Looking for a different type of fantasy...

My love for reading was built primarily on fantasy, but lately I've noticed that everything I'm reading follows the same formula as LotR and it's starting to drive me slightly crazy. I discovered the Black Jewels Trilogy lately, by Anne Bishop, and fell in love with the series, but apart from that, there's no fantasy I'll read. Does anyone know of any fantasy that doesn't follow the same formula (undiscovered, ordinary hero must take on a task to save the world)? I would love any suggestions anyone could make.

I really love the Gormenghast books by Mervyn Peake. The setting is hard to pin down. The last book could almost make the rest qualify as steampunk, but it doesn't have that feel throughout. But it's not "high fantasy." It's more like Gothic fantasy... a grim, monstrously huge castle... a large cast of Dickensian characters... humor and horror mixed. Peake has an incredible vocabulary and his writing style mesmerizes me.

The books are definitely long, but very satisfying. I'm not crazy about the last one, and almost wish he ended it after the second book. I never reread the third, but I probably should next time I reread the series. They are, in order, Titus Groan, Gormenghast, and Titus Alone.

Might try Brandon Sanderson's trilogy Mistborn or Patrick Rothfuss's Name of the Wind. I don't really consider either of them to follow the pattern you're talking about.

For something totally different than the run-of-the-mill fantasy, try Steven Erikson's Malazan series starting with Gardens of the Moon. It is set in a very interesting, complex world with rich characters and definately does not follow the LOTR script.

I also think you might enjoy Patrick Rothfuss's The Name of the Wind. Closer to your normal fantasy setting than Erikson, but with a unique approach.

The Wars of Light and Shadow by Janny Wurts starting with The Curse of the Mistwraith is also pretty unique and a series I would definately recommend.

I think the Inkheart trilogy is great. It's kind of an alternate world series. It's rather complex and the plot is entirely driven by the characters, who make decisions good and bad throughout. For me, it was rather unpredictable.

I'm reading Name of the Wind right now and enjoying it.

I've also recently read The Lies of Locke Lamora and the sequel, Red Seas under Red Skies. The first is one of the best books I've read in years.

Melusine by Sarah Monette was very good and I thought it was very different as well.

Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman is set in an imagined London underground and is quite unusual.

I enjoyed Name of the Wind, but I definitely think it follows the fantasy "quest" formula.

I enjoyed Guy Gavriel Kay's The Lions of Al-Rassan, which is less formulaic as well. Personally, I find the more "steam-punk-ish" fantasies to be more interesting in terms of plotting than those of traditional epic fantasies.

Anything by Guy Gavriel Kay other than the Fionavar trilogy, the Jhereg series by Steven Brust, anything by Nina Kiriki Hoffman with the exception of Catalyst--Start with The Thread that Binds the Bones or Red Heart of Memories, fantasy by Emma Bull, Patricia McKillip, and Robin McKinley, Barry Hughart's The Bridge of Birds and its sequels, Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman (then go on to their solo books), Changer by Jane Lindskold and its sequel, The Curse of Chalion and Paladin of Souls by Lois McMaster Bujold, The Eyre Affair and sequels by Jasper Fforde, anything by Patricia Wrede or Diana Wynne Jones (but Dark Lord of Derkholm is a great place to start), God Stalk and sequels by P. C. Hodgell, The Anubis Gates and other fantasy by Tim Powers--just a few places to start!

>10 ronincats:, Well, I must say you don't hold back!

I think I can say I now safely have enough fantasy literature to look into to keep me happy for a long, long time. Although, please feel free to keep making recommendations. I don't mind adding more books to my wishlist at all!

I'd shied away from most fantasy for many years (preferring sci-fi) until the past couple years, where Erikson's incredible Malazan Book of the Fallen (previously mentioned) and the discussion forums I found soon afterword led me to try out many different new (and old!) authors, while still avoiding the stereotypical Brooks/Jordan/Feist/etc. stuff. A couple of standout recommendations I can make after the past year or two:

Gene Wolfe's The Wizard Knight duology
Glen Cook's Black Company series
Roger Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber
David Gemmell's Legend
Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell
Peter V. Brett's The Warded Man
Matthew Stover's Acts of Caine (disclaimer: not for the sensitive/squeamish)

Also, I see you've got Card's Alvin Maker series in your library. I would also suggest his excellent books Wyrms and Treason which read like fantasy, even if they're really sci-fi.

Try the Tears of Artemon trilogy by Sarah Ash, a very good series, and seemed pretty original to me. The first book is called Lord of Snow and Shadows followed by Prisoner of the Iron Tower and the third book Children of the Serpent Gate

The Scion trilogy by rebecca bradley have a less-than-heroic lead character who has a nice line in sarcasm. Lady in Gil is the first in the series.

