The End of Mr. Y
by Scarlett Thomas
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Description
A cursed book. A missing professor. Some nefarious men in gray suits. And a dreamworld called the Troposphere? Ariel Manto has a fascination with nineteenth-century scientists--especially Thomas Lumas and "The End of Mr. Y, "a book no one alive has read. When she mysteriously uncovers a copy at a used bookstore, Ariel is launched into an adventure of science and faith, consciousness and death, space and time, and everything in between. Seeking answers, Ariel follows in Mr. Y's footsteps: She show more swallows a tincture, stares into a black dot, and is transported into the Troposphere--a wonderland where she can travel through time and space using the thoughts of others. There she begins to understand all the mysteries surrounding the book, herself, and the universe. Or is it all just a hallucination? show lessTags
Recommendations
Member Recommendations
mpettitt Another book where philosophical thinking is encouraged within the plot
61
Widsith Both slightly bonkers Kent-based novels-of-ideas with supernatural elements...I think Barker is the better writer, but Thomas has the whole geeky-cool angle covered.
Also recommended by VisibleGhost, debbiereads
souloftherose Scarlett Thomas' earlier novel The End of Mr Y shares many similar themes with Our Tragic Universe
20
by anonymous user
Member Reviews
from the book cover, i was expecting a whimsical victorian fantasy, or at least a light read perfect for when i need perking up...
a couple of chapters in and i was getting annoyed that i've been misled...but then i got sucked in...and the book never let me go.
i almost do not want to describe anything about this book. it's spent so long on my bookshelves that i have forgotten what it was about...and discovering the content as i read it was wonderful. there's actually barely a plot or character development. the book is fluffed by meandering reflections and discussions on physics, philosophy, religion and on the relationship between reality and language...i think...
at times it got too overindulgent, but nothing unforgivable. i dont think show more it was ever preachy. reading it felt more like having a drunken discussion with friends at university when we were young/foolish enough to think we can actually figure out the big questions looming before us (how wrong we were!)...
there's a lot of ideas in the book that i would love to read again. among them is the idea that a book is actually a thought experiment, where we see the world through the eyes of the characters (a kind of telepathy with the fictional world). and as we shift through the perspectives of the different characters, we eventually see through the eyes of the author living in their own time (a kind of telepathy in the real world!).
i really liked that ^_^
from the book:
"Let me become part of a book; I'd give anything for that. Being cursed by the End of Mr.Y must mean becoming part of the book; an intertextual being: a book-cyborg, or...perhaps a bibliorg." show less
a couple of chapters in and i was getting annoyed that i've been misled...but then i got sucked in...and the book never let me go.
i almost do not want to describe anything about this book. it's spent so long on my bookshelves that i have forgotten what it was about...and discovering the content as i read it was wonderful. there's actually barely a plot or character development. the book is fluffed by meandering reflections and discussions on physics, philosophy, religion and on the relationship between reality and language...i think...
at times it got too overindulgent, but nothing unforgivable. i dont think show more it was ever preachy. reading it felt more like having a drunken discussion with friends at university when we were young/foolish enough to think we can actually figure out the big questions looming before us (how wrong we were!)...
there's a lot of ideas in the book that i would love to read again. among them is the idea that a book is actually a thought experiment, where we see the world through the eyes of the characters (a kind of telepathy with the fictional world). and as we shift through the perspectives of the different characters, we eventually see through the eyes of the author living in their own time (a kind of telepathy in the real world!).
i really liked that ^_^
from the book:
"Let me become part of a book; I'd give anything for that. Being cursed by the End of Mr.Y must mean becoming part of the book; an intertextual being: a book-cyborg, or...perhaps a bibliorg." show less
The End of Mr Y is Scarlett Thomas' newest book, which got a limited release last winter which I missed, and is now out in wider release (and a very handsome edition it is too). Thomas is an interesting writer, who often seems to be expressing her own thinking about various topics which interest her through her fiction. She expresses that more explicitly here - the lead character, Ariel, is a sometime journalist, sometime PhD student, who writes an article for a magazine where she starts off talking about one thing, examines it in depth for a few articles, and then flows from there onto her next topic, examines that in depth and so on. Mr Y is hard to pin down, partly as a consequence of that - it's a mystery, a conspiracy thriller, it show more plays with ideas of quantum physics, Big Bang theory, language and reality, the nature of God, 19th century philosophy, a fantasy, and eventually its own take on mythology.
