richardderus reads yet more in 2009

Talk75 Books Challenge for 2009

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richardderus reads yet more in 2009

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1richardderus
Edited: Jul 12, 2009, 10:09 am

After 250 posts or so, the second thread needed to be retired. Reviews thirty-eight and forward located in this thread.

Reviews for books one through twenty-five are over here.

Reviews for books twenty-six through thirty-seven are over here.

Cool ticker thingie:




Reviews are in post:
(note that touchstones are in the reviews to save me endless touchstone corrections)

38. The Forger's Spell...#6

39. A Certain Slant of Light...#31

40. Cocaine Blues...#72

41. Murder on the Ballarat Train...#83

42. Death at Victoria Dock...#94

43. The Green Mill Murder...#115

44. Blood and Circuses...#154
45. Ruddy Gore...#154
46. Urn Burial...#154

47. The Kindly Ones...#156

48. A Question of Death...#169

49. Mistress of the Art of Death...#174

50. Storm Front...#200

51. A City of Bells...#204

52. The Lost City of Z...#221

53. Baking Cakes in Kigali...#230

2alcottacre
Jun 8, 2009, 3:11 pm

Got you starred again, (un)saint Richard!

3mckait
Jun 8, 2009, 3:12 pm

4mckait
Jun 8, 2009, 3:16 pm

As for retaining your saint richardear status...
I think all you can do is pull in your curmdgeonliness a tad..
and use super glue on your halo

I also think you should keep an eye our for TT, as he is jockeying for your position.

5TheTortoise
Jun 8, 2009, 3:26 pm

> Rich, it is so good to see you go down with "Saintly Dignity" :). You will always be our own Richard Dear, even if you are a curmudgeonly old cuss! I will reinstate you to Sainthood but you need a new name: Saint Curmudgeon!

Read any good book lately?

~ TT

6richardderus
Jun 8, 2009, 3:43 pm

Review thirty-eight of seventy-five:

The Forger's Spell by Edward Dolnick is a non-fictional account of the 20th century's most astoundingly, resoundingly, and undeservedly successful art forgery scam.

In very, very brief, it's the story of a Dutch forger who cons Goering out of *boatloads* of cash for fake Vermeers. The book presents us with the fakes in a photo section. I simply cannot believe that anyone not completely blind and thus viewing these horribly hideous daubs in Braille could be taken in by them.

There are quite a few characters involved in this scam, and so Dolnick bounces around more than Roger Federer's practice balls, with equally nausea-inducing speed and ballistic-ness. (Ballisticity?)

Chapters are short. Sentences aren't. Story is fascinating. Piecing it together isn't. Vermeers are gorgeous. Forgeries are so Gawdawful ugly it makes the viewer want to weep from outrage (sort of like the effect Dickens or Shakespeare has on the sensible modern reader, or cats have on the non-demon-possessed).

Recommended...but what a lukewarm recommendation it is. I wish I'd been able to follow one thread through the book, instead of eight (by my count), and I wish I'd been given halftone illos in the text instead of, or prefereably in addition to, a photo insert because I would have liked to be able to see what Dolnick was talking about as he was talking about it. I felt that was a bad decision on the publisher's part. Left me sort of hanging there, unsure of what I was supposed to be seeing.... Well. Anyway. If you like art, and if you're a fan of puzzle stories with tidy endings, here it is.

7alcottacre
Jun 8, 2009, 3:47 pm

#6: I read the book last year, Richard, and completely agree with the photo insert complaint. I hate art books that discuss the art and then do not provide pictures for what the author is talking about.

8TheTortoise
Jun 8, 2009, 3:50 pm

>6 richardderus: Rich, so you have read a goodish book lately.
I loved this sentence in your review:

(sort of like the effect Dickens or Shakespeare has on the sensible modern reader, or cats have on the non-demon-possessed).

Brilliant!

~ TT

9mckait
Edited: Jun 8, 2009, 4:02 pm

10alcottacre
Jun 8, 2009, 4:09 pm




Just to keep your cats company, Kath :)

11richardderus
Jun 8, 2009, 4:15 pm

Oh goody goody...Chuckles the Dick and *choo* every time I open my own thread...lucky, lucky Saint Richard of the Tomes to have such followeresses.

*schneeeeeeeeerrrrrrk*

12mckait
Jun 8, 2009, 4:32 pm

13lunacat
Jun 8, 2009, 4:37 pm

I hereby offer you my undying devotion as the leader of the CAD and will try my hardest to pick the cat hairs off my clothes before visiting.

14karenmarie
Jun 8, 2009, 5:00 pm

At least you mentioned a fantastic person in your review - Roger Federer. My hero who won the French Open yesterday and is tied with Pete Sampras' 14 Grand Slam win record. Go Roger!

But you are sure a glutton for punishment from the Cat-ophiles, Dickensians, and Shakespeare lovers, Richard.

We've already had our cat discussions, so I'll abstain.

I'm not particularly fond of Dickens, and, like you, reading plays isn't my favorite thing.

But what about Shakespeare's sonnets? Those I love.

15rainpebble
Edited: Jun 8, 2009, 5:07 pm

Very cool thingy with the catz mckait, my dear, but you would have my undying devotion if you could teach them how to spray on this thread!~! Hee hee!~! LOL
(they are toms, right?)

16MusicMom41
Jun 8, 2009, 5:16 pm

#6 richard & 8 TT

As one who loves Shakespeare and plans to finish reading all of Dickens before die (which had better not be soon if I am to be successful--I'm a very slow reader!) I resemble that remark.

As for cats--meh. However, I'm opposed to drowning them. :-)

The book, The Forger's Spell, sounds like one I would like--but it also sounds frustrating. Hmmmm. going to check it out--from the library, however, if they have it.

17richardderus
Jun 8, 2009, 8:47 pm

>13 lunacat: luna*choo*, the offer is a kindness. I have a decon station in my vestibule, complete with anti-dander soaps and 6500psi sprayers for cat-slaves who visit. Your place in the Great Bookstore in the Sky is assured.

Side note: This vision of heaven and hell makes a lot more sense to me than the land of milk (how much coffee and cereal can ya consume, after all?) and honey (ICK bee spit) ever did. As for eternal torment: NO BOOKS ANYWHERE and that is pretty damned hellish to contemplate.

>14 karenmarie: karenmarie, Shakespeare's sonnets are not included in my vilification campaign. Poetry is exempt from hatefulness. Not, mind you, that I will be picking up Paradise Lost outside of a class or a death threat.

>15 rainpebble: Belva! Don't give her any ideas!!

>16 MusicMom41: Carolyn, the library is the perfect solution!

mckait. Flowers. Hmmmpf. *stalks off in huff*

18mckait
Jun 8, 2009, 9:12 pm

??

19richardderus
Jun 9, 2009, 12:11 am

Muuuch better. All is forgiven. You're back out of the Great Vestibule. *mmmwaaah*

20mckait
Jun 9, 2009, 7:34 am

21richardderus
Jun 9, 2009, 10:30 am

I guess you like vulcanized rubber, huh?

22mckait
Jun 9, 2009, 10:35 am



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~LIVE LONG AND PROSPER~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

23richardderus
Jun 9, 2009, 10:41 am

ROFL

Side note: I realized I truly was disabled when I tried to do the Vulcan two-finger salute and *couldn't*. It was a sad, sad moment.

24mckait
Jun 9, 2009, 10:50 am



:( sorry about losing the vulcan salute, but as long as you can come up with other salutes.. ahem.. all is well, yes?

25richardderus
Jun 9, 2009, 10:58 am

Nope, that one's gone too. I miss it less, since I can say what that one means more readily than "infinte diversity in infinite combinations" and also keep a straight (you should forgive) face.

I feel a review coming on....

26mckait
Jun 9, 2009, 11:00 am

ROFL

27drneutron
Edited: Jun 9, 2009, 11:10 am

How about the Spaceballs salute? 8^}

28rainpebble
Jun 9, 2009, 11:49 am

actually, I rather like the kitty leaving it's fleas and ticks!~!
Hey mccait---I want to learn how to do that cool stuff!~! Pleeeeease?????????????

29Berly
Jun 9, 2009, 4:07 pm

Just had to say "Hi!" on your new thread.

30lunacat
Jun 9, 2009, 4:21 pm

I would offer to shake my cats over the thread to provide real live fleas and ticks but they haven't got any. I can however make St. Richard sneeze every time he reads his thread by leaving some cat hair around.

*shakes them*

There you go dear :)

31richardderus
Jun 9, 2009, 4:47 pm

Thirty-nine of seventy-five:

A Certain Slant of Light by Margaret Wander Bonanno is a first novel published in 1979. I am left to guess that it didn't set the sales charts afire by the fact that it's all but disappeared from Ms. Bonanno's CV ( see her website and be persistent!), but that sure hasn't stopped Ms. Bonanno from being a very successful writer (back to the CV, helluva career).

Many first novels feature a protagonist that is the author in a fright wig, so to speak. I suspect that this novel features a supporting character that's the author in a fright wig, the character of Vicki, the judgmental friend of a young mother getting a divorce. The fact that Vicki gets the space and sympathy she does, when she's not central to the plot, makes me suspect this...I ccould be wrong, of course.

The novel itself is about Sarah, the distinguished and successful professor at a small Catholic school, whose devastating stroke leaves her changed forever, and in need of round-the-clock help. Joan, a young college-educated divorcing mother, needs a job to support herself and her son. Pietro, a priest and Sarah's teaching colleague, is utterly in love with Sarah and, we suspect, she with him...but Sarah never encourages him to break his vows as she did by leaving a nunnery to marry a famous sculptor so long ago.

These three people, quite convincingly drawn, are in orbit around each other held by the metaphysical gravity of love...and by the differnent force that is lovingkindness. Each character has strong bonds of affection to Sarah and to each other, but each is also acting out of the need to express a sort of agape for the others, that disinterested spirit of goodwill that is such a Catholic staple in Good Works.

But Bonanno's long career in fiction can be explained in one short sentence about this, her first novel: She makes you believe that goodness, lovingkindness, is real.

I believe Sarah helps Joan, who helps her, and Pietro helps them both, for the mixed and very human motives that power each of us in our actions. But the impressive skill of a first-time novelist in delineating characters who can believably act selflessly should not go unremarked.

This is a period piece in many ways. I recommend it to aficionados of character-driven stories, to people over 45, and to Catholics who would like to remember what it was like to read something about a *good* priest.

32alcottacre
Jun 9, 2009, 4:50 pm

#31: Thanks for yet another great review and recommendation, Richard. I will see if I can locate a copy.

33richardderus
Jun 9, 2009, 4:51 pm

>27 drneutron: drneutron, I like that image!

>28 rainpebble: Belva, you would....

>29 Berly: yodelee-whooohooo, Berly!

>30 lunacat: luna*choo*, thagks awfly fer dat. *schneeeerrrrk*

34mckait
Jun 9, 2009, 4:53 pm

nor do mine, luna... nor do mine..

35rainpebble
Jun 9, 2009, 8:22 pm

That was a very good review Richard. And, check it out everyone----he read a "good" book! And, yes, I must read this one. Thank you. Well done.

36WilowRaven
Jun 10, 2009, 11:13 am

>Adding it to my wonderful pile. Although I was a bit confused by your review at first...thought I had read that book already. Turns out I read this one -A Certain Slant of Light by Laura Whitcomb :)

37richardderus
Edited: Jun 10, 2009, 11:54 am

>35 rainpebble: Belva...you mean...you liked one of my reviews...?

*staggers to fainting couch* I must loosen my stays! I am woozy with delight!

>36 WilowRaven: Wilow, I know...pesky old Emily Dickinson and her quotable poetry! People reuse her lines for titles all the durned time!

edited/close itals

38rainpebble
Jun 11, 2009, 1:43 am

I not only liked it, it is on my TBR list now. Thank you very much. Here, use my smelling salts. **she wafts her handkerchief through the air** for poor Richard.

39Berly
Jun 11, 2009, 1:58 am

Smelling salts and fainting couches...I love this thread!

40Whisper1
Jun 11, 2009, 11:16 am



RichardDEAR

Does your wife know you have so many admirers and fans?
And, how does she keep up with your witty banter and humor?

Getting back to books....
I'm having a difficult time locating your review of A Certain Slant of Light. I'll keep trying.

This is a book I enjoyed tremendously. I purchased a copy of The Fetch but haven't read it yet. Kath, I didn't forget that I promised to send it to you when I'm finished....Sorry for the delay.

