Comments on Reviews

I was reading a review today about a historical novel where the reader stated that the book was basically too cliche because it dealt with a guy that got around and then he met a girl that was different because she spoke her mind.

I wanted so badly to be able to comment (connected to the review) reminding those reading the review that the novel is HISTORICAL!!! Imagine it being cliche... There is a reason something is considered "cliche," typically in a historical novel it means it was a part of history.

There have been a number of reviews that I have seen that deserve a sidenote (or at least a rating of if a review was helpful or what we'd rate the review--like Amazon does.) These reviews aren't poor enough to be flagged but it would be nice to give a perspective on the review (especially if you are not ready to review the work yet, yourself.)

I'm afraid your crazy idea might make some people feel bad about themselves, which means we can't do it. See http://www.librarything.com/talktopic.php?topic=37428 for other opinions.

leave a comment on the reviewers profile. Be polite, and as it says be nice! Just click on their name to be taken there.

Generally LT users welcome discussion about books they've read.

Of course if you are critisizing someone elses review, your comments will be better accepted if you have written a few reviews yourself, hopefully at least on the book you're commenting on.

> 1

These reviews aren't poor enough to be flagged

Reviews should never be flagged because they are "poor", no matter how poor that is. They should be flagged only if they violate the terms of service or are not a review at all (for instance, "tbr" or "$4.98").

The simplest way to address this is to write your own review. There's nothing that prevents you from addressing other reviews. I've done it once or twice, and as long as I'm nice about it, I think it's appropriate.

I really don't like the idea of comments on reviews. I agree that such a feature could be abused and used to make the reviewers feel bad.

Once in the past I felt inspired to comment on a review and made the comment on the reviewers profile. It wasn't anything bad, just an alternate opinion about the book. I had actually hoped it might open a friendly dialogue.

I commented on a user's profile once, because there was a factual error in a review (they suggested that Diane Duane's Young Wizards series was a ripoff of the HP books, which is impossible since the first YW came out, I don't know, a decade or more before the first HP book).

If someone cares so much about making a comment, put it (politely) on their profile. The person I commented to thanked me for the information and altered their review.

I don't think reviews mentioning other reviews is a good idea. For one thing the review being commented on might be changed. For another thumbs could alter the order of the reviews and the person reading your review doesn't know what you're talking about or has to search for the other review. I've run across several of the reviews that talk about other reviews and it's usually just annoying.

> 8

I agree! I 've sen reviews that say something like "I disagree with the previous review because . . ." Well, there may be a lot of previous reviews, and the immediately previous review may differ depending on whether I'm looking at them in date order or vote order or title order (or reverse date/vote/title order). It's confusing and annoying!

>5 drneutron: I agree with #5 - write your own review! That's the best way to counter a review where you feel that someone is sending the wrong message in their review about a book.

Also, think about the intent of the reviewer - perhaps they felt that the cliche was in "guy that gets around is suddenly snapped to his senses by girl that challenges him" and not so much the "gal who speaks her mind" part.

I have to admit that this is a pretty common cliche - and I always wonder why these strong-willed women are even remotely attracted to a guy that basically uses women myself. It's never made any sense to me at all - you're a strong-willed woman (past or present) and you're wanting to go for the guy that's slept with half the city because he's different for you. I would have assumed that was his way "in" with most of his conquests...

8>

I've commented on other reviews in my review on occasion, but not by doing something as silly as mentioning "the previous review" -- I just said something along the lines of "Reviews saying XYZ may give the wrong impression, because...." (The review in question is here; it is probably relevant that this is hardly Harry Potter, and that most of a year after I posted my review there are still only three reviews in total.)

> 11

I cannot understand it! Surely the book you review there is far more popular than Harry Potter! Why so few reviews?

;-))

Reviews are opinions. I may not agree with your opinion, but I will fight for your right to have yours... and me mine.

I think that spending energy on being frustrated with someones review, or reviewing capabilities is ridiculous. If you don't like what you are reading, move on.

If you totally disagree with a review, then write one of your own, expressing your opinion.