In simple terms though, the plot is apparently straightforward to begin with: Ariel is writing a PhD on the role of the thought experiment as both science and narrative fiction ... linking Henry James to Einstein thinking about relativity in terms of trains; or Schrodinger's Cat for example. Her thesis has been derailed slightly by first the unexpected disappearance of her mentor, and then by one of the university buildings collapsing into an old abandoned tunnel. That leads to Ariel discovering a vanishingly rare copy of a fabled Victorian book - by an author related to her thesis; a book that is said to be cursed such that anyone who reads it either dies or vanishes.
The book - the eponymous The End of Mr Y - leads Ariel into a conspiracy, hunted by rogue CIA agents, as she discovers a formula in the book that allows her to wander through the collective consciousness of humanity. To say more would run the risk of spoiling it a bit, but rest assured, it flows a lot better than I am perhaps doing justice to here. Ariel's quest into the mysteries of the book drew me in, and held me there.
The main flaw in the end is the epilogue which - as Thomas herself acknowledges in the afterword - perhaps takes the ending one step too far, spelling out something explicitly that would have perhaps been letter left unsaid. However the ride to get there is worth the read. There's a degree of similarity here with the Raw Shark Texts - both books play with ideas of language and reality, and characters who can ultimately rewrite parts of existence through manipulating their knowledge.
Thomas' achievement is to write what is essentially a novel of ideas in such a way that you are carried along with the thriller elements of the plot while happily absorbing the sidebars on deconstructionist philosophy without really noticing you're doing it. Fun, and stimulating. show less
In simple terms though, the plot is apparently straightforward to begin with: Ariel is writing a PhD on the role of the thought experiment as both science and narrative fiction ... linking Henry James to Einstein thinking about relativity in terms of trains; or Schrodinger's Cat for example. Her thesis has been derailed slightly by first the unexpected disappearance of her mentor, and then by one of the university buildings collapsing into an old abandoned tunnel. That leads to Ariel discovering a vanishingly rare copy of a fabled Victorian book - by an author related to her thesis; a book that is said to be cursed such that anyone who reads it either dies or vanishes.
The book - the eponymous The End of Mr Y - leads Ariel into a conspiracy, hunted by rogue CIA agents, as she discovers a formula in the book that allows her to wander through the collective consciousness of humanity. To say more would run the risk of spoiling it a bit, but rest assured, it flows a lot better than I am perhaps doing justice to here. Ariel's quest into the mysteries of the book drew me in, and held me there.
The main flaw in the end is the epilogue which - as Thomas herself acknowledges in the afterword - perhaps takes the ending one step too far, spelling out something explicitly that would have perhaps been letter left unsaid. However the ride to get there is worth the read. There's a degree of similarity here with the Raw Shark Texts - both books play with ideas of language and reality, and characters who can ultimately rewrite parts of existence through manipulating their knowledge.
Thomas' achievement is to write what is essentially a novel of ideas in such a way that you are carried along with the thriller elements of the plot while happily absorbing the sidebars on deconstructionist philosophy without really noticing you're doing it. Fun, and stimulating. show less
This was a fascinating premise for a book that simply became less and less pleasant to read. The science-fantasy aspects remained interesting, and I managed to get used to the constant name-dropping of philosophers and theorists (in fact, the book made me want to become better acquainted with Jacques Derrida). What I couldn't get beyond was the extremely unlikable protagonist, Ariel, who also narrates the book in first person.