41richardderus
Edited: Jun 11, 2009, 11:59 am

Linda, my "wife," aka The Divine Miss, isn't a wife in that sense. We bicker, laugh at each other's jokes, drink together, and NEVER have sex. Just like old married folks. But she has her admirers, I have mine, and all works well that way.

I moved back here from Texas after the end of my relationship with Mr. Man, after a ten-year absence that began with my mother's incapacitation and subsequent death. (I moved home to care for her because no one else would.) The Divine Miss and I remained good friends, talked about every three months, and generally kept our lines open.

Years pass, things change, The Divine Miss needed help with our sainted aunt, my beloved can't finish his ambivalence, and I end up back in New York (AT LAST!!) to solve several minor crises.

So where we are now is a weird place to most people. We're better than best friends, we're closer than siblings in some ways, and we're always happy for each others' happiness.

So I update her on my ego-inflating circle of pals, who keep me laughing and humble with their friendship, and she laughs along with me. It's hard to imagine a more satisfying set of circumstances to live in.

Except when I hate her guts, of course.

ETA: I forgot to mention that the touchstone in my review of a book is always to that exact book, so click on the touchstone and *poof* there you are!

42Whisper1
Jun 11, 2009, 12:49 pm

Richard.
Thanks for sharing (sounds trite and corny) but then again most genuine expressions have a way of sounding hollow simply because, at times, it is difficult to express depth of caring.

I too have experienced ups and downs with relationships. And, I think I could write and sing a country western song...Your Cheating Heart....
except it has already been written and sung many times over.

"So where we are now is a weird place to most people. We're better than best friends, we're closer than siblings in some ways, and we're always happy for each others' happiness."

"Weird" is a word used by people who simply cannot comprehend anything out of what they perceive as "normal." To that I say, who is more "weird," those who are closed minded and nasty, or those who dare to live who they are?

I'm going to quote my favorite Dorothy Parker poem
Indian Summer:
In youth it was a way I had to do my best to please
And change with every passing lad to suit with his theories
But now I know the things I know
And do the things I do
And if you do not like me such
To hell my love with you

-------------------------------
Hugs to you
Linda

43richardderus
Jun 11, 2009, 3:32 pm

Heeheehee! I love Dorothy Parker. I want to grow up to be Dorothy Parker. Wait...I think I did....

As to cheatin' hearts, I offer Emily Dickinson's truism in contradistinction:

The Heart wants what it wants
Or Else it doesn't
Care

Cheaters really are nothing more than liars. Their hearts aren't in what they have, so they can go elsewhere and feel okay about it. At least that's been true in all the cases I know about from personal experience.

44mckait
Jun 11, 2009, 4:19 pm

"I think I did...."

yep, I think so too

45girlunderglass
Jun 11, 2009, 4:31 pm

this thread is a good example for why I love LT - so many great talks...*adds herself to list of admirers* :)

46richardderus
Jun 11, 2009, 4:32 pm

I have no earthly idea what that little doomaflatchie in the GIF is, but it's sure cute!

47richardderus
Jun 11, 2009, 4:37 pm

>45 girlunderglass: Oh oh, another admireress...better go tell The Divine Miss....

Isn't good talks what a social networking site is supposed to enable? I spend lots of my life having dull chats with uninteresting people (upholsterers, electricians, auntie, etc etc) so I look forward to hearing interesting and/or amusing people discussing interesting and/or amusing things when I get here.

And then, of course, one has to put up with the Queen of the GIFs, but it's only a slight downside.

48mckait
Jun 11, 2009, 4:55 pm


49Berly
Jun 12, 2009, 1:12 am

Merely a GIF maid-in-waiting...

or maybe the magician's apprentice (!), since Richard taught me how to do this...

50alcottacre
Jun 12, 2009, 4:41 am

#41: Sounds like you have a wonderful relationship, Richard, and I admit that I am more than a little jealous of 'Divine Miss', lol.

51richardderus
Jun 12, 2009, 11:40 am

>49 Berly: perhaps you're a GIFfy Pop...?

>50 alcottacre: Stasia, I'll tell her you said so!

52lunacat
Jun 12, 2009, 11:50 am

I wanna be someone's 'Divine Miss' :(

I suspect I will end up being a 'Not-so-divine Mistress' instead!!!!! Thats how things usually go lol

53alcottacre
Jun 12, 2009, 11:57 am

#51: I don't know, Richard - maybe she is the jealous type! Does she possess any lethal instruments of which I should be aware?

54richardderus
Jun 12, 2009, 12:00 pm

Well, lunacat, shop amongst your friends and leave your lovers out of it. Remember that being someone's Divine Miss means he's your Divine Mister, with appropriate concessions and compromises all around. It really really helps if he can do things you hate to do, and do them well so you can admire him. Men really, really like being admired. (GIANT FLAMING CLUE FOR ALL WOMEN HERE.)

I can cook, which The Divine Miss hates to do (though she makes some dishes so well that she's designated to make those...fried chicken, roasted sausage&peppers&potatoes...and not allowed to complain about that); she likes my cooking; she extravagantly admires it to all and sundry, including our sainted-if-ungrateful aunt. I return the compliment by praising her (quite extraordinary, and very large) garden. When it's time to trim hedges and plant annuals and such-like, I stand back and give aesthetic direction as needed and provide the gin-and-tonics with cheese and crackers at the end of the session, plus fetch and carry the inevitable forgotten tools.

It ain't easy, but it's worth it, even on the tough days.

55richardderus
Jun 12, 2009, 12:03 pm

>53 alcottacre: Stasia, I can imagine no one on this planet less prone to jealousy than The Divine Miss. Oh, well, she gets a little testy if she's between admirers and I'm not, but I can't call that jealousy in the sense you mean it.

I can, however, honestly say that short of rifles, we're pretty well armed. It amazes me how many lethal, pointy things a house contains just in service of daily living!

56alcottacre
Jun 12, 2009, 12:07 pm

#55: OK, I can breathe a sigh of relief - although I know what you mean about the lethal, pointy things - my kitchen is filled with them!

57karenmarie
Jun 13, 2009, 8:49 am

#54 Thanks for the clue, RichardDear. My husband gets admired for being a handyman around the house, a skill he's acquired since our marriage. He also gets admired for keeping the outside under control (except for my vegetable garden) and being a good father to our daughter. This, too, is an acquired skill. He pretty much didn't know what to do with her when she was just squiggling around in his arms... but she's almost 16 now and they're close (when they're not squabbling). But it is sometimes hard to keep the Male Ego going. Especially when said male doesn't have a job and whose business is going under because of the economy. Blech.

58richardderus
Jun 13, 2009, 9:31 am

>57 karenmarie: karen, I'd say you're doing GREAT if you're just stayin' even with the hole under those circumstances. How awful for all concerned. My sympathetic winces are with you all!

59mckait
Jun 13, 2009, 10:16 am

karen, I am sorry to hear about the blasted negative effects the economy is causing you...I have a feeling of optimism, though. Hope I am right and we all come out of this on the up side .

60mckait
Jun 14, 2009, 1:13 pm

............richardear, are you having fun without us?

61Whisper1
Jun 14, 2009, 7:50 pm

ditto what Kath said in message #59.

62richardderus
Jun 15, 2009, 9:58 am

I had a bar-b-q to give for The Divine Miss this weekend, and electrical work to supervise, a car to get detailed so I wouldn't DIE of shame picking people up at the station in it, liquor to buy (and drink!), etc etc.

It was The Divine Miss's plenty-second birthday celebration. The party was initimate, only a dozen or so, and so very fun for me. I dislike big parties because they're so all-fired noisy and I never get to talk to my favorite people because the tedious ones buttonhole me and I have to escape to the kitchen and FORBID people to enter, so I'm holed up with the pots and pans all night. As to why the tedious ones are there, I refer you to The Divine Miss.

Since it was a bar-b-q, I made chicken (juicy, tender, delicious with its coating of spiced-up sauce); 5lbs of potato salad (tried a new recipe, OMG what a find! It was a giant hit, I have about a cup left); 3lbs of cole slaw (creamy cole slaw dressing can be improved with celery salt, I've discovered); 3lbs of canellini/spinach pasta salad (sooo good, I would have been happy just eating that!); green salad, home-made cornbread, the usual nibblements for party snacking (nuts, cheeses, crackers, olives) and then...the maple-walnut cake.

Oh my, oh my. The local Italian bakery, Roe's Casa Dolce, makes this superb cake, moist rich white cake with maple flavoring, and a maple walnut buttercream icing from which to die. Since neither The Divine Miss nor I like chocolate cakes or icings, we discovered this cake and have been happily munching it ever since. A *huge* cake, and there is one piece left. One. Mineminemine aaaaaall MINE!

Ahem. Anyway. A good time was had by all, including the Jindo Formally Known As Stella. She, it turns out, is a party girl! She mingles without being told...goes up to each person, sniffs and licks once or twice, moves on to the next...and does her party tricks (begging for booze, stealing unguarded crackers, suckering guests out of their choicest chicken morsels).

So, Kath and Linda, I guess I was having fun and sadly for me it was without y'all.

63TadAD
Jun 15, 2009, 10:02 am

What is the recipe for this What-A-Find Potato Salad?

I'm looking for one better than the one I have.

64cameling
Jun 15, 2009, 5:30 pm

did someone mention bbq? We had an old and dear friend visiting for the week (yes, richard, most of which i was away in seoul!) and we decided to a bar-b party for him on saturday (the day after i arrive back! ... my dear hubster had forgotten that i was coming back only on friday night).

Your bar-b sounds a tad more healthy than the one we put out .... we were definitely catering to carnivorous people. I made about 4 racks of pork ribs, homemade burgers, lamb chops and a big pile of farmer's sausages. someone brought some thick steaks over and it was clearly not the time to pull out the DVD of Bambi. One of our friends brought over a deadly potato salad - deadly only because I almost growled and snapped at others who tried to take more than what I considered their fair share, and some others brought in salads and fresh baked bread.

We had a separate table set up with nibbles while the meat were grillin' and that had the usual assortment of cheeses, crackers, olives, artichoke dip, chips, guacamole and salsa and.... cases of wine! Our friends are, if anything, thankfully generous with the contents of their wine cellars.

I made some frozen green grapes and voila - the perfect garnish to vodka vodka martooonis on a hot summer evening. And that myth about not being able to speak with a frozen grape in your mouth - smashed to smitheroonis.

I made a keylime pie and brownies for dessert, to accompany the fresh strawberries, cream, ice cream, and a mega homemade tres leches cake that someone brought.

One good thing about hosting parties - all the good leftovers stay in the house! :-)

65mckait
Jun 15, 2009, 7:39 pm

awww... what a sweetie you are rdear, but then, I knew that :)

66Berly
Jun 15, 2009, 8:17 pm

Where do you guys live? I'll be right there! And, yes, please do share the recipes of any winner potato salads!! Have to go find a napkin: I'm droolin'...

67mckait
Jun 15, 2009, 8:19 pm

not usually a fan of the potato salad, I look forward to hearing about it, too :)

68ronincats
Jun 15, 2009, 8:50 pm

I am salivating so heavily right now I am nearly drooling...

69alcottacre
Jun 16, 2009, 8:25 am

There must be a bunch of wet keyboards around with all this drooling going on :)

70richardderus
Jun 16, 2009, 11:25 am

cameling, can I have a few of your friends? I wanted to make steaks, but to a person, these wimps wanted chicken or, in the case of three, no meat at all.

Sheez.

Your menu sounds deVOON and I will post Cousin Manie's tater salad recipe later. It is the absolute best I have ever tasted and I have eaten more variations on potato salad than I can count.

Key lime pie is an accomplishment I lack...can't make the darn things to save what's left of my virtue. Always, but always, come out gritty no matter how long I mix and mix and mix.

The electrician is back, for a third day, and I am stealing time from hovering over him to scare him. He's a sweet guy, Jamaican accent to melt from, and what a dear he is to have drinks with my sainted aunt and listen to her stories. Course, free booze, good cooking, and a healthy check can go a ways to bringing out the mannerly side of a young man.

71cameling
Jun 16, 2009, 6:36 pm

poor richard - there is nothing worse, in my opinion than a good embers going to waste on only chicken and vegetables. But then again, i know of a few people who would disagree ... but i refuse to apologize for my love, nay my need for red meat on a grill ... unless the other white meat available was lobster. ;-)

ah hah.. i'll bring you a key lime pie the next time i pop over ... at least there'll be something else i can bring besides cheesecake since chocolate is not altogether welcome.

free booze, good cooking would be enuff to bring out the mannerly side of me!

