Why I voted "no"? (Tag separation/combination) #10

http://www.librarything.com/tag/P.+Levi is referring to Primo Levi.
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Levi+P. is on an old chemistry journal, I believe. I don't think they're at all related.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Fiction+Levin currently has books by Meyer Levin and Jennifer Levin.
http://www.librarything.com/tag/levin+fiction has a book by Ira Levin. I see no reason to combine these tags at this point.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Levin+R. is used to refer to Rahel Levin (Varnhagen)
http://www.librarything.com/tag/R+Levin is used on a book titled "Irish Identity and the Literary Revival" so I don't think they're at all related.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Levin+M. is used on the same book about Rahel Varnhagen.
http://www.librarything.com/tag/M+Levin is referring to Meyer Levin so I don't think they're at all related.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Levi-Strauss is mostly about anthropologist Claude Lévi-Strauss, while http://www.librarything.com/tag/Strauss+Levi is about the jeans manufacturer, so I opposed their combination. I've also proposed a separation proposal for getting "Levi Strauss" out of "Levi-Strauss", since the former mostly is used on books about the jeans manufacturer.

>1 omargosh:

Regarding the first proposal you mention: I'm betting Primo Levi has an article in that journal.

I guess it's a possibility, but I think it's probably safe to say that little research or care was put into the proposal in the first place.

Looking at the only book tagged "Cultural Eevolution", I think it is far more likely that that is a typo for "revolution" rather than "evolution":

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Cultural+Eevolution#combine

http://www.librarything.com/tag/volution+of+the+mind

volution is as likely to be volition as evolution.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/litt%C3%A9rature+anglo-saxonne is a false friend of http://www.librarything.com/tag/Anglo-Saxon+literature

Anglo-Saxon literature pretty much only has stuff about Old English, like Beowulf.

littérature anglo-saxonne, on the other hand, just has modern English language books. It's referring to the literature of the Anglosphere. Terms like anglo-saxonne / anglosajón / etc. are used differently in other languages.

>7 omargosh:

Good catch!

I voted against
http://www.librarything.com/tag/inner+child (which is used broadly (102 taggers), mostly on self-help/psychology books for adults about healing the inner child) with
http://www.librarything.com/tag/inner+kid (which is used by 5 people, and is just children's books)

>9 omargosh: I actually agree with that one. Inner Child is a complete phrase unto itself and you can't just substitute a word and have it mean the same thing.

>10 jjwilson61: I actually agree with that one.

OMG, is this a first?

:-)

According to Wikipedia at least 8 countries have an Atomic Energy Commission, so I've opposed the proposal of the misspelled US version into that tag, while also proposing a separation:

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Atomic+Energy+Commission

Based on other tags on the work, it's pretty clear that the tagger is tagging the work with "{performer(s)} {composer}" (or vice versa), so I'm pretty sure that https://www.librarything.com/tag/Beethoven+Eroica is a reference to the Eroica Trio instead of the Eroica symphony.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Old+Testament-Joshua
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Old+Testament-Leviticus
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Old+Testament-Genesis

When you say Old Testament, you are limiting your view to Christianity. The other tag would include Jewish works.

ETA
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Old+Testament-Exodus

http://www.librarything.com/tag/TYS

TYS is the airport code for McGhee Tyson Airport in Tennessee

Thank You Sir
Told You So

And various other things https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TYS

>14 MarthaJeanne:

Agreed.

I have also proposed a number of separations here: http://www.librarything.com/tag/Pentateuch#combine

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Jessamyn+West is two people, and at least one of the tags refers to the one not of the dates 1902–1984

>16 lilithcat: I also proposed a few separations, but did not do a complete job. It was getting late.

>18 MarthaJeanne:

I saw those, thanks for doing it.

This conflation of "Bible" with "Christian Bible" happens to be one of my pet peeves.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/j%C3%BCd.+Feste

I want to say this is just Google Translate being screwy:

jud Feste, without the period, is Jewish Festivals?
jud. Feste, with the period, is Jewish Firm?

(This is why I vote undecided on any language I'm uncertain of.)

>20 gilroy: That's Google Translate being weird.
But yes, 'fest' as an adjective means 'firm', as in 'not soft' (never as in law firm). As a noun it means 'festival'. Without the period they are translating it as a phrase, with as two separate words. The period is because it is really 'jüdische'.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Juggernaut+Jr is a comic-book character
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Jr.+Juggernaut is a musical group

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Country%3ATurkey is used by that tagger to designate where they've sent kids a bunch of books. The books, unlike those in its combination proposal, don't otherwise have anything to do with Turkey.

The great majority of works tagged history-books are books about history (not about books). However, this tag is proposed for combination with 10 tags used mostly or entirely for the history of books:

• history--books
• history.books
• history/books
• BOOKS History
• Books -- History
• /Books - history/
• Books- History
• Books › History
• Books > History
• Books--History

I've proposed these 10 tags for combination with each other (via Books--History), but I don't think they should be combined with history-books based on current usage.

