many of them have made, sometimes extremely strongly, but I think you have to give people a certain amount of respect for at least having principles. At the moment we have a Supreme Court case going on where a former Conservative Prime Minister is challenging the current Prime Minister about his decision to suspend parliament, a former deputy leader of the Conservative Party has been thrown out of the Party, as well as someone who was challenging for the leadership earlier in the summer. It's all fairly surreal.

>152 jnwelch: It was great to see you, if only briefly, Joe. Sorry that Debbi was feeling under the weather.

>155 PawsforThought: All three of the SandDune family have now read Wilding and enjoyed it. They run wildlife safaris explaining their approach and exploring the estate and I am very keen to go on one next year. I tried to book one as soon as I read the book but unfortunately they were all full on the dates that worked for us.

Sorry to read that MrSandDune didn't get a deserved promotion. I'm sure that he'll be successful in whatever he tries to do in the future. Great to see you back and posting.

>156 SandDune: Completely agree about respecting the people you normally disagree with (or even actively dislike) for standing up against an absolute disaster in the making. There are people I thought I'd never think a good thought about that I now find myself somewhat agreeing with - it's all very surreal.

>157 SandDune: Oh, that sounds very interesting - I hope you eventually manage to find an available date that works for you. I don't have a garden or back yard of my own but if I did, I'd do my own small version of rewilding (aka not cutting the grass and letting it be an insect haven).

Wilding goes on my list Rhian, I enjoyed George Mombiots book n rewinding a few years back.

I'd be really interested to hear how your plastic free July went, when you get time Rhian. I was thinking last night, one would almost have to become vegan, as all dairy is in plastic, except eggs. What did you find most difficult, or impossible to resolve?

>158 PaulCranswick: Thanks Paul - I think he just wants a change to be honest. He is getting over it a bit better now.

>159 PawsforThought: We've been talking about rewilding our lawn - myself and J are in favour but Mr SandDune is less keen. I've got the winter to convince him...

>160 Caroline_McElwee: I've also got George Monbiot's book Feral around somewhere although I haven't read it yet. I bought it a little while ago and then it disappeared into J's room, only reappearing months later looking extremely dog-eared and very much the worse for wear. I don't know what he does with his books exactly, but they all look as though they've survived some sort of mini-apocalypse! For someone like me, who likes my books pristine, it's quite distressing!

>160 Caroline_McElwee: I didn’t reply to your question about plastic free July, Caroline. I certainly used less plastic overall. As regards dairy I made the following changes:

Milk: I reverted to a doorstep delivery from a milkman - I’m going to continue with this. Also delivers fruit juice in glass bottles.
Butter: A complete fail - couldn’t find any plastic free butter anywhere.
Cheese: A partial success - the cheese counter at my local Waitrose is happy to put cheese in customer’s own containers. Unfortunately they only have pre-packed Parmesan, of which we eat a very large quantity. Soft cheeses such as Halloumi and mozzarella were more of a problem (and I’ve realised that we eat quite a lot of those as well) and so I gave them up for the month.
Eggs: Easily available in cardboard.
Yogurt: Milkman delivers natural yogurt in glass jars - it’s quite expensive but it’s not something we often eat.
Cream, Crème fraiche etc Fail - plastic only.

Surprisingly, the easiest thing was fruit and vegetables. I sourced a good local farm shop and managed to get virtually everything plastic free. The exceptions were blueberries, fresh raspberries and lettuce which seem impossible to find plastic-free. I’m going to continue doing this.

Overall, I found that it wasn’t too difficult to cut down quite dramatically once I’d got into a routine. However, shopping was more time consuming (and a bit more expensive): it did require more planning and if my routine was interrupted then it was much more difficult. But I’ve made a lot of long term changes that I will be sticking with.

I wish milk in glass bottles were available here, too. We have plastic covered cartons, which can be recycled (the plastic covering is separated from the cardboard and both are recycled), but I'd still prefer a non-plastic option.