72richardderus
Jun 17, 2009, 12:10 pm

Forty of seventy-five:

Cocaine Blues by Kerry Greenwood is the first installment of the Phryne Fisher mystery series. In haunting our own cameling's thread, I ran across panegyrics to the author, an Aussie, and the sleuth, a toffy Brit. Since cameling has about a .750 average coincidence with my taste, I decided I should see for myself what this Australia-set series had to offer.

First mysteries aren't to be read for their mystery value, but rather for their potential to amuse and engross one in the series character. I offer my dearly beloved Russell Quant's series debut, Amuse Bouche, as evidence...moderately good mystery craftsmanship, wonderful character development. Another example, perhaps better known to all and sundry, is Donna Andrews's Murder with Peacocks...promising craftsmanship, delicious character building.

This book is no exception. The mystery is ~meh~ but the sleuth and her supporting cast are either immediately endearing or anathema. I fall on the endearing side because 1) the 1920s are very interesting to me, and the series is set in 1928, and 2) Australia fascinates me. Phryne, our heroine, is a nicely imagined flapper of the day, and her background (more on this anon) is pleasantly complicated which goes a long way to explaining how she got to be the free spirit that her social milieu would not obviously produce.

Melbourne, Australia, isn't exactly on any international map as a cultural hotspot. A book set there has a lot of 'splainin' to do, to quote Ricky Ricardo from I Love Lucy. Greenwood does comparatively little of this 'splainin' and that is a problem for this reader. Greenwood also shorts the background of Phryne, named for a famous prostitute of Classical Greece...what the hell?!? We really see here, more or less, a character sketch, a piece designed to introduce a particular attitude and mood, to the reader.

The book itself is rather too short. This goes a long way to explain the missing details I've pointed out, and the others I can't comment on without the dread spoilers. Had I bought this hardcover edition for $25, I would be a lot more testy than I am in my review. A trade paper edition for $12 would have irked me, and a mass market edition for $7 would merit a grumble.

And that's a good sign! I liked every one of these series characters and I wanted more of them. Several incidental characters could profitably bear beefing up too, like Sasha the dancer and his Princess granny; I suspect, though, that somewhere in the next 15 or so books these folks will reappear.

I've already read book two in the series, review forthcoming, and have the library looking for three and four. So do I recommend the series, flaws and all? Yes. Most definitely I do. I caution against getting your expectations too high, only because I want Kerry Greenwood to have your business for all sixteen books in the series. She's a writer with the pleasant and rare gift of being fun to read from giddy-up to whoa.

73alcottacre
Jun 17, 2009, 12:21 pm

I have Greenwood's books on the Planet thanks to Caroline (cameling), but I think I better push them up a bit!

74richardderus
Jun 17, 2009, 1:07 pm

Forty-one of seventy-five:

Flying Too High by Kerry Greenwood is the second Phryne Fisher mystery, set in Melbourne, Australia, in 1928. Since the review of Cocaine Blues is just above, I will refrain from re-enumerating the flaws that repeat themselves here.

Any series needs its "jokes" or established tics and tropes that let dedicated series readers build a sense of friendly familiarity with a character, a place, a group gestalt. This series promises to do that with a vengeance. Phryne's tics and crotchets are consistent...wit, sexual freedom, social conscience unexpected in a rich girl...and the recurring characters around her are given their own lovable ways to a greater extent than is necessarily good for the plot of the series.

But no matter. Cec and Bert and Dot are companions one simply can't ignore, and some new additions to the cast bid fair to capsize our already laden Ship of State; still, I can see them all becoming like the cousins one sees at reunions, wakes, and funerals, and wonders idly but fondly about in between.

The mysteries in this installment of Phryne's Australian adventure are not particularly well-crafted, and if all one is looking for is a mystery to solve, stop reading at once and go pick up one of Ben Rehder's Blanco County books; he's equally gifted at creating laugh-out-loud funny characters and situations but far more able to make them operate in believeable ways.

The central conceit of this book is Phryne flying a plane. Or so one would imagine from the title. No, Phryne is shown flying once, and thereafter others do the flying. It is simply annoying that the flying parts require, in the author's opinion, Phryne's personal involvement; the flying scene could have been eliminated and that thread of the mystery would not have suffered a bit. It could become annoying that Phryne Does It All if this unnecessary character-building goes on in future books.

Some very lovable minor characters appear here, at least one of whom I am certain we will see again; of the two love interests in this book, I predict one will be back; and I am hopeful that these probable additions to the cast will require Greenwood to BEEF THESE BOOKS UP to address some of her so-far trademark laconic background building.

So...recommended...for the reader who enjoys characters and settings that vary from the ordinary. Pure mysterians, walk on by...nothing to see here....

75TadAD
Jun 17, 2009, 1:20 pm

I like the Phryne Fisher books. They're too expensive (short book, trade paperback prices), so I generally look for them second hand.

76richardderus
Jun 17, 2009, 1:34 pm

cameling...how about shrimp? I can't eat lobster due to gout. I will gladly grill some prawns and douse them in my version of remoulade, which The Divine Miss actually gushes over. As for key lime pie, it's ON baby!!

Stasia, glad to see you! How's your Dad?

Tad, if I'd purchased these books, I'd be disgruntled. I got them from the liberry and that's how that's gonna work, 'cause I ain't payin' no entree price for these little tapas-sized bagatelles.

77alcottacre
Jun 17, 2009, 1:36 pm

#76: Dad is doing just fine, Richard, thanks for asking. He is anxious to be home but not quite physically ready yet.

78rainpebble
Edited: Jun 17, 2009, 1:52 pm

The only Phryne Fisher I have and would pay full price for is A Question of Death: An Illustrated Phryne Fisher Treasury and that is just because I was fascinated by it when I saw it and wanted it for my shelf so I grabbed it at Barnes and Noble.
It contains 13 short stories and is a real hoot!~! I've not read any of the "real" Phryne Fisher books and so cannot speak to that. But I am glad that I got this duzzy and would pay full price again.



St. Richard; I LOVE your reviews of these Kerry Greenwood books. Don't you just sometimes love a book that likes to play with your brain? I know I do. Great reviews Sir.
belva

79mckait
Jun 17, 2009, 1:55 pm

Very nice reviews richardear...kudos.

80avatiakh
Jun 17, 2009, 4:24 pm

I've always wondered what Greenwood's books are like, and your reviews sum them up nicely. I'll probably get a couple from my library to try at some time.

81cameling
Edited: Jun 17, 2009, 4:55 pm

richard - Karen Greenwood does continue to deliver and as you continue reading through the series, you'll find her steady cast of characters will grow and you'll grow to love them all too. I'm so pleased that you're starting on the Phryne Fisher series.

82petermc
Jun 17, 2009, 7:39 pm

#74 - I have the complete Phryne Fisher series, but have yet to read one cover to cover. For a mystery series, IMHO, characterization is key, and the location painted in a realistic and attractive way; drawing me back, and making me look forward to the next book in unsuppressed anticipation. It seems to me, from your review and others, that Greenwood achieves that. Thanks for the review.

83richardderus
Edited: Jun 18, 2009, 12:17 am

Forty-two of seventy-five:

Murder on the Ballarat Train by Kerry Greenwood is numero tres in the Phryne Fisher series that I started reading Monday. The library in my village had it not, but as I needed to grocery shop in Baldwin, a village or two over, I checked their liberry and lo and behold! They had this and only this volume in the series. Apparently the county likes to make reading an entire series into a treasure hunt.

Now, I get the whole terse and concise quiz when writing hard-boiled fiction. But why use it in these books, and to the point of being taciturn? Pages one through five, for example, take place in the first class carriage of the train to a place called Ballarat, filled with people who have been chloroformed for no obvious reason. Why is Phryne, the saviour (oh dear, oh dear, I'm coming all over Aussie) of all and sundry, on the train with Dot, her faithful Watsoness? What does an Aussie train carriage from the 1920s look like, who is on a train that's apparently taking an overnight trip, blah blah blah? None of these questions is addressed, still less answered.

The police in the State of Victoria appear, to a man, to be in thrall to Phryne's pheromonal field, allowing her to see evidence, trample crime scenes, interview witnesses, blah blah blah. The court system of the State of Victoria appears to have the greatest possible respect for the Honourable (oh oh, more misspelling a la Oz!) Phryne because it allows her, without demur or even so much as a meet'n'greet, to take serious legal steps.

Now, shoehorning two mysteries into 151pp is no small feat. Greenwood does this. She is, as the August Cameling informs us, growing in her craft with each outing. But what the hell does the sheila have against exposition?!? It can be done, and done well, and it can make or break an otherwise incredible story.

Characters from the first two books appear like mushrooms after a rain, and several new and obviously intended to be recurring characters are introduced. This does give the series the charm of feeling like one is involved in the life of the series. It's a trick that works brilliantly for Southern States writers like Charlaine Harris and Joan Hess. One character from the end of the previous book, Flying Too High, appears again, to my discomfort and mild displeasure. I feel that I should caution parents of girls that some of Greenwood's recurring plotlines will cause you discomfort and should be brought to your attention early on. I do not encourage the very sensitively constructed to read this particular installment of the series.

But I, for reasons I can't yet fathom, want to keep reading these cocktail peanut books, and have in my moistly fumbling fingers books four, five and six of the series. So I guess it would be hypocritical to not recommend Murder on the Ballarat Train, subject to the parent/sensitive caution given above.

edited/touchstone troubles

84mckait
Jun 18, 2009, 6:31 am

rdear, this is reminding me of New Amsterdam. Are there any similarities?

peter~ does that mean that you began and then walked away from some of these books? If so why?

85petermc
Edited: Jun 18, 2009, 7:02 am

#84 mckait - My wording might suggest that I have "walked away" from these books, but that is not the case. The English novelist and critic Ford Madox Ford once said, "Open the book to page ninety-nine and read, and the quality of the whole will be revealed to you." Also refered to as the "Page 99 Test", this is what I generally do to see if a book might apeal to me, and thus I haven't read these books "cover to cover". Yet!

But I actually like what I've read so far. I just don't know when I'll get around to reading them in their entirety - They are in a ve----ry long queue :)

86mckait
Jun 18, 2009, 7:08 am

ahhh! Thank you for clarifying peter :) and believe me, I do understand what you mean by "They are in a ve----ry long queue :)" as I have one of those myself.

87Berly
Jun 18, 2009, 1:10 pm

R-- you are on a roll, and happily I might add! How nice. Tit for tat, eh? Now I have to add Phryne Fisher to my Leaning Tower. Although, upon reconsideration, you added a slim book to your TBR pile and this is a series. So NOT fair! LOL

#85 I like the Page 99 Test. ;)

88richardderus
Jun 18, 2009, 1:19 pm

Hey ever'body, thanks for the kind comments about the reviews...and I notice that several of y'all have voted thumbs-up on the main book page of Cocaine Blues, leading to another Hot Review for the group!

>78 rainpebble: Belva dear, did you get the email at last? I see a graphic...now when shall you practice your bold, underline, and ital skills?

>81 cameling: cameling, you see that I am hooked. I've got the first six and have now read four. You are a fiend incarnate, madam.

>84 mckait: mckait, nope, New Amsterdam is vastly superior in execution to all four of these that I have read.

>85 petermc: peter, I like the p99 test too! Thanks, and glad to see you here.

>87 Berly: Berly, *evil laugh*

89rainpebble
Jun 18, 2009, 4:23 pm

St Richard dearest of dears;
No I have not received your email at last. DID YOU SEND THE DAMNED THING???????????????????
Hmmmmmmmmmm????????
Stacia, Berly and Whisper1 came to my rescue, took pity on me and gave me some remedial training. It is still a challenge. I used a graphic when posting on Eliza's (I think) thread and it took up the whole screen.
So, though I would love to be doing some underlining, italicizing, and bold printing, sadly I do not have the "destructions".
Ever yours,
belva

90mckait
Jun 18, 2009, 4:34 pm

why are you shouting?????

91richardderus
Jun 18, 2009, 5:56 pm

mckait, Belva is a touch...well...excitable I think is the euphemism we men use, so of course she's a bit loud as well. These...ummm...events I think is the euphemism we men use recur with sufficient regularity, if you get my drift, that we're inured to them.

92cameling
Jun 18, 2009, 8:28 pm

*gives richard an evil chortle* -- keep at it, my dear ... you'll thank me wholeheartedly later .. maybe you'll be so grateful you'll make me a pan of your delicious shortbread all for myself! ;-)
I don't know what it is, but the Phryne Fisher series does kinda grab you and you feel compelled to read the next one, and the one after, and the one after, and the one after.

I'm now on a hunt for her other series, Corinna Chapman, a banker and amateur sleuth. I haven't read any yet -- they're still expensive, so I'm looking to mooch some or buy used paperbacks.

