I Hate The Bloody Metric System

I don't think they should try to force it on Americans. I mean there is one thing I HATE about watching Sci-Fi Movies and reading Sci-Fi books and that is they all talk in Bloody, Freakin' Metrics. Of course it all over the Sci-Fi movies you see on the Sc-Fi Channel, in STTNG, it's Bloody everywhere. If they have to use the Bloody, Stupid Metric System they should at least be kind enough to let people like me know what the English equivalent is in the books, movies and tv shows. Because I do not feel like having to try to figure out what they are talking about everytime they say something in Kilometers, Meters, and the rest of the Metric crap. I am old fashioned and see no reason why they can't just say the same thing for us Americans and any other Countries that still used the old inches, feet, yards and miles system and then the metrics for the rest of the World. That would really make me very happy. Other than that I enjoy watching the Sc-Fi movies and reading the books too. I think my Elelmentary school started to teach us about Metrics back in the 5th or 6th Grade which for me would've been the 1969-70 or 1970-71 School years. As I remember none of my Class mates at the time was too thrilled about learning the Metric Sysytem so I think they just dropped the idea of teaching it to us.

I just hope and pray that it never reaches the point where it's used in Ameican Sports on a regular basis instead of saying it was a Tape Measure Home Run Shot of 530 feet it will be something else and then you won't hear about the QB's Passing for 325 Yards or Running Backs Rushing for 150 Yards in a Game or or 1,500 Yards in a Season. If and when that ever does happen I think I will give up watching Sports altogether. They should just let America and the other Countries that still used the old system alone and not to force it on us.

I expect a lot of people here will disagree with me about the Metric System. Maybe no one else will feel the same way about it that I do. But I just wanted to say that they should do something about mentioning the equivalent so other people can understand what they are talking about. I know there are Metric Tables out there that can explain it to me, however I don't think I should be punished to constantly being forced to go to the Metric Table all the time. Besides what good is the Bloody, Freakin' Metric System, anyway? Just because most of the World works and deals in Metrics?

I don't think it's too much too ask the people in charge to Please make some efforts on their part and change how they Write and Publish books and make the movies and tv shows as well as all of the Documentaries from National Geographic, etc. too with equivalent in inches, feet, yards and miles.

beatles1964

A perfect example of what I am talking about is the labels on the food you buy at the Grocery Stores, they all the total ounces and pounds on the labels as well as the liters or milligrams.

So how hard is it to do what I am asking? Not very hard, of course. And on the movies we buy on DVD's you can choose to see out takes, the movie in several different languages even if you can't speak or understand the language, commentaries and interviews from the Directors and Movie Stars, Games to be played too. So it doesn't seem too hard to me to go ahead and just put the inches, yards, feet and miles in there too.

beatles1964

I am glad to finally get all of this off of my chest because this is something I have been wanting to say for a very long time now. And I feel much better for having said what I did and why I feel so strongly about Hating the Metric System like I do. I guess like anything else in life it's just a personal preference. You either love something or you hate it there is no middle ground.

beatles1964

The world is already quite global; anyone who sells in the international marketplace already builds all their products in metric terms. My company measures the size of the computer equipment it builds in cm and mm - never in inches and feet. It measures the temperature of the equipment in centigrade, not farenheit.

Part of the problem is that you are being a bit too alarmist. American football and baseball will continue to use 'yards' and 'feet' because the size of the playing field is already measured in yards, and there is no real reason to change it. Japan, which uses the metric system, measures its baseball stadiums in feet as is part of the tradition.

Part of the problem is you were never taught how simple conversion really is:

DISTANCE: I also know that a mile is 1.6km. So I round that in my mind to 1.5. I also know a meter is a LITTLE BIT bigger than a yard. (about 10% bigger). The math between is simple. Metres to yards? Add 10% to metres to get yards. 33 meters = about 36 yards. To go from yards to meters, subtract 10% of yards. So, 50 yards is about 45 meters.

TEMPERATURE: is equally simple: I know 25C is about room temperature is about 70F. I know 32F is 0C, I know 37C is body temp: 98.6F, and I know -40F is also -40C. I also know 100C is 212F. Those five points are enough to give me a 'feel' for centigrade that tells me what any temperature is "roughly like"

WEIGHT: is equally simple. A kilogram is about 2.2 pounds. So when I hear kg, I double it, and add a bit more (10% of the double about) and I come to lbs. For example, I hear 45kg, and I go "45*2=90", and add 10% more so 90+9 = 99lb. Backwards, I go "drop 10% of pounds, then half" so 99-10=90, divide by 2 = 45.

LIQUID is very simple. A litre is 5% more than a quart. So, to convert from quarts to liters, I use the same number, and subtract about 5% of the total. Litres to quarts is add 5% to litre amount to get quarts. 100quarts = 100 litres - 5 = 95 litres. 100litres = 105 quarts. Converting from quarts to gallons is already known.

Take two hours and teach yourself these simple conversions. Then you won't suffer such angst about simple measurement systems, and will stop expecting the world to do this conversion for you.

You either love something or you hate it there is no middle ground.

Speaking of hating things, I hate that saying. It's idiotic. Of course there is middle ground! There is almost always middle ground.

Try thinking about the rest of the world however. I live in a country which uses the metric system exclusively, but which is dominated but American cultural imports eg books, movies, TV shows etc. Not a single American show or book or any other product has ever attempted to make their product more convenient for me by giving me the metric equivalent (apart from some sci-fi which uses metric because they have realised that in the distant future it is extremely unlikely that the imperial measurement system will still be in use, and because most academic science publications use metric as standard).

It would seem rather unnatural for a character in a book or movie to use 2 different measurement systems. Most of the time, the exact distance/weight etc is not important to the story anyway. Does it really make much difference to your enjoyment of the story whether the characters drive 300 kms or 300 miles?

The US is one of the last countries to give up the imperial system (in fact, I can't think of another country which hasn't made at least a partial transition - even England has finally given up and come over to the dark side in most instances) and quite frankly, I don't think holding onto it is doing them any good. Every other country has managed the transition. In Australia the transition (which started during my parents' era) is so complete that most people of my generation genuinely have no concept of a mile or a pound or degrees fahrenheit. The longer the almost inevitable transition is put off, the further out of step with the rest of the world the US becomes. Conversion to the metric system would make things a lot easier for everyone, preventing issues as diverse as your TV program problem and Mars orbiters crashing due to incompatible measurement systems.

They should just let America and the other Countries that still used the old system alone and not to force it on us.