As for worrying about LT caring about being a "nice" site... well kudos to them. It is far too easy for the capability of rating someone else to be abused. Too many not so nice people or people who simply take pleasure in putting another down are on all community sites. No ones opinion is more valid than another's.

In my opinion, that is .

I don't understand the need to comment/rate other people's review. Just write a review yourself. If you really do have questions/comments/differing opinions and you don't feel like writing a review, just post a comment to that member.

Creating a whole new system to criticize reviews when there is already a system in place that would work for this and there are so many unreviewed books just seems... I don't know... out of place?

>12 lilithcat: I never said I was much better at giving out my own advice than taking it!

=P

13+

I think we are talking about different things.

Go read my review, and the one I'm commenting on. I'm not saying "This person is wrong or stupid"; I'm saying "A specific statement in another review, while correct, may give an incorrect impression". (To be specific, this is a review of a field guide. Another reviewer said there were surprisingly few photographs. I pointed out that most of the illustrations were drawings, rather than photos -- otherwise, someone could easily interpret "few photos" as "few illustrations".) If that's being unwelcoming, then I give up.

Look, reviews are for the benefit of OTHER PEOPLE. If you want to say something about a book purely for your own benefit, there's nothing wrong with that, but maybe you should do so as a private comment?

If there were photographs and drawings and the reviewer stated there were surpprisingly few "photographs", maybe that is what the reviewer intended to say. You are stating there are more drawings than photographs. Sounds like the same thing to me, just presented in a different manner. The best thing would be to contact the person who wrote that review if it really bothers you. Personnaly, I don't think it is my place to edit another person's reviews.

Er, it didn't bother me. I provided an additional piece of information for people reading the reviews.

Good grief. Shall I now stop writing reviews altogether, out of fear that I mention something mentioned in another context by other reviewers? This is getting silly.

> 8 (and everyone following)

Yes, I just recently reviewed something in which the previous review had a factual error (they said the book was the 2nd in a series, but it was actually the first). In my review, I made a point of mentioning it was the first book introducing the character(s), but didn't mention the other review. I mean, they may edit or delete it, and I don't want to call them out, I'm sure it was an honest mistake.

#19 - Timepiece,

I just recently reviewed something in which the previous review had a factual error (they said the book was the 2nd in a series, but it was actually the first).

If I made a mistake in a review like that, I would be happy to get a message from another user. It would show that someone was reading and paying attention to my review. It's not like you are making a comment on the quality of that reviewers writing or anything like that.

(Out of curiosity, was the review for a book by Ivan Doig? He has a trilogy of books where the second book takes place before the first and figuring out what order to read them in is a mess.)

> 20

No, it was Too Sane a Murder, Lee Martin.

Not my best review, but I haven't actually read it for a while. And I don't want to give away too many plot points and ruin it for anyone willing to give it a try.

#4 When I said "poor" I was trying to nicely say what you put so eloquently about it not following the rules.

#10 Those are the words that the reviewer used. Not my personal opinion... (So obviously, that's what they WERE saying.)

Regardless, I definitely like a button that says if a review was helpful or not.

I would write my own review but I have yet to read the whole book... Also, when I contacted the person all I got was a nasty response!

22

You are a classic example of wanting to mark a review as unhelpful because you disagree with it.

There is no reason an historical novel cannot be cliched and crappy, the same as any other.

It is quite possible in this case you are the one that is wrong.

16: Just have to comment on something here. You say "reviews are for OTHER PEOPLE".... but that simply isn't true for many people. I don't review my books for other people, I review them because I want to, because I have something that I want to say about the book. I don't care if other people even read my review, let alone agree with it or understand it. I follow the rules, ie my reviews are indeed reviews and mine, but they are for my own benefit, just as the rest of my catalogue is. I know there are others who share that opinion.

# 24 I follow the rules, ie my reviews are indeed reviews and mine, but they are for my own benefit, just as the rest of my catalogue is. I know there are others who share that opinion.

I know I do! There are several recommended improvements that touches on this subject - thumbs down, commenting on others reviews - and I think they are unnecessary and in opposition to the - MY - idea of LT. I write reviews the way I want to, in my catalogue. If someone else enjoys it, thats great. But that is not the purpose of my reviewing, and just because I write a review doesn't mean I want to get into a dialogue about it.