I don't know whether regionalkrimi should be combined with either Regional thriller or Regional crime story – neither of which actually seems to be in use – but it certainly shouldn't be combined with both.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/LIT+CHINOISE

Wouldn't that be French for 'Chinese bed'?

>26 MarthaJeanne:

Actually, "lit" is masculine, so the French for "Chinese bed" would be "lit chinois".

Nevertheless, I take your point.

And if you google "lit Chinoise", they think you mean "lit chinois"

>24 Edward:
Should we really combine https://www.librarything.com/tag/BOOKS+History with https://www.librarything.com/tag/Books--History then? The first one admittedly has a mix of the two meanings.

>25 Edward:
While I'm dubious about the combination, the German word "Krimi" does include both thrillers and crime fiction. The idea of a regional thriller is an odd one, though.

From what I can tell, http://www.librarything.com/tag/Maximillian+Lawrence is the name of an artist featured in the tagged work, and http://www.librarything.com/tag/Lawrence+Maximillian is a fictional character in the tagged work.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/G+Becker is a reference to American economist Gary Becker
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Becker+G. is a reference to German chemist Gerd Becker

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Adam+Becker is only on one book, referring to a fictional character of that name
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Becker+Adam is only on one book, referring to the non-fictional editor of the work, so I see no reason to combine these tags at the moment

http://www.librarything.com/tag/eyewitness+guides
There are Eyewitness Guides that are not travel guides. I have also suggested the separations.

>31 omargosh: All tags referring to G. Becker should be combined together, as well as Adam Becker. The ambiguity is inherent and not to be avoided.

>33 prosfilaes:
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, and vote accordingly.

Semi-off topic: Is there a good place to ask about cover flagging? I found a cover where a number of people have voted it inapplicable when it is in fact applicable. I poked around a little and couldn't find an obvious spot.

>35 Stevil2001: https://www.librarything.com/groups/flaggers

>35 Stevil2001: Honestly, cover flagging doesn't do much of anything unless it's marked as spam.

>36 norabelle414: Well, that was obvious. Thanks!

>37 gilroy: Is it still never tallied? Boo.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/ser%3A+Barney currently just has a Janet Evanovich mystery
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Series+-+Barney currently just has a Barney the purple dinosaur book
so I see no reason to combine them at this time.

I also voted against https://www.librarything.com/tag/Walter+Bauer+1877-1960 with the dateless tag since there at least 8 Walter Bauers.

>39 omargosh: and http://www.librarything.com/tag/Barney+series includes an Enid Blyton.

>40 MarthaJeanne:
Yeah, there's at least another match on that proposal, though.

Some other no-votes of mine:

https://www.librarything.com/tag/BIRMINGHAM%3A+FICTION currently is just tagged on a book by Stephen Birmingham.
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Fiction+-+Birmingham currently is just tagged on one book to refer to the place in Alabama, so I don't see a reason to combine these at the moment.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/books+-+history+-+brazil is about the history of books in Brazil, whereas
https://www.librarything.com/tag/BOOKS+Brazil+history seems just to be used on a book about Brazilian history

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Gertrude+Bell with Gertrude Lowthian Bell since there at least 2 authors named Gertrude Bell.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Bratpack is used for one book: Captain Britain, a comic book omnibus.
https://www.librarything.com/tag/brat+pack refers to the group of US actors called by that collective nickname in the 1980s.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/fathers+and+daughters is not quite the same thing as
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Vater-Tochter-Beziehung (father-daughter-relationship)
(Yes, I have added a couple of tag translations)

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Englisch%3B+Fantasy is one fantasy novel in the English language (The Princess Bride, by an American, taking place in a fictional country)
https://www.librarything.com/tag/English+Fantasy is full of fantasy novels of various types: by English authors, taking place in England, and all in the English language.

I'm confused by all the tags that refer to physical locations, like boxes and shelves. For example, the proposed combination of three tags with Box 70:

Box-070
Box-70
Box # 70

Is this the same as when people add single characters to notate/differentiate words and phrases in their tags? Will combining location-based tags mess up people's careful cataloging?

>44 karenb: Tag combinations have no effect on members' own libraries. I'd vote in favor of the proposed combination (but then, I'm one of those people who thinks that rutabaga and #rutabaga ought to br combined).

I mucked up a proposal. Please vote no!

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Early+Jubal+A. plus a tag made up of a URL (which doesn't exist as a tag, of course).

On a tangential note, I think that
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Jubal+Early could refer to lots of people (real or fictitious), some of whom are named after
https://www.librarything.com/tag/General+Jubal+A.+Early the historic figure (US Civil War).

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Early+Jubal+A. is the tag with the middle initial but not the military rank, which I think would combine better with the General'd tag.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/fronti%C3%A8re+mexicaine Wouldn't frontière mexicaine just mean Mexican border?

>14 MarthaJeanne: >16 lilithcat: When you say Old Testament, you are limiting your view to Christianity. The other tag would include Jewish works.