Martha Wells writes fantasies with the most original settings, particularly recommended are the death of the necromancer, the wizard hunters, or wheel of the infinite.

Fortress in the eye of time and sequels, from a more normally SF author, this is very intrueging magic system in a distinctly non- Journey Quest / Magic trinket / pigboy style.

Or you can go back into the traditions and start with dragonlance

Then there's the whole field of Urban fantasy for you to explore from the dark and surreal perdido street station through investigations of Harry dresden into the more paranormal romances and werewolves of which Maneater is less romancy and more gritty than most.

Andrzej Sapkowski's witcher novels are great stuff - the main character is not a classical hero, he has to judge if a monster needs to be slain or if it's actually innocent, he is, in short, an anti-hero with doubts about himself and his place in the world. When he's first introduced, he comes across like a total bastard but after a while you start liking this guy as his story slowly unfolds. Haven't read all the books yet - there are, I think, about 7 or 8 of them - but I definitely can recommend the writer.

You guys are all so wonderful! I'm beside myself, I have so many fantasy books to read now. I just finished The Lies of Locke Lamora and it was perfect! Just what I was looking for and I can't wait to read the second book.

Not to say, of course, that I don't plan on reading anything else on the list. I just have no idea where to start, there's so many options (although SuLa, that witcher series seems mighty interesting...)

One of the criteria you put up is Fantasy that is not in the quest motif as is LOTR.

I have to search my list of good ones to recommend and find ones that are not quest as so many are. Even ones listed above, may not seem like a quest, but in the end we encounter the bad thing/creature/power and the good overcomes it. Very LOTR

You may want to look at the Janny Wurts/Ray Feist works Kelewan books. Part of Fantasy seems to see the triumph of that Good. The heart of LOTR when Tolkien looked at the defeat of the Central Powers

I guess when I said quest, I was thinking very literally of the term. Someone finds a magical artifact (LotR) or is mentioned in a prophecy (Sword of Truth, Wheel of Time, Sword of Shannara, Harry Potter, etc) and they go from being a farmer or some other virtual nobody to the savior of the world.

Can fantasy really exist without having that essential good vs evil battle at the end of the book? That always does seem to be the point of fantasy novels in the end. But then again, that shows up in a lot of other genres as well. Horror is often about overcoming something evil. Mystery is about solving a crime (a less dramatic version of the good vs evil battle but it's still there). Even a lot of classics have this battle in them, just not as forward as in fantasy. My knowledge of sci-fi is limited as I only recently discovered my love for the genre, but I'm sure it's a well-used theme there as well.

It's an interesting concept, though, fantasy without the good vs evil battle as it's central focus. I'll have to search for some out there. I'd like to read it...

There are several fantasies that deal with the political side and not labeling good versus evil, but us (good) versus them (bad) but if the story was told from their side it would look reversed I am sure. So there is no quest but they do follow a format of we triumph over the others. Robert Don Hughes Pelman series might have some appeal.

Then there are some stories such as Lest darkness Fall which is totally classic but is more alternative history as our hero is from per WWII falling back to the later 500's Rome, so no magic beyond his time travel, everything else is how he reacts. Then Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen also is displacement where our hero goes from our reality in the late 50's to a civilization in the same part of Pennsylvania but in a world that has kings and soldiers and the feel of the English Civil Wars for technology.

Military battles in both. No wizards or goblins.

Rebecca, I looked at your library and I have the recommendation for you... I haven't steered you wrong yet, right? Steven Brust and his series of Vlad Taltos. You gave The Three Musketeers five stars, so Vlad, The Phoenix Guards, Five Hundred Years After are ones you should go look at...

>21 DWWilkin:, I trust you completely when it comes to books ;-) To prove it, I have the Jhereg of the Vlad Taltos series and The Phoenix Guards coming my way. From the descriptions I've found of them, I'm almost positive I'll like them.

I swear, DWWilkin, you are horrible for my TBR pile. It's getting too big for my tiny little apartment! :P

When you graduate you can go get the big time job and get a palace, filling all the rooms up with books!

*drool*

I'll add a vote for The Curse of Chalion by Lois McMaster Bujold - it has basically no parallels with LOTR. Great characters with a story well told and a world well described. She also writes Sci-Fi which I haven't sampled yet, but will very soon.