93mckait
Jun 18, 2009, 8:43 pm

OIC

*ponders rd's use of excitable*

*understands the shouting*

*wanders off to get some ice cream*

94richardderus
Jun 18, 2009, 10:04 pm

Forty-two of seventy-five:

Death at Victoria Dock by Kerry Greenwood is the fourth installment in the Phryne Fisher series.

I am seriously irked. This Greenwood moll has something against teenaged girls, and puts them repeatedly in the most heinous jeopardy imaginable and then when they're extricated all is suddenly sweetness and light.

I don't do book reports, because if I want to know what a book's about I read it. I also hate spoilers. But I am about to make a big fat plot-ruining spoiler here, so go away if you don't like them.

Are you gone yet?

Good.

I have one daughter in this life. She is, thankfully, well out of teen-age and in fact is pushing thirty. I still find stories of teenagers abused by adults extremely upsetting, on her behalf as well as my own. The teenaged girl in this story is abused sexually by her older brother. She quite naturally Has Issues, and one of them is her new stepmomma is preggers by that same brother. She gets locked up in the goofy garage by stepmomma, who wants brother boy all to herself, and is sprung by our own Phryne, only to be delivered TO THE NUNS!!! Child abuse on top of child abuse. Poor deluded little lass has expressed a desire to become a nun, and in the only bit of sanity in this plotline, her father is outraged and drags her out of their clutches. Then Phryne, normally a force for good, chucks her back into the maw of evil.

This book has upset me greatly. I think the other plot, about a Latvian anarchist plot to rob a bank, is pretty tame, but it gives Fisher's Watsoness Dot a chance to fall in love at last. Janie and Ruthie appear to have settled into a life of luxury without a hitch, so all is well.

If the next book in this series has another girl getting abused, I am so outta here. I won't recommend this book except for completists who MUST read every volume of a series.

95Berly
Jun 18, 2009, 10:05 pm

Laughing...Can't breathe...laughing...cheeks hurt...

96richardderus
Jun 18, 2009, 10:10 pm

>92 cameling: cameling, you want shortbread, you got shortbread! You are the only one who liked it, so who am I to complain?

>93 mckait: mckait, what flavor?

>95 Berly: Berly, we have amused you in some fashion?

97Berly
Jun 18, 2009, 10:26 pm

Sorry R--I was writing my message and your review had not come up on my screen yet. Laughing at McKait in #93 (well, actually #89-93) not YOU dahling! I usually don't enjoy books about abuse or rape (I think I will pass on Death at Victoria Dock), but I have to say, I just read Speak and it was really, really good! An amazing look at how trauma can isolate the victim from friends and family as well as a fiendishly realistic immersion in highschool drama, lingo and insecurities. The book has a certain lightness to it that makes the tragedy bearable. I want my sixteen-year-old to read it.

98richardderus
Jun 18, 2009, 10:46 pm

>97 Berly: Oh! Well, to be honest, that relieves my mind. I can see that the entries you mention could elicit a silvery laugh from your ever-elegant throat.

As to the book I reviewed, frankly, I'd give it a wide berth. I could, in fact I probably should, confess that I am extra special sensitive to child abuse because I think it's so horrific for an adult to do something like that to a kid, so the chances are that I am just a little hair-triggery on the topic.

99rainpebble
Edited: Jun 18, 2009, 11:16 pm

Nothing to do with your review St. Richard, just the thought of you thinking I am excitable????????????

100Berly
Edited: Jun 18, 2009, 11:18 pm

*99 What the *#@?! LMAO. Cheeks still hurt. Show you how to put a little icon in and look what happens...You don't give a damn anymore! Heartless I say.

101rainpebble
Jun 18, 2009, 11:19 pm

perhaps more ice cream will help.

102Berly
Jun 18, 2009, 11:22 pm

Good point.

103rainpebble
Jun 18, 2009, 11:38 pm

Hey Berly;
You still there?

104mckait
Jun 19, 2009, 6:38 am

Vanilla of course. French Vanilla

yum

105rainpebble
Edited: Jun 19, 2009, 8:47 am

Of course, of course.
We are nothing short of adventuresome when it comes to choosing our ice cream flavors. We always jump right out there and try something new!~! Hmmm, let's see; I think I will have the umm, the, yes, the, oh, what the hell---give me the vanilla!~!
I knew we had something in common mckait!~!
Yummy vanilla ice cream.
belva
P.S. I like mine virgin, how about you? No sprinkles, no syrup, no nothing.

106mckait
Jun 19, 2009, 8:59 am

ditto

107Berly
Jun 19, 2009, 11:30 am

Nu-huh! Coffee with jimmies. (That's chocolate sprinkles for all you people who didn't grow up on the East coast.)

108richardderus
Edited: Jun 19, 2009, 11:46 am

French vanilla *yawn*

Coffee with jimmies ~meh~

Dark chocolate with peanut butter swirl *yum*

But best of all...wedding cake ice cream from Blue Bell creamery near Austin. *swoon*
Vanilla bean ice cream, shortcake cookies, cream cheese icing swirl, and small pineapple chunks. ETA: Forgot the coconut! *drool*

Other than my daughter, the only thing I'll go back to Austin to get. ETA: Well, my brother too, and my foster mom, but that's it!

109rainpebble
Jun 19, 2009, 11:43 am

Berly;
There you go again, cracking me up. How on earth would someone come up with the word "jimmies" to describe chocolate sprinkles? Here on the West coast, we would most likely call them chocolate sprinkles. hee hee
belva

110richardderus
Jun 19, 2009, 11:48 am

But Belva, how depressingly literal. Like calling "Peche a la Melba" the prosaic, literal "cling peaches in raspberry goop."

Loved that GIF, BTW! Hilarious!

111rainpebble
Jun 19, 2009, 12:34 pm

You can thank the girls for that GIF training as someone STILL has not sent me certain "destructions"!~!
So I am a "literary snob" and now I have become "depressingly literal". Hmmmmmmm. Seems to be a pattern forming here.

>#104-106: mckait, my dear, it appears we bore poor Richard.

>#107: Berly, he appears to be just ho, hum regarding you.

>#108: But notice how easily he can excite himself. I find that quite telling, don't you all?

(Richard, I think we were posting at the same time there.)

112TadAD
Edited: Jun 19, 2009, 12:57 pm

>109 rainpebble:: How on earth would someone come up with the word "jimmies" to describe chocolate sprinkles?

According to the Urban Dictionary, that was the trade name of the first company to manufacture them...the Just Born Candy Company...and named after the man who produced them, Jimmy Bartholomew.

113Berly
Jun 19, 2009, 1:14 pm

TadAD--You beat me too it! Thanks.

#107, #111--Not me, just my ice cream selection. Besides, I didn't have Blue Bell Creamery. Just Friendly's.

#108, #111--Not going there.

114TheTortoise
Jun 19, 2009, 2:16 pm

>94 richardderus: Rich, Death at Victoria Dock is too grim for my tastes. I prefer Pollyanna or Mary Poppins.

~ TT

115richardderus
Jun 20, 2009, 12:50 pm

Forty-three of seventy-five:

The Green Mill Murder by Kerry Greenwood is the fourth installment of the Phryne Fisher mystery series.

Okay, no adolescent girls in jeopardy this time, so I will continue reading the books.

Phryne does, however, interact with two more stereotypes: The neurasthenic, crying gay interior decorator and the outdoorsy, rough lesbian couple.

Try something a little less cardboard, Miss Greenwood. I am losing heart.

The structure of the book isn't great. The eponymous murder takes place, is investigated, and left unresolved. I think I know who did it, but I have no idea why...or at least none I can use as evidence in a court of law.

Phryne's journey into the Australian Alps is memorably described. It's made to sound quite lyrical. I still want to read more of these, and I will until I figure out why, given all the complaints I have, I still want to read the books. Not particularly heartily recommended.

116rainpebble
Jun 20, 2009, 1:50 pm

>#114:
~TT;
Not a thing wrong with Pollyanna or Mary Poppins. I've been called both me very own self.
belva

117rainpebble
Jun 20, 2009, 1:54 pm

R;
I am still reading Kerry Greenwood's A Question of Death: An Illustrated Phryne Fisher Treasury as a "tweener" and enjoying it immensely. However the stories in it are very short and I don't know how they compare with her books. I am hoping that some of the characters will be in her books when I get ready to begin reading them.
Are you planning to read right straight through her books or do you plan to balance them out with some "good books"?
just askin'
belva

118richardderus
Jun 20, 2009, 2:20 pm

>117 rainpebble: Miss Bevla, ma'am, oops! I mean Beulva! Don't I mean Beulva? ;->

I am on a jag. I have to read these, and only these, until I understand the hook, the mojo, the glamour-in-the-fairy-sense of them. Why, given all the unkind things I am saying about these, do I still feel compelled to read 'em?! And that is just what I feel...compelled, forced, required to read about Phryne Fisher.

This is dreadful! I must exorcise this demon!!

119rainpebble
Jun 20, 2009, 3:31 pm

St. Richard;
exorcise away. "rotz of ruck"
belva


glitter-graphics.com

120mckait
Jun 20, 2009, 3:55 pm

Phryne? never heard of him or her

Rdear, I thank you from the depths of my and you know why, you darling man.

nanny, I am so stealing that gif!



121richardderus
Jun 20, 2009, 4:28 pm

>119 rainpebble: Bleeva, how hilarious!

>120 mckait: mckait, only doing unto others who have done unto me. xoxo

122Berly
Jun 20, 2009, 5:59 pm

#119 Belva-- You are scaring me! LOL

123Berly
Jun 20, 2009, 6:04 pm

#118 Richard, if you are possessed, then you must not be a Saint, which leads me to ask myself: "So, just how am I supposed to get through the pearly book gates now?"

124richardderus
Jun 20, 2009, 6:14 pm

Fear not, Sister Berly, for I am possessed by the Spirit of Orpheus, storyteller to the gawds. Your entrance into the Great Bookstore in the Sky is assured!

125womansheart
Jun 20, 2009, 6:26 pm

>124 richardderus: - I have always wanted to have an *in* with the Gatekeeper. Now I'm beginning to believe that I might get a pass, with a friend in high places such as yourself!

W

126richardderus
Jun 20, 2009, 6:30 pm

Weeelll Ruth...it might be the Vestibule to the Great Bookstore in the Sky for you...all the wet rain boots and slickers, y'know...depends, depends.

;->

127Berly
Jun 20, 2009, 6:50 pm

#124 *Faints dead away in ecstasy*

128womansheart
Jun 20, 2009, 7:39 pm

> 126 richardderus -

I say, let the bribery and horse trading begin, my man. What is it that your heart may desire for qualification? Eh?

W (not that W, BTW)

129richardderus
Jun 20, 2009, 7:47 pm

>128 womansheart: Ruth dear, first: abjure conservatism.

Second, abjure conservatism.

Third, and most importantly, read things that will offend and/or scare you at least four times a year.

It never hurts to visit my wishlist and send things to me via amazon. But it is not necessary. (ps--amazon wishlist is under the same name, "@yahoo.com" as my username.

130Berly
Jun 20, 2009, 8:45 pm

#124 Berly wakes up. Reads #128 and 129. Realizes that "third"ly is extortion, that Richard ain't no Saint (possessed or otherwise), that her "in" to the pearly bookstore in heaven is in jeopardy once more...*faints dead away again*

131rainpebble
Jun 20, 2009, 11:22 pm

quickly, quickly, the salts St.

132FlossieT
Jun 23, 2009, 5:56 pm

I am so stealing that image back in >99 rainpebble:.

Hello, Richard. I mislaid you with the start of the new thread. I'm getting the impression you're finding Ms Greenwood somewhat uneven and will await further instruction before filing her under 'to-read'.

133rainpebble
Jun 24, 2009, 3:09 pm

St. Richard;
I didn't come by to see if you have read any "good" books lately 'cuz we know that ain't gonna happen.
Am just doing a quick fly by to "moon" ya.
later babe,
belva


glitter-graphics.com

134richardderus
Jun 26, 2009, 2:49 pm

Hidy there, Bevellpah! Moon graphic is gorgeous!

Rachael, how nice!

I have been down with a severe migraine, and a short stay in the hospital for electrolyte rebalancing. Am all better now, and reviews for:

Blood and Circuses
Ruddy Gore
Urn Burial

shall come forth.

Before that, however, will come a review of Elizabeth Goudge's quiet book A City of Bells.

Also due: Silas Marner and Mistress of the Art of Death.

