sibyx starts over: One

January
1. Kevin J. Anderson Hidden Empire first of seven, space opera (science-lite), enjoyable ***1/2
2. Christopher Isherwood The World in the Evening F ****
3. Mary Ann Shaffer The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society F, ww2, recommended ***3/4
4. Patrick Marnham Wild Mary: A Life of Mary Wesley
5. Charles Stross Toast sf/short stories ****
6. David Grann 6322050::The Lost City of Z adventure *****
7. Helen Humphries 57071::The Lost Garden contemp fiction ****1/2
8. Kevin J. Anderson A Forest of Stars space opera

Currently Reading
John Cowper Powys A Glastonbury Romance F, a huge tome, group read
Kevin J. Anderson Horizon Storms #3 7 Suns.... space opera
Jeremy Bernstein Quantum Leaps Science
Laura Talbot The Gentlewomen for Virago week
Nathaniel Philbrick Mayflower

The new audiobook is The Hotel on the Corner of Bitter and Sweet about Japanese Internment in WWII by Jamie Ford. I've ordered Mayflower on ILL from my library..... I think I probably have around 100 pages to go, but I can't listen any more.

NOT CHOSEN to read from my TBR shelves this January or ever: Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt If anyone is dying for this book I'm happy to send it to you; it was a gift, I am not sufficiently interested to spend the time on it. I get it. I am the traffic. You are the traffic. We are all the traffic. That pretty much sums it up!

Genny -- I think I contacted Peggy because she had folks like Powys in her author cloud, I nearly fell over. I was the only person I knew who even knew who he was, if you can follow that! Peggy and I have no plan of reading quickly so hop on the bus with us! I've read around ten pages, Peggy is up in the 20's but I think we'll be easy to catch up with!

Found your new thread! I'll have to check if I have a copy of A Glastonbury Romance - haven't got to that part of my cataloguing yet... But if not, I'll try to get hold of a copy fairly quick, and try to catch you up.

I think I came across Cowper Powys as a result of a series of lectures on Arthurian Literature when I was an undergraduate. The last couple of lectures were about various 20th century authors who had explored the Arthur material, however indirectly in some cases. That was how I came across Charles Williams and the poet and artist David Jones also.

Hi Lucy!
I will not agonize or have fun with GIFs this year - as I did last year!
Too time consuming.
So imagine a stunning star here! :)

(Let's see how long that resolution lasts!)

Glad to see you in the 2011 group, Lucy!

Found you Lucy! Looking forward to your book related thoughts in 2011.

I'm a bit distressed that I can't remember how I found Powys but I know it had something to do with my own similar interest in all things Arthurian -- but I know it was tweaked when someone mentioned it as a book that literally transports you there.... and I wasn't disappointed.

I've avoided the Gifs for just that reason!

I know what you mean.. :P
but this one is handy so.. starred!

Glad to see you over here. No chance I will be doing CowPow. Oh well.

what is cowpow?

Doubt I'll be doing it either!

OIC

John Cowper Powys - author of some very strange and compelling books, one of which Lucy and Peggy are currently reading, possibly joined by me...

thank you !

Oh, well I might do that someday .

Have to be careful what I agree to around here!

Lucy...about fiction and agenting...one huge factor in acquiring an agent is getting known, and getting the word out...pimping...but it can be done in a new and different way.

May I suggest that you offer your current novel as a free download onto the Nook? Let some of the 75ers know this is the case, and let them review it in the proper places (aka EVERYWHERE) and see if some serious traffic can't be generated! And while I'm not an agent, I still know people who know people who know people, and would be happy to inform the said people of a free NookBook....

My only caveat is, make SURE the book is catalogable! Meaning somehow, even if it's a paid service, get it an ISBN and a record in the Library of COngress. Whatever investment that takes, I promise it will make your download far more interesting to more people, because they can lend, recommend, and catalog it!

Hi Lucy. Looking forward to learning more from you this year. :)

Thank you Richard and I really and truly mean that. I think I ought to be able to figure out how to get an ISBN number and then figure out how to get it on-line and available.... it makes a lot of sense. And it is the kind of approach that I feel comfortable with.

Back to mention a book matter: There always seems to be one book at Christmas that everyone likes to pick up and read and laugh about -- this year that book is Sh** My Dad Says. I decided not to get all starchy about it; this is how the guy really talks and he's very funny. But we did, today, declare noon as the cut-off point for reading passages out loud from the book.... Enough is enough!

The agent thing.

I would probably start with information from a book, because that's just the kind of gal I am--that's how I learn best. I'd want to feel like I had a handle on the "traditional process." I haven't read this one, but it looks good enough that I will probably put it on my Kindle. It was published in 2006, so I'm sure that if he were writing it now he might add a thing or two about self-publishing--or he may have. As I said, I haven't read it, just thumbed through the TOC.

How to Get a Literary Agent, by Michael Larsen.

If you really want to go the self-publishing route, then there's plenty of instruction for that on the Internet. Here's a guy who seems like he might know a thing or two:

a href="http://reviews.cnet.com/self-publishing/">Self-publishing a book: 25 things you need to know

How fun.

Ed to fix the html. Cripes, don't know why that's not working.

--I have no idea, it ought to work. I guess plug in the URL if you're interested.

http://reviews.cnet.com/self-publishing/

>20 labwriter:. I just read the article that I referenced here--"Self-publishing a book: 25 things you need to know." It will tell you how to buy an ISBN number. It will tell you a lot of other things too--things we already know. He writes it from the perspective of a person who has done all of this for his own fiction ms. I should have read it on a day when I was feeling a little bit stronger. Heh. The guy isn't trying to discourage anyone, IMO; but I do think he's trying to give all of us wanna-be's a good dose of Grandma's Reality Elixir.

Well, I have already broken New Year's Resolutions # 1, 2, and 5. So bye for now.

Hi Lucy, found and starred you. I loved Mayflower ... you're in for a good time. I don't know how I'd have liked it as an audiobook though because when I was reading it, I found I had to keep flipping back pages for references to people and places that I had forgotten or couldn't quite keep straight in my head.

>22 cameling: I have had to do that -- rewind -- a lot, and I have to turn it off whenever the driving gets at all, ahem, interesting..... but otherwise it's going pretty well. I am a highly audiobiased learner -- learn best that way, reading just goes in one eye and out the other. The other reason I have to turn it off is that it gets too intense. I get too upset about how good intentions and common sense are so hard to sustain. The beginning , when they were exploring Cape Cod was wonderful because I know that whole area upside-down and backwards, especially between P-town and Eastham.

Thank you Becky -- I am bookmarking your suggestions and Richards. I can see what I'll be doing this spring.... getting this thing uploaded, that's what, so I can move on.

I'm the opposite ... I learn best by reading .... but my resolution for 2011 though .. the only one I'm making this year since I think that might increase my chances of actually keeping my resolutions for a change ... is to listen to an audiobook again. The last time I listened to one was more than a decade ago ... there seems to be a fair number of LTers who sing the praises of audiobooks, I figured it's time I gave it another shot. Maybe now that I'm older (but not much wiser) I'll be able to concentrate better at being read to.

I am with you on that too, Caro.. I do not do audio well.. but I want to have another go at it. Eventually, I will try it with American on Purpose.

I now have to add Mayflower to my wishlist. I blame you two...I have avoided it for a while and you were the final (double ) straw etc.

The best audiobook I ever listened to was Barbara Tuchman's A Distant Mirror The reader was sublime and the material was knock you flat interesting (as in may you NOT be cursed to live in such times.) That said, Jim Dale, reading Harry Potter is a treat and a half. We love to read the books aloud to each other, but we ALSO like to listen to Jim Dale because he is just plain excellent.

I'm with you on the visual learner vs. audio learner thing. I'm hugely visual, to the point that I have a very hard time with audio books. However, this summer I was painting woodwork in my house and I was desperate for something besides the radio or TV, so I starting listening to audio books. I did pretty well, although I found that I did better with fiction than non-fiction. The fiction I could keep in my head, but the NF I had a lot harder time with. So I would suggest that if you know auditory learning isn't your learning mode of choice, but you still want to try some audiobooks, then start out with some that aren't too complicated.

I hope this isn't all just completely obvious, but this is what I found that helped me.

Very good points! Not totally obvious -- and it is another testament to how different everyone is, I tend to find fiction harder to listen to, my mind wanders a bit more. I think it is the ADD kicking in -- focus focus focus -- fiction is less directly demanding word for word so my mind wanders.....

Don't misunderstand that last statement, I mean it in the most literal sense, of keeping dates straight, following a battle plan, that sort of thing. Not the deep inner meaning stuff, which of course, makes fiction ultimately much more complex! And why I think I find that richness and texture more accessible on the page. I read good passages aloud a lot....

Another Nook publishing review site:

http://www.fastcompany.com/1649714/barnes-and-noble-nook-pubit-publishing-e-publ...

Very interesting!

good points.. and that is one reason I will try it with the Craig Ferguson book, I love him, live his accent and he does the reading, and it is said to be very funny, although non-fiction. Sooo..

Welcome over here, Lucy!!!! I'll just chime in (since I know nothing about publishing) with my own learning style. When I take the tests which teachers often do in learning style workshops {AND I DON'T EVER HAVE TO ATTEND ANOTHER ONE!!!!!!!}, and my own experience bears this out, I am split exactly between auditory and visual. My preference is to read first and then to listen. Or to listen and take copious notes. Or to read and mark and comment.

As for learning style, I think mine is definitely visual not auditory. I can never remember things like names or other details unless they are written down. I think it comes from absorbing so much information from books as a child, while hardly speaking to a soul for years unless I really had to (and presumably not listening much either!). One consequence was having a large vocabulary early on but not knowing how to pronounce lots of words, which led to some embarrassing moments at college when I had to start talking more to my tutors...

I'm a do-er, not a reader when it comes to learning to do things. I can read a book about blogging or digital photography and have nothing at all register. Or I can just jump in and do it and figure it out.

Welcome back!

Visual learner here too. I seldom do audiobooks for that reason. Mayflower is back up the pile after being disparaged by some LTers a few weeks ago. Thanks Caro.

Hey--I've had A Glastonbury Romance on my shelf for years and years---can I join you?

Happy New Year, Lucy! (I'm a strong visual processor)

Certainly Deborah -- in fact that makes four interested people so I will buzz on over to Jim and tell him I've made a GR thread. I'll come back in a minute and post a link to it here

Have you read any other Powys?

My daughter just showed me this very amusing blog, "Why I'll never be an adult." It's the chart at the beginning mainly that is the greatest. Pretty much sums me up. here

No I haven't, but he's an author I've been interested in for a long time. Thanks for setting up the group read.

Hi. Welcome to 2011! I think I saw you finished Lavinia? What did you think? And hey, I started reading your blog novel - it's great! And good luck with A Glastonbury Romance - I am very interested in reading Powys, but I want to read Porius first and haven't gotten anywhere near it yet.

I'm so delighted you are joining us -- it's truly an adventure, and I mean that in the way I say to my daughter, it isn't a real adventure unless you've been uncomfortable, mystified and lost but then bowled over by beauty and strangeness.....