I suspect that Thomas' motivations in making her lead so damaged was to suggest that she has "nothing left to lose," which allows Thomas to justify some pretty extreme actions as the book goes on. But there's nothing to even invite you to identify with Ariel's point of view; instead, she's just cynical, bitter, and show more hard from the moment we meet her. Worse, you're left reading the story of a deeply self-destructive individual who routinely serves herself up for violent sex with self-absorbed men, apparently only to motivate the ever-increasing "tailspin" of the plot - and frankly, that's not what I meant to sign up for with a mind-bending fantasy novel. It just feels so unnecessary; it has almost no bearing at all on the SF/F aspects of the story, and there are other, more subtle ways to bring a sympathetic character to desperation. It's been a few weeks since I finished the book, and I'm still at a loss as to why Thomas chose this method. It left me feeling - well, icky - and as a result, a novel of otherwise interesting world-building will remain unrevisited (and in fact, I plan to get rid of my copy). show less
I suspect that Thomas' motivations in making her lead so damaged was to suggest that she has "nothing left to lose," which allows Thomas to justify some pretty extreme actions as the book goes on. But there's nothing to even invite you to identify with Ariel's point of view; instead, she's just cynical, bitter, and show more hard from the moment we meet her. Worse, you're left reading the story of a deeply self-destructive individual who routinely serves herself up for violent sex with self-absorbed men, apparently only to motivate the ever-increasing "tailspin" of the plot - and frankly, that's not what I meant to sign up for with a mind-bending fantasy novel. It just feels so unnecessary; it has almost no bearing at all on the SF/F aspects of the story, and there are other, more subtle ways to bring a sympathetic character to desperation. It's been a few weeks since I finished the book, and I'm still at a loss as to why Thomas chose this method. It left me feeling - well, icky - and as a result, a novel of otherwise interesting world-building will remain unrevisited (and in fact, I plan to get rid of my copy). show less
Post-structuralist physics with a plot, which is how it ought to be since even an equation is really just a love story told by someone with Aspergers. Come to think of it, there are autistic kids, or more accurately, KIDS in the plot and they come to a bad end with the help of the CIA, but if you're worried about spoilers, we could just go back to before that happened, only we'd better do it before the end of The End of Mr. Y.
Personally, I'm post-Post-structualism, but I still enjoy a romp through the existential questions that need to be resolved before the end of the story which luckily is not the end of our personal story. Like the main character, I too want to know everything but unlike a fictional character, I don't get to find show more out. Books are subject to intelligent design and its characters are created by an author outside the story though they usually are unaware of this (though T. E. Lumas knows he's really Mr. Y). Characters' worlds are created by language, and to some extent, we create ours with language as well. We spend much time in the Lacanian Symbolic register, but there's also a real register even if we can't really talk about it because talking is symbolic. Still, it's there, though I'll bet many of us readers feel like Ariel, preferring books to embodied existence. We're all connected through ancestry, proximity, language, and empathy and posting on Goodreads and destroying the troposphere can't disconnect us. What passes for a resolution at the end is insufficiently satisfying but when you're out to explain everything, this is to be expected.
I enjoyed the extra edges everything has when their fourth dimensionality is limited to three since I've seen the diagrams of tesseracts (aka hypercubes), the videogame interface to reality, and Ariel social-engineering the password to Saul's computer, (but does she ever make use of what she downloads from it?) And what of the diseases that would never have been cured without experiments on mice? Maybe one of those now incurable illnesses would kill Hitler and prevent the holocaust.
Reading others' reviews of this book makes me see the difficult position the author finds herself in. She wants to engage with the thoughts of various philosophers and theorists, but she can't just explain them from scratch. So some readers felt she under-explained, others felt she over-explained. Some felt threatened by the ideas being there at all, and blamed Ms. Thomas of pretension. In my opinion, she did reasonable well with this insoluble problem. She might understand Dasein better than I do, but I don't think she fully grasps that the zeros and ones of machine code is just another metaphor. To be fair, most computer scientists don't either. show less
Personally, I'm post-Post-structualism, but I still enjoy a romp through the existential questions that need to be resolved before the end of the story which luckily is not the end of our personal story. Like the main character, I too want to know everything but unlike a fictional character, I don't get to find show more out. Books are subject to intelligent design and its characters are created by an author outside the story though they usually are unaware of this (though T. E. Lumas knows he's really Mr. Y). Characters' worlds are created by language, and to some extent, we create ours with language as well. We spend much time in the Lacanian Symbolic register, but there's also a real register even if we can't really talk about it because talking is symbolic. Still, it's there, though I'll bet many of us readers feel like Ariel, preferring books to embodied existence. We're all connected through ancestry, proximity, language, and empathy and posting on Goodreads and destroying the troposphere can't disconnect us. What passes for a resolution at the end is insufficiently satisfying but when you're out to explain everything, this is to be expected.