For some things, plastic is a necessary evil. It's sad, but in the way of medical products, plastic is the best or only option. Plastic beakers can stand up to far higher temperatures and safer consumption than from any other material, and this is the same issue with plastic straws. I would say to cut down plastic packaging, but a ban on plastic straws would be heavily deleterious. I remember seeing my great-uncle drinking his tea through a plastic straw. He hated the taste of his nutrition drinks so he made up for it by drinking whole milk in his tea. He couldn't have managed a paper straw and he could never have managed a metal straw.

>164 Jeanie_K: I've seen some silicone straws popping up here and there, that should work for situations like your great-uncle's, shouldn't it?

I have thought about plastic and medical products quite a bit, and while I wish there was another way, I agree that at least right now, there's nothing that can replace it. Myself, I wear both contact lenses and glasses and while the contacts themselves are silicone, they come in plastic blisters, the storage cases are plastic and the bottles of saline are plastic. And while I have "real" glass in my glasses, only one pair of my glasses are metal frame - the other is plastic and I'd have a hard time only using the metal ones (too heavy for daily use).
And that's just one thing.

I really appreciate the talk of going plastic-free (or as plastic-free as possible) on this thread, because it's really made me think a lot about plastic in my life and where I could make changes.

>164 Jeanie_K: >165 PawsforThought: I’m not against all plastic. I’ve got plenty of plastic food containers at home, a plastic lunchbox, plastic glasses and I can’t see any alternative to my asthma inhalers being made out of anything but plastic anytime soon. What I’m trying to cut down on is single use plastic, especially where there is a viable alternative. Some plastic packaging just isn’t needed, and the world just isn’t big enough for the huge number of plastic bottles that we create every day. I found it illustrated in this infographic which I find deeply scary:

https://graphics.reuters.com/ENVIRONMENT-PLASTIC/0100B275155/index.html

(Scroll down to the bottom once it gets to 1,000,000)

I used to feel very proud of myself that my recycling bin was full compared to the normal rubbish, but now I realise that a lot of what I put for recycling doesn’t get recycled at all, or it gets exported to Indonesia or Malaysia and causes problems there so I’m trying to reduce first.

>164 Jeanie_K: Jeanie_K I agree with you about plastic straws: some people absolutely do need them. As they do the plastic medical equipment that is necessarily single use. I work for a disability charity so I’m the last person who would want to deprive someone of something that makes their life easier in that way. But we ought to be able to sort out a way of making straws readily available to those who need them while at the same time not automatically providing a straw with every drink bought.

>162 SandDune: Thanks Rhian, very useful. That infographic is eye-opening. I'm definitely intending to reduce my single use plastic. I just need to think about what things I can bear to give up if there is no satisfactory option.

I've been thinking about packaging more when I shop as well, Rhian. It is difficult to find some things in containers that are not plastic.

Good news on J's exams - will he start looking at university now? Sorry to hear about Mr. SandDune - it sounds as though you may have some changes upcoming. How exciting.

I am thinking about retirement in five years, but we'll see.

I know what you mean about the news - it is like a disaster that one can't turn away from.
Wilding goes on my list.

>166 SandDune: That infographic is really unsettling. I've never been one to buy bottled water (the tap water quality here is superb) so I can't quite understand why people do buy them (except for when you don't have another choice for safe, drinkable water, of course).

I'm not against all plastic either, but all plastic does decay and turn into micro-plastic eventually so I like to avoid it where posible, and replace it when I can (though I wait until its life/use is over) with other materials. I also have plastic lunchboxes even though I don't like them, but I just can't find an alternative that works. If we had an oven or heating-cupboard at work I'd use an old-fashioned metal box but we don't - just a microwave - and glass is simply too heavy to lug around (I don't have a car so drag my things on two different busses) every day, especially when I keep snacks and extra veggies in separate containers from the hot meal. I have my eye on some silicone pouches that I think could work well for veggies and snacks, but that's only part of the problem solved.
I've avoided polyester and other similar fibres for years, primarily because I find them generally uncomfortable to wear, but now also because of microplastics. Sadly, there are some clothing items that are impossible (or near-impossible, at least in my financial situation) to find poly-free (bras and weatherproof jackets being at the top of the list, textile shoes are also tricky).