Thanks Janet - I have finished Lavinia but so distracted I haven't read through your 2010 thread that has your thoughts. And blast, I've unstarred you -- do you have your old threads handy? If you could send me the link I'd be much obliged!

Glad you're enjoying Hepzibah. I started it on the same day I joined LT last year. I'm a bit stunned at the sudden attention, for months my only devoted reader has been one of my brothers!

#38 Lucy, I think it was LauraBrook who posted a link to that blog a couple of months ago and a number of LTers were identifying with it but for the most part they seemed to be in their 20s and 30s. I was tempted to repost it but figured by your 50s it was embarrassing to still feel that way (which I do) so I'm relieved to see I'm not alone!

Lucy...

Your thread is off and running. 43 posts already! Happy New Year to you. I have your starred and will be sure to follow your interesting reads.

I think this is my last 2010 thread:

http://www.librarything.com/topic/103002

>43 phebj: Oh yeah. That's me at 66 except that I can't stay up that late even for the Internet!

just keeping current while I can! this thread is blooming!

Lucy, I do not know whether it will be helpful to you or not, but I found this on B&N's website: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/pubit-self-publish-ebook-publishing/379002433/?c...

Wow! Hi Lucy... I just asked if you were an author (cuz you write so well) and looky here!

Oh, I so hope this is the start of somethng BIG for you! There's lots of good advice to be had here. Don't take your foot off the accelerator... keep truckin'! We're with ya! :)

Yep -- I have that link from le beau Richard, plan to follow up on it asap. I'm still mulling over some organizational features of said opus, but it's very close.

Lucy, this is so exciting!

Hi Lucy, Looking forward to following your reading, discussions, and reviews. I will remember your definition of adventure from #41. It will come in handy with my own children....quite true.

Hey Sib, I'm having one of those days where my brain is all over the map. Yikes. But anyway, this is just for fun. I know that you know Mary McCarthy and I also know that you recently read that book about feminist literature (and I don't recall the title), and I thought you would like this from the Frances Kiernan biog of MM, Seeing Mary Plain:

It's about the short story published in the Partisan Review in about 1941 that really put her on the map, "The Man in the Brooks Brother's Suit," just several comments from women who were young when the story was published.

Another person in this biog calls this one of the best American short stories. "It should be in any anthology."

"Wouldn't you think," one voice at the lunch table said, "that even if her conscience hadn't kept her from going all the way, having a safety pin in her underpants would have?"

Another (woman) calls the story giddy and daring. It was tonic. It was the story that bright people--women especially--talked about and identified with. This was a feminist heroine who was strong and foolish; it was before feminist writing got bogged down in victimization. She was asinine but she wasn't weak.

Alfred Kazin (who seems to have no use at all for her): "There was a contempt for men in Mary's writing, which I thought was rather unpleasant." {snort!}

George Plimpton says he was 16 years old and at Exeter at the time "and it made almost as much an impression as Pearl Harbor." Ha.

Anyway, going for a walk to help settle the brain. Hope your day is good.

Laughing at "CowPow." Almost makes me want to join the GR; too bad I'm already overcommitted. However, I will be following you along on this thread. I hope it takes me on a journey wherein I am "bowled over by beauty and strangeness." Love your definition of Adventure!

Very cool and funny stuff, Becky, all of it! I don't think I've read that story, obviously we must dig it up somehow and pass it around.

I don't know if it's been anthologized (I'm guessing "not"), but I'll look it up. I wish she'd published it in The New Yorker because then it would be easy to find.

Just a quick stop to say hello and see what you are reading.. and how the new project is coming along.. !

It's your THINGAVERSARY, Lucy!!!

Happy Thingaversary to you! (Happy Thingaversary to me too. Meeting you here has been the highlight of my second LT year! Many thanks!!)

Thank you Peggy! Likewise. I am confident my second year will be as rewarding and fun as the first.

Pouring snow here (not in the forecast -- but there is always a 'lingering in the mountains' escape clause).

My project will be agonizingly slow Cath, because I am a tortoise. I will get there, but I do things very slowly in little bits.

My reading the last few days has been extremely choppy -- I'd hope to chew off 100 p a day of the sf book, but since I actually have some freelance work and all my other nefarious doings, I've run out of time to read. I did read some of both the sf and aGR, I'm not sure I read enough aGR to comment, but I might see if I can think up something.
(A Glastonbury Romance which I will be reading for months and months.)

Let me add my happy, happy to your Thingaversary. Last year was a great reading year. Here's to another great one in 2011!

Thanks Becky..... I think we're all off to a good start.

Happy Thingaversary Lucy! Curious about your 'nefarious doings'.

Heh heh. I'll keep you guessing. The truth would make you fall over snoring of course.

Oh and I meant to add to my feeble book remarks that I am very bogged down in The Mayflower King Philip's humiliation at the hands of the second generation of Pilgrims is excrutiating to listen to -- when I listen my mind makes vivid images of what is happening - (maybe that's why I remember so well what I hear) and I have felt literally kicked in the solar plexus more than once, plus so ashamed. I know I know I know, people do these things, but I'm struggling. I can't listen to more than a few minutes at a time. I don't even know if I can finish.

Happy Thingaversary, Lucy! It's been great getting to know you this year.

Happy Thingaversary! You do know you're now allowed to treat yourself with a new book? One for every year -- that's the 75er tradition.

>65 lauralkeet: Oh wait...Laura, you forgot!...it's one book **per Thingaversary celebrated**! So Lucy gets TWO books. (And, not coincidentally, *I* get *five* this August!)

Happy day, Lucy, you've really enriched the site by being here. *smooch*

Richard, I like your thinking. I've 'celebrated' with a gazillion people on their Thingaversaries. Does that count? Oh well, too bad, I still get to choose four books for mine coming up in March.

Happy Thingaversary, Lucy! Let us know what book(s) you buy.

Happy Thingaversary, Lucy! Enjoy!

>66 richardderus:: right Richard, but our dear Lucy has only been with us one short year. I know it seems as if we've known her forever! But one book it is -- and that's it !!!!!!

I get five in October, woo hoo ! Oh and I think I only bought 3 last year so maybe I should buy 6 this year ?

Happy Thingaversary!

OK so late yesterday evening a wee bit before my actual Thinga I ordered a history book: Robert the Bruce's Rivals: The Comyns 1212-1314 by somebody or other -- The Comyns are my husband's family (mostly spelled Cummin or Cummins today). Irresistible. Nice hardcover 'like new' for a pittance. Perfect. I was browsing somebody's library on LT and stumbled across it. I have so many books from Christmas that I am glutted, seriously, not only what I was given, but all the books I want to read that I cleverly gave to my spousal unit. (He wasn't all that fooled, but he'll read most of the ones he gave me, so it evens out!)

Thank you, dears.

Happy Thingaversary Lucy! Glutted with books?? Seriously? I didn't think that was possible.

What a party! Glad I was able to stop by :)

You have to finish The Mayflower, Lucy ... but I do agree that it's best taken in in little bits, rather than in big chunks because it does pack quite a wallop when you get the bits where the natives are cheated, lied to and brutally treated.

Thanks for the encouragement Caroline, I'm on disc 7 of I think 11 or 12.

I really amglutted, I went crazy with all those one cent books...... although it does add up as someone pointed out on their thread. It'll probably only last out the month, of course! And, just so you know there's no real danger of a cure of book mania, I just added four more books to my wishlist......

Thanks for the encouragement Caroline, I'm on disc 7 of I think 11 or 12.

I really amglutted, I went crazy with all those one cent books...... although it does add up as someone pointed out on their thread. It'll probably only last out the month, of course! And, just so you know there's no real danger of a cure of book mania, I just added four more books to my wishlist......

there's no real danger of a cure of book mania

agreed

If someone invents a cure for book mania, I am not taking it!

Belated Happy Thingaversary, Lucy.

Let me see, I thought I should report that I managed to listen to Mayflower this morning and finished disc 7 -- so four to go..... Unfortunately this disk ends on the verge, literally, of King Phillip's war, so the next disk at least will be an unrelieved bloodbath. I put the volume on very low and hummed a little when I couldn't stand it..... I could hear it, but at a sort of distance. Call me a wimp, I don't care. I am a wimp.

Otherwise, I've finished Ch 2 of the Mary Wesley bio -- what a different time! A world where you might leave a 14 year old at a pension in Brittany for four months alone, with no supervision. The mind boggles. I mean, even in those days (shadow of wwII) I think many would have thought this careless behavior, but it wasn't unheard of or unique as I've encountered it here and there.

I continue to like The Hidden Empire. There are these trees that are sentient and soak up info and communicate telepathically with chosen people (who then turn green and part plant in a way themselves) and they can instantly, quantum style, communicate with each other anywhere in the universe and are thus in great demand..... and some other good stuff. And I am wondering, of course, how it will all turn out.

I've finished Ch 1 of aGR but I reported on that over on the group thread.

#79: Call me a wimp, I don't care. I am a wimp.

Wimp! (so am I - I cannot listen to that kind of stuff)

Finished book #1, Hidden Empire nothing particularly distinguished but good fun. A decent twist at the end, though not entirely surprising, still an avenue to further plot convolutions. I won't review it because it is part of a series of 7 (groan) books. The next one is Forest of Stars and I think I can get it at the library* since this is where Hidden Empire came from.

Backstory for Genny? The original due date was October 10....... Our library doesn't do fines since they figured out it cost them more money in labor to collect them, but this being Vermont, you're supposed to decide for yourself if maybe you shouldn't donate something.

The Library Director is about to make her book order and I said I would ask youse folks for what you would think the 5 top new fiction 5 top new nf she should buy -- granted, she probably has most of them but she hadn't ever heard of the orange prize. I looked around for some sort of LT 'hot new books' list, but there wasn't one. But maybe there is something I don't know about??? Feel free to list up to ten, but our budget isn't that huge and there are lots of books she 'has' to buy, favorite authors, etc. I've 'adopted' Lois Bujold for my baby SF collection and will be giving the Vorkosigan books one by one...... Fun!

*I should add -- HE is from the other local library I use in Richmond...... not my little darling.

#81: What if you use the list of favorites from 2010 here: http://www.librarything.com/topic/104137#2412553

She should order Doc by Maria Doria Russell. I don't know exactly when it's coming out, but I know that it took all I possessed to keep myself from pre-ordering the thing. It sounds really good.

Thank you both -- I've copied that list and will print it out --

drive-by hug

Happy (belated) THINGAVERSARY, from Disney!
So late, I know, the party is over... but I wanted to send you happy wishes for another awesome year!

I totally understand the book glut thing... I'm beginning to wonder if I will ever have time to read again and I'm getting the shakes!

I am excited to see that Doc is coming, but not until May according to Amazon. I'm a great Mary Doria Russell fan too!
(I haven't looked at the favorites list, but I would add Blackout and All Clear because they should appeal to a wide range of readers.)