There are so may ways to start a discussion on LT already, as well as ways to find 'good' reviews.
More time reviewing, less time thinking up ways to criticise existing reviews, please:-)

24>

my reviews....are for my own benefit

Then why not make them private comments? If you really think "Nobody else can possibly benefit from reading this", why expose it to public view? And if you DO think others could benefit, well, then they're for other people as well as for yourself, and my statement in #16 applies, I think.

I like to review the books I read and try to do so thoughtfully. I have had two blue flagged (and amended them to hopefully improve them) but I have had several more green thumbed.

If I made a factual mistake then I would be happy for someone to contact me and say so but if they just didn't like my choice of words I'd feel a bit annoyed about being contacted or rated in some way.

I am happy with the current system for flagging things that breach TOS or aren't reviews and putting a green thumb on what I think are especially helpful reviews but I don't think it needs to be taken further. After all, LT is a book catalogue site that offers a feature for book reviews, not a review reviewing site.

I recently bought Shannon Hale's book The Book of a Thousand Days because a misleading newspaper review made it sound like a book for adults rather than older children. I was very annoyed when it arrived (I ordered it online) but read it anyway and actually quite liked it as a childrens book. I could have written to the newspaper book section to complain about the misleading review but I took the view that life is too short. If it had been on here and the feature to comment or thumbs down a review existed I might have used it in bad temper because it was easily available but ultimately I think those kinds of features are unfair and I know I would have regretted any comment or rating I had made in temper.

If someone has taken the time and trouble to write a review who am I to complain if I disagree with it or just don't like how it was written? It might not help me, but the next person to read it might think it's really useful to them.

A few of the reviews here have helped me, most haven't and a couple have been in need of Red or Blue flaggs but I haven't seen one review that honestly deserves a thumbs down from me or anyone else. I think that anyone strongly disagreeing with a review would best counter it by writing a review of the book themselves, rather than flagging, rating or making comments about the ones already in place.

# 26 Then why not make them (reviews) private comments?

Because they are reviews, and as such belongs in the review field, not the private comment field or any other field.

ETA clarifying note in quote.

26 lorax

Then why not make them private comments?

Because there is a column titled "Reviews". Why should anyone have to justify putting a review in the review column? That's ridiculous.

A few of the reviews here have helped me, most haven't and a couple have been in need of Red or Blue flags but I haven't seen one review that honestly deserves a thumbs down from me or anyone else. I think that anyone strongly disagreeing with a review would best counter it by writing a review of the book themselves, rather than flagging, rating or making comments about the ones already in place.

Well said, Jodyreadseverything. Those are my sentiments exactly.

I think that anyone strongly disagreeing with a review would best counter it by writing a review of the book themselves, rather than flagging, rating or making comments about the ones already in place.

So do I, as it happens, but some people on this thread are objecting to writing a review if it mentions in a slightly different context anything mentioned in a previous review. Those of us who want reviews to be for the benefit of people other than the reviewer can't win.

Why mention the other review? Just write your own opinion.

I have no problem with the idea of responding to what other reviews say. I have in the past - not on LT, but when I posted occasionally on Amazon - said things like "As opposed to what some other reviewers have said..." or whatever.

Hear hear jwilson61

EXACTLY!

32>

Because it's not an opinion, it's a statement of fact.

Everyone is, as they say, entitled to their own opinion. Everyone is NOT entitled to their own facts, and if a previous review omits critical FACTS about the book I think it's valid to mention that.

(For the third time, the actual example under discussion here is of a field guide. A review mentioned that it didn't have many photographs. I mentioned that that was true, but that it did have a lot of drawings. For doing this I'm being treated as though I killed the other reviewer's puppy.)

#23
I am deeply offended by your comment about being a "classic example of wanting to mark a review as unhelpful because you disagree with it." I do not disagree with the review as a whole. I just think it should be noted that the reviewer may be mistaking history for cliche. And anyway, reviews that I "disagree" with are usually the ones that make me want to read a book more...