>169 PawsforThought: I just got the freeze/bake/microwave silicone zip pouches from the Kickstarter and they are very heavily made. Certainly heavier than the reusable plastic Glad/Ziploc lidded containers for size. I wasn't expecting them to be so massive.

>170 quondame: Really? Well, silicone is quite dense, so I'm not surprised they're heavier than plastic of the same thickness. They'll still be significantly lighter than glass jars, though. But this just proves that there's a lot to think about when making changes.
Apart from the weight, do you like them? Do they work well?

>171 PawsforThought: The silicone ones are thick, almost 1/4" in places. The ones I got are meant to stand up, so that may be the issue. I've only used one so far, and just as a pasta container in the fridge. I thought my husband could just zap it to pour chili over, but he put 1/2 in a bowl to heat it - I wasn't there for the second 1/2 so I don't know how that went.....

Both myself and J attended climate strikes yesterday. Here is the one in Bishops's Stortford where we live. J is the tall one in a pinkish sweatshirt in the top left of the first photo.




I was at a conference in Nottingham and managed to pop out at lunchtime to join in the Nottingham protest which was considerably bigger (although that's not very apparent from these photos.

Both myself and J attended climate strikes yesterday (actually he attended two). Here is the one in Bishops's Stortford where we live. J is in the very back left of the first picture wearing a pinkish sweat shirt:





Here is the (much larger) protest in Nottingham, where I was attending a conference. I managed to join in for half an hour during my lunch break:

49. The Second Sleep Robert Harris ****



It's the year 1468 and the young priest Christopher Fairfax is making his way on horseback to the village of Addicott St George in the South-West of England. As he makes his way across the moorland he is startled by a flash of green: he is relieved to see that it is 'Nothing more sinister than a common parakeet' but it's the first sign to the reader that all is not as it seems. Parakeets are non-native birds that have been found in and around London for the last thirty to forty years or so. There are breeding flocks now but they were originally escapees from pet shops or aviaries: they certainly aren't found in the West Country and definitely not in the Middle Ages. Fairfax is visiting Addicott to conduct the funeral for its previous parish priest, a collector of antiquities, who in pride of place in his collection has a strange device marked with a bitten apple ...

This was a page turner of a book, and while it didn't end up where I was expecting, the ending was nonetheless very satisfying ...

>175 SandDune: BB!

Last night we went to a 50th birthday party for an old friend. When I was expecting J we attended an NCT ante-natal class - our group really jelled and for 10 years or so after our children were born we met pretty much weekly. This party was a surprise party for one of the fathers from that group. We haven’t seen each other as much over the last eight or nine years but it was great to catch up. Normally I’m not terribly keen on fancy dress but with the theme being 1969 I bought a vintage 60s dress which I was very happy with. Mr SandDune went as Captain Kirk!

>177 SandDune: Photos....

>175 SandDune: I have added that one to my TBR list. It looks fascinating. Thanks.

>178 Caroline_McElwee: tee hee. I hope you're not holding your breath, Caro!

>178 Caroline_McElwee: >180 lauralkeet: We didn't actually take any photos (I forgot my phone). The best I can do is a photo of my dress, once it has come out of the wash.

>181 SandDune: Your dress modeled?

Like you I found the history in The Cut Out Girl very interesting, Rhian. My knowledge of that part of the war was non-existent before I read the book. You got me with a BB for The Second Sleep. Good for you for getting involved with environmental groups. At least that is somewhere where you can make a difference unlike the confusing politics around Brexit.