So this is from Wild Mary the bio of Mary Wesley. England, 1930's is the setting. She has gone to stay with the Baden-Powells (yes, he of the Boy Scouts):
"Lord Baden-Powell, the founder of Scouting, forbade all lipstick and nail varnish, so the girls cleaned their nails with a hairpin as the chauffeur drove them up from the station in the Rolls. Lady Baden-Powell's mother was often present. She loathed the Scout movement and loathed her son-in-law, and whenever she saw her daughter attired as a Guide 'she would let out a shriek worthy of Melba' and run to the end of the drive where she would lie down in the main road until she was carried home bodily. Mary noticed that the old lady enjoyed this performance very much. All went well until Mary was discovered in bed with one of the younger Baden-Powell boys, keeping warm, after which she left Pax Hill under a cloud."

Delicious!

Hi Sib, belated Happy New Year and happy Thingaversary. That Cowper Powys looks interesting. I'm sure I've got Wolf Solent around here somewhere....

#88 Great story about Lady B-P's mother!
#83 And I'm pleased to hear there is a new book by Mary Doria Russell - I loved the two I've read.

#81 Re library fines, our local system here seems quite sensible. You can take books out for a month at a time, renew them as often as you wish (online if you like) unless someone else has requested them. If you miss the renewal deadline you get charged a fine which is larger the longer the delay before renewing. If the resultant fine is small (under £3 total) you can continue to renew repeatedly, but if your fine total is larger, you can no longer renew until the fine is paid. Having forgotten to renew for nearly a month, I recently clocked up about £27 in fines, so had to go in to pay up. You can pay fines by putting coins in the slot of the automatic check in, which (along with automatic calculation of fines) takes most of the labour out of it. Once I'd cleared my balance, I was free to continue renewing my unread books. Some of my current crop I've had out since April 2010. I managed with a huge effort of will power not to take out any new ones this time!

Mary Wesley quote of the day: "God, when I think of the time I've wasted going to bed with Old Etonians."

I'm at the end of Part One, she's married Carol Swinfen, a toff, with whom she has an opaque relationship. It isn't quite as simple as that she married him because he is rich and titled and kind, but that is part of it. She is doing what she perceives as what she 'should' do, what her parents want.... a pattern she has established of skittering between conforming and rebelling. She makes me think of the Mitfords. Simultaneously rich and poor.

My other read Christopher Isherwood's The World in the Evening is quite absorbing. Action goes back and forth between 1940 and 1926, working forward. The protag. grew up on my turf, Main Line outside of Philadelphia in a quaker household, and thought I have no idea what Isherwood's connection to this is, he's got a lot of it right:
"Their men are tall, bony, big-shouldered, deliberate and healthily pale. They speak slowly and prudently, selecting their words. They seem quietly harassed. Their women are energetic and bright. They comb their hair back and twist it into a knot. They use no make-up. They wear flat heels, cheap sensible dresses, and in summer, straw hats which somehow resemble sunbonnets. Everybody knows everybody."

"What I do hate about the Quakers, though, is their lack of style. They don't know how to do things with an air. They're hopelessly tacky. They've no notion of elegance." This moves off into a discussion of High and Low Camp and the need for Quaker Camp which totally cracked me up!

I won't go into anything about the book as I am likely to write a review and it can wait.

hmmm makes me think that perhaps I am a Quaker ...

>91 sibylline:: I've been following your Wesley comments, trying to decide if this is a book to snatch up or avoid. I still can't decide. :-)

I'd wait, Tad. Wesley took a long time to mature and so I'm assuming the book will get more interesting as she actually begins writing...... Marnham does give insights into the origins of places and characters in her novels, but..... I haven't been walloped by great insights or any sort of felicitousness in how it is put together. I'm fascinated by Mary as a 'late bloomer' -- being one myself --. If I end up loving it I'll recommend you to buy it, if I don't I'll send it to you and you can decide for yourself, howzzat? It's not a book I would give my library as I don't think there is much Wesley interest there, though I could be doing them a terrible wrong!

>92 mckait: Kath -- I didn't see your comment. I'm almost embarrassed how well that describes me!

>91 sibylline: "What I do hate about the Quakers, though, is their lack of style. They don't know how to do things with an air. They're hopelessly tacky. They've no notion of elegance."

Well that's funny. I'm no Quaker but that seems to describe me. Hmmmm.....

Count me among those who have pre-ordered Doc.

>96 brenzi:: I'm not "officially" Quaker, but I do regularly attend a Quaker Meeting. I would not say the people there are tacky or lack style/elegance, but they generally lead simpler and less extravagant lifestyles ... no "airs," that's for sure. No one dresses up for meeting, and even the Christmas decorations were quite basic.

Isherwood is describing the old Phila quaker style -- my grandparents generation (born 1870's-80's) was the first to really struggle and quietly rebel (and leave the faith, sort of). And it was a tight community. There is an 'aunt' in this novel who would be contemporaneous with my great-aunts, would have, in fact, 'known' them, without a doubt. She is very recognizable to me. I'm sure there are still many 'born' Quakers, but it is different, I think, from what Isherwood is trying to catch the flavor of.

You might be fascinated by this novel, Laura. As someone familiar with Philadelphia and Quakers, it's a big part of the book. It's rare that anyone tackles them -- they aren't as much fun as, say, the Bostonians and New Englanders in general who are meaner and more eccentric and generally much more entertaining. You couldn't have a Quaker Ethan Frome, it just wouldn't happen. Everyone would sit around and discuss 'the problem' and come to some resolution and consensus about what to do about it. That's why Quaker camp is such a hoot of an idea!

I'm enjoying the discussions of your current reads, Lucy. I particularly liked the description of the Quaker men as "healthily pale."

>98 sibylline:: thanks Lucy! I agree "Quaker camp" is a hoot. We've only been involved with the Quaker community for a short time, but I see exactly what you described!

It's like a mega-oxymoron!

Just found your thread and thought I'd come over and say hi. The Chaos Walking series is great. I'll be interested to hear what you think of it once you've snagged it from your daughter.

Everyone would sit around and discuss 'the problem' and come to some resolution and consensus about what to do about it. That's why Quaker camp is such a hoot of an idea!

I laughed and laughed and laughed at this, and at Mary Wesley's wasting time sleeping with Old Etonians, and Lady Baden-Powell's mother's antics...you're a terrible influence! I'm supposed to be getting ready to take my guests on an outing to Sagamore Hill! Not sitting here giggling at your latest reads!

A very belated Happy Thingaversary Lucy, sorry I missed it.

Mary Wesley quote of the day: "God, when I think of the time I've wasted going to bed with Old Etonians."

Is it bad of me to want to know what (or possibly who) she wishes she'd done with the time instead?

>105 Eat_Read_Knit: hee hee, maybe just a wider pool of fellas?

All for your enjoyment, Richard!

I've finished Christopher Isherwood's The World in the Evening and I'm giving it **** stars. It's an uneven book but courageous and has some great moments as well as being a just plain good story, fun to read.
The review is long, if you want to read it just click on the title. (Actually I have to scramble over there and put it up and proof read it.....)

I don't know what I'll read next, maybe I'll stick with my Wesley bio and aGR for today.

Hi Lucy, just stumbling in to see what you're reading and er listening. I have Mayflower on my tipping tower of tomes but have not read it in its entirety. What are your feelings about the audio thus far?

Mayfloweris a very good book -- I mention at post 79 that as an audiobook I'm finding it somewhat excruciating, somehow listening to all the betrayals and counter-betrayals, and prejudices and bloodbaths is very difficult as my imagination is picturing it all full tilt. It would, I think, be easier to read. I am going to finish it, no matter how slowly because it is important to know the facts. The author does seem to know when to back off a little with a story or side tale that is less heartbreaking. But there is no avoiding what a sad story it is, what a bad beginning, how much cruelty and bad faith from people who were trying to start anew. I wouldn't mind it so much from people who weren't so full of high ideals. And I know they 'tried'. I'll be giving the book at least four stars, likely more, just because I am suffering doesn't mean anything bad about the book, just my own terminal wimpiness.

>108 sibylline:: this is about the Wesley bio, right? Not the camp Quakers?

"keeping warm" is a very Canadian euphemism. Don't imagine that's what she meant.

#106: Nice review, Lucy. Unfortunately, my local library does not have that one.

>105 Eat_Read_Knit:: Or did the old Etonians not appreciate the gesture as much as others may have done ;-)?

I've really enjoyed reading your thread Lucy- except for the parts when I've been kicking myself for not buying the Mary Wesley bio which I saw in a charity shop recently, wavered over and which had gone when I returned!

>109 tiffin: -- I'm answering the query at >107 Carmenere: about Mayflower. So far nothing violent or unbearable about Mary's life, frivolous, perhaps, but nothing I can't bear -- and I'm reading that, not listening. Here is an example of confusion due to reading too many books at once! I'll try to be more clear.

Claudia and I traded books several months ago and she sent me the Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society and that is what jumped out of the bookshelf into my hand this morning!

#108 Oops, thanks for reiterating your remarks. I was just gliding through and not reading every post. 4 stars?! Great! I'm not scared off but I will avoid trying to take a short cut with the audio because I see a difficult read can also sometimes be a difficult listen.

Quote for the day from The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society which everybody has read and found charming as do I:

"Reading good books ruins you for enjoying bad books."

I'm very resistant, but anyhow, I like that.

Meanwhile Mary Wesley is having a very wild life indeed during WW2 -- One of her frequently appearing characters is Calypso, who always fascinates me, and I'm beginning to see how many of the women represent facets of Mary herself.

That is a very delightful book -- the potato peel society, I mean...

Mary Wesley sounds like a hoot. Too bad about all those old Etonians; maybe she'd have preferred hanging out with... nah, never mind. But yes, limited experience tells me Eton does not equal imaginative/creative.

I've got some Mary Wesley books sitting and awaiting my attention. Shall have to reward their patience shortly, I think.

You are in for such a treat Suzanne. She's a bit like Muriel Spark, but less cryptic and spare, and it's just jolly good dark humorous/serious stuff!

Today's quote is also from Guernsey. Does this resonate with anyone?

Mr. Handsome has proposed and Juliet is waffling and Mr H. loses his temper: 'he began shouting..... about women who care more about a passel of strangers than men who are right in front of them....' Hmmmm , where have I heard that? Actually, my family is very sweet about it, they are relieved I've found fellow bookworms, I think.

Yes but she was right to ignore Mr. H. in this case, wasn't she!

Yes, indeedy.

Hi Lucy, caught up with you...for now. I hope Mayflower is getting better for you. I had the most trouble with digging up the graves of the Native Americans. I read it rather than listening to it which did make it a bit easier to take.

I'm with your family in being relieved to find some fellow bookworms. I like not having to apologize about the amount and types of reading that I do! I also think I would fit in well with the Quakers. ;-)

Frankly, it's not getting easier, but I am slogging on. I think I mentioned I put the volume on low, and that helps. I can hear it, but only barely. I've made it to disk 9 (of 11) and I am hoping that 11 is just a shorty, the last one often is..... basically I think I have about two hours of listening left. Oh, my next audio book has to be light-hearted! I've earned it.

Oh, it's not the need to apologize about the time I spend reading; it's feeling so self-conscious about it! Especially last year, when I actually kept track of the # of books for the first time ever...