135mckait
Jun 26, 2009, 2:52 pm



{{{{{{{rd}}}}}}}

glad you are better :)

136alcottacre
Jun 26, 2009, 3:12 pm

Me too! I know how bad migraines can get. I am sorry to hear you have been suffering.


137TheTortoise
Jun 26, 2009, 4:24 pm

>134 richardderus: Rich, I am sorry to hear you had an attack of the unbalanced electrolytes. It must have been serious if you had to be hospitalised.

Not as clever as Stasia, but hope you are feeling better now.

~ TT

138Cait86
Jun 26, 2009, 4:42 pm

Echoing everyone else here - hope you are back to your normal self!

139jmaloney17
Edited: Jun 26, 2009, 4:54 pm

As one who has been puking my guts out every summer since I was 5, I sympathize. I will never learn to drink enough water to prevent migraine's, dehydration and hospital visits. One would think that after 30 years of summer misery, I would figure it out! I tell you though, that electrolyte solution they give you in the ER does wonders.

BTW, I say this as I take another sip of my Coke before I head out on my walk home on this 92 degree (Fahrenheit) humid day in the city. I guess I just like torture.

Hope you are 100% soon.

140richardderus
Jun 26, 2009, 5:56 pm

Thanks,all...I am pretty much back to what passes for normal for me. I now need to get some reviews out there!

141rainpebble
Jun 26, 2009, 6:38 pm

Sorry St. to hear that you have been so under the weather. We all thought you were just sick and tired of us. Glad to know you are on the mend and hope you are back to you curmudgeonous, gnarly self soon.
later babe,
belva


142Berly
Jun 26, 2009, 6:41 pm

Thanks goodness you are back!!

Hugs and Kisses (whether you want them or not!)

143mckait
Jun 26, 2009, 7:57 pm

I am so stealing that gif nanny

144rainpebble
Jun 26, 2009, 11:53 pm

Take it away mckait!~!
blubs & tisses 2 u 2

145richardderus
Jun 27, 2009, 4:44 am

The doc warned me I'd feel fragile today...I do...the electrolyte solution is not one to be used lightly, drat it! However, I have gone and got more Gatorade powder so as not to have this horrible problem recur, if I can help it.

146Berly
Edited: Jun 27, 2009, 6:55 am

Here's to the lemon-lime variety, stirred, not shaken, and very cold. (Orange Gatorade, not so much.) Take care.


147mckait
Jun 27, 2009, 6:44 am

chicken broth is good too, rd.. keep that in mind for your invisible poochie ...should she need it.

148womansheart
Jun 27, 2009, 9:22 am

Dear Richard -

So sorry to hear that you have been feeling awful. I missed your presence here and, of course, didn't know until your post that you were indisposed.

If tender thoughts (or two by fours, for that matter) could help with hurting heads, you would be well. Fragile is fragile. Maybe one of the characters in one of your books will have a fragile day or two rooted in your recent unpleasantness. I hope your sweetie is a good nurse.

If you are feeling low, just call my name, I'll be there as best I can.

With love,

WH

149richardderus
Jun 27, 2009, 10:19 am

>146 Berly: Berly-boo, thanks awfully old thing...my local stores only carry orange powder, but I am slowly becoming accustomed (as in, no longer retching) since it's been a year.

>147 mckait: mckait, broth needs to be hot, and when the temp is above 70, hot drinks are coffee and coffee and coffee. Soup, broth, stew, etc no no no. Poochie refuses all liquids not water or gin, so I think she's out, too.

>148 womansheart: Ruthleben, thank you thank you! It's amazing what a bout of fragility will do for one. And my sweetie, if by that we're referring to The Divine Miss, doesn't live here full-time, and also is a pretty crummy nurse. My sainted aunt is less than no help. I just go to bed and don't answer my phone.

150womansheart
Jun 27, 2009, 10:23 am

> Good plan. Just saying. Works for me, too.

WH

151rainpebble
Jun 27, 2009, 2:11 pm

Richard,
I guess I didn't realize just quite how very ill you have been. And the dog is ill also?
There is also a product called Pedialyte that is good for rehydration and you can give it to dogs as well as humans. I checked online and every link said to check with Dr. for dosage, etc. We used it with the grandkids a lot. But adults can use it as well.
Try to take care of yourself, get a lot of rest and hydration and get better soon.
I will be thinking of you. (as I always do, of course :-)
beleaevula


152Kittybee
Jun 28, 2009, 7:29 pm

Migraines = yuck! You have my sincerest condolences and I hope that you are feeling better :)

153kidzdoc
Jun 28, 2009, 8:22 pm

I'm glad you're feeling better, bro.

154richardderus
Jun 30, 2009, 11:07 am

Forty-four, forty-five, and forty-six of seventy-five:

Blood and Circuses
Ruddy Gore
Urn Burial
all by Kerry Greenwood, all basically the same.

I can't go on like this! I simply cannot bear Phryne's revolving-door vulva any more, nor Greenwood's obsession with pedophiles and girls in sexual jeopardy for one more minute.

Being the victim of a female pedophile, I can't abide the way sanctimonious women write about the *male* perps (and I say loudly and firmly right here and right now that I DO NOT SUPPORT PEDOPHILIC ACTIVITY IN EITHER GENDER) but never about the women. Ever.

I dislike this series now, and for more than just this reason. I am constantly irked by Greenwood's seeming unwillingness to flesh out her characters, instead preferring to "cut to the chase" though never the chaste. She tells us simply that Bert or Cec or Dot has decided to do ____ or a minor character simply vanishes (eg, Dr. Elizabeth MacMillan or Dr. Mark Fielding) for a few books and then with no backstory simply reappears to fulfil a plot function, is briskly dusted off and returns to the Character Closet in the Well of Lost Books that Thursday Next visits periodically.

No more.

155alcottacre
Jun 30, 2009, 11:47 am

Yikes! Greenwood's books are now on my 'never read in your lifetime' list!

I hope you have better luck with your next read, Richard.

156richardderus
Edited: Jun 30, 2009, 1:35 pm

Forty-seven of seventy-five:

The Kindly Ones by Jonathan Littell (no matter what I do, this stupid touchstone gives me some awful Neil Gaiman foolishness) makes me feel deeply unclean. I don'thave any idea what I would do, in the same circumstances as the author sets his protagonist into, but I suspect I would have been this protagonist had the same things happened to me at the same ages. Now...well, a 50-year-old is a different creature than a 22-year-old, no matter that us 50+ers want to think otherwise.

I abandoned this book, a library 14-day checkout, at p364. Ivan and Max (who is our protagonist) are scuttling around looking for Croats, and I ran aground when "Feldgendarmen" and "ACHTUNG! MINIEN!" occurred in close proximity. I just could not endure one more moment of German military terminology and I dislike the German language with sincere fervor, and then there is the slickly sickly slimy Max, with whom I can't bear to spend one more eyeblink; but good lord people, the amount I've already read would be a novel by itself!

As anyone who's ever read one of my reviews knows, I don't do book reports. The events of this book aren't in any way a surprise to you if you've been awake in the past year. I can say, though, that anyone who wants to deny the existence of a Holocaust would do well to read this novel. It feels like the events could not possibly be true. No one could live through this, perpetrator or not, and face life as a sane being ever again. So far as I am aware, the German nation did not have a huge insanity problem after WWII, so ipso facto there was no Holocaust!

Littell's story shows how well he understands the history of the (factual) Holocaust, and his choice of a protagonist shows how well he understands human nature and its strengths. It's a deeply disturbing book for that reason alone. That a man could imagine this character, could write about him in his own voice and with clarity, precision, and artistry, is unsettling to my vision of authors as refiners of reality into truth.

If Truth can contain this, there is no safe place anywhere.

And there isn't.

157morfam
Jun 30, 2009, 2:59 pm

Richard, My Literary Friend,

You was lost, and now are found, how the heck are you?

Not really surprising for me to not be able to find your posting. Afraid my computer nerdiness would have never allowed me access to this 'remarkable' site, had I not espied your post on the 'un-remarkable' What Are You Reading'.

I have spent the last hour reading the postings from your very dear and loving friends, plus your replies, and together they often had me in tears, crying out with laughter. Do you realise that you have a TV comedy series on the go when relating your episodes with exes and family?

What an amazing group this is, quite unique, I would say. It's beyond me to imagine another site that could offer up such a cornucopia, so full of witticisms and clever puns, such as are displayed here. There is also a cookbook on the go. After reading of some of the yummies that are on display throughout, I have a rumbly in my tumbly and am off to find the honey pot. Now I have the wife excited...

Your reviews have been illuminating and will cause many a poor starving novelist to sink deeper into penury, as they take up their familiar position on the sidewalk, cap in hand. Others will rejoice at the faint praise you offer them, more will jump up and down in ecstasy, and run screaming into the streets crying "he likes me, he likes me"...

I had waited for your review of The Kindly Ones, and found it hard to disagree with your feelings for the book. I would imagine Littell will find your views enlightening. I'm not sure that you do him a disservice in only reading 300 or so pages. Like me, you found it a disturbing read, but also an illuminating study of German character during those terrible times.

It has been noted by many book critics that one would either like the book or hate it, but it is still a book that should be read. I continue to believe it to be a lesson for all those who would doubt for even a second that the Holocaust was a myth,
perpetrated by the Jews. Having lost family in the death camps, I will continue to urge people never to forget...

158mckait
Jun 30, 2009, 5:19 pm

I feel vindicated in my refusal to read The Kindly Ones

159mckait
Jun 30, 2009, 5:19 pm

same T-stone issue rdear..

160richardderus
Jun 30, 2009, 5:53 pm

>155 alcottacre: Hidy Stasia! How's by you?

>157 morfam: morfam, I had previously attributed your absence from this thread to a deep-seated dislike of me. I am pleased that it was instead simply incompetence. *whew*

>158 mckait:, 159 mckait, isn't that just completely annoying?!? And no no no, never give in to anyone's pressure to read The Kindly Ones! You would never again go to bed a happy woman. It's so very...filthy.

161petermc
Jun 30, 2009, 6:50 pm

#154 - "I simply cannot bear Phryne's revolving-door vulva any more" - LOL, this is the same reason I hated the TV series "Sex and the City".

#156 - Unlike you, I love the German language, and with a growing library devoted to German military and Holocaust history, I look forward to one day delving into The Kindly Ones, which I've had on the bedside pile for some months. On a general note, it is interesting to me that while this novel received great praise in France, it has met with a much cooler reception in the U.S. Thank you for posting your opinions.

162FlossieT
Jun 30, 2009, 7:50 pm

Ditto what Kath said in >158 mckait:. I now know enough people personally (in my mind, the 75 Book Challenge counts as "personal") that have either read it or tried to that I feel pretty confident I couldn't hack it.

163alcottacre
Jun 30, 2009, 7:57 pm

#160: Doing fine, Richard. Heading out of town again tonight, so I am catching up as I can on threads.

164cameling
Jun 30, 2009, 9:59 pm

Took me a while to catch up on your reviews because i've just been swamped with work. I'm so sorry the Fisher series so irked you. I've been fortunate not to have been the victim of any sort of abuse so I had nothing to base her stereotyping victims and their abusers on. I am impressed though that you were able to read so many in her series consecutively. I find it difficult to read an entire series consecutively. I find I need to take a break after reading 2 back to back, because if I read the third, I find I get tired of the writer's voice and I need to break it up with someone else's voice, and preferably of a different genre as well.

Greenwood's peekaboo characters to me, were minor and incidental to the story, so their on and off again appearance didn't bother me much.

I wish you better reads soon to lift your spirits.

165morfam
Jun 30, 2009, 10:16 pm

Richard

What on earth would prompt you to believe that I had a deep-seated hatred of you?

I believe you jest, but jest in case, let me say hear and now, before all and sundry, that I have nothing but admiration for your witticisms and your literary skills. I only wish I were as talented in my writing days, I'd be on me way to a Wurlitzer by now.

Sorry, meant a Pulitzer.

Speaking of organs, may I assure you, dear sir, that I would feel safe putting my deep seat in your hands any time. Er..that didn't come out right, did it?

166rainpebble
Jul 1, 2009, 1:11 am

LOL, they just keep popping up St.
Ya know, I have been sitting here reading, laughing, (as usual) and pondering (my word of the day-ponder). I may have to yell again.
How many of the damn things have you read!?!?
And NOW, now you can't take her anymore?
My goodness, you are a patient man.
And did you know that patience is a virtue?
Thus making you you a virtuous man?


glitter-graphics.com

167mckait
Jul 1, 2009, 6:03 am

162 FlossieT said

"(in my mind, the 75 Book Challenge counts as "personal")

me too :)

Richard, what do you have in mind for some literary palate cleansing?