I don't quite understand your reason for separating a book about the Pentateuch on the basis of the author's view: The Pentateuch are the five books of Mose, so the tags OT P' and P' were combined because they 'treat' both the same subject. If a Christian gets a book about the Pentateuch, he uses probably the tag OT Pentateuch (and maybe adds a descriptive like 'Jewish' or 'Moslem' or 'Catholic' or 'Calvinist' ... based on the author's view). 'OT Pentateuch' does not exclude Jewish works, and 'Pentateuch' does not exclude Christian works.

If there is another book 'Pentateuch' which is not the five books of Mose, I would separate that, but since I know of such book, I voted no on your proposals.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/tpb

https://www.acronymfinder.com/TPB.html

---
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Anna+Amalie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Amalia

--
http://www.librarything.com/tag/habits
English Habit can also mean the clothing of a monk or nun. German Gewohnheit, is something customary

History of a place is not the same as history from a place.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/history+of+Indonesia is limited to the history of Indonesia.
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Indonesian+history could also include histories from Indonesia of things outside Indonesia.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Historio+de+Meksiko
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Mexican+History

Or is it just me?

>51 karenb: I'm generally a splitter, but if I see 'American History', I expect history of America, and not a book about the history of Europe written by an American scholar.

There is a proposal to combine "Buster Crabbe" with "Buster Crabb", and it's almost approved: http://www.librarything.com/tag/Buster+Crabb#combine

But they are not the same person. Crabbe with an "e" is the actor/swimmer. Crabb without the "e" was a Royal Navy frogman with a mysterious fate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Crabb He is a far more likely candidate for inclusion in the book Loch Ness Monsters and Raining Frogs: The World's Most Puzzling Mysteries Solved!

Excellent point. Thanks.

>53 lilithcat: Most indulgent use of a time machine: go back in time and explain to the people who called Lionel Crabb "Buster Crabb" that the nickname would be confusing in the future and could they please not use it.

There is a proposal to combine "trilogy #2" with "book 2 in a trilogy".

I have two problems with this.

First, the former could refer to a second trilogy. Secondly, with people cataloguing films on the site, it could also refer to "film 2 in a trilogy".

I am proposing appropriate separations.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/trilogy+%232#combine

"CIA" can mean the Culinary Institute of America as well as the Central Intelligence Agency. The tag is used for both.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/CIA#combine
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Central+Intelligence+Agency#combine

>57 lilithcat: Looks like that combination has been proposed twice (once in each direction), so be sure to vote no on both of them.

The books tagged "language: Serbo-Croatian" are all literature. Books tagged "Serbo-Croatian language" appear to all be language books, dictionaries and the like.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/language%3A+Serbo-Croatian#combine

There are non-fiction books as well as literature for children and young adults: http://www.librarything.com/tag/children%252Fya#combine

The "skönlitteratur vs. fiction" debate raises its head again:

http://www.librarything.com/tag/sk%C3%B6nlitteratur+New+Zeal.#combine

If you look at the books at http://www.librarything.com/tag/NEIBORS, it's highly suspect that it's a misspelling for neighbors (there are way more books than in a typical misspelled tag). I found this on the interwebs: "eBooks now available through NEIBORS ... The North Eastern Iowa Bridge to Online Resource Sharing (NEIBORS) consortium is a project of North Central Library Service Area, Northeast Iowa Library Service Area and East Central Library Services. One hundred libraries from across the service areas are participating in the project by paying a yearly fee."

And once again, http://www.librarything.com/tag/spa is used a lot for "Spa(nish)", not just the place you go to relax.

>62 omargosh:

And if you look at other tags used by one of the two people who use "NEIBORS", you see tags with "UNI" (University of Northern Iowa).

And once again, http://www.librarything.com/tag/spa is used a lot for "Spa(nish)", not just the place you go to relax.

Okay, but what is "balneario"?

>62 omargosh:

Is there a missing "not" in your first sentence?

>63 lilithcat: If you believe Google Translate, balneario is Spanish for spa, as in the place you relax, a baths, or health resort.

>63 lilithcat:
what gilroy said

>64 lorax:
I don't think there is, but I guess I can see how it's not the clearest sentence ever, and wouldn't be the first time I got confused by my native language. :-)

https://www.librarything.com/tag/A+STEPHANIE+PLUM+MYSTERY

There's a couple proposals to link a blank to an existing tag. I voted no on the others without copying links here, but here is the most recent I've stumbled across. (This one, interestingly has four yes votes.)

A "place" is not the same thing as an "organization", even if they're imaginary: http://www.librarything.com/tag/Hogwarts+School+of+Witchcraft+and+Wizardry+%28Im...

"Series: Wizardry" and "Wizardry series" appear to refer to different series: http://www.librarything.com/tag/Series%3A+Wizardry#combine

"Literatura en Español" (Literature in Spanish) is not the same thing as "Literatura Español" (Spanish literature). The latter could encompass Spanish literature in translation, and the first could encompass non-Spanish literature translated into Spanish.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Literatura+en+Espa%C3%B1ol#combine

http://www.librarything.com/tag/romaani

Apparently romaani can also mean romance as in Romance languages.

