A rose by any other name would smell as sweet...pronouns too

Ok, I'm just going to say it right here right now. I didn't know you could see someone's preferred pronoun and their name to call them by. So, I've been winging it. So sorry to those I got wrong!

Just hover over the member's LT handle when you see it, and voila! You never have to guess again.

I'm beginning to wonder if LT could plan weddings too. Or water the garden. Or deliver pizza. What can't it do?!

Oh, one thing: Allow comments on reviews for those that want them. Other than that, I ask you, what?!

>1 DebiCates: Someone please tell me this is a relatively new feature! I've been here 18 years and I didn't know about it.

>2 Foretopman: I think it's a couple years old? It got announced, but many people never bothered to go into their settings and add pronouns.

>3 amanda4242: Oh, I added my pronouns, I just didn't know that would show up when you hovered over a user name.

>2 Foretopman: 18 years! Wow. Well, that makes me feel a little better about all these little discoveries that I thought everyone except a newbie would know. Even in the month I've been here, I realize how little I "see" when I look at any given page at first. I've been trying most recently to see more. And click more stuff. ha

>5 DebiCates: Yeah, that's just one of the many things I love about LT; it is so rich there's always more to discover.

I like the way comments on reviews are done now. Especially since you can now attach a review directly into Talk.
Please don't change that.

>1 DebiCates: "Just hover over the member's LT handle when you see it, and voila! You never have to guess again."

Doesn't work for me on any of the names in this thread. Edge on Win11.

>7 gilroy: I would delete all my reviews.

>8 DuncanHill: There's a setting to switch the hover info on and off, you may have turned it off.

>8 DuncanHill: Edge has been known to cause problems. Blocking a lot of information.

>10 keristars: No, I haven't turned it off, because I've never seen a switch. Where is it?

I clearly understand that some don't want uninvited comments on their reviews. I'm certain also, it would be made an option you can turn off, "no comments on my reviews." And for those of us that love that interaction, we would have ours turned on "yes, comments allowed."

It's also an option on GR.

>12 DuncanHill: https://www.librarything.com/settings/other

It's in the "I don't want this feature!" ticky boxes.

>13 DebiCates:

It's also an option on GR.

As you may have noticed, this isn't GR. Because it's an option there is not a reason to have it here.

>12 DuncanHill: I noticed the info box on hover happens for the name in the post heading, but not when a name is used in the post itself.

>14 keristars: Thank you - I never noticed it before! And if I had I wouldn't have guessed that info boxes meant that.

Settings > Other Settings - I don't want this feature! - Disable work and member info boxes (uncheck to show on hover).

>15 lilithcat: I'm sorry to have made a comparison that seemed insulting. Surely you know that wasn't my intention. I haven't been here long but I have quickly grown to love and have shared the many joys I've found on LT.

Sincerely, what am I missing? Why should those here who want it not have it, at least to be considered by the development team? And those that clearly despise it don't have to have it. It is a fiery issue, I see that, but it puzzles me since it is suggested as an opt in--or opt out--feature.

>16 jjwilson61: I just saw that too, Jeff. Worth noting.

>18 DebiCates: Many of us came here instead of goodreads specifically because LT does not have things like review comments. It's not just about the feature, it's about what adding the feature says about the direction of the site.

Also, people have been suggesting review comments here since 2008. Most recently in 2024. This is not something that has never been considered by the development team.
https://www.librarything.com/talktopic.php?topic=37428
https://www.librarything.com/topic/37853
https://www.librarything.com/topic/48059
https://www.librarything.com/topic/79566
https://www.librarything.com/topic/358366

>20 norabelle414: I know it's been a long long long discussion. So it's not about the feature itself (one that could be turned off) but it's about "the direction of the site." What direction is that and how is it unappealing?

ETA: I am sincere in my questions. Not trying to be critical, even. I have tried hard to convince others at GR of the many wonders of LT. But this is a roadblock for them. I never feel like I have a good answer as to why it is this way and possibly will never be an option.

>21 DebiCates: A lot of us see the increasing toxicity on GR review comments and don't want that here. I'm glad you've had a good experience with them, but I see so many over there that are just full of trolls or sycophants and there is no real discussion of the merits of the book.

Dropping a comment on someone's thread saying you liked their review may seem like a huge thing to you because you're coming from a place where that's not common, but it's really not a big deal on LT.

>21 DebiCates: The direction that is unappealing is "becoming more like GoodReads". It's not about whether *I* can turn off review comments on *my* reviews, it's about whether LibraryThing is the kind of site that allows/encourages review comments or the kind of site where reviews stand on their own. The site I want to be on is the latter.