By the way, here is the list of the countries that do not use the metric system as their primary, official form of measurement:

Liberia
Myanmar
United States

Liberia has had its troubles, but is ok, but we all know about Myanmar. Proud group we are in, huh?

And let's be quite honest about why the US is still using "Imperial" - because we are big enough and arrogant enough that we think "F*** Y**" to the rest of the world, that we are "big enough that people will have to convert to us" and "tough s*** to the rest of them; deal with it"

Good Lord, I am embarassed and ashamed by the horrible arrogance implicit in our lack of desire to match the rest of the world here.

Oh how I wish I was taught the metric system as a child! I can do conversions, but my brain will forever be in Imperial mode. When I'm told a certain place is 2km away I will never have the immediate "knowing" that comes with having grown up with that kind of measurement.

Good Lord, I am embarrassed and ashamed by the horrible arrogance implicit in our lack of desire to match the rest of the world here.

YES!

Why should I even bother? Like I said I don't want to bother having to figure out all this Bloody Metrics crap every few minutes whenever I come across it in books, movies, tv shows or even a National Geographic or any other documentaries. If I do what you or anyone would suggest to me I will spend more time trying to figure things up and miss what I am trying to enjoy at the time. Which would be a Bloody waste of time on my part. I'm just too set in my ways about some things and the Metric System is one of them, my taste in music as far as what I love to listen to and enjoy and what I think is nothing but crap I have mentioned in other LT Groups elsewhere. I feel strongly about things one way or the other. It's the same way with the Sports Teams I follow and the Sports Teams I love to hate. I see it as a matter of choice to whether or not I want to be bothered trying to figure out Metrics and I chose not to bother to waste my time and effort in doing so. I can't help it if someone disagrees with me or doesn't care for my attitude about metrics.

beatles1964

#9 - My British fiance is trying to impart that instinctual knowledge to me with temperatures in Celsius so I don't have to convert every day I'm there. I definitely regret that I was never taught how to convert in school, either, it might be easier for me now.

I'm also incredibly embarrassed by this US-centric view of the world that most of this country maintains. Everything is so global now that it's appalling.

Hey, it's what I was brought up with and learned in school. If I lived and went to a school system where the Metric System was taught I wouldn't be saying what I am because it is what I would know and what I would've learned in school. And my feelings for the Metric System would be a whole lot different than what they are right now. I know even England finally had to convert but the people were not too happy about it at the time. They didn't go quietly into the night but kicking and screaming about having to convert to the Metric System.

beatles1964

Having been educated in Germany when I was very young, metric was the first thing I learned. When my Dad was transfered back to the states, I learned the English method of measuring. It really isn't a big deal. I found it quite easy to switch back. Perhaps because I learned it as a child, things come back easier. I can still speak German but because I don't speak it as often as I once did, I have forgotten a little. However, I know if I were to go back to visit my cousins and stay for about two weeks it would all come back.
I use to own a MGB and I remember I had to purchase metric tools to be able to do repairs on the car back then.

One of my goals is to study abroad in Japan during my junior year in college. Since they use the metric system over there, I'm trying to become familiar with it so it won't be too much of a shock for me. A new language seems difficult enough.

It doesn't particularly bother me when I read stories that use the Metric system. Usually, the measurements aren't of paramount importance so I can go along reading without feeling lost. If it's that big of a deal, I just type the conversion into google and all is well. I guess I like feeling exposed to new situations/knowledge.

A metre is a metre, but a gallon can be anything, depending on country... sigh.
Anyway, I convert so often I have a conversion tool (that also converts currencies, and functions as a multi-language translation tool as well...).

1 US liquid gallon = 3.785 litres = 0.833 UK gallon = 0.859 dry US gallon...

Anyway, in european football one of the basic measures are... 9.14 metres. Why? Because the basic measure started out as 10 yards, and 10 yards happens to be, surprise surprise, 9.14 metres ;-)

See I knew no one else out there would feel the same way about Metrics that I do. But that's ok too. I didn't expect everyone to jump on the I Hate The Bloody Metric System Bandwagon with me anyway.

beatles1964

Not to alarm you further, but all American scientists already use the metric system for everything they do. Every advance in modern science or medicine was made using the metric system, because it is more intuitive and easier to apply at very small and large scales. I wish more recipes were in metric - then I wouldn't have to figure out how many teaspoons are in a tablespoon and such when I am scaling recipes up and down. But why all the frustration? It takes mere seconds to covert any form of measurement to any other using google.

You know, I have no sense of distance in Metres at all either, I carry a small tape measure around if I need to measure things. But I also have no idea how long a yard is, so if somebody tells me a measurement it gets mentally translated to "a Distance". Thats it, don't ask me to draw a map because it will never be in proportion. So either way it makes no difference to me. Same with weight, I use which ever measurement is given to me with the Kitchen scales, but I have no idea how much a pound or 100g is, would not be able to estimate it by eye, we have a conversion table stuck inside one of the doors in the kitchen. My brother is buying a bear 15cm and I had to check it on a ruler.

>18 jlelliott:
My husband, a quality assurance director and color matcher in a plastics factory, also works exclusively in metric. I can often ask him for quick conversions.

I'm, just glad the NFL never decided to adopt the Metric System as it's source of measurement. Besides saying it's First Down and 9.14 Metres doesn't sound as good as saying it's First and 10. Or 3rd Down and 4 yards to go for a First Down. It just sounds too weird to me thinking about the NFL or any other U.S Sports League adopting the Metric System. I might even deicde to stop watching the NFL altogether if that ever happened. Because I don't want to hear the Football Announcers Broadcast the games using Metric terminology.

beatles1964

If the NFL had adopted the metric system in the 70s when there was a big to-do about the US switching to it, you'd already be used to hearing it.

The only metric I use regularly is on the scale of centimeters and millimeters. In fact, I once went to get my hair cut, and I asked for "about a centimeter off." The barber had never heard of a centimeter. I still don't know how smegging long a kilometer is, and I had to run hundreds of them in high school.

Metric is much easier in mathematical terms, and in multiplication and division. In the scientific world, too. Obviously. But, feet and inches are much more intuitive when measuring a person's height. Come on, who looks at someone and says "Gee you're 1.62 meters, aren't you?" This primate doesn't generally think in decimal points.

Yes, metric makes more sense for certain things (but not temperature- I canfeel the difference between 68 and 70 degrees Fahrenheit, thank you), but we weren't taught to use it properly. It needs to be taught alongside Standard to young children.It wasn't drilled into our heads. Don't blame people for not knowing a system when it was presented in a half-assed manner.