A little late for a new suggestion, perhaps, but...did you ever try urban fantasy? I can recommend the Mercy Thompson series by Patricia Briggs (starting with Moon called), The Hollows series by Kim Harrison (Dead witch walking) and the Women of the Otherworld by Kelley Armstrong (Bitten). Definately worth a try!

If you like Locke Lamora, you might like the Nightrunner series by Lynn Flewelling (Luck in the shadows) and the Nightfall books by Mickey Zucker Reichert (The legend of Nightfall and The return of Nightfall).

>26 Ennas:, You're not too late all! I'm always open to new recommendations and I'll definitely be looking into yours. Thanks a lot!

There are a lot of good suggestions here, and I have to second Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn which kind of asks the question, what if Frodo kept the ring.

If you want something not at all like Tolkien you could try, Mr. Strange and Dr. Norrell about wizards in England during the Age of Napoleon--that is if you like long books

I also found The Bartimaeus Trilogy by Jonathan Stroud interesting, if you prefer demon-raising.

I would also suggest The Crown Conspiracy if you would like a fast moving medieval adventure about thieves caught up in mystery and intrigue--the sequel to which, Avempartha, just came out.

You might also consider Ken Follet's Pillars of the Earth which is an excellent novel about virtuous peasants and cruel nobles in twelfth century England. This also has a sequel that recently came out.

I am personally presently reading George RR Martin's Game of Thrones which I don't think anyone would compare to Tolkien, but I am only half way through it and so far I am losing a little interest as it has far more protagonist and locals than I can easily keep track of or care about.

>28 MichaelSullivan:, Oh dear. Does Game of Thrones kind of go the Wheel of Time route? Too many characters and too little plot don't make a very good story, unfortunately...

Game of Thrones started great, but it takes on a darker side as it goes longer, and it gets much much more off the path, then Wheel of time ever did.

The further that we get in it, the more convinced I am the GRRM has no planning on how this is going to work, and hence more minor characters keep showing up with giant histories, motivations, and whole novels of story lines. Taking us away from the people we were supposed to follow.

If you haven't started it yet, perhaps wait for more to be published. We have been waiting for the next book for years now.

It is hard enough waiting for all the series we are waiting for like Scott Lynch who has put forth that 7 book arc. Or WOT that has now said 3 more books in each of the coming Novembers.

Pillars of Earth and World without End are two great non fantasy medieval historical's that are worthwhile, as are Edward Rutherfurd books like Sarum and London, The Forest which go beyond that time period but give you the feeling nevertheless.

>30 DWWilkin:, I own the first four books of GRRM's series because I found them on sale in a used book store ($.50 each!), but I won't read them until they're all out. They're just too big and with a series like that, I don't want to have to reread it every time the next book in the series is published.

I thought WoT only had one more book coming out, the one that was written by Brandon Sanderson. Did they add two more books to the series?

The last book is running towards 750,000 words. That would be about 2500 pages, so Tor and Brandon and the widow decided to break it down to three books, 1 for each November. I have been at this series for almost your entire life, so patience grasshopper... :-)

But as with GRRM, I do read the entire series of both prior to each book coming out because of the complexities and trying to keep everything straight...

It gives me something to do... Have you gotten any of the Brust yet?

My favourite author is Robin Hobb but if her Farseer/Liveship series isn't different enough you could try her Soldier Son series, although it doesn't seem to be to everyone's taste. Another recommendation for something different would be Naomi Novik's Temeraire series.

>32 DWWilkin:, Of course I've gotten some of the Brust! I purchased the first two books of the Jhereg series and Phoenix Guards, but unfortunately, the last month of the school year is crunch time and reading, unless it's required for a class, is sloooooow going. I haven't been able to finish a book in over a week. It's horrible!

I've read the first five or seven books of the WoT series, but it was too much to reread every time it came out. I've decided to just wait until the entire series is published before starting it again. As it is, I'm still trying to work up the initiative to reread the Sword of Truth series. That was another one I decided to wait on after having read all but the last three, so now I need to go and reread all 11 of the 1000 page books - or are there 12? I can't remember at the moment and I'm at work so I can't check. But the entire series has been out for a year or two now, so I should get on it. Sadly, it's not really as good as I remember it being... :(

>30 DWWilkin: I don't think it is possible to go MORE off the path than RJ did with WoT. *rolleyes* I quit after book 5. I might try again when -no, IF- the series is finished.

GRRM said in an interview that some readers expected him to "pull a Robert Jordan". He added that he was old, but hadn't planned any dying in the nearby future. *grin* I like this guy, even though I haven't read his books. (I'm waiting for the last book...)