>21 DebiCates: There is something that happens, more frequently over on GoodReads than other places, called "The Author's Big Mistake" which is directly linked to comments on reviews. No place is honestly immune, but Librarything has had limited problems with it.

That mistake is an author having an immediate access to the review and its reviewer, usually releasing their rude, often toxic response, to any review that isn't glowing or 5 star. The authors attempt to defend every word choice, every plot decision, etc, that the reviewer felt failed in the book. It almost always leads to the author looking like an absolute boob, and losing more readers than gaining them.

It was one reason why I hated GR early on, and their lack of moderation and control of late makes it worse.

>24 gilroy: I'm lucky that the only time an author commented on my review was to say they were sorry the book didn't work for me. It was a very courteous comment, but it freaked me out: why was she doing that to herself?!

I hope every one here is clear that I am not pitting GR and LT against one another.

I'm sorry about the anxiety this question and mention of GR causes. I am trying to understand something that is baffling to many, as clearly indicated by the numerous discussions that have been had here already. It just doesn't seem to make sense to those who, well, to those who it doesn't make sense to.

I appreciate all of those of you that have patience and took the opportunity to explain your perspectives and experience. Most helpful, thank you.

What I think I hear primarily is the concern the toxicity some associate with GR (and/or elsewhere). And that is what you don't want to attract here by adding comments on reviews. Whether it be on your own review or allowed to infiltrate on any review.

Have I got the crux of it?

I can only share my own experience. I have seen awful behaviors on social media (I don't go to those places.) However, I've been on GR since 2013 and never encountered toxicity on any comment I've made anywhere there, not even by an author (it's against the rules there too). I asked the large group of us who have discussed moving to LT and no one experienced more than once or twice a moment's unhappiness on GR, before pressing the delete button, shooing them away with wit, or ignoring them into oblivion. Myself, I have experienced none. Perhaps I've just been lucky.

It's been a lovely time on GR.

All I'm saying is that I'm here to make a good go of it and am going to miss something I liked a lot there, that connecting book by book you might say, without being too forward (DM) or shouting in public (Group).

LT offers so much. And I love it. In spite of the comment roadblock, I have been sharing on GR that LT is a magical place to go, oh you weary souls, come give it a try.

P.S. Lastly, to curt comments, Welcome to LibraryThing! is the group where we newbies are sent with our questions.

>25 amanda4242: Poor thing. You. And her.

>24 gilroy: I've seen a few still try. Mostly new authors. They get sent away quickly, peacefully. Then the next new author comes along. They cry buckets elsewhere about how unfair a bad review on GR is. Old hands are tougher.

>22 amanda4242: Dropping a comment on someone's thread saying you liked their review may seem like a huge thing to you because you're coming from a place where that's not common, but it's really not a big deal on LT.

Amanda, this was especially helpful. It's still not my preference (group for semi-private convos) but now that I am becoming more aware of the role of the 75 group (thanks to you also), I see that is sort of a "yes, here you can comment on my reading" place.

Have I got that right?

Do some there have a Do Not Disturb sign? If so, what should I be on the lookout for? I really like to avoid confrontations. Banter yes. Anger, no.

>26 DebiCates: Look at it a different way: what would LibraryThing gain from adding review comments?

People have been discussing books and making friends on LT for 20 years without review comments on work pages, so obviously they aren't necessary for conversations or friendship. Yes, there is some extra effort involved, but that also means you have extra time to think about what you're posting.

>29 DebiCates: Reading the group description and looking at several threads will give an idea of the group's expectations. The Diogenes Club is clearly not a group for talk, but places like the various challenge and genre groups are welcoming places for conversation.

>30 amanda4242: I could answer that first question with an influx of GR members. But I won't because that would be further incendiary, I'm afraid. I'm now worn out by fiery, even petulant, banter today.

Amanda, you do know all the fun places! The Diogenes Club is a hoot. A LONG TIME hoot.

>31 DebiCates: We have gotten members who were driven from GR by comments.

Long term members do need to remember that this is the first time new members are asking questions that we've discussed to death years ago, but please have some patience for us old timers who get the same questions every time GR does something to piss off a swath of its members. :)

>32 amanda4242: I appreciate more perspective. Really, thank you.

Yes, I heard that early on, about the terrible experiences on GR. I believe them. I also believe my own experience. Is there a time lapse between the two maybe?

I did ask a question that has been asked to death, I know. I thought maybe it would have a different answer, one I could take back to explain, and everyone would say, "Oh, yes, I see." But they won't see if I tell them GR is full of trolls and sycophants and that is what LT is avoiding. Because that is just not their experience. The good news is I explained already to 250 others, so if they come, they likely won't expect it and won't ask. Hopefully by that time, if GR goes 404, I can give them pointers gained by all the helpful peeps here for shortcuts and fun places to get social clubbing again.