168richardderus
Jul 1, 2009, 8:40 am

>161 petermc: petermc, I think The Kindly Ones could work for you, given those basic differences in taste between us...though I am not averse to reading Holocaust memoirs and such-like, not au fond hostile to Germans, and certainly able to see the profound artistry even in books I loathe (eg, Death on the Installment Plan, Lord of the Rings), this book...well...I think it's high praise to say it made me feel unclean.

>162 FlossieT: Hi Rachael! Welcome! And yeah, I think our threadies here on the 75-Books Challenge forum count as personal acquaintances.

>163 alcottacre: Stasia, have fun! Come back safe and well!

>164 cameling: cameling, I read research romances between the Phrynes, and some Welty short stories because, like you, I feel one author's voice can get to be a dreary drone if it's all one hears. I don't document the research romances because they barely count as reading. It takes two hours cover-to-cover for the good ones, and those are the ones I put in my collections.

I think it's actually a mark of how good Greenwood is at creating characters that I was feeling so...bereft, cheated...by their scanty presentation. As to the abuse factor, that wouldn't have come into the situation had it not been used in five of the seven books I read.

>165 morfam: morfam, of course I was kidding, and I don't want anyone to think I was fishing for the (greatly appreciated!) compliments. Your Wurlitzer is in heaven, good sir. The Great Bookstore in the Sky is always open to you. And just hand your wet anorak to Belva, she's in the Vestibule. Apparently determined to spend eternity as a coat-check girl for the Elect.

>166 rainpebble: Bivalve, that's just me all over! Patient and virtuous! Yeup yeup yeup.

>167 mckait: how do, sweetness, I plan to read (in fact, am 100pp into) Storm Front by Jim Butcher. I've heard such wonderful things about Harry Dresden that I had to check it out. Of the library, I mean.

169richardderus
Jul 1, 2009, 10:35 pm

Forty-eight of seventy-five:

Apparently Stella the Jindo nurses an ambition to read one day. While clearing out her corner for a good sweep, I found a library book I'd forgotten I checked out: A Question of Death, which is a collection of short fiction about Kerry Greenwood's flapper sleuth Phryne Fisher. The dog had fanged it over to her corner and hidden Milk Bones within and behind it.

Well, one can't ignore fate. I read the stories, in all it took about three hours. I can now return the book, and I am still not a fan of the series, though I have a much more nuanced picture of Phryne's minor characters.

Since a big part of what I complain of in these books is that very lack of nuance, I wonder...if Ma Greenwood had used these character sketches in the books where she used the characters, would I have overlooked her male pedophilia fetish? Her overuse of that trope bugs me enough that I doubt it, but I am not at all sure.

I wish, now that I know she CAN write the backstories of her minors, that she WOULD and incorporate them into entire books! Consarn the sheila!

170rainpebble
Jul 1, 2009, 11:55 pm

All that just to say you are STILL reading her?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

171mckait
Jul 2, 2009, 6:41 am

just popping in to see what goes on here this morning~

172msf59
Jul 2, 2009, 6:50 am

Richard- Checking in and seeing how you are enjoying the Harry Dresden book. It's light fare but entertaining. I'm hoping the series gets stronger as it goes along!

173karenmarie
Jul 2, 2009, 8:43 am

I like the Dresden books too, although I read the first four books in about a week and figured I'd give the series a rest for a bit.

Looking forward to your review, richarddear.

174richardderus
Jul 3, 2009, 12:10 pm

Forty-nine of seventy-five:

Mistress of the Art of Death by Ariana Franklin was a group read here on LT...The Highly Rated Book Group sponsored it, with the game-though-gravid Vintage_Books leading us through some very trenchant questions about our impressions of both the book and the world it's set in...and thank goodness for that! It's a lot more fun to read a book in a group of like-minded people, ones who read on multiple levels like our brethren and sistern here on this site.

Adelia Vesuvia, our sleuth, is a forensic physician in a time when I didn't know such existed. The twelfth century is a time period I find extremely fascinating. I've read a fair bit about this time, focusing on English and French history and the Crusades (those horrific events!); Catholic Church history at this time, when the schism from Eastern Orthodoxy was new and the invention of religious primacy in matters of the state was being consolidated, is also an interest of mine.

This book's evocation of that time is appealing to me precisely because it's relatively new to my somewhat jaded sensibilities. Salerno as the primary focus of Western medicine is a well-trodden path; the fact that Salernitan physicians could be women is not well-trodden, and the simple IDEA of forensics in this time...! Irresistable pulls for me, the historian-who-hated-school.

So I was disposed from the giddy-up to like the book. The author's execution was the primary unknown quantity for me. I am thrilled and delighted with the execution because the characters, while displaying anachronistic ideas and ideals, are quite believably constructed and supplied with plausible motivations for their divergent social attitudes. I can willingly suspend my disbelief at every turn where the story requires me to do so. That's very high praise from me!

Characterization, in a series mystery, is make-or-break. Do I, the reader, like this group of people enough to continue inviting them out to dinner? (The price of a hardcover book being equivalent to the price of an entree at a tablecloth restaurant; the trade paper to an entree at Applebee's or TGIFriday's; the rack-size to a value meal at the local McDonald's; which restaurant am I willing to take these characters to?) The answer, while unique to each individual, is the source of the publisher's and author's income. It behooves all parties to the preparation and publication of a mystery to consider this. The good people at Putnam, now a tentacle of the Penguin empire, have done a very very good job of making this assessment and bringing a solid, interesting cast of regulars to my table at Le Cirque.

Sir Rowley, Adelia Vesuvia's English suitor, is a fine example. He's three dimensional in his pursuit of her, not simply presented as out to get some one thing; I think of some of the characters in Ellis Peters' Brother Cadfael mysteries as contrasts to this quality of characterization. We're given to understand that Sir Rowley has goals and ambitions that Adelia Vesuvia can both forward and threaten in equal measure. His ultimate place in her life, and her in his, isn't a foregone conclusion. Both characters are presented as struggling with what the other means to them on multiple planes. That's just plain good storytelling. It will keep me buying hardcovers as long as Franklin keeps doing it.

The minor characters, eg Gyltha the housekeeper and Mansur the Moor, are deftly drawn as well. They don't, in contrast to many series mysteries, come across as convenient mouth-pieces for the author's needed plot developments. (*cough*PhryneFisher'sDot*cough*)

Finally, the integration of real political developments like Henry II's move to take control of the Church's legal framework in his empire, is seamless enough to take a moment to recall as factual instead of created. It's necessary to move this plot forward. But it's also the historical reality. Well done, madam! Seldom achieved in fiction, still less the less-respected "genre" fiction that mysteries are published as.

This is a four-and-a-half star recommended book. Sally forth and procure it from yon bookery.

175mckait
Jul 3, 2009, 3:49 pm

176msf59
Jul 3, 2009, 8:01 pm

Good review on Mistress. It sparked my interest, so I added it to my wishlist. Another title by her, City of Shadows ,also sounds very intriguing.

177rainpebble
Jul 3, 2009, 10:01 pm

Extremely good review here St.
You got a big fat thumbs up from me and made me
want to go out and get the book. (I suppose that is, after all, the idea, isn't it?) I am not big on mysteries, but I may have to read this one.
Excellent job my friend!~!
belva

178richardderus
Jul 3, 2009, 10:06 pm

>176 msf59: Mark, the book is worth your time. I think City of Shadows is, so far, not as deeply engrossing, but still very interesting.

>177 rainpebble: Belvaaaaaaah, I don't know about you reading this book...it has lots of big words and funny names and stuff....

;-P

179Berly
Jul 3, 2009, 10:12 pm

Drive-by (literally!) hug.

180rainpebble
Jul 3, 2009, 10:16 pm

I'll let you keep the thumbs up because you earned it and you deserved it but:

181richardderus
Jul 3, 2009, 10:19 pm

>179 Berly: Berly-boo, thanks! Back at'cha.

>180 rainpebble: B, that GIF is completely hilarious! I love it!

182mckait
Jul 4, 2009, 6:46 am

I stole it and put it on my profile :)

183FlossieT
Jul 4, 2009, 5:42 pm

Great review, Richard. Reckon joycepa started it, but you finished it for me: Ariana Franklin's book now has a definite "to-purchase" deadline. She's doing a 'Bodies in the Bookshop' event in Cambridge in late July and clearly I have to show up to let her know how much y'all love it...

(Am I allowed to say "y'all"? My US passport has expired and although I took my first steps in Oklahoma City it's not really true "y'all" territory. I hear.)

184Whisper1
Jul 5, 2009, 8:48 am

Happy Sunday Richard
Work was consuming in June and in addition, I was out of town for a week in sunny, hot Florida for a conference. I'm weary. I'm simply stopping by to say how much I appreciate your witty banter, lightening quick humor and all the delightful comments you leave throughout our 75 challenge group.

Thanks!

185lunacat
Jul 5, 2009, 9:25 am

#183

May I declare that you are absolutely and completely NOT allowed to say y'all. So there.

186Whisper1
Jul 5, 2009, 9:30 am

Luna
Y'all sounds much better than the phrase frequently heard in here Northeastern PA...."YOUZ." How are Youz doing? "Are Youz ready to order from the menu?"
"Oh, Youz guys is so funny!"

187lunacat
Jul 5, 2009, 9:37 am

In that case she's not allowed to say Y'all OR youz :)

188kidzdoc
Edited: Jul 5, 2009, 9:50 am

Pittsburghers say "yinz" instead of "youse": "Yinz goin' dahntahn ta watch da Stillers game?" (English translation: "Are all of you going downtown to watch the Steelers game?")

Clearly Rachael is not allowed to say "youz/youse" or "yinz". If she can say "y'all" with a honeydew sweet Southern accent, then I suppose it's okay.

189lunacat
Jul 5, 2009, 9:51 am

Believe me, if she's been infected with the British accent, she cannot say y'all with a honeydew sweet Southern accent........it will just sound WRONG!! lol

190tloeffler
Jul 5, 2009, 11:58 am

Beg to differ, lunacat. Look at Britisher Vivien Leigh in Gone With The Wind--I think she pulled the accent off fairly well! Those of us in the midwest who aren't really southerners and aren't really northerners say "you all." Although I'm tickled to hear kidzdoc say "yinz." My thoroughly southern MO grandmother (from Oran MO, thank you very much) used to say it that way all the time. When we cousins are together, we sometimes use it in her memory. Then we laugh and laugh.

191lunacat
Jul 5, 2009, 11:59 am

I'm sure Flossie with be incredibly pleased to hear herself compared to Vivien Leigh :)

192mckait
Jul 5, 2009, 12:09 pm

ack...

Despite being a Pittsburgher yinz makes my ears bleed.
ick

I do use y'all at times for fun..

193FlossieT
Edited: Jul 5, 2009, 5:23 pm

>191 lunacat: mixed feelings. A Streetcar Named Desire is up there in my all-time favourite films. On the other hand, my memory leaks abysmally nowadays, but didn't Vivien Leigh go mad in the end?

ETA: I shall be sure to avoid "y'***" in future. I don't know what came over me. My accent tends towards the Estuary nowadays so it's probably for the best.

194morfam
Edited: Jul 5, 2009, 7:31 pm

Indeed, poor Vivien did have what one can courteously call a mental breakdown. There were those that said it was caused by a sexually transmitted disease - the swine!

I loved Miss Leigh, and will continue to do so for ever and ever...you all...

195Whisper1
Jul 5, 2009, 11:43 pm

I'm always amazed at the things I learn on LT! Poor, sad Vivien.

196tloeffler
Jul 6, 2009, 10:08 am

Sometimes I'm glad to be plain and poor. The worst things seem to happen to the beautiful and the rich.

That's what I keep telling myself...

197karenmarie
Jul 6, 2009, 11:27 am

#174 Richarddear - thanks for reminding me about Mistress. I have just BookMooched it and hope that the moocher accepts!

Back to the y'all thing - I have lived near Chapel Hill NC for 18 years and started saying y'all about 10 or 12 years ago. I say it with an Iowa/Nebraska Midwestern Accent inherited from my parents overlaid with my Southern California upbringing accent. It comes out quite nicely and naturally.

198womansheart
Jul 6, 2009, 12:06 pm

> remarks having to do with the use/non-use of ya'll.

Native southerner here. I've used this contraction of *you all* throughout my entire "verbal expressions history".

Many of the settlers in the coastal southern area of the USA were from the UK and somewhere in the recesses of my brain there is some link to Southerners picking up some of the more British Isles pronunciations of the English language. Where else can we come up with a word that so simply and easily refers to an entire group being addressed as a group/unit? I think maybe some people have grown to believe it is a sign of lack of education on the part of those who use it. Not necessarily so. Just saying.