It's not been a great week this week. Mr SandDune has gone down with flu, proper flu, and has been off work all week. He's marginally better than he was a couple of days ago, but it's slow going, and he'll be lucky to be back at work on Monday at this rate. I have done something to a tendon in my shoulder which is causing pain when I raise my arm and also at night - I tend to sleep on that side and that obviously exacerbates it. I'm having physiotherapy but it's also a slow process. J has gone to see his girlfriend over the weekend, who has gone back to university, so we were going to have a quiet weekend with just the two of use and do something nice, but it isn't quite working out like that!

>182 Familyhistorian: Oh, don't talk to me about Brexit. The whole thing is just like a horror film that I don't want to watch but can't take my eyes off.

Sorry that you and MrSandune are suffering Rhian. Speedy recovery to both. I empathise re the shoulder, as I have torn ligaments on my left arm, lots of broken sleep.

Sorry to hear about your health woes! I hope both you and Mr SandDune feel better very soon.

I took Daisy to the park this afternoon and she found a stick ...





I think she was trying to take it home! Or failing that, chew it into very little pieces. It was very windy here last night and a couple of trees (including a full-size horse chestnut) have blown down completely. This one was lucky to have only lost a branch.

Mr SandDune seems to be improving slowly. He managed to get through a full day without needing to go to bed, which he hasn't managed since Sunday.

>186 SandDune: LOL! Some dogs prefer their sticks BIG! I bet she had fun with it.
My first dog, a Belgian Shepherd, had the same preference. If he managed to pick up the big branch, we had to be carefull, as he would run the branch right into our knees.

Glad to read there is some improvement in Mr. SandDune's health.

>186 SandDune: Funny.

Also glad to hear of health improvement.

>186 SandDune: awww, Daisy. Such a good dog!

I'm glad to hear Mr SD is on the mend.

>182 Familyhistorian: Once the dress is washed I promise I will take a photo!

>184 Caroline_McElwee: I'm sorry to hear about your shoulder as well Caroline. The physiotherapist doesn't think I have torn ligaments but they are inflamed apparently and it has been particularly sore today. I seem to remember when Mr SandDune had similar problems he had a steroid injection - I'm starting to think maybe I should go back to the doctor and see if something like that would help. He has had two similar things. First bad tennis elbow which took years to clear up - he should have had it operated on but it was when J was small and he didn't want to be out of action for weeks as he was the prime caregiver. In retrospect, if he'd realised that it was going to last as long as it did then he'd have had the operation. And then three or four years ago he tore his rotator cuff when he fell over Daisy - but he did have that operated on which was very successful.

Hi Rhian!

I'm sorry to hear about MrSanDune's flu and your inflamed tendon. I hope both are improving.

>186 SandDune: Good for Daisy! If you're going to do something, do it right.

Hope Mr. Sand Dune continues to improve and glad to hear that Daisy is in her full doggy glory! I have pain in my right shoulder too, although it only bothers me when I lay on it to go to sleep, so I empathize.

50. Convenience Store Woman Sayaka Murata ***



Keiko works in a convenience store - she has worked there for 18 years ever since the first day that it opened and it's where's she feels most at home. But her family can't understand why, at the age of 36 and with a college degree, she can't get a better job. And her friends can't understand why she isn't married, and has never even been in a relationship. Fobbing them off with excuses isn't working any more ... But Keiko has always been different, and unable to understand the motivations of other people. As a very small girl finding a dead bird her reaction was that it was something to be eaten, and she couldn't understand why the other children were upset... A boys' fight was broken up when Keiko hit one of them over the head with a spade. Why were the adults so upset when everyone had been screaming at them to stop: she'd stopped them hadn't she? But in the convenience store she can learn exactly the right responses from the other workers and always be the perfect worker. But then things start to change ...

This book has been getting a lot of positive vibes and it's fine, a pleasant enough read, but to be honest I can't quite see what the excitement is about.