Too bad it's poor litle beatles1964 alone with no one else around who feels the same way I do. Poor little beatles1964. I think maybe I should go somewhere and feel Sorry for myself. Especially since no one even agrees with me. I know I can't be the only one who thinks the way I do otherwise the U.S. would've converted to the Metric System years ago and we wouldn't even be having this discussion like we are right now.

beatles1964

Come on, who looks at someone and says "Gee you're 1.62 meters, aren't you?"

People who know nothing but, or prefer, the metric system.

I'm trying to appease both sides here. In my opinion, metric is very useful for some things, and not for others. The same goes for standard.

Another work-related metric person here. The only - and I mean *only* - area in spacecraft development where non-metric units are allowed is in propulsion, and it's a constant source of trouble. Especially since in this area, some units are metric and some are English - ie, Newtons for small thrusters and lbf for big thrusters and rocket motors.

Metric is logical and converting is pretty easy to pick up. It's really only a matter of practice. Do you have a picture in your head of how much soda is in a 2 liter bottle? Of course you do. How about a 750 ml bottle of wine?

I know the British have a weight system that says for example someone ways 1 Stone and somebody else might weigh 3 Stone. To be honest I don't even know or understand the system. If someone said to me beatles1964 you weigh 1 Stone or 3 Stone or whatever, I wouldn't have the foggiest idea of what they were saying to me. Is Stone a Metric weight as well? If someones does weigh 3 Stone aren't they heavy or overweight?

beatles1964

#23,25
As someone who grew up in both England and Australia, I am relatively comfortable with both measurement systems (though in most cases metric is more intuitive for me as my "native" measurement). I still think of my height primarily in feet and inches but giving my height to my Australian friends in feet will get me nowhere. Most of the time I need to give the centimetres instead. In their case, 1.62 metres (coincidentally, my exact height) has far more meaning than feet or inches ever would. Usually, we would give height estimates in 5cm intervals eg 160-165 cms.

Meanwhile, I wouldn't start feeling too sorry for yourself beatles1964. While they may not be represented here, there are thousands, if not millions, of people who think like you do.

Stone is not a metric unit, and is an excellent example of the oddities of the imperial system. It's 14 pounds. Huh?

There is nothing intuitive about inches and feet. We have a picture in our heads of how big an inch and a foot are. It's simply a matter of getting another picture in our heads.

#28

A stone is not a metric measurement - it's imperial. A stone is equal to 14 pounds.

dreamlikecheese I know that. It's just that I'm not seeing that support here.

beatles1964

When I made jewelry, centimeters and millimeters were vital. After working with, for instance, 2 and 3 and 4 mm beads for hours on end, I can look at something that size and know how big it is. Fractions of inches in that range are just ridiculous.

I wish there was some metric measure between the centimeter and the meter, though - the foot is such a useful measuring length.

They tried to teach us the metric system when I was in elementary school (it was one of those times when they were hoping to switch the country over, as I recall), but because it wasn't used commonly in the US, very few of us ever bothered to remember much about it.

I admit I don't see why it's worth getting worked up about.

Then why don't we use that term over here in the States?

beatles1964

I only started this discussion because I hate to have to put it with it when it would be so much easier and better in my opinion if they did away with metrics in all of the Sci-Fi books, movies, tv shows and documentaries. And just stuck with what most Americans can relate to.

beatles1964

Sci-Fi books, movies, tv shows and documentaries

These things are often created with a global market in mind.

#33

I wish there was some metric measure between the centimeter and the meter, though

But Blue, of course there is! It's called the decimetre and is 100 mm long. I don't think I've ever seen it used, except in French.

Incidentally, I phrased that the way I did (100 mm) because in the science I do I find it much less confusing only to use metres, millimetres and microns -- nearly every botanist has published a red-face moment at some stage through confusing centimetres and millimetres.

Tongue in cheek, OK?
:-)

I just now checked to see how many inches on a feet. Those feet/inches measurements are just not making it into my head... so, one feet is 12 inches? Based on what? Did anyone you knew
And when did 1 millilitre (one thousandth of a litre) become 15.419 drops? And, oh, 15.419.193 drops makes a litre?
;-)
Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

And in UK 1 tablespoon is 4 teaspoons, but in the US it's 3.
And no, the UK and the US tablespoons are not the same - UK tbps is 18.483 ml and the US tbsp is 14.787 ml...

Talk about measuremania.

Now, metric isn't all that easy, because at least here in Sweden we have residual oldies as well - but they're adjusted to the metrics, so one tablespoon is 15 ml, and a teaspoon is 5 ml (and then we have "spice", which is 1 ml).
I just hate when I have to convert US recipes. 29.5 ml, anyone (2 US tbsp)?

As I said, tongue in cheek.

I had never dared say the things some of you said about being US-centric for fear of being sent to the dungeons. But I agree.

Part of the ire is that we're using a standard of measurement that we've used for a long time, and everyone is used to it. Change is difficult, especially on such a massive scale. We do have the 3rd largest population in the world, you know. Add to that that it often feels to some here that the myriad European nations are snickering behind our back and having a little elitist joke at our expense: "Ha ha, look at those dumb Americans!" It saddens and sometimes angers me to see it show up in these forums, especially from fellow compatriots. We're not all stupid here, you know? I read non-fiction for fun, for Crom's sake!

The measuring systems are all arbitrary. There's no such thing as a meter, a foot, a furlong, etc...
Yes, metric is easier for calculations. We've established that. Now stop calling us idiots.

#33/37 - In Sweden we use decimetres (10 centimetres/100 millimetres/0.10 metre) all the time! And yes, in lots of cases it's easiest to stick to millimetres and millilitres... but when we measure furniture-size things we usually use centimetres ;-)

#35 - What Flee said. And I'm thankful for it.
It would be interesting to see the US/world ratio sales for an average SFF book written by an US author...

But they could still think about the American people who like myself don't either like or understand metrics. It would be so much simpler if they thought of us instead of ignoring us altogether. This discussion is going on so fast it's hard too keep up the pace.
It seems every time I turn around there are more postings just when I think I'm caught up with all of them.

beatles1964

#39 - I said it was tongue in cheek. I think this is a case of "colonial" thinking, acting in reverse... there is no one and only correct way to do anything. Only ways that works and ways that don't work. But what works changes as circumstances change, and anyway converting is a hassle. Both ways.