I think the tag "disciples - foot washing" is ambiguous. It could refer to "Washing disciples' feet", but could it not also refer to disciples washing the feet of others?

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Washing+disciples%27+feet#combine

>61 lilithcat: http://www.librarything.com/tag/Belletristik is also not the same as fiction.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/spa is up again with balneario.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/IRA seems to mostly be books about the Irish Republican Army, not ire (as in anger)

http://www.librarything.com/tag/prestado would technically be lent, not borrowed.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Espa%C3%B1olas would either mean Spanish women (only half of the Spaniards out there), or could refer to something else Spanish, like (novelas) españolas, (películas) españolas, etc., but I don't think it should be combined with Spaniards

Since africano and africana are not equivalent, neither should be combined with http://www.librarything.com/tag/African

There are several more pairs that are similar.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Novela

Suggestion to combine Novel and Novela is up again.

We really need a disambiguation field on tag pages.

For notes like: Roman in English is related to the city of Rome. The same word in German means novel. Therefore this tag cannot be combined with any word that has only one of those meanings.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Furia

This one I'm saying no, but I can probably be convinced.
Furia seems to refer to a band name and a type of fungi. Fury, on the other hand, is referring to something else entirely.

>77 MarthaJeanne:: Agreed

https://www.librarything.com/tag/novelado

Okay, I'm basing this on Google Translate, so again, could be wrong:
Novelado is novelty (though when you reverse it on Google Translate is says this is Novelized. WEIRD!)
Novelada is novella

So I don't think they should be combined with each other or with novelized.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Wild+n%27+Woolley would seem to refer to the author woolley, and not 'woolly' in general.

Not all Stephany (a/k/a Stephanie) Plum mysteries are novels. Some are novellas, and some are short stories.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Stephany+Plum+mystery#combine

Same for Temperance Brennan: http://www.librarything.com/tag/%28Temperance+Brennan+Novels%29#combine There are short stories in the series as well as novels.

No one is using the tag "Irish tiles", which could just as easily (if not more likely to) mean a decorative material as a misprint for "tales".

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Tales--Irish#combine

"Chino" is used for things (pottery, dairy farming area) that have nothing to do with anything Chinese: http://www.librarything.com/tag/chino#combine

>82 lilithcat: I proposed a combination for "Stephany Plum mystery" and "Stephanie Plum mystery" because those have the same meaning aside from misspelling.

"Temperance Brennan Novels" without the parentheses is already combined into "Temperance Brennan series"-- if "(Temperance Brennan Novels") shouldn't be combined into "Temperance Brennan series" then it seems like all variants of "Temperance Brennan Novels" should be uncombined.

>85 Stevil2001:

No objection to the combination of "Stephany" and "Stephanie"; the problem is that not all the SP mysteries are novels.

And, yes, "novels" and "series" should be separated unless the series consists solely of novels.

>86 lilithcat: No, I agree with your read on the Plum thing, and I voted "no." I just suspect that the instinct of the proposer was to merge that lonely tag into something else, so I went and found something more appropriate.

>82 lilithcat:, >85 Stevil2001: through >87 Stevil2001:

I put some of the separations for the novels versus the series for the Temperance Brennan tag but I know I missed some.

"Harry Potter #4" could as easily refer to the films as to the books*, and as no one is using that tag at the moment, I see no reason to combine it with "Harry Potter Series Book 4": http://www.librarything.com/tag/Harry+Potter+%234#combine

*Just a note that when a book series has been filmed for television or the movies, I vote "no" on combining a tag with "book" with a generic tag.

>89 lilithcat:: Agreed. Admittedly, some "book 4" tags are already in there, so I will propose separation.

83
Irish tiles was my mistake. I wish there were an withdraw option. Sorry.

I submitted a 2nd request to combine "Edward Hopper" with "HOOPER Edward (Artist)." Both times it's getting voted down. I won't try a 3rd time, but I'm curious why people are voting against it. "HOOPER Edward (Artist)" is only used once for an Edward Hopper book. I don't know of any artists named Edward Hooper. Google assumes it's misspelled, and the top results for Edward Hooper is a person involved in AIDS origins research of some kind. In short, "HOOPER" appears to be a typo.

Many of the books tagged heroic age are comics with the "Heroic Age" branding (Wikipedia), so I've voted against a combination with heroic era.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Danny+Torrence

Danny Torrence is a musical artist.

Danny Torrance is a Stephen King character.

And yes, I know that all the entries for the first actually mean the second.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/glinda

is not the same as Galinda. The two names may be interchangable in Wicked, but not in the Oz books.

Glinde is a town in Germany.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/historico

It seems that, depending on context, historico can mean history, historic, or historical.

>95 MarthaJeanne:

"Glinda" also appears to be used for a lot of culinary and craft books, apparently because they belong to @glindaharrison.