Not a particularly great week this week. Mr SandDune hasn't recovered properly from his flu. He tried to go to work on Monday, and was sent home immediately as the walk from car park to office exhausted him so much. He went to the GP again, and he is over his flu but suffering from post-viral fatigue. He's been told to have a complete rest (no work emails) and that it may take several weeks. I think he is improving but very slowly. So this has meant that I've been very busy picking up on all the household tasks.

Yesterday I went into town to do some shopping and immediately proceeded to lose my main credit card that I use for household purchases. And then someone drove into me when I was driving through the car park on my way back home - basically he set off from his parking space without looking to see if anyone was coming. The guy admitted it was his fault and I have a witness but I've know got to get it repaired which will be a hassle. Then when I got home the washing machine had stopped working as the water won't drain. After, unblocking the filter a couple of times we've admitted defeat and are going to have to get someone out to clear it. Not a great day!

Today's been a little better - at least nobody drove into me! I had to walk over to Mr SandDune's school to collect the car that he left there last week, so I took Daisy and called into Waterstones (which is sort of on the way) and bought the new book by Jonathan Safran Foer: We are the Weather: Saving the Planet begins at Breakfast and had a latte and a piece of millionaire's shortbread which cheered me up. And Daisy enjoyed her trip to Waterstones (as she usually does) as she discovered that they have restocked the dog biscuit barrel as well as finding three people to make a fuss of her

Hope that Mr. SandDune recovers quickly.

My goodness your Saturday was a bit fraught!

I think I liked Convenience Woman a little bit more than you, but I do think the hype was overblown too.

Hope Mr S feels better soon. And that the car insurance is sorted out without hassle.

Sorry to hear about your terrible day, and that Mr SandDune isn't feeling well. Hope the new week treats you both better.

Whoa that's a pretty bad day, Rhian. I'd say you deserved that bookstore visit. I had to look up millionaire's shortbread and oh my that looks like a nice treat.

>196 PaulCranswick: >197 charl08: >198 PawsforThought: Welcome - Mr SandDune is still very run down but making slow progress I think. The car insurance seems to be sorted out - the other driver seems to have definitely accepted responsibility.

>199 lauralkeet: You've never had millionaire's shortbread? That is very sad!

>195 SandDune: >200 SandDune: Glad to hear the ther driver has taken responsibility Rhian. Sorry Mr S is still suffering, and the roll on effect for you. Hopefully this week will bring improvement on all fronts.

>200 SandDune: Now that I know of such a thing, I will be on the lookout for an opportunity to wolf one down.

I read Convenience Store Woman pre-hype and liked it a lot. Pre-hype almost always seems to be better, doesn't it. It seemed to me to be a modest, quirky book that I had a good time with, and hoped other people found (I got it after reading a staff member recommendation at Foyle's). To be honest, I wasn't aware that it had buzz now. I guess at least that means more people have read and will read it.

HI, Rhian. Here's a hug for your Saturday--((((RHian)))))--as you definitely deserve it!

I hope this week is going better than the last couple of weeks, Rhian. Speedy recovery to Mr. S. How's the shoulder?

Best wishes to your husband for a speedy recovery!

>201 Caroline_McElwee: The damage is estimated to be in the region of £1,000 - I'm always amazed how a relatively little bump can cost so much money to put right.

>204 ronincats: >205 BLBera: >206 kidzdoc: Mr SandDune is still improving, albeit slowly. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets back to work sometime next week, although possibly not Monday. My arm has got worse unfortunately - I now can't lift my arm to the side higher than my shoulder (although I can lift it to the front) - so I went to the G.P. this afternoon. He agrees with the physiotherapist, that it is tendon related in the shoulder, and has given me some anti-inflammatories to try for a week. If they don't work, I can try having a steroid injection. One good thing was that I was able to have my flu vaccination, as he was giving them out to all his eligible patients while they were there. I'd booked one for next week and it will save me having to take more time off work.

