Plato

Anybody currently reading Plato?
What do you think about his works?
I'll receive the complete works of Plato (9 volumes in Norwegian) in a few days and am interested to hear what other members think about it.

kjellika,
I only began delving into philosophy a couple of years ago, so I still have a lot to learn. Within the past few months I've begun reading Plato's works themselves and it's been a wonderful experience. So far, I've read Plato's "Last Days of Socrates". I particularly enjoyed the Phaedo. Currently I'm reading "The Republic." I'm on Book VII right now.

Reading Plato's works themselves has been interesting and rewarding. I've read so much about Plato in general philosophy books or have read other philosopher's references to him, that it's a pleasure to read his writings for myself. It's both new and very familiar at the same time.

The experience of reading Plato is like finally meeting a friend of a friend: You've heard so much about him that you feel you know him already, but getting to know him for yourself is so much better.

Enjoy!

#2
Thanks, pmackey.
I suppose I'll receive Plato's complete works soon.
I've read rather much ABOUT him and his philosophy, and am rereading some of it now. Interesting.
We (group members and/or others) might discuss a little of WHAT he wrote later on??

I'm glad to see this thread. I have studied Plato fairly extensively, and always welcome an opportunity to exchange thoughts with others about his works. There is much to discuss in any of Plato's dialogues, and Plato himself preferred discussion with others over individual reading in isolation. This is a great idea: let's make it happen.

Christopher Riels

As Alfred North Whitehead famously said, "The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato."

Plato's dialogues are divided by scholars into three chronological periods: early, middle, and late. This order is important because it reflects various discernible stages in his philosophical development, and it should be followed in reading his dialogues, for both this philosophical reason and for the practical reason that his works become more difficult to read at each successive stage.

Three of Plato's early works, which are often read consecutively, are the Euthyphro, Apology (Defense) of Socrates, and Crito; each is quite short. I recommend the translation of those three short works by David Gallop in the Oxford World's Classics Series titled, Defense of Socrates Euthyphro Crito. Here is the edition I have:
http://www.amazon.com/Defence-Socrates-Euthyphro-Oxford-Classics/dp/0192838644/r...

It is now out in a reissue; how it differs from the first, or whether it does at all, I do not know. Either way, the translation itself has not changed.

I recommend beginning with either the Euthyphro or the Apology ("Defense").

I haven't got the Norwegian edition of Plato's complete works yet (cf. #1), so I don't know if it is chronological, but all the same:
Thanks for your advices, criels.

By the way: What means 'Euthyphro'?

"Euthyphro" is the name of the person with whom Socrates talks in the dialogue. The name doesn't have any other meaning of which I'm aware.

And, I'm sorry I recommended an English translation when you'll obviously be using Norwegian.

#8
That's ok.
Still waiting for the Norwegian edition.

No hurry to start the Plato. I certainly have plenty of things to read until then.

No hurry to start the Plato. I certainly have plenty of things to read until then.

I received the Norwegian edition of Plato's complete works yesterday, and I'll start reading the rather long introducton in a few days (after finishing some current reading).

#12 (kjellika), Congratulations on getting your books. I saw where the books had recently been added by you, then saw your post. I hope you enjoy reading Plato as much as I am.

Paul

#6
Volume I of my Norwegian edition of 'Plato' contains:

Introduction (by Øivind Andersen)

Protagoras

Euthyphro (Norw. spelling: Euthyfron)

Apology (Defense (of Socrates)) (Norw.: 'Forsvarstalen', Forsvar=Defense, talen=The Speech)

Crito (Norw. spelling: Kriton)

I've started reading the introduction (approx. 60 pages), and it's very interesting so far. I'll have to read more of it to learn if this version is "chronological". Do 'we' know when Plato wrote his dialogues/letters, and where is 'Protagoras' (perhaps a different English spelling?) in the English edition(s)?

The order of Plato's dialogues is unknown, but there is fairly general agreement about where each one falls within the scheme of Early, Middle, or Late. The following chronology, from the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy, attempts to be more precise than most others I have seen, and I would not take its suggestions about the order of individual dialogues very seriously. The fact is that the chronology of Plato's dialogues remains controversial, even in fairly broad terms, and many of the countless chronological lists that have been--and still are being-- published differ wildly from each other. Thus, a list as ambitiously precise as this one is virtually certain to contain errors in its particulars. Nevertheless, this chronology is sufficiently representative of such general agreement as exists:

Early
(All after the death of Socrates, but before Plato's first trip to Sicily in 387 B.C.E.):

Apology, Charmides, Crito, Euthydemus, Euthyphro, Gorgias, Hippias Major, Hippias Minor, Ion, Laches, Lysis, Protagoras, Republic Bk. I.

Early-Transitional
(Either at the end of the early group or at the beginning of the middle group, c. 387-380 B.C.E.):

Cratylus, Menexenus, Meno

Middle
(c. 380-360 B.C.E.)