"Armand Hammer" is a hip hop group as well as a person: http://www.librarything.com/tag/Armand+Hammer#combine

https://www.librarything.com/tag/%22Dear+one%22%5D

"Dear One" (in quotes) looks to be referring to a specific short story in an anthology.
Dear One (without quotes) looks to refer to a character in multiple books.

Not going to vote yes for this.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Gymnastik has lots of books about yoga and pilates and things that are not gymnastics.

I voted against http://www.librarything.com/tag/David+Armand with http://www.librarything.com/tag/Armand+David since there are different people named David Armand (the comedian, the author) and Armand David (the botanist/zoologist).

I also voted against http://www.librarything.com/tag/Yakkhas with http://www.librarything.com/tag/yaksha since the former can also refer to the ethnic group.

Why are people voting yes to combine Math with humor?

http://www.librarything.com/tag/math

>101 MarthaJeanne:

That's so weird. I saw it yesterday when it had only one "yes" vote, and figured that was just a proposer who didn't understand tag combining. So I voted "no" and moved on. I couldn't imagine that anyone else would vote in favor of it. Obviously, I was wrong!

There is now a third since my last post. But it looks like it will be voted down.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Masque+of+the+Red+Death

Masque of the Red Death (no quotes) refers to multiple things including a D&D game module.
"Masque of the Red Death" (with quotes) is very specifically for the Edgar Allen Poe prose poem.

I'm of the opinion this is a no situation.

>100 omargosh: I use David Armand as a tag for Père Armand David. I use tags which have the surname first and then the first name. So my tag is used for the same person as Armand David

Someone's idea of a weird joke? Math is no laughing matter!

>105 paulstalder:

Problem is that there are people named David Armand. By using that instead of "Armand David", you risk confusion. That's why the tags shouldn't be combined. They are not identical.

>107 lilithcat: I don't risk confusion. I want to have a tag list in alphabetical order. For library use the surnames come first. Mixing that order brings the confusion.

>108 paulstalder: For you, maybe it doesn't risk confusion. But not everyone uses library vernacular when inputting tags. Some just put the name.

Some people use Last (First) for such purposes, which is very clear.

But whether or not it is in general a good idea to combine two names that are listed in the normal order and reverse order, when both orders are valid normal order names it probably needs to be avoided.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/%22Christmas+stories%22

"Christmas Stories" (with quotes) refers to a specific short story within an anthology
Christmas Stories (No quotes) refers as a generic to many different stories about the holiday season.

A Christmas Visitor which is the one book tagged "Christmas Stories" (with quotes) does not appear to be an anthology (from its tags and Amazon descriptions), and is also tagged "Sons-Death-Fiction" and 'Families-Fiction". I've voted Yes.

>111 gilroy:

I'm not seeing anything to suggest that's a short story. Can you point me to something showing that?

It actually appears to be the novelization of a made-for-TV movie.

>113 lilithcat: I must have read the tags wrong. Just forget it.

>114 gilroy:

Oh, okay, happens to the best of us!

This is more of a question for any LT staff that follow this thread. Why is there an undecided option in voting? If I am unsure I just skip it.

>116 Hedgepeth:

I'm not staff and I don't know why they do it, but I like having it. If someone has voted "undecided", it signals to me that there may be an issue with the proposal that I hadn't noticed initially.

>116 Hedgepeth: Not staff either. If it's a language I don't know, but I want it off the list so I don't have to keep seeing it, I'll use undecided.

There's also a thread for people who vote undecided, so we can discuss the yeses and noes of the situation.

This is the general way voting is on the site. Whether or not it is useful here (and several people do find it useful) having different voting options in different places is extra programming.

"The Bromeliad" is used solely for books by Terry Pratchett. "Bromeliad" also refers to the plant.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Bromeliad#combine

http://www.librarything.com/tag/1939+World%27s+Fair

There was also a world's fair in San Francisco in 1939. I have suggested some separations, but I'm not sure I got them all.

>112 r.orrison:

You missed one; I've added it.

My understanding is that "delito" means "crime", and not all crimes are felonies: http://www.librarything.com/tag/DELITO#combine

I would not combine "Granger" with "granjero". Although "granger" can be (but rarely is) used in the sense of "farmer", the tag is used for names: http://www.librarything.com/tag/Granger#combine (Also note there is a proposal to combine plural with singular that should be voted down.)

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Wissembourg

Whether or not this French town has ever been called Weißenburg, there is a town on Bavaria of that name.

I'm voting "no" on combining "Koninklijk Huis van Groot-Brittannië" with "Britain- Royal Family", and proposing separations, as I think of the "House" as the dynasty, and the "family" as the current, living representatives of the dynasty.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Koninklijk+Huis+van+Groot-Brittanni%C3%AB#combin...

>125 lilithcat:: Agreed. Also in Dutch we make a distinction between "Koninklijk Huis", essentially meaning people directly eligible to the throne, and "Koninlijke Famile" (Royal Family), which includes several other of their relatives.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Mortal+Instruments+Book+1

Because the first book of Mortal Instruments has been made into a movie, I've voted against combining Mortal Instruments 1 and Mortal Instruments Book 1. I've also proposed separating the others.