Mistborn is great. Some of the best books I've read recently! I'm still waiting for the pb of book 3. Sooooon! :-)

On the song of Ice and Fire, the next book isn't going to be the last, it is the second half of the last book, which was released how many years ago?

The way I look at things I think that both authors have done us a disservice.

Plotwise, we have hero is found after thousands of years at the same time as enemy is moving about readying to return.

Hero is not ready, so we have to get hero ready. Then Book 3, hero will face enemy. WOT got sidetracked and found all these great secondary characters that enriched the story.

In Song of Fire and Ice we had Heroes have horrible thing happen to them (father is murdered), heroes begin to gather allies for vengenance against the baddies, Heroes unite and march truimphant. But here we have, I am not sure who the heroes are, and the bad guys, or I like telling those stories, so I am going to make more and more and more bad guys and keeping telling that story.

If you read Charles Dickens, you can see something similar but much better. He had his plot, and he would find a minor character that he wanted you to know more about. For the next few pages (less than 10) he would tell you all about that character, and then you would be back on track with the story. GRRM goes at length into bringing in these minor characters so that they become protagonists and there stories are all part of the tale. It makes the work longer, and we lose focus on what we are about.

Who now are the heroes in the Song? Everyone is emotionally or physically scarred, or hateful because they are not nice. Then there is the wait for the next book. Jordan started to go from one year to two years to three, but they came out. Then he got sick and it showed. GRRM we just don't hear about.

I think GRRM only pulled a Jordan on is because of all his writing, this was the most successful over everything else he has ever written and he could get a big paycheck. I think that the story has been pulled in so many directions that he has been left with writers block because he does not know what to do next. He keeps killing off the people you like, and losing track of the ones he hasn't killed yet, so now he is boxing himself into a corner. I hope I am wrong, and will buy it (probably used, or get it from the library,) when it comes out. But the story has diminished over time.

I agree about Mistborn and I reviewed it here when I read it earlier this year.

I didn't mean to say that GRRM's next book would be the last one. Just that I'm waiting for the last book before I start reading. No more unfinished endless series for me!

I find that I have goals in my mind when I write something. The end as Jordan said he always knew for WOT.

I imagine the same was true of GRRM when he wrote the first book. It looked like it would be a duology when we finished with the first book. Now, I don't think he will be able to keep it to six books.

With GRRM it is all about giving entire books to new characters he invents as he writes. With Jordan he had his adventurers in the beginning, and these are the ones that have tales that will end up being told by the end. They meet people along the way, and they get several chapters for there stories, but the books are about the heroes from the Eye of the World.

One of the best things of Steven Erikson's Malazan series (besides it's being absolutely frigging awesome) is that he's managed to churn out a new book roughly every year for the past 8 books. Book 9 comes out this summer, with the 10th and final volume arriving next summer like clockwork.

(He's admitted, though, that the pace has been wearing him down, so future spin-off trilogies -- two having been announced -- will be written at a more modest pace.)

I so need a wikipedia with Malazan. I got through the first and was lost, then the same with book 2. But in Book three I am even more lost then ever before... Not only a list of all the people, creatures and places, with some description, but also perhaps pictures...

Rich is too small a word to describe how much is in this series.

Gack! Another series to add onto my TBR pile. I think I need another lifetime to get through all the books that need to be read...

DW: There are a couple of a wikis out there (Google "malazan wiki") but nothing approaching the level of sophistication and completion of, say, Wookieepedia or the Transformers wiki.

Your best course of action (IMHO) is to register at the quasi-official discussion boards. Due to the (as you say) richness of the series, and amount of mysteries and ambiguity, there's continuous ongoing discussion There's a separate forum for each individual book, with anti-spoilering enforced on a by-book basis (so the forum for book 4 will by necessity include spoilers on books 1-4, but the book 3 forum will contain no spoilers for books 4 and beyond.) It's a great site, with lots of very knowledgeable and helpful people. Plus, it's where I found about LT in the first place! (I'm there as "Salt-Man Z".)

Can fantasy really exist without having that essential good vs evil battle at the end of the book? That always does seem to be the point of fantasy novels in the end. But then again, that shows up in a lot of other genres as well. Horror is often about overcoming something evil.

When I saw this from one of your earlier posts, I immediately thought of Robert E Howard. I recommend any of the following the coming of Conan, the bloody crown of conan, kull exile of atlantis.

These have several short stories in them and they are more like adventures/survival with a good bit of old school horror thrown in.

Couch by Benjamin Parzybok is a fantasy about a couch with a mind of it's own starring 3 regular joes from Portland, Oregon. It's published by Small Beer Press.