Like I said before, it's a two-way street. I could just as easily be annoyed that American writers don't think of me and the millions like me who are more comfortable with metric when they are writing their books/TV shows etc. But I'm not, because most of the time the exact distance/weight doesn't matter and I understand that it is the author's prerogative to use whichever measurement fits their context best. I cannot, and should not, demand that life be made harder for others to make it easier for me.

monohex that's my point exactly. A lot of people are much more comfortable with our system than trying to learn metrics. It's what we know. And I do agree with you 100% about change being difficult. But some people like me don't want to change and don't think we should change. Let the rest of the World do metrics while we still go by what is tried and true and what everyone knows how to do.

beatles1964

although i have little 'sense' of metric measurements, it does seem to me that it is inevitable that we in the US will come to use it, in time.

i mean face it..our system makes no logical sense and the metric system does. but we just like what we are used to and don't want to change if we do not have too. who does?

but i notice that more and more products are labeled metrically or with both. i find i have an easier time with metric measurement of length and volume...but temperatures...not i can never 'get' those.

I had no problem learning Imperial/Metric conversion in grade school (early 60s). As I got older, I bought all my tools in Metric because it makes much more sense.

Sadly, the U.S. will remain stupid enough to refuse to convert, partly because it'll mean the extinction of the inch-worm. Mountain climbers don't like it because they depend on a good foothold. Landscapers won't be able to work on your yards anymore... It'll mean chaos!

I've seen many places point out that the USA% of global GDP will (of course) go steadily downward as places like China, India, Russia gain more of the global GDP %. As that happens, the people in the USA will see that it is in their best monetary interest to change to metric.

Then we will change.

The only reason the USA is still "Imperial" is because we could get away with it.

As to the point made in #41, the reason they don't bother converting to imperial, beatles1964, is because there isn't enough monetary interest to them to do so. So why should they?

>39 Glassglue:
No one here said that Americans are dumb, but I do think the system of measurement is. I'd heartily rejoice if we switched to metric tomorrow. I hold no sentimental memories of Imperial just because it's what I grew up with.

I will second what fleela is saying.

As an American I am allowed to have my opinions about my country.

I don't believe we are dumb; far from it.

I do believe we are often very arrogant. And part of us not going to metric is arrogance. "Why change? We don't have too. We're so big and important."

I believe lack of using the common measurement system is one thing that separates us Americans from the rest of the world.

As an American, I think that's bad. I think our attitude makes it harder to win in business, to win in culture, etc.

America used to lead in business, lead in respect, lead in love from other countries to us.

All of that helped America be the dominant country in the 20th century. A dominant culture that was, for decades, loved and respected with that dominance. Do you all realize how RARE that is?

Then we squandered our goodwill. We are dominant in culture; but we have lost the love and respect of many, our businesses are losing dominance, and lots of people glee in seeing our downfall. Again - as someone who loves my country, I hate seeing us lose all that.

And yes, even as a child in the 1970s, I felt ashamed of the fact that we wouldn't go to metric. It seemed, and still seems, so gosh darned foolish.

I had a teacher that was fond of saying that centimeters don't exist. Technically, they shouldn't. You don't have centilitres or centigrams.

Metric should really be in factors of 10^3, but centimeters were added because it's more practical.

A millimeter is very small. A centimeter is small. A meter is a yard. A kilometer is less than a mile.

But then to me... An inch is small and a mile takes one minute when I'm driving 60 miles per hour.

Did I mention I'm bad with measurements?

The thing about metric is (as I understand it) you could have centilitres and centigrams.

I'm a life-long American and from a young age I have wished we would just switch to metric. The imperial system makes about as much sense as using hands to measure people.

12 inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, 5280 feet in a mile? The only reason I can even remember how many feet are in a mile is because Denver has a magazine named 5280.

Now, how about 10 millimeters in a centimeter, 100 centimeters in a meter, 1000 meters in a kilometer. Beautiful. Simple. Logical.

The only reason the English to Metric conversions are so messed up is because the English system is so messed up to begin with.

As much as I want to switch to metric, I would also wholeheartedly support the comeback of the cubit as a unit of length.

Just wanted to point out, most Sci-fi books use metric because they are generally about advanced science and scientists use METRIC!

Guys, measure yourself in centimetres instead of inches. It sounds much bigger. :-)

If the Imperial system was good enough for Noah...er Moses... er Jesus....er ...James Dobson, it is good enough for me!

>#56,
That's not an issue for some of us, darrow.

-51, and many other posters: Metric does have a measurement at every factor of 10, not every 10^3! All the prefixes can be used with any unit of measure (length = meter, weight = gram, volume = liter, etc). Here are the most commonly taught prefixes:

10^3 - kilo
10^2 - hecto
10^1 - deca
base - meter, gram, liter, etc
10^-1 - deci
10^-2 - centi
10^-3 - milli

The ease of converting between these (just move the decimal) and the ability to expand the scale up and down is why metric is always used in science, and has been adopted generally by much of the world. It should only take a few minutes to learn the basics of the system, and then you wouldn't have to feel aggrieved any longer. I would think all us LBers would be eager to learn new things anyhow, right?

two words: recreational outrage

59 just felt the need to point out you have milli and centi backwards...

If the metric system is so cool, how come all those "progressive" countries have stuck to the Imperial hour, huh? Sure, they talk the talk, but when it comes to 100-minute hours, 10-hours days, it's all "non!". Pikers.

>#54: Now you're talking! Can we use the ancient Egyptian royal cubit or 'meh'? That way when i get asked "is it much further", i can say "meh".

Here's something that i didn't know before this thread (yes, i went to Wikipedia to look up archaic measurements):

"Stone is the English name of the Chinese unit of mass which is called the shek (石) in Cantonese. One stone equals 120 catty."

Since my (plump) catty is about 6 kilograms, i guess that i weigh about 0.1 stone. Must be my new diet.

>60 kawika: Heh, I like that. Recreational Outrage. So very fitting.

#62 A big reason we don't change timekeeping is that 60 is a wonderfully divisible number and is better than 10.

60 is divisible into 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, 30 or 60 parts - no such number

My darling Nebraskan hubby has made no effort to learn metrics - not because he's arrogant, but because, to be frank, he's bloody lazy and freely admits it. He's been here for 2 years and still doesn't know a metre from a large step. However, he's finding it a bit of a struggle now when going for his NZ theory license test (what he needs to convert his US license into a full one here) - all those kms and metres are throwing him off. He'll learn eventually - it'll just sink in without him even realising it I think. Hope. Because I'm going to be driving about with someone who doesn't understand a kilometre, and other factors of distance.

Hm, Beatles. Well. I don't know what to say really. My blunt ass could get in trouble here, but oh well. I'll apologise beforehand in case any offense is taken, by anyone.

'Let the rest of the World do metrics while we still go by what is tried and true and what everyone knows how to do.'