I'll go back and find the proper combos for Mortal Instruments series 1 with the ones not book specific later.

"siècle des lumières" and "Age of Enlightenment" refer to a specific period of European history. "Enlightenment", on the other hand, may refer to that, but also is used to refer to spiritual enlightenment.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Enlightenment#combine

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Drachen

The German word 'Drachen' means both dragons and kites (the contraption, not the bird.)

"Whisky" and "whiskey" are different. The difference in spelling relates to where the product is made.

And if you think people don't care, read this.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/his-dark-materials-bk-1

So it seems this is going to be a common issue moving forward.
His Dark Materials Book 1 was made into a movie, so I am voting against combining with His Dark Materials 1

Not all gulls are birds: http://www.librarything.com/tag/gulls#combine

Some are butterflies, some are sailboats, and some are people.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Prayer+Book+Rebellion

Try googling Prayer Book Rebellion 1637

Since Charles I ruled from 1625, it is very unlikely one of books there has this tag because of the 16th century event.

The 1637 rebellion was in Scotland. The 1549 rebellion was in (south) western England. If you go to Google books and do a find, the prime references are to the 1549 event for all 3 books. However, when I saw the proposal, I thought it suspicious, so I didn't vote on it, and I probably still will not vote on it.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/néo-zélandais

This is the adjective form.

Although some of this is attributable to misspellings, there are "Kevin Connelly"s and "Kevin Connolly"s.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Kevin+Connelly#combine

As before, as ever: LASTNAME FIRSTNAME does not equal FIRSTNAME LASTNAME (no punctuation). Sure, it seems logical at first, but if you think a minute about pesky authors who name their characters willy-nilly after notable people, well, no.

See the character "Young Neil" in Bryan Lee O'Malley's Scott Pilgrim books (& movie). Young Neil from the books is not Neil Young (the musician, or any other Neil Young).

http://www.librarything.com/tag/McIntosh+Pollyanna
http://www.librarything.com/tag/helen+macinnes
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Pryce+Jonathan
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Richardson+Ian
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Hoskins+Bob
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Broadbent+Jim
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Van+Fleet+Jo
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Biel+Jessica
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Prochnow+J%C3%BCrgen
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Molina+Alfred
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Howard+Ron

etc. etc.

Also

http://www.librarything.com/tag/WILDER+BILLY
http://www.librarything.com/tag/Wilder%C2%B7Billy

"Albert Hall" refers to the concert venue in London as well as a person by that name. "Hall--Albert" refers only to the person.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Albert+Hall#combine

http://www.librarything.com/tag/prinses

While prinses could be a misspelling of princess, it could also be a misspelling of princes.

>140 gilroy: prinses is Dutch for princess, not a typo.

A proposal to combine "reformed church--united states--history" with "Reformed Church--United States--Clergy--Biography" has, for some unfathomable reason, already received 3 "yes" votes:

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Reformed+Church--United+States--Clergy--Biograph...

I voted no on combining "Doctrine of Church" with "Doctrine of the Church." These two can have 2 very different meanings. The former could mean ecclesiology: theology about what the "church" is or isn't (eg. founded by Jesus or a mere human institution? something visible or invisible? Something with the authority to bind and loose things upon the souls of men, or just a community of believers?) The latter, however, would normally mean the doctrine of a specific church, most likely the one the tagger belonged to ("Doctrine of the Catholic Church," "Doctrine of the Church of Christ," etc.)

>143 neverstopreading:

Link?

>137 karenb: Also Hopper Dennis https://www.librarything.com/tag/Hopper+Dennis

>139 lilithcat: Plus several screens' worth of the LASTNAME--FIRSTNAME proposals

>143 neverstopreading: https://www.librarything.com/tag/Doctrine+of+the+Church (three proposals)

Thanks karenb

There is a proposal to combine a tag "Addison Steel" ( http://www.librarything.com/tag/Addison+Steel ) withe Steele.Addison. Addison Steel writes about Buck Rogers, whereas Steele and Addison ( http://www.librarything.com/tag/Steele.+Addison ) were noteworthy 18th century essayists who wrote together. They aren't worthy of combining. The second tag above should be combined with Addison and Steele which I have proposed for combination.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/john_sanford
John Sanford is also an author.

Mispelled author names are rarely combinable. Even if LT has no author with that name now, that could change.

>148 MarthaJeanne:

There's also https://www.librarything.com/tag/autho+john+sanford

I've also proposed pulling out the two Sanford tags already combined.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Australien

Australien is German for Australia, and therefore should not be combined with Australian.