Swordspoint by Ellen Kushner is not good vs. evil, and no quest is involved. No magic either though.

The Fox Woman by Kij Johnson is a Japanese set fantasy. Very different. I didn't like it very much myself, but that was more personal taste than anything else.

Other folks have already mentioned books by China Mieville, so I won't repeat.

Mmm, I agree about Swordspoint not being good vs evil and without a quest, but I would absolutely NOT recommend it. It's SO boring! Halfway through the book I was hoping they would just get killed because that would end the boredom.

I am speaking up for Swordspoint. I liked it. Don't remember why any more, however. We need a new acronym. tbrr for to be re-read.

My very bad bad, I thought I was discussing a topic re Swordspoint for another thread. It does work here. and also along those lines, The Magicians and Mrs. Quent is strong on fantasy with a heavy does of Jane Eyre and early Victorian, Late Regency themes.

#45/47 Swordspoint is one of my all-time favourites - I love the political machinations! - but as its subtitle 'A Melodrama of Manners' suggests, it's more likely to appeal to you if you enjoy the fantasy equivalent of a comedy of manners.

Am I the only one who still loves A Song of Ice and Fire?
I really liked A Feast for Crows, even though the main story was a bit on the backburner due to the end of open war in the Seven Kingdoms, because all the political stuff fascinated me.

The problem many readers seem to have is that Martin is really telling the story of Westeros - not the story of Jon or Robb or Arya or even Daenerys. The side characters are not distractions; they are a necessary part of the bigger picture Martin wants to convey.

If all you're looking for is the traditional 'good vs. evil' quest story, then I guess these books are not for you. If, on the other hand, you want to read one of the most intelligent and well written sagas of an invented world ever, then go right ahead.

I am sure George did not 'pull a Jordan' because of the big paycheck. If so, he would have churned out books at high speed. This is clearly a labor of love, and so he refuses to release a book until he is happy with it.

Winter IS coming.

You are not the only one who still loves the series. I do, wholeheartedly, and still recommend it as one of the greats in the genre. I am so excited about all and any future books, because GRRM consistently writes interesting and compelling characters and puts them in dangerous situations. I missed Jon and Daenerys something awful in the last book, so am desperate to read how they're getting on.

#47 - I loved your tbrr acrynym!

Also, I liked Swordspoint. It's not a quest adventure, but a character driven story about intense and conflicted adult relationships.

May not be a story for everyone, everybody doesn't have to enjoy every book - nothing wrong with that. But it was exquisitely well written, and achieved what it set out to do very nicely.

For Song of Ice and Fire, cruised over to GRRM's website to see if there was any update. Amazon says the book will come in September. Last month however, it looks like George admits to having trouble with the book and has invited a friend of his of 40 years to come over and help him out, perhaps throwing in the friends well known characters into the world.

To me it suggests that GRRM has no clear direction on how to get out of the holes he is digging. A complex plot where there is no overall Good vs. Evil so everyone can pick a side, but where real human motivations guide each character, is a great undertaking. But one must know where to draw the line so all of sudden we dont have a novel for every character that gets mentioned. Sometimes a character just need have a name say his line and leave the stage.

Sometimes the novel ends, and many story lines are not yet resolved. Sometimes the characters die before the quest is completed.

I look at the Song of Ice and Fire novels and see the many notes in the appendix about the various elements of the world. So much attention to that detail has made the story lost. Who are our heroes. What is the threat that I need to focus on. What is the issue I want to resolve?

It seems we are fighting WWII in the midst of the current economic meltdown, and the atrocities of the Holocaust are not secreted from us (think of this as a US oriented thought process) while Martin Luther King is fighting for desegregation in the south, and the sexual revolution, aka the pill, is just hitting its stride (with aids thrown in.) Put all the big issues on the table at once so no one has a moment to take a big breath and exhale saying thank goodness that's over.

I like them, I think however Jordan and Eriksen are better at it.

53> If you're talking about this post, by any chance did you notice the particular day it was posted? :D

Or maybe you did, and I just ruined your joke? :(

I love Swordspoint. And if you like Black Jewels, I'd recommend it.

Saltmanz, didn't catch that it was a joke at all. In any event, should GRRM not be seeking help to get him out of the holes he has dug, I still think he is way deep in em...

You could also try The Graveyard Book by Neil Gaiman. It's different and very good.

Have been a Gormenghast fan since secondary school: but HATED the t.v adaptation!!!!!!
Has anyone read The Haunting of Alaizabel Cray by Chris Wooding - highly unusual.
Also, The Years of Rice and Salt by Kim Stanley Robinson - an 'alternative history' of the Black Death,