Are you saying that metrics isn't tried and true?

It is where I'm from.

Or, does my country - and the other 200 something countries that use it - not matter much?

I'm a patriotic gal yanno. I could jump on the 'don't insult my country' bandwagon as fast as you jump on the 'I hate metrics' one. We could have a gladiator match!

American culture pervades my own so I've made a bit of an effort to understand Imperial - makes my life easier.

'I only started this discussion because I hate to have to put it with it when it would be so much easier and better in my opinion if they did away with metrics in all of the Sci-Fi books, movies, tv shows and documentaries. And just stuck with what most Americans can relate to.'

I'm not sure if you're writing in regard to ONLY American creators of such things, or everyone, from anywhere.

If only American - I can only say that people have a right to use whatever system they like within their own creations.

If everyone - do the international writers whose books are released into an American market need to do this too? Because, honestly, not all of these books etc are written by Americans. In fact, many make up their own measurement system that ALL of us have to guess at - in the realm of fantasy that is. But I hardly think that doco makers from other countries are going to say 'oh, hey, let's use Imperial for the benefit of our American audience.'

Why should they?

The biggest thing I think that amazes me is that people think that, under metric, they would be doing all this converting.

You don't.

If you are driving down a highway, and the speed limit is 100kph, and you are 50km away from a town, you know that the town is one half hour away. The unit of measure doesn't even come into play.

Similarly, if you need 300ml of lemon juice for a recipe, and you have only a 250ml bottle, you know you need 50ml more.

And if you ever visit any other country, you soon learn that 25C is comfy, below 18-20 you want a jacket, and around 10 you want a thicker jacket, and 0 or below you are freezing. And at 30 or above, you start getting hot.

People who suggest we would constantly be converting between systems are misinformed at best, or purposely distracting at worst.

>61 readafew: - Thanks, I fixed it. I actually deleted a longer post by accident (doh!) and posted it again in a hurry. I'm hanging my head in shame.

Oh, yes, to a degree. (Hm, I seriously hope you haven't just told me I'm misinformed or purposely distracting, cause I haven't quite suggested that I think Americans would need to constantly convert! Mumble..internet communication + sensitive = unnerved).

Anyway, I have a real, living example sharing the same house as me, though. :)

And sometimes he gets stuck. And rushes to the net to do a conversion. (Very easy, handy conversion tool that, if ever you do need to convert).

It's only the driving that's getting to him. He's also still not used to driving on the left (because we haven't had a car till now so he hasn't driven about much), and he just feels a bit out of sorts. For instance - when I was quizzing him on the theory test some of the questions were things like 'what is the maximum amount of metres you can park away from an intersection' and he just had no clue. He also found it hard to conceptualise whether or not it was the same distance as the American rule. It's unlikely that such an example will ever need to be tested in exact measurements, but it threw him.

The couple of times when we were driving about (rental cars) he's also found it hard to judge speed as he doesn't understand kilometres, and NZ has a lower speed limit than the states. So, he doesn't know if he's going too fast just by the feel of the car. Yes, he can watch the speedo - but not knowing instinctively unnerves him a little. He says he'll be glad when he just 'knows'.

Dear Beatles1964, JPB et al,

I have a modest proposal, why not go back to the British (and Australian)
Pounds/Shillings/Pence currency units?

Long after USA went to a Metric currency, we here in the other colonies
still had:
12 pennies to the shilling
20 shillings to the pound
Oh, should I mention ha'pennies (half) and farthings (quarter) pennies?
And of course the Guinea, one pound one shilling (but this was only used
by the Toffs)

As you can see the basic unit is 240 pennies - a multiple of 60, with all
those attendant advantages.

Unfortunately, it might mean learning all those short cut rules in primary school,
such as what do 18 Widgets at 3 shillings and four pence ha'penny each cost?

In fact that, and all the strange imperial weights and measures, is ALL I seem
to remember from my primary school education. Sorry I also learned the 12 times
table.

Your "umble servant, Guido.

Here's a thruppence for your suggestion, my good man. Now scarper.

How do Americans feel about the French these days? Do we still eat Freedom Fries? I can't remember. But if we do, then it would be supremely unpatriotic to adopt the metric system, because it was created by the French. We should create a new All-American measuring system, using the cubit as its base measure, and then wait for the rest of the world to get with the cubit program. How many cubits does it take to make a Cub Scout?

I'm remembering when I took Chemistry junior year. Our teacher made us do all the conversions in the Metric system and I remember about killing myself trying to cope with 1) the concepts in the first place 2) trying to figure out a mathematical language that I didn't understand.

I find it really funny that everyone's getting so into this discussion (me included). Numbers aren't my thing and there's probably quite a few people like me here.

Oh, and I just found out I'm 176 cm tall ;)

>#72: or:

* 3.803037244 cubits
* 0.962379703 fathoms
* 3.358778626 mehs

or a little over 17 hands.

"I wish there was some metric measure between the centimeter and the meter, though - the foot is such a useful measuring length."

Exactly.

I do prefer imperial units. For some issues despite living in the UK which is mostly metric there are some useful imperial hangovers.

the pound - being more than half kilo. And if I want a half of a pound that's easy. Ever asked for 227g of cheese? Despite it now being illegal to measure cheese in pounds, I get very funny looks if I specify how many gramms I want.

The Pint - we got special EU clearance for this, to retain a traditional volume. 1/2 litre isn't enough!

Please don't call your imperial units 'english' though because they're a different size to English Imperial units!

My Dad has got a pre-WWII Encyclopedia with a full list of imperial units - fathoms and chains of course. But also more odd units. Bushels or corn and wheat are different sizes. Barrels of Herring are different to Barrels of mackrel etc.

Some imperial units are silly though - eigths of an inch?! Any one who uses Allen Keys will always be able to tell the difference between a 3/17ths and a 5/32 ? Which is larger? whereas a 3mm and a 4 mm are pretty obvious.

the pound - being more than half kilo. And if I want a half of a pound that's easy. Ever asked for 227g of cheese? Despite it now being illegal to measure cheese in pounds, I get very funny looks if I specify how many gramms I want.

LOL.
That's much like my point about trying to measure 29.5 ml (two US tablespoons). It's a trouble when you have to convert but when you actually LIVE with a system every recipe etcetera is made to fit the system used for the measuring :-)

And you can't have too much cheese, so what's the trouble with asking for a quarter of a kilo (which is the way we say it) instead of ha'f a pound. You get 23 grams more! ;-)

I think this is hilarious! So much debate about something so insignificant!
It was a hassle with the 2 shilling pieces when I was in London, though. I just look at them and wonder when to use them... and when I did the cashier looked a bit flustered and had to think. So I don't think I'm alone!