Same issue: http://www.librarything.com/tag/Saudiarabien

Proposal to combine "spa" and "balneario" is back, yet again: http://www.librarything.com/tag/balneario#combine

Also, re: "Castellà" and "castellano", see: http://www.librarything.com/topic/89914#1937967
http://www.librarything.com/tag/castellano#combine

The John W Campbell Award is different from the John W Campbell Memorial Award. No, really.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/John+W.+Campbell+Award
https://www.librarything.com/tag/John+W.+Campbell+Memorial+Award

>151 lilithcat: Is this the same person that keeps doing it?

>153 neverstopreading:

Sorry, I don't remember who proposed these previously.

>153 neverstopreading: The spa suggestion is by multiple people over the years.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Lucas+Davenport+Book

Because a mystery could be a short story, a novella, or a book, I said no to combining Lucas Davenport Book and Lucas Davenport mystery

>156 gilroy: I tend to vote against most suggestions where one could apply to a different medium, especially books and movies, even if the other medium doesn't exist yet.

In Finnish, revontulet means polar lights, so it shouldn't be combined with northern lights. There are also southern lights.
https://www.librarything.com/tag/northern+lights
https://www.librarything.com/tag/revontulet

Historiallinen means both historic and historical.
https://www.librarything.com/tag/historiallinen
It seems that many people use the two English adjectives differently, so I wouldn't combine historiallinen with historic.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/usage/historic-or-historical

"Slaves › South Carolina › Charleston Region › History" is clearly not the same as "South Carolina - Charleston Region - History", yet it has 5 "yes" votes:

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Slaves+%E2%80%BA+South+Carolina+%E2%80%BA+Charle...

There are Phryne Fisher short stories and a television series as well as novels: http://www.librarything.com/tag/Phryne+Fisher+mystery

Given that this is primarily a book site, I think it's reasonable that a tag that doesn't specify the medium should be presumed to mean the books. Otherwise every time a movie or tv show is made from a book we have to go and separate out the tags, which seems like overkill.

>161 jjwilson61:

I don't think it's overkill, not when people catalog DVDs of movies and films here.

Furthermore, in the case I referred to, a novel and a collection of short stories may both be books, but they are not both "novels".

http://www.librarything.com/tag/St.+Theresa+Benedicta
While St Theresa Benedicta and St Edith Stein are probably OK, she is not the only Theresa Benedicta, and I have therefore put up separation suggestions for the name without the St.

>161 jjwilson61: if I know a movie or TV show exists, I won't vote to combine the broad tag with the specific. And with more authors putting out filler material for series, you can't combine broad series tag with specific tags like novel or short story, because they don't mean the same.

Why don't people look at the tag pages before proposing combinations?

One look at the "DeVoto" page would show that it is primarily books by and about people named "DeVoto", nothing to do with "devotionals": http://www.librarything.com/tag/DeVoto#combine

Oh, and a couple of the books tagged "Cristiana" have nothing to do with "Christian": http://www.librarything.com/tag/Cristiana#combine

Same member suggested http://www.librarything.com/tag/santo with saint, but one of the books is by Ron Santo ...

>168 Collectorator:

My question was pretty much rhetorical.

AIUI, in law and in sports, the order of the names is significant:

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Thomas+vs.+Hill
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Hill+v.+Thomas

Though the tag seems applied mainly to science fiction noir, "sf noir" could easily include San Francisco.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/sf+noir

>171 karenb: A quick search of Amazon turns up 2 Akhasic Noir books 'San Francisco Noir' and there is another unrelated photo essay book as well although the only use seems to be against science fiction titles.

Brittain vs Britain

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Brittain
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Britain

Although Brittain is often a mispelling of Britain, that's not always the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittain

Example of a book tagged Brittain that should not be Britain: The Genealogical Study of James Brittain

And the very first book that comes up for "Brittain" is by Vera Brittain

Link to proposal is https://www.librarything.com/tag/Brittain#combine

Fiber art (singular) is not the same as fiber arts (plural)

https://www.librarything.com/tag/fiber+arts

>175 karenb:

I’ve proposed separations. You might want to check that I got them all, though! A couple don’t seem appear, but I get an odd view when I use my iPad for this.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/fiber+arts#combine

I've voted against combining private investigator with private eye, because Private Eye is the title of a British magazine with numerous tie-in publications. This is more obvious in "weighted" view of the private eye tag than the "most often tagged" view.

continentale drift with continential drift - why are we combining two misspellings?

later there is a proposal to combine continental drift with continential drift. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

I voted no because these seem to be done improperly.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/continentale+drift#combine
http://www.librarything.com/tag/continental+drift#combine

>178 neverstopreading: It *might* be a problem if the two misspellings got combined with each other and not with the correct spelling, but if both proposals get approved then all 3 spellings will be combined and there is no problem. I don't think that's a good enough reason to vote no.

>178 neverstopreading: I don't believe the order matters.

>179 norabelle414: It was for that reason that I was originally going to vote undecided, but wouldn't the order of the combination result in "continential drift" being the main tag page?

>180 jjwilson61: I thought the order affected which tag page was the main one. If I'm wrong, I don't have a problem with changing my vote.