Without other bookworms, I would probably be in a loony bin.

Unless this, of course, is a very very clever loony bin! If so it's like the one in the King of Hearts and I'm happy to live here!

Oops, I got so excited writing Suzanne that I forgot to report I finished The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society. I greatly enjoyed it, and although I do recommend it as a 'lightish' read, it was a balancing act to describe the brutal hardships of WWII (occupation) on the island with the romantic love story/writer finding herself and place sort of plot. Not always an entirely comfortable combination but it held together. ***3/4 -- not more I'm afraid, can't quite choke out a 4.

I still am not convinced that I should read this Potato book, but I'm glad you found it a decent read nonetheless!

Glad you enjoyed the "Guernsey" book, Lucy. I resisted reading this book for so long - because I thought the title was ridiculous! But when I finally did pick it up it hit me just right and I loved it. It was, as you say, a lightish read - also introduced me to one more view of WW II of which I was unaware.

I can handle WW II more easily in pieces. Someday, all the pieces may come together ... and I will be able to form some kind of coherent mental map of just what it was all about.

I'm gonna add a couple of the books you have been reading to my WL -
The World in the Evening and the bio of Mary Wesley...
you always make books sound so interesting! :) Or maybe you always seem to make great choices. ;)
Enjoy the snow! I am!

The Wesley bio is really heating up and getting interesting, not so much the writing which continues to be workmanlike. The story is what I mean. First of all, Wesley, not that old yet, it's just after the war so she's only in her mi-late 30's, is now seriously starting to work at being a writer -- in 1946! She doesn't publish for another 30 plus years!!!! This is the part of her life I want to know about, what held her back, what kept her going, so I hope Marnham comes through for me. The other 'interest' is simply 'story' the first wife of Mary's second husband turned into an insane stalker and it's just one of those jaw-gaping-in-
The Wesley bio is really heating up and getting interesting, not so much the writing which continues to be workmanlike. The story is what I mean. First of all, Wesley, not that old yet, it's just after the war so she's only in her mi-late 30's, is now seriously starting to work at being a writer -- in 1946! She doesn't publish for another 30 plus years!!!! This is the part of her life I want to know about, what held her back, what kept her going, so I hope Marnham comes through for me. The other 'interest' is simply 'story' the first wife of Mary's second husband turned into an insane stalker and it's just one of those jaw-gaping-in-disbelief tales. Nowadays a person like that would be dealt with a lot more efficiently, but back then there weren't really provisions, especially not for the upper crust!

Beware of me making books sound interesting Claudia, my friend!

In other reading news, I randomly picked out a Charles Stross book of short stories (hard sf) called Toast. Again, it jumped out at me. I've read the first one and it's a lot of fun.

I think of "Guernsey" (damned if I'll type out that whole title) as a rice pudding of a book. It's warm and fuzzy; a great comfort read, even when it deals with depressing subjects, as the focus is on the fundamental things that we all want to believe are true of people and our relationships with each other. How many of us would not want to find our version of happiness in the way the narrator does?? Find just the right place, people, projects, etc. to snap our lives into focus?? I'm not saying it's real, or anything like that -- but it's food for warm & fuzzy daydreams.

Wow, what a luxury to work at being a writer for 30 years before publishing... *eyes roll* I'd be starving in the streets LONG before year 1 was up!

Hi Lucy,
I've taken the plunge this year and joined the 75 books challenge, just so we can have more LibThing talk when next we breakfast at the Wicked, no mater what spouses and off-spring may say or how often they roll their eyes.
Hope winter is treating you well in the far North.
Stephen

TK! Welcome! This is truly a bit of unlooked for major excitement. Now I have to go find your thread and see what you are reading.

It snowed here ALL DAY and I wore myself out snowshoeing but it was worth it.

Mary Wesley's life is quite amazing -- they never had a bean, or at least, things never stayed beanish for long -- it wasn't a luxury, in fact, I think in the end she was too busy cooking cleaning, teaching English to foreign students living in the house (how they made money) until she was widowed and kids grown ..... Husband #2 was one of those types I think you had to know to understand why anyone would choose them and then continue to love them faithfully. They have both converted to Catholicism in the last chapter or so; she had been contemplating that a long time, most of her life, really.

I've finished up biography Wild Mary: A life of Mary Wesley by Patrick Marnham which, for some reason I had a need to tear through quickly. I wasn't reading it for the usual reasons, that is, simply curious about the period or the life as a whole. I was reading as a writer and a woman, who herself hasn't for one reason and another, moved very swiftly, and found herself wondering very much "How the heck did this happen?" Namely, how does it happen that a person only gets around to writing and publishing ten books between the ages of 70 and 81, and damned excellent books to boot? I found my answer. One part of it is that she was busy. With lovers, with children, with trying intra-family relationships that took up a lot of bandwidth, with moving constantly, and with trying to make a living however she could. She also lacked discipline entirely, due to having had minimal schooling, and I think she had to learn it inch by inch. Mary literally had no center to her life, no stable core of either people or places that she could rely on to welcome her, to call home. She, in fact, labored mightily to become a center herself, for her 3 boys and her second husband, Eric Siepman, whom she adored although his charms are opaque at this distance.
Towards the end of the biography Marnham lists Mary's recurring 'themes' in a footnote: "The four major themes in her ten novels were ambiguity in personal identity, the dysfunctional family, marital rape and the affirmation of illegitimacy. Among other themes that appear repeatedly are incest, revenge, suicide by drowning, parental interference, the everlasting ideal house, parental snobbery or racism, and the elderly seducer." A footnote!
Which leads me to my thoughts about not Mary Wesley's life but Patrick Marnham's biography of her. It is an 'official' one; he had access to papers and permission from the family although it doesn't seem to me he held back a lot of messy details (she wrote an autobiography that appears to still exist, never published, that he clearly read, but is even now, maybe too close to the bone for friends and family still living). All the information you could want is presented in a straightforward manner, but if Mary Wesley's life weren't so extremely lively it would show more, I think, that the biography has a flat tone, a lack of insight into or sensitivity or even enthusiasm for Mary, the personality. The list of themes in a footnote sums up exactly everything I found flat about the work itself. He lets Mary do all the work, so to speak, which is exactly what people always did, it is only her adventures and energy that keep the book absorbing.
There are also several places where Marnham repeats something he wrote in an earlier chapter word for word, although to be sure, he is approaching whatever it is from a slightly different angle. It happened enough that it felt like filler.
One last comment, Marnham doesn't go anywhere near the topic so dear to my mind, "Why so late?" But the clues are there. Besides the basic chaos she lived in, her second husband Eric, also a writer, had serious mood problems and for a variety of reasons never succeeded in his career; there is little doubt in my mind that Mary held herself back, consciously or unconsciously, for his sake. I don't think that succeeding where he didn't was acceptable to her. To her, mind you, I am not judging Eric. This issue is an example of a topic that a braver biographer would explore. In any event, I bring this up as an example of what I found to be 'missing': the answer to my question, "How did this happen?" By seventy the degree of pent-up ideas was like a raging torrent, once the dam was opened, there was no stopping it until she was done. Fortunately for us, she was robust and energetic enough to do the work so late in life. A guarded recommendation, since there is nothing better. Also, it is important to keep in mind I had an agenda and expectiations, others might truly enjoy reading about her life, which is of itself, absorbing. ***1/2.

I confess I've never heard of Mary Wesley. Would you suggest a first book to read?

Lucy,
I know you've warned me about getting caught up in your reviews - and maybe it is your writing that is so intriguing to me... you have an amazing amount of insight and ask essential, important questions. BUT - even with a guarded rec. from you - I want to read this book. Added to my whirlpool of desire! Can't help myself.

the biography has a flat tone, a lack of insight into or sensitivity or even enthusiasm for Mary

Interesting thoughts about Mary Wesley, Sib. One of the best "worst" biographies I've ever come across as an example of a biographer who didn't like or have one bit of sympathetic understanding for his subject was E. Stanley Godbold's Ellen Glasgow and the Woman Within. Evidently he turned a PhD dissertation into a biography, but "why" he wrote his dissertation on Glasgow, who knows? Well, I have a theory, but it's not important. I wonder why Patrick Marnham chose Mary Wesley for his subject.

I guess along with your question, "Why so late," I would also wonder how she came to have the confidence in herself that she could do it--become a published author at the age of 70 or whatever she was. Did she actually start writing this stuff at the age of 70, or did she have some of this tucked away in a drawer somewhere? Anywho, interesting.

She was actually writing from her mid-thirties onward, more seriously than she would admit, a novel and other bits and pieces and children's books, and this racy memoir in her mid-forties, so she was definitely writing and thinking hard. As for why Marnham chose her, I wish biographers always explained that right away!

Glad to hear from you Becky, I am keeping tabs on what you are reading..... just so you know.

Thank you Claudia, as I'm solitary by nature and working in a somewhat isolated environment (I admit, partly of my own making), your words mean a great deal to me. It's a decent bio, ***1/2 is a pretty good rating from me.

I'm another person with a hefty dose of Quaker ancestry (PA, MD, VA)... I don't seem to read the same sorts of books that you do, and I have so many books in the queue already that I don't see stepping too far outside my current boundaries, but I have your thread starred because your commentary and reviews are fantastic and I am intrigued by the glimpse into other worlds even if I don't have the inclination to explore them.

I agree with Claudia. Your review was so interesting it makes me want to read about Wesley. I think I'll look for the book in the library. Everything you've mentioned about Mary sounds fascinating.

>132 ffortsa: I would begin with The Camomile Lawn -- her first one, Jumping the Queue is very dark, none of the others are quite that bleak. Apparently there is a BBC production of it too which I would be curious to see.

All this chatter about Mary and I've forgotten to say my next NF book is The Lost City of Z by David Grann another of my xmas books!

I've seen the BBC production of Camomile Lawn - which I enjoyed - but not read the book, or any others by Wesley. Another omission to rectify!

Can I add my appreciation for your reviews and ongoing commentary - I like the kind of questions you ask and I love seeing the process of your developing reactions while your reading is in progress.

>136 qebo:,7,9 thank you all. Genny I was reading your thread while you were posting on mine!

Lucy, that is a wonderful review! Insightful and well-written as always!!! I don't think I'm tempted by the biography, but I do have Mary in my queue for reading soon. (Whether she'll jump it, I couldn't say.) AND I caught the tail-end of an NPR feature on the sophisticated culture in the Amazon sometime this week. I'll be waiting eagerly again to see what you think of *Z*!

Congratulations on finishing Wild Mary - sounds like it was quite a read. Now I know all about her, so don't have to read it myself :) Not sure I want to read any of her books, though - they sound so dark - not that I avoid all things dark in favor of light and fluffy, just, well, themes of marital rape, incest, suicide, dysfunction, probably not what I need right now! But thanks for the insights into someone I wouldn't have known about otherwise.

Oh -- don't let that list stop you! One thing I neglected to say is how funny her books are even while dark. She is very sharp, very witty. You don't want to miss out on that!