In Sweden a pint have become a de facto standard for beer. We now have two standards - 0.4 litre for lager and 0.57 for ale. It works just fine :-)

Britain's measurement system is a mess.

I drive 2 miles to fill up my car with 50 litres of petrol. In the shop I buy a pint of milk and half a dozen eggs. My height is 5ft 10in, I weigh 12 stone and it's cold out, only 17 degrees. My guest bedroom is exactly 10 feet wide but I can only buy carpet 3 metres wide (9.8 feet).

My guest bedroom is exactly 10 feet wide but I can only buy carpet 3 metres wide (9.8 feet).
Why, that is RIDICULOUS! I had no idea the UK used both systems - my last real visit was 20 years ago, not counting this previous weekend which really felt like I transported in and out without never actually touching ground...

And - banning the use of "pounds" (#74) is insane. You either have one system or the other, not two. The reasons should be obvious.

Actually most carpets in the UK are made in 4m widths and some are available in 15 foot (4.56m) so I'm surprised you're having problem with your guest bedroom.

But apart from that I agree with you entirely (both 76 and 75). It is a mess and I couldn't believe this thread when I looked at GD this morning - so much chat about what exactly??

Use whichever units you like/prefer but don't expect everyone else to change what they do because they should likewise be able to do what they prefer....

#53 I fail to see what is so simple. beautiful. and logical about the metric system.

beatles1964

beatles1964, does the inches, feet, yards and miles system appear simple, beautiful, and logical to you?

I see beauty in it, but not simplicity or logic.

I do because I was raised on it and I understand the measurements so to me it is simple, beautiful and logical. Especially since it is compared to the metric system. And in school Math was always my worst subject. I hated Math.

beatles1964

OK, in what way is it logical?

Edited to add...I'm not meaning to be confrontational here; I'm trying to understand a point of view that is not mine.

Like I said it's what I know and was raised up on. We all
know that 3 feet=1 yard; 5,280 feet=1 mile; 12 inches=1 foot; 16 ounces=1 pound. Simple every day measurements like this. For example, if you're movng furniture around and you know for a fact that you need 36 inches which of course is 3 feet of space in order to have the piece of furniture fit into your space you use the tape measure and measure out the 36 inches you need. Or if you're renovating or remodeling a spare bedroom and you know it's 10 X 10 you know it's 10 feet X 10 feet and you work with those measurements to get things done. If you are knocking down a wall to create more space or to open up a room in the house you know for a fact it will create x amount of extra space in feet.

Even on HGTV they talk about adding X amount of extra footage to the house. In Real Estate they talk about the size of the house in square footage NOT the metric equivalent whatever the Bloody Hell that is. Carpenters and Builders use feet to work with. You don't hear them talking in metric terms it is always feet and inches. When a Builder is building your house they charge you so much $$$$ per square footage like I say NOT the Bloody metric equivalent.

beatles1964

And what sort of a word is metric anyway? Shouldn't it have a k at the end? Or an e? It just doesn't look right.

BTW, i just checked my foot and it's 10 inches. No wonder my furniture doesn't fit. At least it's metrick.

Ah well, evidently we must remember for beatles's devotion to beauty we need to speak to him in measures of lines, ells and morgen. (all Imperial measures here!)

The reason why the science uses the metric system is the ease of interconversion. The units have been set up so that:

1 litre (of water density = 1) weighs 1 kg which occupies 1000 cm^3

the imperial equivalent is abit more complex

1 gallon weighs ? pounds? and occupies ?? inches^3

And if I have 1m^3 of water then it will weigh 1000kg

Wheras if I have 1yard^3 there is no easy way of knowing how many stone this will be?

I know nothing about the metric system. I am 55 years old, and never used it. I have a notion of liter due to soda bottles...and a meter is almost the same as 3 feet .. is that right?

My kids were not taught metric, and they are in their thirties.

I wish we would convert to the system. If it was all we had we would learn it. I think its silly to have one system and most of the rest of the world has a different one.

Annoying to me? Not usually. We have the gift of the internet and if I want to know anything badly enough it takes a minute to look it up. There are lots of conversion sites. I have used them on occasion. I keep wondering what the hold up is? baffling..

Not me because I'm hardwired to the Imperial system of weights and measures. Like I say, why bother? Personally for me it's not worth the time nor effort.

I do fine wihtout having to know the metric equivalents of course for what I have already mentioned in my previous posts. It's just a Pet Peeve of mine that irks me to no end. I hope the U.S. never adopts the metric system. I am happy the old way. Some changes are much harder than others for me to accept. Why ruin a perfectly good system that has been used forever in this Country?

beatles1964

Isolationism for the win!

I'm in my late 30's and we were taught the metric system in grade school. We were told it was the wave of the future and the rest of the world supported it and we had to catch up. Then, nothing. In middle and high school I never heard another word about it. In the medical field we use metric.

Anyone know what system the Native Indians use for measurement? They were there first, so we should all use their measurements (well after the prairie dogs, dinasours and stuff, but they probably can't count, so we'll disallow them. And the real firsts were those people in Africa, but their not americans so we'll disallow them too)

I guess Indians much like many other earlier races measured using standardish antaomy. Is an Indian cubit longer or shorter than a foot? Did different tribes have different measurements? What happens when a Sioux tentpole doesn't match with a Apache canvas? How do you interconvert a standard bison to a pile of scalps?

Another example of why I prefer the Imperial system of weights and measurements is if you are using a Recipe Book and Cooking or Baking something that calls for 1 c. of milk; 3/4 c. cocoa; 2 TBSP or 1 tsp you know exactly what the Cook Book Recipe is calling for. I haven't seen any Cook Books that ask for any ingredients in metric weights or measures.

beatles1964

I've been surprised at the number of posts on this subject so far. I never imagined it would get this many posts in such a short period of time. I originally just wanted to vent and express my dislike and hatred for the metric system. Though I wish I would see some people come over to my side of the discussion so I don't feel so alone. Poor little beatles1964.

beatles1964

Some of you might find Andro Linklater's book Measuring America quite interesting. It explains why the US adopted the system it did, and how close it came to adopting another system. If Thomas Jefferson hadn't had more important fish to fry, as well as serendipity being at work, our system might very well have been different. Worth a read if you are interested in this topic. I was fascinated by the explanation of how certain systems of measurement evolved.