Phaedo, Republic Bks. II-X, Symposium

Late-Transitional
(Either at the end of the middle group, or the beginning of the late group, c. 360-355 B.C.E.)

Parmenides, Theaetetus, Phaedrus

Late
(c. 355-347 B.C.E.; possibly in chronological order)

Sophist, Statesman, Philebus, Timaeus, Critias, Laws

kjellika: The Protagoras is usually considered one of the later dialogues within the Early period.

The Norwegian introduction to 'the complete Plato' is very informative, discussing the chronology of the dialogues and describing some of the characters, and I suppose I'll return to this intro during my reading of 'Plato'.

I'll soon start with 'Protagoras', the first dialogue in volume 1, hoping it's not too difficult. Fortunately there are lots of notes at the end of each dialogue. The introduction (there is an intro to each of the dialogues as well) says there are no real conclusions and/or solutions of the problem(s).
Interesting.
I imagine I've read somewhere that Socrates is called a "midwife" (for thoughts)??

I've been reading Plato for possible insights into the modern articulation of the concept of recognition as expounded by such thinkers as Hegel and Paul Ricoeur. Of course, this is proving insanely difficult. It's like looking for insights into quantum mechanics in the works of Galileo, you see the thing you want but too scattered and distorted to be easily read.

I haven't read any before, but I've just started reading the Symposium. I'd heard him mentioned by other writers all over the place, especially concerning the platonic planes of forms, or ideas, in mathematics, so felt like I should get round to reading some of his works sooner rather than later. I'm quite interested in philosophy too, and am finding Symposium entertaining so far.
I picked this book for a couple of pounds, its a hardback, but upon inspection it was a re-binding of 2 paperbacks put together. It includes the Hamilton translation of Symposium, and a selection of 3 dialogues with commentary by Dickinson. I don't know which are the best translations, but I'd like to get hold of the majority of his works, so if any one has suggestions of reputable editions containing a larger number of them then that would be great.

The complete works edited by, I think, Edith Hamilton gets cited a lot. I have it; it goes well with The Cambridge Companion to Plato.

Robert

The best way to start reading Plato's work is to start with the best written dialogues, Symposium (which was, by the way Nietzsche's favourite), Phaedrus, Apology.

Enjoy!

I enjoy reading Plato. The dialogues are about the basic questions of life and except for the names sound to me like contemporary discussions. I have never read The Republic. I have read about it and the society it envisions is not anywhere I would like to live. You also have to remember that politically Plato was very conservative. I am sure it had something to do with the execution of Socrates by the Athenian democracy.
I have read an anecdote about Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. that highlights one value of reading Plato. Supposedly when Holmes was about 90 and a Justice on the Supreme Court one of his clerks walked and asked what he was reading. He said it was Plato. The clerk asked why, thinking that by now Holmes certainly knew his Plato. Holmes replied, "To improve my mind." Reading Plato makes you think and helps to sharpen the faculty of critical thinking.

Although Plato has been regarded as one of the pre-eminent figures in Western philosophy, I would suggest that you read Plato as a stepping stone to understanding Aristotle. It seems pretty clear that the full extent of Greek philosophy can only be appreciated when Aristotle is read as the successor of the tradition bequeathed to him by, first, Socrates and then Plato.

With that being said, I am generally pretty, how shall I say, unhappy(?) with almost all of Western philosophy. But I still consider myself to be quite Aristotelian, atleast in the Alasdair MacIntyre sense (even though I am still quite critical of MacIntyre).

All in all, just because of Plato's status as an important figure in the development of Western philosophy, I would definitely recommend that any person interested in philosophy read Plato.

16 -- there's a midwife reference in the Symposium someplace, I believe.

Socrates' teaching style was likened to midwifery by Plato and others since. By engaging people in conversation, he'd assist them to 'bring forth' certain ideas/conclusions on their own, like a midwife helping someone give birth. (There's an example of that discussed in Theaetetus.)

Symposium is definitely my favorite. :)

The best way to read Plato is to realize that you'll never finish: there will always be dialogues that you haven't read, or insights that elude you, or something to make re-reading him necessary.
Reading Plato is key (in my opinion) to understanding almost every other thinker (the pre-Socratic philosopers excepted, of course). Even tho' Plato is almost certainly wrong about a lot of things, and certainly wrong about many things and even some important thing, he is absolutely the best thing to read (the Iliad excepted).

Crito, Apology, Euthyphro are excellent.

>7 kjellika: & 8: a little late as an answer, but still...

euthy-phro, or in full Greek euthu-frôn, is made up of 2 parts:
euthu(s) means "straight (=not curved); (fig.) just" and frôn is derived from the root meaning "to think", as in the Greek verb 'fronô'.

So, Euthyphro means something like "the straight thinker, the just thinker" - which, in the case of Plato's dialogue, is kind of ironical, as mr Euthyphro thinks he's the just thinker, not being able to think out of the norms / laws. This is precisely what Sokrates is trying to make clear to Euthyphro.
So, this dialogue could be entitled "Those who think in straight lines"