We are all readers hoping for a kindly, cozy home with all the appliances, and secured locks we feel we need to comfortably experience a good book. I understand that. And don't begrudge anyone for it.

>29 DebiCates: There's no reason anyone would post about books on Talk if they don't want to talk to people about them! One should read the room a bit if they want to heartily disagree (e.g. maybe don't argue against feminism in the feminism group) but that's literally what Talk is for. Talking about books!

>31 DebiCates: There have been many influxes of users from GR before, and there will be many more in the future. Some of them stay but most of them don't.

>33 DebiCates: No one is saying that GR is full of trolls and sycophants. There's a lot of overlap in users between the two sites. To continue your analogy, we welcome GR users to be our new roommates and we want them to be comfortable and safe, but we're not going to change the wallpaper for them until after they've been here awhile, and it's a little grating to be asked to do that over and over again. If GR users can't accept the answer "LibraryThing believes that reviews should stand on their own and does not allow comments directly on them" then I don't know what else could be said that would be satisfactory.

>33 DebiCates: I don't doubt you've had a positive experience of review comments. Why else would you argue so passionately in their favor?

My differing view of them probably has a lot to do with different tastes in books: I may just read the types of books that attract crazies to the comments section. :)

>35 amanda4242: My differing view of them probably has a lot to do with different tastes in books: I may just read the types of books that attract crazies to the comments section. :)

My experience is within a tiny corner in GR based on similar general tastes in books. I do see now--and concede--there may be ongoing negative experiences I just remarkably haven't run into. I have certainly seen keyboard crazies aplenty elsewhere.

Sigh.

Look, LT and GR are different. That is a good thing. Nobody is stuck with just one way of cataloging their books online. You can use one or the other or both. Whatever suits your particular needs or likes. But let them be different. We get very tired of people coming and saying how wonderful LT is, and so different from GR, and it's great! Now just make it more like GR. Stop! The point is that they are different. The point is NOT to create a hybrid of the two. Besides which, if you asked 20 people who know both sites which aspects belong in the super site, you would probably get at least 20 different answers.

When it comes to reviews, I don't want comments on my reviews, I don't want to comment on other people's reviews, I don't want to see comments when I look at reviews. I don't want it on recent reviews, and I really, really don't want comments now on reviews from 15 years ago.

Now you say this could be opt-in, and wouldn't affect anybody who doesn't want it. Bit once you create an expectation that there could be comments it changes the whole ambiance. Soon you will have people complaining that they want to comment on the reviews, and why can't they comment on the reviews they want to comment on.

You can create a reading log in any of several groups. You can post your review to that topic. If you don't think that gives you enough comments, you could even add a line to the review, "Comments welcome at URL." Or you can post your reviews on GR and get comments there. You do not need a major change to the feel of LT.

Perhaps LT could consider issuing a complete, clear answer, "Comments on Reviews, Why We Will Never Have Them."

Then, when a newbie, from GR and especially if GR takes a deep dive into oblivion, asks again, helpers, weary of answering the same old question, could point to that URL.

I offer this suggestion because a well-crafted neutral response would be helpful and, if not more welcoming, at least not unwelcoming. Equally important this could save wear and tear on the helpers who kindly follow this board and tirelessly offer so much personalize help.

Thank you all for your comments, your perspectives, and your good suggestions.

>38 DebiCates: If you follow the last (most recent) link I posted in >20 norabelle414:, https://www.librarything.com/topic/358366, you will see Tim (the owner) say "No. This is a deliberate choice. We want reviews to stand on their own, not serve as a locus for disagreement."

If that's not clear enough then nothing ever will be.

>39 norabelle414: I think she meant more along the lines of an FAQ. Having LT's official policy clearly stated somewhere other than talk would be helpful, both for new members to find and for old members to easily point to.

>40 amanda4242: Yes, a FAQ would work, Amanda. Or anywhere that suits LT as the official URL to share, a statement making it clear it is not under consideration with an optional explanation. It would save future inquiries that simply cannot really go anywhere.

ETA: ...anywhere productive, I meant. Save time for everyone.

>39 norabelle414: But nobody knows about it unless you tell them. I've been on LT for years, this is the first I've heard of it.

I've written up an RSI asking for LT's stance on review comments to be added to the FAQ page.

https://www.librarything.com/topic/374282

>43 amanda4242: ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ Thank you, Amanda!

There is a somewhat quiet group - https://www.librarything.com/ngroups/7943/Review-Discussions please join, post your review (much easier now!) and ask for thoughts. The more people who join, the more discussion there will be.

>45 reading_fox: I will check that out. Thank you for sharing it. There's so much to find on LT that help is much appreciated.