Any linguists out there know the history?

I would love to be in the group of us LTers that are declared fans of Ariana Franklin's body of work if our friend Rachael has an opportunity to pass along our admiration to her (Miz Franklin) at the book shoppe event.

WH

199richardderus
Jul 6, 2009, 2:02 pm

Further to the "y'all" discussion. "Y(ou)'all" is efficient and euphonious, at least in comparison to the hideous blatt of "youse" and the completely igmo-sounding "yinz" (which is actually lazy-tongue for "you'uns").

English got rid of the second person, "thou", and moved the third person up. Mexican Spanish has done the same thing for second person plural: "vosotros" (lit. "you others") went *piff* about 80 years ago and has not been seen since. It's an actual loss. How does one indicate a person has moved closer to one than the hoi polloi? In German, to take a hideous example, there is "Sie" for people one meets on the streets and "du" for someone close enough to come over without calling first.

Why not, I propose, use "thou" for the hoi polloi and "you" for people we like? Eh? What? Eh?

Weekend spent disassembling shelves, moving tools, making dinners, and generally zooming around like Buffalo Bill with the lid off.

Hi everybody! Love yinz!

200richardderus
Jul 6, 2009, 5:30 pm

Fifty of seventy-five:

Storm Front by Jim Butcher was a read inspired by the Dresden Files's many admirers here on LT. Mark, msf59, has mentioned this series of books with a special sense of enjoyment, and I can't dismiss Mark's enthusiams lightly. He's steered me right often enough to earn that.

Well. The book. Chicago isn't a place I willingly go, because it's just never been fun to be there. If Chicago starts being like Harry Dresden's Chicago, I will think about it a lit harder.

Dresden, the only "out" wizard practicing in Chicagoland, has a number of problems: Making the rent; finding a date; convincing his spirit-guided-cum-computer to do its job and not editorialize about his life; avoid the Doom of Damocles that hangs over his head from a past transgression. Not to mention solve a sorcerous murder that, in the absence of other known wizards in the area, could bring down that Doom of Damocles.

All in one stormy spring weekend.

I am pleased, if unsurprised, to report that he succeeds on all counts. It's a lousy weekend, from many standpoints; how many people would want to visit the vampire madam of a high-class call girl emporium and end up with her teeth mere inches from your throat? And that's just ONE trouble he faces, and faces down.

Harry Dresden is an antidote to the general modern social tendency to make everything that happens around one Not My Fault. Harry, bless his cottton socks, things everything is All My Fault. It's a little wearing. The man needs some Ativan.

In the end, I was entertained by this book exactly enough to be agreeable and receptive to reading the next book in the series. My branch of the liberry has it, and I shall go check it out. In both senses of the word.

Would I buy one of these marvies? Nuh-uh. Good enough to read, not good enough to own. Recommended for the fans of Lord Darcy, remember him?, and of Sam Spade (if they're adventurous fans). Check them out of the library FIRST!

201msf59
Jul 6, 2009, 6:10 pm

>Richard- Good job on the Storm Front review! I think you nailed it perfectly. Light entertaining fare and maybe his writing gets deeper and darker as the series progresses, one can hope. I too, will read the next book,(I managed to Bookmooch it awhile back) just no real hurry! As far as the location goes, that was one of my problems. You can easily tell he doesn't know Chicago very well, he's writing about it from Missouri somewhere. I think if you are going to set a series in a particular place,visit it often and get a good feel for it. Once again maybe this improves in the subsequent books!

202TadAD
Jul 7, 2009, 7:17 am

>200 richardderus:: Actually, I think they're significantly better than the Lord Darcy books, not quite as good as Hammett.

>201 msf59:: I've read all in the series so far and he never really gets much better at Chicago. Still, they're fun.

203karenmarie
Jul 7, 2009, 9:13 am

#200 I've read the first four all in a rush then decided to wait a while before reading the 5th and subsequent ones.

I found the first 8 or so at the thrift shop for 50 cents each, so it wasn't a major capital investment. It would have cost me more from the library since I'm so terrible at getting books back in a timely manner and usually end up paying fines on books. Not audio books, mind you, just book books. For some reason I seem to be able to turn in audio books on time.

Good review. I think I liked the first one a tad more than you did.

204richardderus
Jul 7, 2009, 9:46 am

Fifty-one of seventy-five:

A City of Bells by Elizabeth Goudge was published in 1936. It shows its age in the various creaky plot mechanisms that, in today's publishing world, would get this tome bounced out the doors of any major publishing house.

And what a mistake that would be. Goudge writes in a gentle, soothing voice about a time that, even in 1936, seemed distant and innocent. She writes about characters who, despite their predictable entanglements and pat problem resolutions, make the reader feel like he has added some beloved members to his family. These are characters whose motivations are always for something, never against; these are men and women whose basic focus is, "How can I best serve the people I love?"

For that reason, and almost only for that reason, this is a heartily recommended book. Anyone whose mental furniture includes mid-century English fiction (eg, Angela Thirkell's Barsetshire novels) will lap this up. Its Christian themes are not unobtrusive. They are also quite deftly interwoven into the story, such that the book wouldn't be the same or even as good without them. Modern writers of Christian fiction could take a lesson from Miss Goudge! (And I wish they would...does anyone know Francine Rivers's email addy?)

205Whisper1
Jul 7, 2009, 10:14 am

What a great review of a City of Bells. Not only have I added it to the tbr pile, but I gave your review a thumbs up.

206rainpebble
Jul 7, 2009, 12:28 pm

St. Richard;
When you set to, you write a beautiful review.
A thumbs up from me as well.
I love Goudge. Her works seem so timeless.
b

207rainpebble
Jul 7, 2009, 1:19 pm

208TheTortoise
Jul 7, 2009, 1:52 pm

>204 richardderus: Rich, I tried to read another book by Elizabeth Goudge but gave up on it. A City of Bells on your recommendation goes on my wish list!

~ TT

209richardderus
Jul 7, 2009, 2:08 pm

>205 Whisper1: Linda, ooo goody! I am so glad to have had an impact. If you don't like it, I will reel in shock, clutching my too-rapidly-beating heart, as the world goes black before my dimming eyes.

>206 rainpebble:&7...Beelzeva, what hath I wrought by sending you that cheat sheet?! But I am very pleased and flattered that you liked my review.

>208 TheTortoise: Milord, I think you're going into the books expecting something that you're not going to get. I'd say that you should plan to approach the reading of Goudge as a rainy-Sunday-with-a-drink process.

210mirrordrum
Jul 7, 2009, 2:18 pm

#204 richard, what a fine review. I'm anticipating that city of bells will bring the same kind of reading pleasure as do John Galsworthy and Anthony Trollope. both those authors translate well into audio and I'm hoping the same for Elizabeth Goudge.

i like that you mention "characters whose motivations are for something, never against." I'm trying to think of another book for which that's consistently true and can't.

i think a little innocent distance would sit well just now.

thanks again for the review.

211richardderus
Jul 7, 2009, 2:42 pm

>210 mirrordrum: mirrordrum, I am so pleased you feel that the for-not-against statement is important. To me, it's the heart of the book. I am no fan of namby-pamby snore-inducing goody-two-shoes books. I am always pleased to read books that are positive, though, and that's what this one is...positive, affirmative, and a lip-smackin'-good antidote to that creepy, ghastly, hugely important book The Kindly Ones.

212mirrordrum
Jul 7, 2009, 2:51 pm

#richard--to which The Kindly Ones are you referring? the touchstone gives the sandman: the kindly ones but i see there are several others. i can imagine that Gaiman could write a creepy, ghastly, hugely important book but suspect that's not the one you meant.

on my way to order city of bells from NLS. :)

213richardderus
Jul 7, 2009, 3:13 pm

>212 mirrordrum: Stupid touchstones never work on this book. I won't ever read anything by Neil Gaiman, so you're so right to doubt that's the one I meant!

It's the Jonathan Littell book that caused such a kerfuffle when it first came out. Some reviewer somewhere called it "Holocaust porn." Apt description, IMO.

214mirrordrum
Edited: Jul 7, 2009, 5:09 pm

#213 ah well. i shall read Gaiman and Pratchett but having glanced at a couple of reviews (times and new yorker) and learned that I'd have to listen to 900 pages of a book where 'long sections of bureaucratic analysis alternate with moments of mind-numbing sadism' and where paragraphs can run on for pages, i won't even look for an audio version.

the city of bells, however, is winging its way thither along with the worm ouroboros and several other treats.

'celebrate diversity,' i say.

thanks again for the review and the response to my query.

215rainpebble
Jul 7, 2009, 9:58 pm

St.Richard;
Sweetie, honey; you got that big fat thumbs up all on your own writing merit my dear. You wrote a good review and I rewarded you. hee hee.

But.....I never did receive that cheat sheet. So I can do the gif thingy, but not underline, line through, italicize, etc.

However, I love you anyway and the wedding is still on!~!

216suslyn
Edited: Jul 8, 2009, 9:17 am

Gack! Only 215 posts behind...

ETA okay -- caught up

217rainpebble
Jul 9, 2009, 11:05 pm

St. Richard;
Thank you so much. Now if I can just figure it out!
I was playing on the "pooter" and came across this and now, believe and trust me, I am not pissed at you, but if I were:



218alcottacre
Jul 9, 2009, 11:09 pm

Just back into town, Richard, and stopping in to say 'Hello.'

Great review of City of Bells, one I read earlier this year as well and loved - I put it on my memorable reads list for the year as a matter of fact. Glad to see that you enjoyed it!

219mckait
Jul 10, 2009, 9:52 pm

Very lengthy thread ya have here ~ ~

220richardderus
Jul 12, 2009, 12:48 am

>214 mirrordrum: Mirrordrum...this decision I soildly supporthe t!

>217 rainpebble: Beelzeva, that GIF is perfection, since I've just spent the past few hours having a nasty fight with The Divine Miss about feeling unappreciated (on both parts).

>218 alcottacre: Yodeleewhooohooo, Stasia! Glad to see you...it was your read of A City of Bells that tipped the scales. What a beautiful book!

>219 mckait: and this from a FOUR-thread-havin' woman.

Below my review of The Lost City of Z.

221rainpebble
Jul 12, 2009, 12:54 am

Oh, oh, oh; I cannot wait to read this!~!
hugs n stuffs,
belova

222Berly
Jul 12, 2009, 1:04 am

Not much reading; not much threading. Attended oldest daughters soccer tournament Friday and today. Semi-finals tomorrow. Hugs. :)

223rainpebble
Jul 12, 2009, 1:09 am

Oh Berly;
The very best of luck to her team!~!
Enjoy while you can. The books and the B.S. will wait happily.
blubs,
belva

224richardderus
Jul 12, 2009, 1:15 am

Fifty-two of seventy-five:

The Lost City of Z by David Grann is the exciting, unusual story of the last of the Victorian polymath explorers on his quest to prove the unthinkable: That the Amazon, that "false paradise", supported a major technologically advanced civilization before the Columbian Holocaust.

Percy Fawcett took his oldest son and his oldest son's best friend into the depths of Amazonia in 1925, to search for a place that the consensus of scientific wisdom of the time said could not exist. From that day to this, there has been no evidence of these three mens' existence. This by itself would provide the bones of a fascinating story. Why would a father risk his son's life in so unlikely a quest? Why bring the son's best friend? What the ruddy bleeding hell was a 58-year-old man THINKING to do this at all?!?

Percy Fawcett was supported by his wife, who was his son's mother, and the mother of the best friend, as well as the Royal Geographical Society. He was a veteran Amazonian explorer. His son was himself writ young. His son's friend, well, it's on such trips as this that a man uncovers his true self, and the best friend was...wanting.

The story of Percy's life, as Grann tells it, is interesting; the story of the exploration of the Amazon is interesting; the story of the many, many attempts to find the three disappeared explorers is not as interesting, but is very deftly compacted into a few passages.

The author's expedition to follow Percy Fawcett's footsteps is, blessedly, brief in the telling. Exactly long enough, in fact. What the author, a fat middle-aged shlub who writes for The New Yorker, discovers...should be front-page news.

Read this book. No evasive "maybes" no "I'll get around to it"s just go GET THIS BOOK AND READ IT. No one with an ounce of human curiosity can possibly regret reading The Lost City of Z.

225Berly
Jul 12, 2009, 1:17 am

Oh! That sounds most excellent. Shall put it on the top of the long list. Much appreciated (really!).