I enjoyed the extra edges everything has when their fourth dimensionality is limited to three since I've seen the diagrams of tesseracts (aka hypercubes), the videogame interface to reality, and Ariel social-engineering the password to Saul's computer, (but does she ever make use of what she downloads from it?) And what of the diseases that would never have been cured without experiments on mice? Maybe one of those now incurable illnesses would kill Hitler and prevent the holocaust.
Reading others' reviews of this book makes me see the difficult position the author finds herself in. She wants to engage with the thoughts of various philosophers and theorists, but she can't just explain them from scratch. So some readers felt she under-explained, others felt she over-explained. Some felt threatened by the ideas being there at all, and blamed Ms. Thomas of pretension. In my opinion, she did reasonable well with this insoluble problem. She might understand Dasein better than I do, but I don't think she fully grasps that the zeros and ones of machine code is just another metaphor. To be fair, most computer scientists don't either. show less
Full marks for ambition: no doubt about it. Scarlett Thomas, whose name sounds like a pseudonym but apparently isn't, shows real imagination and no small portion of erudition in constructing the world of Ariel Manto (whose name really is a pseudonym, and an anagram at that) and the "Troposphere" she happens upon when researching a long dead and forgotten Victorian mystic called Thomas Lumas, in which much of the action - and philosophical musing - comprising The End of Mr. Y happens.
Yes, you read that right: Thomas combines a conventional "confront/defeat the monster" plot, which could almost earn a Hollywood treatment, with some thickly-laid on metaphysics which, even in the hands of the Wachowski brothers (to whose films this book show more bears only the flimsiest of similarities) decidedly would not especially as, ultimately, Hollywood-grade plotting loses out to post-structuralist posing some way before the end. Now you don't see *that* happen too often, so three cheers for that. And in parts it is a joyous, righteous, pseudo-intellectual romp.
But in others it's just pseudo-intellectual: the means by which Thomas seeks to bring about her epistemological triumph over the (disappointly thinly drawn) bad dudes displays nothing like the lightness of touch such a manoeuvre requires. For one thing, she doesn't pull her philosophical punches at the slightest hint of stage 1 brain in a vat metaphysics, as a less ambitious (but more successful) writer might. Instead, she indulges on long ruminations, delivered in improbably lengthy and articulate chunks, about more obscure and difficult thinkers like Derrida, Baudrilliard, Heidegger and Husserl, with whom she should not expect the greater part of her (or any) audience to be well acquainted. Obliged, therefore, to indulge in exposition she elects to explain the salient insights of these thinkers through implausible conversations between characters who, if attention were being paid to plot arc and character development, would have better things to be thinking and talking about. Alas when she does have her characters do something else, it invariably involves copulating, which, given the narrative constraints she has imposed, is about as unlikely as casual dialogue about literary theory and to my reading seemed quite unneccessarily grittily depicted. As a way to give this novel an edge the fornicatory aspect seemed forced, gratuitous and, frankly, dull - like the intracies of Heidegger's dasein, a personal obsession Scarlett Thomas might have been better advised to keep to herself.
For all that, when she does allow the plot to dictate the pace it picks up mightily and zips along. The characters face some neatly constructed conundrums, crises and paradoxes which flow from and support her epistemological point. The writing is playful and, at times, neatly constructed: there are in-jokes and word plays throughout, and I don't pretend to have got anything like all of them.
In the end - though it may pain Ms Thomas to hear it - the cod philosophy can be safely dispensed with and the slightly icky bonking glossed over, since the wonderful contrivance of Thomas Lumas (itself a self-referential play on words, I suppose) and his Troposphere with its console, its choices, the mouse god Apollo Smintheus and his misfiring scooter carry the day, no matter how incoherent the whole may ultimately be. show less
Yes, you read that right: Thomas combines a conventional "confront/defeat the monster" plot, which could almost earn a Hollywood treatment, with some thickly-laid on metaphysics which, even in the hands of the Wachowski brothers (to whose films this book show more bears only the flimsiest of similarities) decidedly would not especially as, ultimately, Hollywood-grade plotting loses out to post-structuralist posing some way before the end. Now you don't see *that* happen too often, so three cheers for that. And in parts it is a joyous, righteous, pseudo-intellectual romp.