Despite your reservations, you make the book sound VERY fascinating... I admit I'm intrigued by the same question you are and I agree about the idea of a "torrent" of ideas/personalities that reach such a critical mass that they can't be held back any longer. Even acknowledging you want to be a writer can be hard. But I suppose if you are ferocious/tenacious enough, you will end up at least making the effort.

Your last two books sound so good Lucy - more for the Giant Freaking Wishlist! Am particularly curious about the Isherwood book - if for no other reason than to compare the PA Quakers to my grandfather - as stiff-necked a MA Quaker as there ever was. Grandpa was horrified when Granny moved heaven and earth to make the family go to the Congregational church. As far as he was concerned the Congregationalists were only a hair away from being Roman Catholics! It was not one of Granny's better ideas.

He sounds like a 'country' Quaker -- they were VERY conservative. I am sure there are still some pockets of them tucked away here and there. My family ended up all 'Hicksites' -- that is, more people oriented and up to their eyeballs in social reform -- more like Aunt Sarah in this novel. It's pretty funny to think of Congregationalists that way!!!!! But I do think some of old Quakers just felt so private about their inner spiritual lives!

Wild Mary sounds like one I can avoid, thank goodness.. but The World in the Evening is calling out for me to add it to my wish list..

Let me see, I'm closing in on finishing the Charles Stross short stories in Toast (as in "You're toast, dude.") Pretty much all the stories are a peek into the many ways we humans might unthinkingly use technology to do ourselves out of existence...... lots of fun, and including a coffee armageddon one that is delicious for those of us who are addicts.....

I've started The Lost City of Z and I believe it will be a page turner -- it has the well put together feeling already.

No aGR for a couple of days while I let others catch up, but sometime today or tomorrow I'll get back into it so I don't lose the thread.

Earlier it was briefly sunny but now the clouds are rolling in and there are flakes here and there, I believe it might snow; why am I not surprised?

Finished Toast. As I said above, Stross likes to explore the consequences of thoughtlessly using technology and he is a clever and witty plotter and writer. I read sf mostly for fun so I am loathe to put a lot of effort into reviewing it. If you like hard sf you'll like it. If you really hate reading pumped up-goofy-techno-computer-geek jargon you'll hate it. I get a kick out of letting it all wash over my head.

Here's a fun quote from a story called "Ship of Fools" filled with computer programmers fleeing the possible effects of Y2K in a cruise ship (the story was written ahead of its time in the early 90's: "Boredom: Knowing that the end of the world is due to happen in less than eight-one thousand seconds, but being unable to hurry it along, impede it, or even ignore it and do something else in the meantime."

I'll probably concentrate on Z and aGR the rest of today and won't choose a new 'fun' fiction until sometime tomorrow.

Hi Lucy, I had fun going through your thread today. Lots of great information on book publication. Best wishes to you on that front.

I listened to Mayflower in November and understand your...pain. There were long stretches that I struggled with but was glad that I finished it (in more ways than one). I usually back up to listen again to whatever I may have missed when I listen in the car, but I didn't with this one. I could never have finished it in print; I'm also one who prefers to listen to non-fiction.

Hi Lucy, enjoyed your review of Wild Mary:A Life of Mary Wesley. I knew nothing about her but if you say dark funny.....Maybe I'll dip into The Camomile Lawn. As far as your question as to why she waited so long to write I had a similar experience not long ago when I reread Harriet Doerr's Stones for Ibarra. She finally got her degree from Stanford in 1967 and went on to win the National Book Award in 1973! Then she only produced two more books before her death. Seems like such a waste of a fabulous talent.

I'll be interested in your take on The Lost City of Z, which I read a few months ago. Fawcett was a very.....interesting......explorer. I'll wait to see what you think.

I liked Z ... I am leery of Mayflower, but will probably read it. The World in the Evening , too.. why is that one calling out to me anyway?

I enjoyed The Lost City of Z. I look forward to your thoughts on it, Lucy.

ooo Toast sounds like fun read... I may get it out of the library just for the coffee story - as a coffee addict my interest is piqued!

>151 brenzi: Bonnie - I think you will fall for Mary Wesley -- when I discovered her in the 80's I didn't at first realize she was JUST being published and I was frantic to read more, assuming, since she was older that somehow they were rediscovered, re-issued novels..... I was so surprised and awed when I realized I was finding them as they actually were being written and coming out. I loved Stones for Ibarra. Were the next two novels as good? I haven't read them, but I should?

So much depends, with a book like The Lost City of Z on how the writer weaves the threads of the story together and Grann is doing such a good job, I think. I am piqued by the .... interesting.... re Fawcett -- so far he seems like your usual Victorian explorer nut-case, not too deviant, but perhaps that is not what you meant?

>152 mckait: I hope it isn't too hard to find!

>154 kiwiflowa: Toast is fun -- Stross is so concerned that the stories are already (in fifteen years) hopelessly dated that he doesn't stop to think that those of us who lived through Y2K etc, still get the context totally, even if things turned out all right...... it made me realize how much he treasures being ahead of the curve!

I think Helen Humphries The Lost Garden is next in my fiction queue but I probably won't start it until tomorrow, depends on where I get to in aGR and Z.

Okay so I went and did my best seller list:

NYT Best Sellers 1954

1. MARY ANNE Daphne du Maurier
2. NOT AS A STRANGER Morton Thompson
3. SWEET THURSDAY John Steinbeck
4. THE ROYAL BOX Frances Parkinson Keyes
5. NEVER VICTORIOUSNEVER DEFEATED, Taylor Caldwell
6. THE DOLLMAKER Harriette Arnow
7. A TIME TO LOVE AND A TIME TO DIE Erich Maria Remarque
8. A WREATH FOR THE ENEMY Pamela Frankau
9. BLESS THIS HOUSE Norah Lofts
10. AWAY ALL BOATS Kenneth Dodson
11. THE SONG OF RUTH Frank G. Slaughter
12. MR. HOBBS' VACATION Edward Streeter
13. DON CAMILLO'S DILEMMA Giovanni Guareschi
14. THE TUNNEL OF LOVEPeter De Vries
15. PICTURES FROM AN INSTITUTION Randall Jarrell
16. THE BAD SEEDWilliam March
Non-Fiction
1.THE POWER OF POSITIVE THINKINGNorman Vincent Peale
2. BUT WE WERE BORN FREE Elmer Holmes Davis
3. I'LL CRY TOMORROW Lillian Roth
4. THE MIND ALIVE Harry Allen Overstreet and Bonaro W. Overstreet
5. A CHILD OF THE CENTURY Ben Hecht
6. MINUTES OF THE LAST MEETING Gene Fowler
7. THE REASON WHY Cecil Woodham-Smith
8. FORTY PLUS AND FANCY FREE Emily Kimbrough
9. CELL 2455 DEATH ROW Caryl Chessman
10. TNT: THE POWER WITHIN YOU Claude M. and Harold Sherman Bristol
11. MADAME DE POMPADOUR Nancy Mitford
12. SECOND TREE FROM THE CORNER E.B. White
13. ANIMALS, MEN AND MYTHS, Richard Lewinsohn
14. OF WHALES AND MEN R .B. Robertson
15. A STILLNESS AT APPOMATTOX Bruce Catton
16. JOURNEY TO THE FAR AMAZON Alain Gheerbrant

Well, this seems a funny list - books by authors I greatly like, but titles I haven't read -- Mary Anne and Sweet Thursday and quite a few like Lofts and Slaughter and Keyes, who seem to me to be fairly passe. I remember reading De Vries for a bit and I think I enjoyed him. I'm happy to see Nancy Mitford and Bruce Catton and E.B. White here -- and I remember seeing the Lewinsohn, Robertson and Gheerbrant on my parents' shelves. I think I leafed through all of those without really reading them..... the last book is interesting as I am presently reading another adventure book about getting into big trouble in the Amazon! Obviously a perennial favorite. I've touchstoned ones that I've read....

I read Mary Anne last year, Lucy. You haven't missed anything. Rebecca, it ain't. For me, it falls into the 'Meh' category.

...and what's up with the touchstones? Mary Anne should not take us to Anne of Green Gables. Sometimes I think LT is possessed.

I recognize a lot of names, and I have to agree that many of them are hopelessly dated. On the other hand, I'm looking forward to the Pamela Frankau, and the Don Camillo stories remain charming. We've never gotten away from *The Power of +* and I at least own The Reason Why, picked up at a library sale, whether I ever get to it or not. Oh! And Emily Kimbrough is a sort of cult favorite although I've read and reread only Our Hearts were Young and Gay.

Little on there that I recognize, though of course some author names I know well and others I've at least heard of. Best sellers lists are a funny mix of the occasional gem and many more ephemeral titles, aren't they. I wonder how accurately we could predict from today's list which ones will stand the test of time and will still being read and appreciated 50 or so years from now...

Interesting indeed to think about. I don't know what's on the best seller list right now, but it almost makes me want to look -- it seems as though somewhere from 3-6 total of the f and nf last a good long time, although even a faded name will have an echo for awhile. Emily is a cult fave, eh, so what are the books about?

I recognize 4 or 5 books on your birthday list, but 13 of the authors. Writing can be a long, long career!

My list, alas, is from before the weekly list was captured, and I'm not impressed with the year's best sellers at all. Oh well. No obligation to like what people were writing when I was born, lo these many years ago.

E. Kimbrough wrote Our Hearts Were Young and Gay with Cornelia Otis Skinner. It's the story of their first trip to Europe and is simply funny as all get-out. One of them had measles, I think, when they set out, so the first problem was to get her on the boat. Maybe she's not actually a cult favorite, but if she were, I'd join.

The Nancy Mitford bio of Madame de Pompadour is one I'd recommend; she also wrote a lively and interesting bio of Frederick the Great. The du Maurier is not one of her best; Norah Lofts' books are being reissued (by Sourcebooks, I think); I wouldn't consider them dated, or at any rate, no more dated than Plaidy (her rough contemporary.)

I've read all those Mitford bios -- they are a treat, aren't they?

The only one on your list that I have read, Lucy, is the Caryl Chessman book.

I went and looked at the Mitford list and I have to correct myself -- I'm sure I haven't read Voltaire in Love -- maybe I have, but I don't remember anything at all about it..... I'm surprised I haven't read it, I love Voltaire, but...... it just doesn't ring any bells, so I've heaved it into the well of someday.....

In other news, I finished up the very well knitted and presented and written The Lost City of Z by David Gann who writes, why am I not surprised, for the New Yorker. The tradition at the New Yorker of seamless and entirely accessible prose in their non-fiction pieces has been surpassed by no one, and Z is no exception. Of course, it helps to pick a great story to tell, but that, in fact, is part of the editorial process. In short if you like a REAL adventure book, complete with truly stomach-churning descriptions of how it felt pre-antibiotics, effective pain-killers, GPS, if you have a weakness for the 'lost civilizations' myths, or if the strangeness of the latter day English Gentleman fascinates you, then you will read Z the way I did, a bit insatiably. Gann, while researching Percy Fawcett (the explorer who developed the notion of Z and who disappeared in the Amazon in 1924 with his son and his son's best friend) was bitten by the Fawcett bug and the question of what the heck happened to him, for he truly had appeared to be, up to this last trip, as indestructible as Robocop and he was so convinced about his idea of a lost civilization that he was almost irresistible. I kept saying, "oh I'll just read one more chapter and then I'll...." but I would find myself well into the next chapter without knowing quite how. I'm giving it a ***** as an exemplar of near-perfect of the type of book it is and because I couldn't stop reading it, which means I was loving it.