J meanwhile has possibly got mild concussion. He decided to do some jumping on Monday evening and unfortunately didn't take in account that he is over 6 feet tall and that he was standing in a doorway at the time. He was having a persistent headache so he also had to go to the G.P. on Wednesday to get checked. It's improving, but apparently may take a couple of weeks to clear up completely.

So the only completely healthy one in the household at the moment is Daisy!

>203 jnwelch: I think you're right Joe - it's better to go to this things with lower expectations!

>207 SandDune: my goodness, the SandDune family has had a spate of health issues. Thank goodness you won't get flu. Hope everyone's condition improves in due course.

>207 SandDune: Shoulder sounds more than a little uncomfortable, Rhian. I hope you can avoid the steroids as they always make me bloated if I take them for my asthma.

J - OUCH.

Have a lovely and accident/incident free weekend all of you.

Well, I hope this means that you will all get through at least a year's worth of ill health and injuries in one go, Rhian. I like the way that you built in treats for yourself and Daisy when you went to get the car. You deserved a treat.

I'm sorry to hear about all the injuries/illnesses, Rhiann. Like you said, at least Daisy is healthy!

I hope things get better sooner than later.

Pleased to announce that Mr SandDune has FINALLY recovered from his illness. He’s lost a lot of fitness but is out and about again, and back to his gym classes. J is fit and healthy and recovered from concussion and my arm is (I think) getting a little bit better. Daisy has to go to the vets this week to go and have the root canal checked that she had last year: she had to have a general anaesthetic and was miserable for a day or so, but has recovered now. She’s unhappy at the moment though as Mr SandDune is watching England vs New Zealand and making a lot of noise as England are winning, slightly unexpectedly! Daisy hates rugby as there is far too much shouting for her: she is a delicate little flower.

Taking it fairly easy this weekend as last weekend we went down to South Wales to attend Swansea University Open Day (and also fit in a quick visit to my Mum). Quite tiring as Mr SandDune was still not well enough to attend, so I had to drive all the way myself - about 250 miles. We had a reasonable journey, until we got to Swansea itself. It's a place I know reasonably well, although haven't been there in some time, but while I knew approximately where the hotel car park was, I didn't know exactly how to get into it. Our SatNav was directing us quite happily until the last minute, and then it turned out that the road we needed to turn into was closed, so we ended up driving round and round Swansea several times looking for the car park entrance. We only found it when I gave up completely and decided to park further away, and then discovered that the first car park was quite well signposted from the opposite direction. So, eventually we got to the hotel to then find out that they had no booking for us. On investigation this was because there is more than one Premier Inn in Swansea and I'd booked rooms in a different one. So, back to the car park to find the new Premier Inn (which was a little distance away) but at least had parking which was much easier to find.

After all the excitement we had a productive visit to Swansea with J probably going to put it down as his insurance choice as it's expecting slightly lower grades that the other universities he's looked at. I was very biased in its favour due to it having a very good zero-waste shop and a beach within five minutes walk (I've never quite come to terms with living by the sea), but he is being more sensible and looking at ratings for the History department and student satisfaction surveys. He has a last visit to York next week and then his university visits are done and he needs to make a decision.

>212 SandDune: Glad everyone has recovered and you are on your way to recovery, Rhian.
What does "put it down as his insurance choice" mean?

>213 FAMeulstee: What does "put it down as his insurance choice" mean? The way that university entrance works here is that the potential students can apply to 5 universities. The universities will then offer the students a place (or not) subject to them getting specific grades at A level. Most of the universities that J is looking at require at least AAA at A level, but Swansea is only looking for BBB, so if he put that down it would be insurance if his grades were lower than he expected.

What is his first choice, Rhian? How exciting.

>215 BLBera: He's intending to put down Leeds, Sheffield, Lancaster, York and Swansea. He's still debating whether to put down for pure history, or history and something else (probably history & German, or history & politics. He needs to decide next week.