But in others it's just pseudo-intellectual: the means by which Thomas seeks to bring about her epistemological triumph over the (disappointly thinly drawn) bad dudes displays nothing like the lightness of touch such a manoeuvre requires. For one thing, she doesn't pull her philosophical punches at the slightest hint of stage 1 brain in a vat metaphysics, as a less ambitious (but more successful) writer might. Instead, she indulges on long ruminations, delivered in improbably lengthy and articulate chunks, about more obscure and difficult thinkers like Derrida, Baudrilliard, Heidegger and Husserl, with whom she should not expect the greater part of her (or any) audience to be well acquainted. Obliged, therefore, to indulge in exposition she elects to explain the salient insights of these thinkers through implausible conversations between characters who, if attention were being paid to plot arc and character development, would have better things to be thinking and talking about. Alas when she does have her characters do something else, it invariably involves copulating, which, given the narrative constraints she has imposed, is about as unlikely as casual dialogue about literary theory and to my reading seemed quite unneccessarily grittily depicted. As a way to give this novel an edge the fornicatory aspect seemed forced, gratuitous and, frankly, dull - like the intracies of Heidegger's dasein, a personal obsession Scarlett Thomas might have been better advised to keep to herself.
For all that, when she does allow the plot to dictate the pace it picks up mightily and zips along. The characters face some neatly constructed conundrums, crises and paradoxes which flow from and support her epistemological point. The writing is playful and, at times, neatly constructed: there are in-jokes and word plays throughout, and I don't pretend to have got anything like all of them.
In the end - though it may pain Ms Thomas to hear it - the cod philosophy can be safely dispensed with and the slightly icky bonking glossed over, since the wonderful contrivance of Thomas Lumas (itself a self-referential play on words, I suppose) and his Troposphere with its console, its choices, the mouse god Apollo Smintheus and his misfiring scooter carry the day, no matter how incoherent the whole may ultimately be. show less
I require a very high bar for spec fic books based predominantly on quantum mechanics, but I think Thomas did a very good job here. She clearly learned her stuff, and uses it sparingly and deeply when used. I'm less a philosophical expert, but it seemed to be handled similarly. All of that being said, while many books use quantum mechanics in service to the plot, Thomas seems to be writing more of a Sophie's World style, where the plot exists to advance her thoughts on quantum mechanics and philosophy.
While this seems to have turned a lot of people off, I found her completely forthright about it: this is a book about a main character who is writing her thesis about novels that are thought experiments. This is a novel that is a thought show more experiment: let's say we could enter thoughts. If that were possible, what would it mean for how thoughts are made? What would that say about what it means to be conscious? Is what we learned from this thought experiment generalizable even in a universe where thoughts aren't a manifest place that can be visited? Those are fun questions to ask and explore.
When she veers away from that core, the book really falls flat (the love story? The random officemate who was into evo bio and got totally dropped, even though I really wanted her to integrate into the main plot line?), but that's OK, because it's not supposed to be a proper novel. My only real complaint is the ending kind of petered out.
I thought Thomas had interesting thoughts about what it means to think, what defines consciousness and whether emergent consciousness is possible. I was intrigued by the thought process of whether defining phenomena mathematically instantiates them or merely defines them and I think she explores this in a particularly deft and nuanced way. show less
While this seems to have turned a lot of people off, I found her completely forthright about it: this is a book about a main character who is writing her thesis about novels that are thought experiments. This is a novel that is a thought show more experiment: let's say we could enter thoughts. If that were possible, what would it mean for how thoughts are made? What would that say about what it means to be conscious? Is what we learned from this thought experiment generalizable even in a universe where thoughts aren't a manifest place that can be visited? Those are fun questions to ask and explore.
When she veers away from that core, the book really falls flat (the love story? The random officemate who was into evo bio and got totally dropped, even though I really wanted her to integrate into the main plot line?), but that's OK, because it's not supposed to be a proper novel. My only real complaint is the ending kind of petered out.
I thought Thomas had interesting thoughts about what it means to think, what defines consciousness and whether emergent consciousness is possible. I was intrigued by the thought process of whether defining phenomena mathematically instantiates them or merely defines them and I think she explores this in a particularly deft and nuanced way. show less
This ambitious novel is hard to pin down - a sort of post-modern psychodrama with Gothic overtones involving philosophy, quantum physics, mind-melding and time-travel.