A last word, recent archaeological work by Michael Heckenberger is confirming the presence of large populations living in the area in a network of small cities connected by huge roads, irrigation canals, in short a complex and sophisticated culture of which tiny remnants can be found in some of the remaining tribes. As for what became of Fawcett; you'll have to find that out for yourselves.

Ah the English, Percy on himself, "Perhaps it was all for the best that my childhood.... was so devoid of parental affection that it turned me in upon myself."

A member of the Royal Geographical Society writes on explorers: "Explorers are not, perhaps, the most promising people with whom to build a society. Indeed, some might say that explorers become explorers precisely because they have a streak of unsociability and a need to remove themselves at regular intervals as far as possible from their fellow men."

Glad you enjoyed The Lost City of Z, Lucy!

How was the Chessman, Stasia?

To tell you the truth, Lucy, it has been so long ago that I read it - I was a teenager, I do not remember much.

I'd never heard of Fawcett or the Lost City of Z - but I love those books that won't let you stop reading them! And I love the quote about Percy's childhood...

It resonated extra, Genny, as I just saw "The King's Speech" this weekend -- those Victorian mums and dads of the upper crust were a starchy bunch indeed!

Ah yes, Stasia, how well I know that feeling.....

The six Mitford sisters: "Diana the Fascist, Jessica the Communist, Unity the Hitler-lover; Nancy the Novelist; Deborah the Duchess and Pamela the unobtrusive poultry connoisseur".

Recommended: The Mitfords: Letters Between Six Sisters, all 800+ pages. Heh.

#172 - I'm hoping to see that soon. Was due to see a preview at my local arts cinema but was too tired to go a couple of weeks back...

I've got The Lost City of Z, waiting to be read sometime this year. I really enjoyed his book of shorter pieces about weird things last year, The Devil and Sherlock Holmes. He's an excellent writer.

I really want to read The Lost City of Z - even more now that I've read your thoughts! :)

Got me again, Lucy! Could you slow down, just a bit??? :}

The Lost City of Z sounds great, Lucy. I remember Bonnie recommending it highly too so it's already on my WL. I read Fordlandia last year, which took place around the same time as The Lost City of Z, so I've been waiting to get back to the same type of book but this sounds much better. It took me more than a month to get through Fordlandia.

We saw "The King's Speech" this weekend as well. I kept thinking of your description of all the men being "healthily pale" in one of your other recent reads while I was watching that movie.

Hangs head -- I'm sorry Claudia! I'll try to hate something soon! I've been on a roll. This morning it was -15 so...... hard to think of setting even a toe outside which leads to a lot of reading time.... I have been out now, because it is sunny and not a breath of wind, but not for very long.

Exactly, Pat, Colin Firth/George VI certainly embodied what Isherwood was thinking of! Interestingly Edward was not 'healthily pale' -- he was a bit sallow and dissolute-looking, eh, done with subtlety but firmness. What did you think of Wallis? I haven't read a whole lot of stuff about royals, but she seemed incredibly well done.

I'll have to check out Fordlandia which I keep hearing about but which never quite pierced my consciousness until this minute....

>173 labwriter: Becky, whoops, I missed this post first time around. I went through a Mitford phase, latish 70's, but either that book wasn't out yet or I missed it ..... I'd have to be in a renewed Mitford obsessive fit to tackle those! They were a formidable bunch of women.

Is the book the Lost City of Z an expansion on the New Yorker writing or a compendium? If it's in the New Yorker, I have it already - along with 6 years of New Yorkers waiting to be read or reread. If not, I may have to look for the book.

Nope, The Lost City of Z is a new work on a single subject, the Amazonian explorations of Percy Fawcett. His other book, The Devil and Sherlock Holmes is a collection of his (mostly) New Yorker articles. Wikipedia has a nice table that gives the original publication date in his essays in The Devil and Sherlock Holmes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil_and_Sherlock_Holmes

By the way, The Lost City of Z is really good. One of the best of the yer for me last year.

ok you convinced me Z has moved up the wish list and on to the 2011 list :)

I must have read a review of the book, then. I was sure there was something in the magazine, though.

#179 Lucy, I was amazed at how similar the actress playing Wallis looked compared to the real person. I don't know much about the royals either but whoever the actress was she seemed made for this role. Now they need to make a movie about Wallis Simpson and have her star in it.

As far as Fordlandia is concerned, it was a book I loved in the beginning before the action moved to the Amazon. Once it did, I got frustrated with all the management changes and lack of progress. To me, it would have made a better article, or series of articles, then a full length book.

Glad you loved it too Tad --

>184 ffortsa:-- I feel as though there might have been a shortish article from the last part of the book about Michael Heckenberger -- I'm only six months behind and I've been reading it fairly faithfully for more decades than I want to admit. However, that said, I also read some Science magazines and maybe I read about Heckenberger there. Anyway, I was somehow or other familiar with him and his work. I have no idea how or why! And I had no idea how it connected with Fawcett because I knew nothing about Fawcett until last week!

In any case...... Yes, a movie about Wallis with her in it, not a bad idea at all. Although how one could make her even remotely sympathetic, I I mean, enough to care..... a challenge.

Hi Lucy

Sorry to be so far behind on your thread.

Regarding message 179. I hope to see this movie soon. Colin Firth is one of my favorite actors.

No worries! -- I know you've been very much under the weather! I am very happy to see you prowling around the threads.

Let me see, what have I to report today? I've made headway in A Glastonbury Romance but what I am most pleased with myself about is that I successfully posted a gorgeous photo of the Abbeyt ruins on the aGR thread. I'm loving the book.

I'm most of the way through the very short novel by Helen Humphries The Lost Garden. It's odd because you have the essence of The Secret Garden -- a plain misfit finding a hidden garden no one knows about -- I suppose it is an archetype of some kind, Eden, duh. It's a good book, very dark, but very thoughtful. Not the best accompaniment, though, to JCP. Not that they are similar, just both require focus to be worth it.

I also made a breakthrough today, pulling a book out of my TBR shelf and admitting I will never ever read it, that I feel a surge of panicky boredom and guilt whenever I think about reading it. It was a gift, a book about driving and drivers called Traffic -- I did read the first chapter, and thought, I know this already, then I leafed through it, and felt weary at all the pages I'd have to read to get to claim it as a book I've read. So. Out with it.

Finally I am still miserably plodding through Mayflower. I hate Captain Moseley more than I can say.

Congratulations on NOT reading that book! And remind us again why you are plodding through Mayflower exactly??

Is it the person/story you hate, or the book/author? I haven't read this yet, but plan to (well, it is occupying bookshelf space...) and Philbrick is usually a good raconteur...

I don't hate the book per se and I have nothing but admiration for Philbrick. It is an appalling story in the step-by-step details of the betrayals, self-serving rationales, cruelties that the pilgrims and the next two generations Philbrick follows, use self-servingly to more or less eradicate the native american in the north east. It's nothing new, of course, it's been done over and over, and I know most of this in general outline, but the details are so relentlessly and unremittingly bloody and shameful. I think it would be a million times easier to read than listen to -- probably what I should do in fact, is take the audio book back and find the book book and finish it that way. In fact, yes, that is what I will do. Honestly, I think it is a 'must' read for anyone serious about american history, it's appalling but it is what happened. I'll be giving the book very high marks despite hating the experience.

Finished the Helen Humphries The Lost Garden Gorgeous book in every way. I have so much trouble giving contemporary fiction five stars.... but it if any book earns it, it is this one. It is all of a piece, seemless, right. I suspect there are a million reviews and I don't want to analyze it, just want to savor it. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!!!!

In other reading news, I'm going to try Jeremy Bernstein's Quantum Leaps which has been loitering enticingly on my tbr shelf for a couple of years.

Lucy, I'm so glad you liked The Lost Garden. I think Helen Humphreys is one of the best writers working today. In fact, I've been trying to write something halfway objective about her for the last fifteen minutes and all I can come up with is gushy besotted-fan praise. Virtually everything she's written is on a level with The Lost Garden so do have a look at Afterimage, Coventry The Frozen Thames and Leaving Earth. All are sublime!
S, aka TK

Ah Lucy glad I got over here before The Lost City of Z...er...got lost in the shuffle. I enjoyed it too. Fawcett really rubbed me the wrong way though. I know he was typical of just about any explorer but talk about selfish, his wife and family practically starved so that he could follow his quest and I do mean more than once. But I know these guys don't think the way the rest of us do but he seemed so totally oblivious of anyone else or anyone else's welfare.

Lucy, The Lost Garden sounds great and it's available on PBS so now all I have to do is post something that someone else wants in order to get it. I've never read anything by Humphreys but I know I have The Frozen Thames on my WL from a prior LT recommendation.

The Frozen Thames looks interesting; I was able to get Coventry on my Kindle for only $1.91!!

Hi Lucy, I absolutely loved both Coventry and The Frozen Thames. And thanks to you, I just put The Lost Garden on ILL. I'm sure I'll love it, too!

>197 Chatterbox: Suz, I was able to get it for the same price on my Nook. It'll make a good reread for me.

Hi! I'm getting a new project started to get together great recommendations for books by themes. I've called it Books By Themes (BBT) and your suggestions are most welcome! Here's the link.

I never heard of Helen Humphreys before, but these books look good, so I'll be checking her out, thanks.

uh oh.. another good author to explore. I have added the Humphrey books mentioned to my list. I hope to get to at least one of them someday..The Lost Garden is likely the one I would try first, it sounds wonderful!

eta

but! Coventry is available for nook too, so?

I've added The Lost Garden to my wishlist, but went ahead and got Coventry for my Kindle, thanks for mentioning it Chatterbox.

Hi Lucy!
You did it again! I'm becoming more afraid of you than Stasia!
I loved The Frozen Thames and I believe I have added Coventry to my WL already. It is good to know that all her books are so delicious. Sometimes an author writes a good book - and that's it. Apparently Helen Humphreys is able to sustain the magic. :)

194 - TK uh oh, that means I have three more Humphries to track down, Coventry, Afterimage and Leaving Earth. I got LG and Frozen Thames for xmas.....

195 Bonnie, I am in total agreement that Fawcett was rather beastly, but he was brought up to be that way, which is no defense really, except that he was a lot better than many of them, more respectful than most of the native people and determined to use non-violent means among them. It amazes me really that his wife Nina, seems to have had complete faith in him, even to encouraging him and relinquishing her son to go off with him. To F's credit he did try very hard to make sure men who came with him understood how it was to be -- that he meant to be ruthless, that they had to be tough. Anyway, the ***** stars are really for the book itself, the job Grann did putting it all together. Any book I can't stop reading tends to get a fiver, regardless of what it is about!!!!

I've started Quantum Leaps and I know I'm going to like it. I tortured myself a couple of years ago, just getting on the outskirts of 'getting' relativity, and I've been battering away moth at the lamp at the quantum universe.... this looks it like it has a little bit of potential moving that agonizing process along.