226alcottacre
Jul 12, 2009, 1:23 am

#224: I have had a copy of the book for months now. I will move it up the Planet, Richard, I promise :)

227richardderus
Jul 12, 2009, 1:27 am

Oh Berly, Stasia, how I hope you're each serious! what an amazing read, how important the book is, and just...WOW.

228alcottacre
Jul 12, 2009, 1:36 am

I actually know where to find my copy of that one, Richard, so I will be picking it up and taking it with me on my travels this next week.

229rainpebble
Jul 12, 2009, 1:49 am

Very nicely done Richard. I am so glad you liked the book. It is really a different kind of book isn't it? I totally agree that this should have been front page news. And wasn't it interesting that the journalist who authored it had never written a book before? I hope he writes more.
Congrats on another good one!~!
b

230richardderus
Jul 12, 2009, 10:07 am

Fifty-three of seventy-five:

Baking Cakes in Kigali by Gaile Parkin is a shoo-in for the bestseller lists. If the popularity of Alexander McCall Smith's Precious Ramotswe books is any index to American willingness to embrace African women as heroes, I can think of no earthly reason this tome won't light up the charts.

I found Angel and her husband Pius to be entertaining companions. The five grandchildren they are raising in post-genocide Rwanda reflect the realities of life in Africa...orphans everywhere, no matter where you look, and only the very lucky have a place to go where they are loved and nurtured.

Angel and Pius should, by the lights of their Tanzanian upbringing, be preparing for their ascent into elderhood, being looked after by the children they carefully raised. The children are dead, and the elders are thrown back into parenthood. This central tragedy is the spine of the book.

It's not a tragedy to Angel, in the sense that she revels in the life of a society cake-supplier, something she began as a home-based business to support the grandkids and has become a passionate addiction. Angel is famous in Kigali for the creative splendor of her cakes, ordered by the best and the brightest of the city to commemorate the milestones of life. Angel gets to hear all the gossip worth hearing and involve herself in all the doings of her world.

The book is a sure-fire pleasure read for many, if not most, fans of domestic fiction. It's something that readers should make a point of browsing in the local bookery.

231TheTortoise
Jul 12, 2009, 10:39 am

>209 richardderus: Rich, what do you think I am looking for in Elizabeth Goudge, because I have no idea! :)

>224 richardderus: Rich, another one on the Wishlist! (I will read it one day, maybe, perhaps, when I get round to it).

~ TT

232mckait
Jul 12, 2009, 12:03 pm

????????????

233rainpebble
Jul 12, 2009, 12:12 pm

Kath;
cat got your tongue?

234mckait
Jul 12, 2009, 12:21 pm

kinda

There have been no rd sightings in my thread~ I am feeling neglected and wondering why????

235rainpebble
Jul 12, 2009, 12:32 pm

Ah, he's off somewhere posting away like mad. I saw him running around somewhere. He probably just hasn't made it there yet. It's still early, give him time. Don't pout. It is not attractive on you.
And like you, if they don't come to me --- I go to them. Gettin' good at it. "Oh, damn, here she comes again!~!" hee hee
blubs,
belva

236mckait
Jul 12, 2009, 2:57 pm

love ya belva belle

237alcottacre
Jul 12, 2009, 9:12 pm

#234: Richard does not visit me any more either, Kath. We can feel neglected together :(

238richardderus
Jul 13, 2009, 10:38 am

Now, now girls...I visit, I just don't intrude on your girl-power threads!

Actually, I am frantic right now. I have a few minor crises a day, it seems, the latest being a married Turkish man developing a passion for me and calling a lot when I have stuff I need to do, then crying because I won't drop everything and console him. The sad truth is, I like his wife more than I like him. Though he has a friend....

Auntie issues. Appliance issues. Deconstruction of a chunk of my guest bedroom issues. And The Divine Miss is escaping to Italy in a few weeks, for two weeks.

I'm not posting a lot anywhere. Nothin' personal. Love each and every dandelion wisp on your head, mckait, and you, Stasia, remain the Goddess of my Pagan Idolatry. Belva, of course, I am now engaged to; and Milord du Tortoise, well, he's looking for Goudge to be a modern writer and so demonstrating his Englishness.

239alcottacre
Jul 13, 2009, 2:31 pm

Richard, I am sorry to hear that you are having so many issues. I hope things improve for you very soon!

240Berly
Jul 13, 2009, 4:22 pm

I was trying not to whine about my feelings of neglect on your own thread, in case you were overwhelmed with life or something, but now that you have said all these nice things about everyone else and I got nada...I wish I'd whined! LOL. Hope your issues resolve quickly! Hugs.

241Berly
Jul 13, 2009, 4:25 pm

This message has been deleted by its author.

242richardderus
Jul 13, 2009, 4:54 pm

>240 Berly: Berly...? *head scratch* ...Do I know a "Berly"...?

>239 alcottacre: Stasia, thanks! I really shouldn't take on so, nothing that's going on is anything more than mildly inconvenient; it's simply that it's all happening at once.

And goodness knows fat middle-aged bald guys should belt up when attractive 30-year-olds with great bodies express an interest in them, reciprocated or not.

243mckait
Edited: Jul 13, 2009, 5:58 pm

speaking of whining Berly....

( just kidding rd, just kidding.. I realize you are not whining it is just exaggerated swishing)

if a hunk of a 30 year old showed an interest in me, I too would run for the hills by the way, and perhaps like the wife better too :)

244msf59
Jul 13, 2009, 8:20 pm

Richard- First of all, nice review on Lost City of Z. We are creating a legion of fans, deservedly so! I saw you started Full Moon, I have that waiting in the wings and it might be there awhile but I'm anxious to see your opinion. On your next visit to the liberry,check out Already Dead by Charlie Huston. It's the 1st book in his vampire P.I. series and it's incredible. Gritty and brutal and kind of leaves Harry Dresden in the dust! Do yourself a favor!!

245Berly
Jul 13, 2009, 8:57 pm

I now have The Lost City of Z in my hands and have put aside all other reading. Mark and Richard -- high hopes here! Full Moon looks good, too, darnit! I am going to have to take one of those speed reading classes soon...

246msf59
Jul 13, 2009, 10:22 pm

Berly- Did you say put aside all other reading? Don't we have a group read coming up real soon, missy??

247tiffin
Jul 13, 2009, 10:32 pm

Ricardo, I hope you are wearing your tiara and cape these days. Nothing worthwhile can be done without them.

248Berly
Jul 13, 2009, 10:39 pm

Mark--Not to worry. I have two whole days to read Z! And then, of course, I will launch right back into Pillars on the appropriate start date of Wednesday. And let me just say that you are clearly going to be an excellent Group Leader: crack that whip! (See why I need to read faster?!)

249rainpebble
Jul 13, 2009, 11:24 pm

Ah, Berly, me girl;
You may have 2 whole days to read "Z", but even if you finish before "Pillars", you won't be done with it. "Z" will stay in your head, rolling round and round for weeks, I can promise you that. It WILL pop in there at the most inconvenient of times even. But you are in for the treat of the year!~!
Gooooo Berly!~!

250rainpebble
Jul 13, 2009, 11:38 pm

Richard, my dear;
I hope I won't offend you by praying for you and your situations tonight when I hit my knees.
belva


glitter-graphics.com

251richardderus
Jul 14, 2009, 3:57 am

>250 rainpebble: Belva dearest, it will never, ever offend me to be prayed for. Prayer is a huge and powerful force for good. I do it meownselves, just not to Jesus. Still works, BTW.

>249 rainpebble:, 248, 245 Berly-boo...the Bivalve is right...Z will offer shiny, pretty facets of itself in memory, and it will glisten dimly in the corners of your eyes when you read about something to do with an unhappy family, a huge dream that someone pursued at all costs, and so on.

Now don't start Pillars too late, though, it's simply mammoth. To tell the truth, I think I'm going to have to get one of those book-holding dealios from Bas Bleu. Just can't stick it with my arthritic hands, sadly.

>247 tiffin: Tui, puh-leeze! I haven't had the tiara off except to re-henna my (remaining) hair in simply years!

Sadly, though, most of that is on my shoulders....

>244 msf59: Thanks, Mark! I hope the book raises awareness in its readers...the Eurocentric view of world culture isn't the only view.

>243 mckait: mckait, the wife is no peach, sad to say. She has no laughter in her eyes. He's lonely for some wonder. Poor guy.

252mckait
Jul 14, 2009, 5:57 am

To have a spouse with no laughter in their eyes is a very sad thing. I know.

253alcottacre
Jul 14, 2009, 6:40 am

One of the best things about my hubby is his sense of humor. He needs it being married to me :)

254richardderus
Jul 14, 2009, 9:54 am

>252 mckait: mckait...which is why you give, and have, such amazing friendships. It helps bear up.

>253 alcottacre: dear Stasia...we all need humor to bear the load of another person's heart. It's a good task, satisfying and rewarding and sometimes joyous, but it's darn hard work for all that.

255rainpebble
Jul 14, 2009, 10:15 am

Richard;
If I had you there would be laughter in my eyes every moment of every day. I would just only cry every night!~! **chortle, snortz**

256richardderus
Jul 14, 2009, 10:25 am

When it takes my cable internet connection longer than an eyeblink to load my own thread, time for a new one.

257womansheart
Jul 14, 2009, 10:47 am

>242 richardderus: et al - Richard - Rapier wit, Jolly good sense of humor to go with it, intelligence that is barely contained in a cup that runneth over with it, AND fuzzy shoulders. My G_d, Richard. You are prolly beating 'em off with a stick. Keep up the good work, Mister D. You are da bomb.

Your fan club member -

WH

258TheTortoise
Jul 19, 2009, 7:45 am

>238 richardderus: "and Milord du Tortoise, well, he's looking for Goudge to be a modern writer and so demonstrating his Englishness." It is interesting you should say that because I never used to read any moderns before I joined LibraryThing. I am a Classics enthusiast but I hardly read the Classics now or perhaps I have exhausted that field! There are still one or two I would like to read. I have always been fascinated by historical fiction and that is what is getting my attention at the moment.
I have discovered the Historical Novel Society and have just received a couple of their magazines.

~ TT

259alcottacre
Jul 19, 2009, 7:50 am

#258: I have discovered the Historical Novel Society and have just received a couple of their magazines.

I hope you pass along reading suggestions, TT! I would love to see them.

260TheTortoise
Jul 19, 2009, 8:23 am

By the way, today is my one year anniversary as a member of LibraryThing!

It feels like I have been here for years.

~ TT

261alcottacre
Jul 19, 2009, 8:33 am

Happy Thingaversary, TT! I just celebrated my third in May.

It does feel like you have been here for years, doesn't it? I love that feeling!

262msf59
Jul 19, 2009, 8:44 am

Congratulations on the LT anniversary! I celebrated my 1st in June. Glad you are enjoying "Pillars" so much. I'm at the 200 page mark, reading slow, which isn't easy.

263mckait
Jul 19, 2009, 8:45 am

Happy Thingaversary!!!!!!!!!!

I know what you mean, I feel the same way~

264rainpebble
Jul 19, 2009, 11:09 am

Happy Anniversary ~~TT. We are so glad that you are here with us all. I will be celebrating my 2nd next month. LT has all but literally been a life saver for me. It feels like home.
Happy Sunday to all of you. Let us all worship in our own ways and be thankful.
belva

265MidnightTears
Jul 19, 2009, 12:25 pm

Just wanted to say hi!

266Berly
Edited: Jul 19, 2009, 11:57 pm

Happy Thingaversay TT!! (Stealing it McKait) I just hit my half-year mark. Totally love it here. No one else in my immediate family understands my book fetish and I feel totally understood here. Loving Pillars! Almost caught up to you. ;)

267Berly
Jul 20, 2009, 12:02 am



Hello Reeshaaaard, Dahling.

(Had to check the top of this site, because there were so many well wishes for TT, that I almost forgot this is Richard Dear's site!! (Are you coming back soon? Or are you still in crisis mode?))

268mckait
Jul 20, 2009, 6:59 am

rd is host extraordinaire on the weekends...
he has too many RL people to contend with to come into LT

He will show up this morning.....

269richardderus
Jul 20, 2009, 11:48 am

As mckait predicted, here I am with 15min left for it to be called "morning" here on the east coast.

No fresh crises erupting, blessedly, but the old ones reverberating. My sainted aunt has a doctor's appointment this afternoon to look into her worsening leg-pain problem. The weekend, like much of last week, was taken up with appliance issues. 2/3 fixed. Still need the washdisher to be installed.

Milord, happy belated Thingaversary! My third is August 13th.

Anyone want to join me on the NEW thread? http://www.librarything.com/topic/68941