#57 Arctic-Stranger: Your Noah/Moses/Jesus comment made me remember this:
A few years ago there was a big hullabaloo about the Bible being translated into Ebonics. Some minister got his underpants in a wad about it, saying, "If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me." (!)

Actually I kind of had the whole King Jimmy is the ONLY Bible debate in the back of my mind as I read this thread. If it was good enough for Jesus....

#95, #96

I think that old legend goes back to people questioning the translation into Latin... this joke is hundreds of years old I believe :D

95, etc

I went to a very expensive, somewhat snobby liberal arts college (this is context).

I was walking out of the student center once when I swear I heard someone say in a non-joking tone of voice, "What, you mean the Bible wasn't written in English??"

I despaired...

What!!! And here I've lived my life thinking it was originally written in swedish!
;-)

92 -
if you don't purchase many cookbooks, or if you don't purchase cookbooks from other countries, you would never see any other measurements.

I collect cookbooks from around the world and have a treasure trove of my grandmother's most beloved hand-written recipes from when she was a girl, and 99% of them are in metric.

When I worked for a small publishing house, we had to stress to authors that any cookbook written for the american audience would have to be re-written in american units, and the recipes would have to be tweaked and re-tested before we could publish it. Many authors decided not to go through the pain of converting a recipe that called for 45 ml of something into the scaled-down and almost entirely rewritten form of '29.5 ml' (thank you busifer for reminding me of that one particular pain) also known as two american tablespoons.

Cookbooks written by americans would naturally use american units; the same as someone from the rest of the world writing in their native units.

(EDIT: Personally, I convert any american cookbook into metric units so that I can simply take my favourite recipes around with me to any country and reproduce the results without trouble.)

99 -
bah! Silly! You know deep down in your heart that everything was first written in French!
;)

I've grown up with centimetres, metres, kilometres, miles, feet and inches (but not yards), ounces, fluid ounces, teaspoons, tablespoons, cups, acres, square metres (but not square feet), squares (for house measurement), millilitres and litres, pints (but not gallons), stones, grams and kilograms.

It seems natural to me to have them all mixed up (British style). Generally we (I...) can convert between them. Some measures, though, have particular domains. Feet and inches are for people's height and things that are longer than a foot, but shorter than a few metres. Pints are only for milk and beer, stones and ounces are only for weighing people, pounds are for weighing food. Squares are definitely only for houses (I don't know how big one is, actually...). Miles are for guessing short distances and running races (but interchangeably with kilometres). Teaspoons, tablespoons and cups are for cooking. Sometimes there are ounces, too, but generally they're only for cocktails. Decimal currency is a must. As with most things, because we have so much American media, we can generally go with American measurements (I think of American gallons - and billions - before I think of English ones).

It is all mixed up here in lil' ole england, which is why grams and ounces don't mean a thing to me untill i get the scales out, centimeters and inches untill i get the ruler out, or miles and Km untill i look at the map. It don't make the blindest bit of difference which unit is said. If I buy fruit and veg it's five peaches or 3 bananas. If I go anywhere its five minutes walk or half an hours drive.

But my favourite measurement is £1 worth of Strawberry bonbons.

I've never understood metrics any more then I understand the english pounds sterling stuff with their money or the canadian dollar which is different from the american dollar

I really don't use measurements all that often. I don't cook all that much. My job (babysitting) has not measurements in it beyond pouring breastmilk out of plastic bags into plastic baby bottles. What is there, is what gets transfered. Baby is happy with how ever much she gets. I pump gas according to what the gas station has. I pay for what I get and then I drive. I know how tall I am in feet and inches and how much I weigh in pounds. Has never occurred to me to resent the fact that someone else might measure me in a different way.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. (I translate that to mean if I am reading something which talks in meters, I need to think in meters and I can go get a meter stick. When in France, try to speak French.)

>104 pollysmith:

Yeah. And what the #3!! is a "Euro"? At least the metric system stays the same relative to the American system, unlike all those weird (i.e., non-U.S.) currencies that keep changing their value.

When I started driving my car got forty rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!

People measure when they cook?

*puts a dash of this, a dash of that...*

Hogshead is a tricky measurement, because what it means is "standard large barrel size for the thing being transported". This is a 'natural' measure, and for beer, it was transported in one type of barrel, and for wine, it was transported in another type of barrel, and both were called 'hogsheads' - even though the wine barrel was 'bigger' - a 'hogshead' was the standard big barrel of whatever it is you are transporting.

The closest thing we have these days are 'small' 'medium' and 'large' sized drinks at a fast food place. You tend to get one of the three, and not worry too much about exactly how much it holds.

(Of course, at some places, the sizes are medium, large, extra large, which sounds silly, but was done because people were USED to 'mediums' being "about this much" - and nobody wanted the 'smalls' anymore, so they cancelled those ) - again, all done so people 'got what they expected'

Measurements are interesting this way... :D

107 lol, reminds me, I was round at my sisters the other day and needed 300g of sugar to make syrup for galab jamuns (instructions on a packet mix, it's sponge cake type dough balls deep fried and soaked in syrup), she realised she doesn't have any kitchen scales! She's been living with her husband for over a year, cooking for themselves and they have never once needed scales because he (yes, he does most of the cooking) uses a handful of this, pinch of that, splash of this, spoonful of that, he has no recipies written down. Just how he was taught. So anyway we just put handfuls of sugar in untill she thought it was right.

re #108: Please indulge me while I take this moment to gripe about coffee shops and their *ridiculous* cup sizing system. Just once I'd like to go into a coffee shop and be able to order a small coffee without the person behind the counter saying, "you mean grande?" (or whatever the hell they've decided to call 'small'). And seriously, in what world does 'grande' translate to 'small'? Ugh!

#109. It's how I cook. Very few recipes actually fail to be edible or even nice, if you don't get the proportions exactly right. Bread - you do need to be a bit careful here, I've found there is only a few % tolerance which is tricky to do by volume, and there are others, but basically as long as you are somewhere close things will work out OK.

#110 scaifea

I don't drink coffee, but I go the coffee shops to check my online stuff now, as I don't have internet at home yet. I order hot chocolates. In describing which size I want, I usually say "large." If I'm questioned, I say "Yeah, the big one." If that doesn't work, I point and say "Uh!" or grunt.

I hate it that most places have eliminated "small" drinks or portions. I frequently want small! I don't want enough sugar water to drown several pigeons.

#112 monohex: LOL - I'll have to try the grunting sometime!
#113 maggie1944: I agree; and even when they do still offer a 'small' size, it tends to be bigger than a 'large' used to be!