And, to balance things out I am going to read #2 in the Saga of Seven Suns sf series A Forest of Stars which I defiantly am enjoying. I can't really see how it is seriously worse than many another space opera out there. I don't read them to be enlightened. I don't know why I read them!!!!!

Claudia -- I tried so hard this time! I thought , no I won't write a review! I won't gush on and on, so folks will be able to shrug and pass it over if they want to. Anyway, at least one of my current books you can pass by!

I was actually able to cancel a PBS order I had just placed so I could use the credit for The Lost Garden instead. :)

Lucy, please don't deprive me of your awesome reviews! Ignore the woman moaning whining behind the curtain! :)
(moaning behind the curtain was a poor choice of words. :P)

I'm already nervous about Quantum Leaps. lol

I'm going to be able to get a couple of the Humphreys books from the library -- one today and one later in the week, I hope!

Claudia -- I'll keep you posted on 8761419::Quantum Leaps, but I will admit I did incredibly well in physics in high school, able to grasp most concepts, to my surprise and everyone else's, believe you me, since I can barely add, struggle to multiply and simply cannot ever divide anything, but it turns out other skills are involved, I guess. (Daydreaming with mouth open, perhaps??? Universes away????) Needless to say, I did not pursue it in college, but that very good experience has given me the courage to go out and tackle stuff I wouldn't have touched otherwise.

I found another Humphreys listed too that TK didn't mention (you listening, TK?) called 2572666::Wild Dogs. I figure I'm going to go for broke.

It was a little risque, Claudia, but fun!

Kittens don't particularly care for dogs, as a rule. I might have to make an exception for Helen Humphreys.

Woot! My local library has copy of The Lost Garden. Thanks for the recommendation, Lucy!

67 (sibyx): Aargh, I was reading your thread for the reviews, didn't expect to find books for the wish list... But you've sold me on The Lost City of Z and Mayflower. Also I don't know how I've managed not to have a single book by Jeremy Bernstein. (Another New Yorker fan here, though I've gotten woefully behind in my magazine reading.)

Qebo, you can't be as far behind as I am. I haven't finished my New Yorkers from 2006 yet! Bad habit. I can throw out any unread magazine except the New Yorker. And maybe the Atlantic. That just started last year.

Milles pardons, I am so apologetic. I need to read some terrible books apparently!!!!!!!

As stated in the intro the purpose of Quantum Leaps is 'to give an account of {a} cultural transformation' -- that is from Quantum theory being an obscure idea, the province exclusively of a few whacky physicists, to being a subject for discussion, study, innovation and application among everyone from physicists to playwrights..... You don't have to understand the science, you could read it just to learn the history and to be surprised, for example, that the Dalai Lama has a deep interest in physics and studied with David Bohm and C.F. von Weizsacker (two more different fellows you can't really imagine - Bohm left the US permanently during the 50's due to the House Un-American hullaballoo and Weizsacker worked for the Nazis...... )

The slow start is due in great part to problems reconciling 'classical' physics to the intimidating implications of the new model - Not entirely unlike what Janet describes in the 15th-16th century as astronomers struggle to make the shift to a heliocentric model outside of which is a huge huge unknown and ever-changing universe. I can't say any more now, because I'm going to have to read everything several times, and god forbid, actually think about it!

In other reading news I plan to switch the audio Mayflower for the book today. It also means I have to find another audio book.

I kowtow to your understanding of physics, Lucy. It didn't happen for me in high school, but I have the hubris to think that it might now, sometime, maybe..... I own a copy of The Dancing Wu Li Masters that I thought might teach me, but it's probably so out of date by now that it wouldn't matter whether I understood it or not. Oh well.

Well I've just added all the Helen Humphreys to my Bookmooch wishlist - I hadn't heard of her before. I like the comparison between coming to terms with quantum physics and the earlier struggle to come to terms with a new understanding of the universe back in the 15th century. It is profoundly unsettling and often emotionally disturbing, even on a local and personal scale, when one's previous understanding of how things are is upturned; the adjustment to a new understanding takes courage, and a willingness to set out into the unknown without too many landmarks. Not surprising that some people prefer to defend the older views as long as they possibly can rather than undergo the hard work of re-arranging their mental furniture.

I am looking forward to following your science odyssey. I am in the middle of helping my 16-year old with her Physics GCSE, so I might actually understand some of it!

#214 Oh Peggy, I hope Dancing Wu Li Masters is not out of date. It was assigned reading in college and it was difficult to wrap my head around back then, so, in the hopes that I could understand it now I purchased another copy, which I haven't read yet. Maybe I shouldn't even bother.

Oh gosh, I read that...... hmmm, it was sort of about mysticism and consciousness having some connection w/ quantum stuff .... I do not remember much of anything about it. Maybe I'll go look and see if anyone wrote a useful review here. I think we own it, somewhere, in a box....in the storage unit (that is now my excuse for anything I can't find -- it's so irrefutable) Talk about Schrodinger's Cat!!! Maybe there's nothing in any of those boxes, oh how I wish.

I would say -- it's more as if I approach understanding, I have glimmerings of understanding, nothing I can ever hold onto for very long..... tentative. I'm not afraid to try, that's the main thing.

Oh la la -- the science-y types are so dismissive of Wu Li! I think many of them reacted that way to the What the Bleep movie too?? Attempts to make 'science' accessible tend to evoke howls. So who knows? Anyhow, the reviews didn't help me, I think I read it 30 years ago, and I've noticed lately that stuff from back then has mostly been dumped out of my long-term storage unless I've had reason to think of it in the interim.....

After spraying my beverage all over my screen, reading those reviews of Wu Li, I think maybe I'll just follow along with your Quantum Leaps, Sib. It's a real art to be able to explain complex issues to lay people. Have you read other books by Bernstein? {And excuse me if you've already discussed that somewhere on the thread--my brain is something like a sieve today.} How the heck are you, anyway? Now I'm off to the grocery store, "braving" our 5 inches of St. Louis snow with streets more than adequately salted, sanded, and plowed. The way the weather people were gravely reporting the snow story this morning, you would think we lived in Tupelo, MS. Good grief.

P.S. Not that there's anything wrong with Tupelo.

Scathing is kind of an understatement for some of those write-ups, eh???

I'm good btw, a bit astonished by how relentless it all is up here, you know cold, howling winds, snow, wolves howling, full moon so bright you can ski by it (which I did btw -- nobody get any fancy ideas -- I fell down and had a terrible time getting up, good thing hub was there -- while I was trying to get myself untangled and upright my botto got so cold it felt like it was burning and when we got home we noticed the thermo said -8!!!! I NEVER would have gone out if I had noticed that, but it was gorgeous!!!!) Anyhow that sort of thing characterizes my life at present. I go out and thrash around in the white stuff every day and come home pink-cheeked and probably annoyingly healthy-looking..... otherwise no news is good news and that is mainly my news..... and I like it like that!

I've read scads of New Yorker articles by Bernstein, no other books I don't think? but he's been around a good long time so I'm going to go look -- he's one of the ones I go "oh goody" when I see his name in the t of c. They insist on clarity in non-fiction writing and it shows again and again.

Nope, haven't read any --and it's a long list of books, some titles very familiar, esp one on Oppenheimer. Now I have read another bio of Oppenheimer, way long ago, in the 70's. What a very weird guy he was, but he is interesting enough to warrant another look. Meanwhile I've added Cranks, Quarks, and the Cosmos to my wishlist though. Depending on where he published the pieces in it, I've probably read a few at least.

Dancing Wu Li Masters ..I read it, I liked it.

Quantum Physics makes beautiful, perfect sense to me. I think one uses the non algebra part of your brain to understand it.

cold, howling winds, snow, wolves howling, full moon so bright you can ski by it

Wow, sounds like quite a night. I know 10 or 20 years ago I could have handled that sort of thing. I'd like to think I still could now. I'm a very low-maintenance type person, so things such as you describe appeal to me, a lot.

(MUCH better you two than me out at -8°. The wolves would have to listen to me howling.)

I go out and thrash around in the white stuff every day

I like that description!

It is literally true as I frequently experience equipment failure .....

Oh I know you would, B, if you were here that night. It was incredible, you could have read a book by that light. it was very hard to get to sleep as we don't really have curtains. I had to put a sock over my eyes, yah, a clean one.

I did make up the wolves.

After all my big talk I am so not in the mood for serious reading, I'm diving into my space opera asap! It really feels, this week, like the absolute lull the absolute dead of winter. I know the sun is creeping a bit at a time earlier and later but you can't quite feel it yet.

Your description of the moonlight reminds me of Donald Hall talking about the meaning of moonlighting when he talked about one of his relatives (I think) being able to chop wood in January at night when there was a full moon.

That's lovely! I'm sure the full moon has this effect wherever there is a lot of snow!

I hope all is well and you are not buried in the snow or somesuch.

I'm progressing through Quantum Leaps however I'm finding the structure of it a little hard to follow..... it's partly a overview of how the idea of quantum physics gained credibility as first one physicist and then another tackled various problems, partly a history of how those from other walks of life, political, religious and artistic have approached and absorbed (or rejected) quantum theory, and partly a memoir of Bernstein's own adventures with physics. It's organized sort of along a timeline but not strictly, each chapter seems to be organized around an interesting 'intersection' -- say the Dalai Lama and his 'teachers' and the issues that he (the DL) seems most interested in (nature of consciousness, say) or in the chapter I just finished, how Tom Stoppard used wave/particle light theory (incorrectly, but nonetheless entertainingly) in his play 'Hapgood,' as a metaphor for not being able to know, anything beyond probabillities (in this case, with a bunch of spies!) which is combined with Bernstein's own experience of discovering physics in college and his own struggles to comprehend relativity, regular and special, as well as quantum theory.

Is my brain hurting? Yuh hunh.

B -- while you wrote that note I was sitting here scratching my head writing the above comment, buried under layers of confusion, more like.

This weekend is supposed to be fantastically cold here, minus digits during the day. Everyone was bustling around doing everything they could think of, prepatory to hunkering down. It's best to stay home and keep any eye on yr. pipes!

I just wish that our garbage did not keep getting buried by snow and hope (poss. in vain) that one of these months the sanitation people might actually (gasp) pick it up and take it away!!

going to be icy here too, but not minus digits, thankfully, as I still have no heat upstairs. As it is, shall have to pack cats around me to keep me warm...

Ugh yes, sympathy, mountains of unpicked up garbage is the urban worst side-effect of lots of snow and winter..... in Philly the garbage trucks double as the snowplows, but thankfully at least when it is cold enough for snow the trash stays frozen.

- 10 here, not supposed to warm up much, but it seems all very innocent right now, blue sky, no wind, just cold.

NO HEAT? In yr whole apartment? This is not a good thing!!!

Wow, Lucy! We are balmy compared to you! It's almost Margarita weather with a -2! I need to pick up my son from a sleepover and then it's back home to watch the ice crystals glisten and roast a chicken.
You've got me wishlisting all of these quantum books. It's just so darn interesting.