It is obvious knowing the way some people can be that actually "commenting" on reviews wouldn't be the best course of action (as is evident from the nasty response I received from the reviewer that I politely messaged.)

But I would still love a "This review was helpful" or "This review was NOT helpful." Especially if I've been looking at purchasing a book for a while and it has a number of reviews. I would easily be able to sort out what I found helpful and ignore what I didn't find helpful.

A member writes a review for a number of reasons but not for the benefit of any one specific reader. I may or may not enjoy a book, however, that does not mean I will write a negative review. Each of us is unique in his or her reading preferences. Reviews written to appeal to those who enjoy one genre may not meet the requirements of those reading books of another genre.

When writing a review, one might mention holding a different opinion of a work compared to other reviewers, but I don’t think it is necessary to single out an individual reviewer. There are venues within the LT system for contacting reviewers for private discussions and talking about areas of concern through public forums.

I’ve seen reviews with only one word. They are reviews if they give an opinion. LT requires little of us, other than that we do not plagiarize and I often see the words “be kind.”

It would be different if LT reviewers were paid for reviews and one felt another was collecting more money for less work. However, none of us writes reviews on LT for the big bucks. I hope we do it for enjoyment.

I think some of the suggestions on this topic are taking the fun out. If it’s not fun, why bother.

#23 - I think the confusion is coming in as to what you're assuming the original reviewer is calling "cliche." Here's what you stated:

...where the reader stated that the book was basically too cliche because it dealt with a guy that got around and then he met a girl that was different because she spoke her mind.

I wanted so badly to be able to comment...reminding those reading the review that the novel is HISTORICAL!!! Imagine it being cliche... There is a reason something is considered "cliche," typically in a historical novel it means it was a part of history.

Here's are some issues with your comment:

- Cliche has nothing to do with historical context. Cliche just means trite and overused. I guarantee you that right after Beowulf was first presented, another epic poet wrote a poem a week later about fighting monsters and someone went, "monsters again - he's being so cliche!"

- What, exactly, is your assumed non-cliche in this? I read it and assumed you thought the cliche was the out-spoken woman. I thought you considered this to not be a cliche simply because, depending on the era, your submissive and quiet women are the norm.

- Right now, you seem to be stating that a "historical" novel is free from being branded "cliche." I'm actually questioning your use of historical at the moment. Do you mean "historical" as in "written and published in the 1800s" or do you mean, "a story written today but set in the past?" There's a rather large gap between the two meanings. If someone calls Beowulf cliche, that's a bit of a stretch - if someone calls Eragon cliche, that's not so much of a stretch considering all of the magical realm novels that have come before it and all of those that will come after it...

I would put on you that you came here asking to have comments put on reviews for a seemingly horrible mistake in a review. At the same time, you want no one here to demonstrate to you that you're likely splitting hairs and would comment needlessly on their review. You want to slam a reviewer for calling something "cliche," but you're only defence is "it's historical." That's a complete non sequitor - cliche has no more relation to historical than cows have to trucks. Yes, cows can ride on trucks, but a truck doesn't cease being a truck due to the lack of a cow...

> 38

I thought perhaps "historical" in this case meant a fictionalised version of something that really happened. In which case the author couldn't help it if it was a cliché, and the demand to avoid clichés would be, effectively, a demand that the book be an "alternate history" rather than an "historical" or "biographical" novel.

#38 It's a historical fiction. The reviewer stated that the plot was cliche. But the plot follows the actually historic events. Yes the events, I suppose, could be "cliche," although, the reviewer is acting as if the events were made up.

I am not looking to "slam a reviewer." There will always be people out there that will write a horrible review for a book and I will disagree with it, but I wouldn't hold that against the reviewer. I just think it should be noted that "cliche" is not an accurate description of the plot.

#39 Thank you for putting it so elegantly!

I have since said (as it is obvious that not everyone would be polite with the option) that at least a "this review was helpful" and "this review was not helpful" checkbox would be nice.
I never said that because a book is historic it can't be cliche. You assume that's what is being said.

But there is already a "this review was helpful" "checkbox", but in this case it's actually a thumbs up.