It's an attractively produced book with striking covers and brilliant black page edges - does it live up to the design? Well partially - mainly because at 502 pages in the edition I read it is rather sprawling...
The main plot about a lost book, which contains the recipe for mind & time travel, and is said to curse all who read it is top notch. Ariel, the heroine, is a sparky and independent post-doc student, yet is needy and always broke. The bad guys are suitable threatening, and Ariel gets the help she needs in the right times and places to resolve matters.
Yet show more interspersed with the action are myriad philosophical discussions about deconstruction (c.f. Derrida) and quantum mechanics, which while very interesting, do slow things down significantly. Their purpose as I see it is to posit a deconstructivist framework in which mind/time travel 'could work' using the wave-particle duality - in that everything exists as waves until you look for something and then it is pinned down in time/place. (I'm glad I have a basic grounding in the subject so wasn't put off by it).
A novel that takes serious concentration - it took me a week to read, which is slow for me, but is no less enjoyable for that! show less
It's an attractively produced book with striking covers and brilliant black page edges - does it live up to the design? Well partially - mainly because at 502 pages in the edition I read it is rather sprawling...
The main plot about a lost book, which contains the recipe for mind & time travel, and is said to curse all who read it is top notch. Ariel, the heroine, is a sparky and independent post-doc student, yet is needy and always broke. The bad guys are suitable threatening, and Ariel gets the help she needs in the right times and places to resolve matters.
Yet show more interspersed with the action are myriad philosophical discussions about deconstruction (c.f. Derrida) and quantum mechanics, which while very interesting, do slow things down significantly. Their purpose as I see it is to posit a deconstructivist framework in which mind/time travel 'could work' using the wave-particle duality - in that everything exists as waves until you look for something and then it is pinned down in time/place. (I'm glad I have a basic grounding in the subject so wasn't put off by it).
A novel that takes serious concentration - it took me a week to read, which is slow for me, but is no less enjoyable for that! show less
This review was written for LibraryThing Early Reviewers.Members
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Published Reviews
ThingScore 63
Thomas writes with marvelous panache, although I wish she indulged less in her earnest calls for homeopathy and animal rights. Amid all the novel’s engaging questions about the nature of reality, it’s hard to get worked up about a subplot that has Ariel traveling through time to save laboratory mice. Still, she spins Derrida and subatomic theory into a wholly enchanting alternate universe show more that should appeal to a wide popular audience, and that’s something no deconstructionist or physicist has managed to do. Consider “The End of Mr. Y” an accomplished, impressive thought experiment for the 21st century. show less
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- Canonical title
- The End of Mr. Y
- Original title
- The End of Mr Y
- Original publication date
- 2006 (US) (US); 2007 (UK) (UK)
- People/Characters
- Ariel Manto; Thomas Lumas; Saul Burlem; Wolfgang; Heather; Adam
- Important places
- Canterbury, Kent, England, UK; Kent, England, UK; The Troposphere; Faversham, Kent, England, UK; The Shrine of St. Jude, Faversham, Kent, England, UK; Hertfordshire, England, UK (show all 7); Torquay, Devon, England, UK
- Epigraph
- But what if God himself can be simulated, that is to say can be reduced to the signs that constitute faith? Then the whole system becomes weightless, it is no longer itself anything but a gigantic simulacrum--not unreal, but ... (show all)a simulacrum, that is to say never exchanged for the real, but exchanged for itself, in an uninterrupted circuit without reference or circumference.--Jean Baudrillard
Indeed it is even possible for an entity to show itself as something which in itself it is not.--Martin Heidegger - Dedication
- For Couze Venn
- First words
- You now have one choice.
- Last words
- (Click to show. Warning: May contain spoilers.)And then I understand.
- Blurbers
- Coe, Jonathan; Pullman, Philip; Coupland, Douglas
- Original language
- English
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- Reviews
- 117
- Rating
- (3.75)
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- 11 — Danish, Dutch, English, French, German, Italian, Norwegian (Bokmål), Portuguese, Spanish, Swedish, Turkish
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- Paper, Audiobook, Ebook
- ISBNs
- 43
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