>155 sibylline:: Sib, I am so envious at you discovering Wesley as she was being published! I only discovered her this past year and am smitten with her writing.
>164 Chatterbox:: I have been trying to find Mitford's Madame Pompadour for several years now. It has been brutally expensive the one or two times I have found a copy online.
{working my way down the thread, so more ETAs to come}
>189 sibylline:: must, must, must get a copy of the Lost Garden now. Read and reviewed her Frozen Thames a while ago and loved it.
>194 TomKitten:: and she's Canadian, she crowed!

I admire your intrepid spirit, getting out there to ski by moonlight. We literally do have wolves here, well, coyotes and brush wolves, so nothing would impel me to get out on my skis looking like a well fed dinner they could catch with ease. I prefer to listen to them from the safety of the deck when I let the dog out for her duties. Great thread so far, Lucy, and dangerous!

Hi Sib. You're right in Don's wheelhouse with the physics stuff. Oh my, how that man loves this stuff. He's so excited to hear someone I know is interested in any kind of physics. I just got a lecture about Schrodinger's cat. I've been listening to stuff like this for forty years--listening but not often understanding. He always seems to push me beyond where my brain can go. Huh. He said you should look at something on Wikipedia--let's see if I can put the link in here. Anyway, if the EPR paradox is something that interests you, then he says he has a book you might like.

So anyway, if you have any questions, will you please ask? Because this guy is a natural born teacher and he loves this stuff. I just got another 15-minute lecture on something--the "three body problem"?? Sigh. Darling, I'm not the one reading Quantum Leaps. Maybe I should.

Well Don will be delighted to know that I was just reading about the EPR paradox and am pleased to have the reference to the wiki site which looks helpful, I've been dipping in and out of them, but not that one yet, and overall I am impressed usually by the quality of the wiki physics sites, I think they get nitpicked over and end up being pretty comprehensible -- up to a point. Would Don agree with that???? I have this marvelous little book that picks apart relativity and I made it about 1/2 way following pretty well, even the equations, but then hit a wall..... I could understand the concept, but I never could have the flashing lights lining up which is sort of how it feels when I (briefly) get it.

I've got to go haul the dear child around to 'tech' (stage crew) and so on, AND she's having a sleepover tonight with a 4-7 girls, can't figure out the numbers, talk about the problem with measuring anything! (Don will get it!). Girls are way harder than any photon!

No heating upstairs (living room and bedroom); downstairs (office and kitchen) are just fine. Sigh. Electricity bills look like it's summer with all the space heaters, and my bedroom is still only 51 degrees. Once I'm under the duvet with multiple cats strategically placed, I will be fine... Really...

When my mother remarried and we moved to western NY state to enact the Brady Bunch-Bizarro World version, we lived in a farmhouse that had no heat at all on the 3rd floor (4 b-rooms, all filled with boys) or in the long room over the kitchen where my sisters and I slept. Our room, being above the kitchen got some heat, but my brothers would have snow in their rooms that would leak in around the windows and then stay. My oldest brother never got over being indignant about it.

#239 & 240--You guys are making me cold!

>240 sibylline:: the Brady Bunch-Bizarro World version
Tee hee, I can imagine! Which one were you: Marcia, Jan, or Cindy?

Great to hear your thoughts about Quantum Leaps Lucy (and everyone else). It's been ages since I read a sciencey book. I tried to go to a Quantum Mechanics course at university but the equations just hurt my brain too much. Applied mathematics was never my strong point...

Since it was bizzaro Brady and I am the middle daughter I must have been Jan.... I did hate wearing glasses! But believe me, the similarities end there!!!!!!!

I'm here to report that I finished #2 in the endless space opera series I've gotten hooked on, this one called A Forest of Stars. Which leads me to the only question worth asking: Why did I read it? One thing I've decided is to make a clear distinction between science fiction and space opera - science fiction is either highly highly even innovatively imaginative or it is a serious attempt to write a story set in a 'future' that has a modicum of plausibility......whereas in s.o. you can just do whatever the heck you want and not explain, like have faster than light star-drive that runs on 'ekti' (some form of hydrogen) or beings made of liquid crystal and trees that communicate in some quantum manner..... good space opera has decent characters, a good plot, can be humorous, and inventive in its own way, but...... its purpose is to be entertaining, nothing more or less. I seem to have a weakness for it, maybe I can work through it? I rushed through this to be ready for Virago week, but helplessly found myself picking up #3...... However I do plan to dip into The Gentlewomen, Laura Talbot this week even if I don't manage to finish it. That will up the number of books on my Currently Reading, but that seems to be an occupational hazard of belonging to LT.

I'm reading Quantum Leaps in tiny bites and a lot of rereading. The spousal unit is going to read it when I'm done and then we'll put our heads together -- we've read Hawking and several others that way and believe me, it makes a difference to have someone willing to go over the ideas with you.

I believe it Heather -- I greatly admire you for trying. I can only get so far really 'getting' it -- at a certain point my brain baulks like a horse at a jump that is too high -- mostly I am open-minded and willing to wander in the murk with an occasional glimmer.

>240 sibylline: Our room, being above the kitchen got some heat, but my brothers would have snow in their rooms that would leak in around the windows and then stay.

But, but..but Lucy, snow is a great insulator.

I know my bro would have said, no, no, no -- snow in your bedroom is a great insulter! My husband and I stayed in that room over one Christmas when my mother was still living there and it was astonishingly cold -- except for being out of the wind (sort of, there was a pretty good draft) you might as well have been outside. I think we went and bought ourselves an electric blanket (which we left there for the next helpless victim).

Well, there's been enough discussion of Quantum Leaps that I'm putting it on my TBR. Got a PhD in physics, so I'm willing to discuss quantum mechanics, etc, if folks are interested.

And I will sit back and watch in awe and wonder. MAYBE I'll pick up Godel, Escher, Bach for the umpteenth time, but I make no promises.
("Insulator/insulter" - I do like to see a woman make the most of opportunity when it drifts in.) (Heh Heh Heh)

And I will sit back and watch in awe and wonder. MAYBE I'll pick up Godel, Escher, Bach for the umpteenth time, but I make no promises.
("Insulator/insulter" - I do like to see a woman make the most of opportunity when it drifts in.) (Heh Heh Heh)

>246 sibylline: The Kansas farmhouse I grew up in had a "long room over the kitchen" that was the only room on the second floor--the attic was on the other side of the closet. Both the kitchen and the bedroom extended across the complete back of the house. I moved up there when I was 8 and lived there until 18. No heat, although a little bit might waft up from the kitchen, and it had 15 windows (with no storm windows). 7 all along the east side, 3 each north and south, and two small windows on the west peaking out over the roof line. It was quite common to have ice frozen solid on the inside of the north windows. When I reached high school, electric blankets were invented, and WOW did it make a difference.

("Insulator/insulter" - I do like to see a woman make the most of opportunity when it drifts in.) (Heh Heh Heh)

Very cute, Peggy!

For those of you who are inclined to read The Frozen Thames, I highly recommend it! Suz, I think you would really like it, because you are such an anglophile.

Roni -- We were lucky that our room did not have very many windows!!!! also, I don't think there was much insulation between the kitchen and our room, like, you could peek into the downstairs in the area around the chimney...... so we got plenty of hot air.

Jim I think you should love the quirky combination of memoir and anecdotes and discussion of the various issues that have plagued quantum physics.....

The last two chapters are on Entanglement -- the issue? Local (classical physics, reality-as-we-know-it-based) and non-local influence (allowing for instantaneous faster-than-the-speed of light) and the other called Anyway What the #S*! Do We Know which takes a sharp look at how some fiction writers and popular writers (including Zukav) have approached or 'used' quantum ideas in their work. The only writers who get high grades are Pynchon (for using a Poisson distribution correctly in Gravity's Rainbow -- that is for you Jim) and a french novelist called Houllebecq who I want to look for. I had the novel by Rebecca Goldstein The Properties of Light around in my workroom for a long long time and I would pick it up and try to read it and the physics in it bothered me for some reason, didn't 'feel' right and I would heave it across the room -- now I at least know my instincts were correct.... I kept wanting to be wrong because I felt that Goldstein was so smart and confident-sounding that it had to be right, but I would get lost somewhere -- it's the danger maybe in being too specific in a novel -- she was so close to 'something' real that it was too obvious that it wasn't quite authentic. If she'd been more vague, possibly? I don't know.

Bernstein is not enthusiastic about The Dancing Wu Li Masters-- 'it is like building a house on a block of ice' ----- outdated thinking, decades behind where physicists are now, terminally vague and conflated and so on. Plus Bernstein offers his formula for testing whether a statement makes any statement at all that I adored: " I have a test for phrases like 'which is part of the world of form, which is emptiness, which is form'. I negate the propositions: 'which is not part of the world of form, which is not emptiness, which is not form.' If I cannot attach more sense to one as opposed to the other, I go on to something else. Try as I might I cannot make much sense of out Zukav's book." So there you have it, folks. I would trust this fellow absolutely.

It ends with a quote from his holiness the sublime Richard Feynmann:
"Might I say immediately... we always have a great deal of difficulty understanding the world view that quantum mechanics represents.... I cannot define the real problem, therefore I suspect there's not a real problem, but I am not sure there no real problem."

Jim, let me know when you get to it?

Will do. Entanglement is one of those puzzles I cannot get my brain wrapped around. I read the sf stories and enjoy them, and I get the math, but it's just weird to think about it. After a bit, my eyes start crossing! :)

I read The Dancing Wu Li Masters when it came out. Wasn't impressed then, the situation hasn't changed. Zukav's book was a lot like some of the popular works on the multiverse now - vague ideas with no real basis in anything we measure. I'll see if I can stir up suggestions for decent current popularizations on particle physics.

I'm in agreement on all fronts! I was talking with the spousal unit about Dancing Wu Li and he remembered that he just never could get anywhere with it. I have a feeling that I never managed to get through it either, but that it resided in my 'currently reading' pile for so long that it was 'like' I did read it...... I like to think that mostly happens when my brain knows best.

O.K. I'm feeling some relief that I don't need to try *WuLi*, but nobody's let me off the *GSBach* hook, and I actually still want to read and like that one. (I do realize that it has not to do with particle physics.)

Peggy, yes, I think you can definitely set *WuLi* aside.

I started a new thread and apologize for the weirdness of the first few posts, evidently I was trying to do something a bit too clever for the time of night. here

*waving* at Lucy

Phew! Read through your thread and enjoyed the discussions. Added Lost City of Z to the pile. Have Mayflower on my shelf, may put it off until the sun is out, and it's not so gloomy. We have had 42 cloudy/rainy days in a row here in Seattle.

I'm with Stasia - *waving* at Lucy : ). I see on my home page that you've added Annabel to your LT adventures. I'll be curious to know what you think ...

I have tried/read The Frozen Thames and it just didn't click for me...

Laughing at the cold stories (and wishing I were too cold vs too hot today...) Did a "homestay" program at a farmhouse in northern Japan and woke up one morning in a panic because my eyelashes were frozen together.

Love the distinction between sci-fi and space opera. The latter DEF. not for me!