>181 neverstopreading: No. Once the tags are combined, whichever one is more popular will win out, no matter what order they were proposed in.

>183 norabelle414: Ok, thanks for that information. I stand corrected! In that case, I don't see any good reason to vote no. I'm changing to yes.

Please help me understand why the order of words doesn't matter, or only matters sometimes?

Words and letters aren't like numbers in arithmetic (where 2 + 3 = 3 + 2). In language, GLBT is not the same thing as LGBT -- and people seem to understand that one case. But why doesn't it stop all of the other proposed tag combinations that are based on the same, flawed assumption?

Current example:
/Art - Mongolia/ is not quite the same thing as /Mongolia - Art/. Both tags were created by one person, and each tag applies to different books. This makes sense to me. Still, someone else decided that the tags were equivalent and should be combined, which puzzles me.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/%252FMongolia+-+art%252F
https://www.librarything.com/tag/%252FArt+-+Mongolia%252F

It is possible that my work as a copy editor, proofreader, and indexer has trained me to be too consistent. Please help me be less confused? Thanks.

Tags are created by ordinary people most of whom are not copy editors, proofreaders, or indexers. So when someone tags with Art - Mongolia that could mean any of a number of different things, and so could Mongolia - Art. What is the difference, and would everyone agree with you? And just because one person uses them for different books it doesn't matter since a tag is used by everyone, not just the first person to add it.

James Dean and Dean James are two different names, even if one of them is a famous actor and some people put his surname first. The pattern (A + B = B + A) doesn't work, and yet combiners still propose the pattern.

For things other than names, some people focus on the art, and some people focus on Mongolia. Why take away the nuance? For that matter, is nuance lost? Why combine things that overlap but aren't the same?

(I was trying to joke about some of my past jobs as being a bad influence on me, but apparently that part didn't come across. My apologies. I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me)

>188 karenb: James Dean and Dean James are two different names, even if one of them is a famous actor and some people put his surname first. The pattern (A + B = B + A) doesn't work, and yet combiners still propose the pattern.

That there exists an example of this being wrong, does not mean that every example of this is wrong. That's why this is a manual thing.

Why take away the nuance?

That's not about specific rules of tag combining; that's about tag combining in general. Any two tags may have some difference, but combining tags lets people looking for books on Mongolian art to find them without racking their head for every single possible combination that someone might have used.

Except that this group is strict to the point of insanity about keeping apart anything that might possibly be used somehow differently ...aside for those occasions that pop up when suddenly some people do want to combine something, that goes against the normal if there's any possible doubt whatsoever...! policy. It's rather boggling, really.

Ya, I don't do tag combinations because the splitters here are a bit too much for me. That there is a different meaning in theory that could one day be used by someone in the future on lt seems reason enough for some splitters to downvote a seemingly perfectly cromulent combination.

"U.S. Acres" is being used for cartoons. "Acres USA" is used for animal husbandry.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/Acres+USA#combine

There are short stories in the Cin Craven series as well as novels:

http://www.librarything.com/tag/series+-+cin+craven#combine

>192 lilithcat: US Acres... Yes, I remember that cartoon in "Garfield and friends." the pig liked to read and what he read would come to life.

>188 karenb: the nuance is only important to a degree. Consider the question of multiple names. Should we combine Anne Hathaway with Anne Hathaway (1556 - 1623) despite there being other Anne Hathaways? What about George Washington with George Washington (President) even though there was a White Sox outfielder by the same name?

I'd say no on the first since both Hathaways are famous, but yes on the second since no one knows about the baseball player.

Ultimately each is a judgment call. The discuss is essential to doing it effectively.

As for Mongolia / Art, that seems like a minor distinction and too subtle of a nuance, such that the whole process becomes irrelevant. I think most people follow their own internal scheme such as SUBJECT - LOCALE or LOCALE- SUBJECT rather than think about the subtle differences in meaning.

Thanks, all, for talking more about combining tags. It's helped, a lot.

I think most people who go to the extent of tagging things so specifically most definitely consider the meaning. Whether that meaning is the same for anyone else, is of course impossible to guess. But I would never believe that they do not consider it.

Joyce Cary was a novelist. Joyce Carey was an actress.

>190 .Monkey.:, >191 JerryMmm: While the people who comment on this thread might be extremely strict, that's not always the case with voting itself. I read this thread thoroughly but often vote in opposition to the people posting here, after considering their arguments. Voting is anonymous so none of them will ever know it was me!

You have the ability to make the tag combination less strict by voting yourself.

>198 norabelle414:

While the people who comment on this thread might be extremely strict . . .

It's the nature of the thread, I think. After all, this is the "why I voted 'no'" thread!

There's another for "Tags to click 'yes' on": http://www.librarything.com/topic/171504 and even one for Undecideds: http://www.librarything.com/topic/139248

The tag "the sabbats" is used for a book of that name, The Sabbats. "sabbats", on the other hand, is used generically.

http://www.librarything.com/tag/sabbats#combine

200 posts. I'm going to create thread number 11.