Some coffee shops do still provide a small drink - you just have to ask for it specifically. Ask for a small at my local chain and the barista will trot out a coffee in an 8 oz (as opposed to 12 oz) cup. But - this option is NOT on the menu. You have to know to ask.

>111 reading_fox: I don't do any baking. It's probably why I can get away with the "by eye" measurement. On the rare occasion I do something like cookies, yeah, I measure.

I made the mistake of getting a drink at a movie theater recently and I ordered a small because, well, I wanted a small drink.

It has clearly been many years since I got a drink at a movie theater. I was not expecting a drink that, in any other setting, would have been called large if not extra-large...

In some places (some fast food restaurants) you can get a kids size drink, which is pretty small. But when I go to a coffeeshop I order a small or medium drink and to hell with those stupid naming conventions. They know what I mean.

no measuring for me, unless you consider pinch, dab, handful, etc a measurement.

not when baking, cooking etc.

I'm sorry everybody, I just couldn't resist:

The reason metric is used in science fiction is because all science is done in metric.

/shrug

FYI MacD serves Quarterpounders here as well. And they ARE QP sized ;-)

I do use measures when I cook, but I've got a wile eye measure and do it mostly by sight. I can see if something's a pixel off, even if the two things are a screenwitdh apart, so... For bread? Flour quality has a lot to do with it, so I always knead the dough by hand. That way I can feel when I reached the right amount.
And in some cases, even if you don't measure you have to have the relationships between the ingredients right to get a good enough result. And if you're doing an US recipe and don't know that 1 cup is 2.4 decilitres you're cooked.

Why would anyone want a "small" coffee?

Seriously.

Why would anyone want coffee?

Seriously.

I don't drink small coffees. Really. Seriously. But at the movie house, I do not like their excuses for small drinks. They are too big for my arthritic hands to even hold. I have taken to using my big purse, and taking my own drinks with me. Soon, I will take my own popcorn with me too. Stupid capitalists - they don't even know when they are shooting themselves in the foot.

I don't measure when cooking either. But then, I don't use recipes either. My cooking is usually a spur of the moment adventure based upon my whim. It usually works.

Star$$$ coffee sizes perplexed me when I first saw them. Grande? Surely that's mislabelled. That's grande, right? Nope. Riiiiiiiight...
But it's a moot point now. All the Starbucks stores in Canberra (and apparently most of Australia) closed down a few weeks ago. I didn't notice for a week.

In Norway the metric system is used almost exclusively, except for boats which are measured in feet. There are a few local quirks of course as the "mil" which is 10 kilometers. Some tourists confuse it with a mile once in a while and get a longer trip than they planned.
Size markings on clothes can also cause some confusion.

L = liten = small
M = mellomstor = medium
S = stor = large

Always a hit.

Ardagor, I'm reminded of Mozambican taps (well, Maputo, where things sort-of work) which are marked C (caldo = hot) and F (not sure, but cold)!

ETA the key word!

>126 Ardagor: Wow - that's even worse than those darned French who went and made the 'C' on the faucet mean 'hot' instead of 'cold'! ;)

ETA: beat me to it! FYI, the 'F' is for the French 'froid' - cold.

Edited again for being redundant. ;)

ExVivre -- not French in Mozambique; they speak Portuguese!

D'oh! Learn something new every day! :)

#123

*Shakes head in bewilderment*

Are there NO STANDARDS here for decent conversation????

131 > I can handle talking to hyped up junkies but it doesn't mean I want to be ONE! ;)

I've been helping my dad with something at his work, he works in a bathroom shop, and we had to make a list of plumbing pipe parts, and some of them were listed as 22mm by 15mm by 1/2" or 28mm by 3/4" by 28mm, mixing the inches and milimetres together! So i asked my dad and it turns out the inches refered to the screw thread on one side and the mm are something else.

#71 - Some Americans hated the French because they thought they were wrong and we were right. Now some hate the French because they were proven right and we refuse to admit we were wrong, heee heeeeee!

(Freedom Fries! What loser came up with that, anyway?)

I'm fine with Imperial or Metric, but am actually diasppointed that 35 years ago we were TOLD that we were converting and it just never happened!

AND ANOTHER THING!

We were also TOLD that we would be living in domed cities, but that seems to be delayed still. Get craking already, ok? And don't get me started again on jetpacks! Here we are LIVING in the FUTURE, so where is my @#$%&! jetpack!!!?

And the Kitchens of the future you see in all of those old films of what people thought the future would be like. And of course the flying cars too. Imagine the traffic jams up in the sky. And the Police would pull someone over because they were flying too fast in a lane or people trying to car pool in their flying cars. Imagine the accidents you could possibly have with flying cars. Plus the Ray Guns you see in the old Science Fiction Movies of the 50s and 60s. Where are the Giant Monsters too? Like the Ants in THEM or TARANTULA or Attack of the 50 Foot Woman or The Incredible Shirinking Man It seems people will soon be able to become Invisible just like in the movies.

beatles1964

Talk to these guys for jet packs...



http://www.jetpackinternational.com/

Don't really want to raise this thread either but I've just spent an hour trying to convert BTU into MWh. Speaking as a Brit scr*w the Imperial system!

Oh the joys of the British Thermal Unit... lucky you.

I feel lucky for never having heard of it before ;-)

(I subconsciously translated BTU to something like Body Thermal Units, possibly I've read to much SFF...)

It's a lovely imperial unit
"A BTU is defined as the amount of heat required to raise the temperature of one pound of liquid water by one degree Fahrenheit"

so similar to a calorie, and it's conversion to J depends on the temperature of the water so there are apparently variations!

Don't know why it took Barry an hour though, WIKI has all the details you would ever want.

I actually seems to remember they use it as a unit in the first Matrix film. Don't know if I'm correct, though, and have no time to spend on checking my facts... return to work it is!
*sigh*

141 > your right, they did, it was when Morpheus was bring Neo up to speed after being released from the Matrix.

#142 - Thanks. As I remembered, then :-)

In my defence I had worked it out right (and I did use Wiki - I actually specifically have their conversion page saved as a bookmark) some time ago but someone in the factory I'm working in this week tried to tell me that I was a factor of 10^6 out which would have made their energy efficiency about 1 million times worse than anything anywhere else in the group so I had to slog through it all again trying to understand where he had gone wrong and convince myself that I was truly correct - my point being that in a metric world this would have been so much easier.

Thinking about it some of our factories state gas consumption in MWh and some in m³ of Natural gas which is still an "interesting" conversion ;-)

I was just thinking about this thread this afternoon as I was moving a Ton of firewood from my driveway to the woodpile. It's actually 2 m^3 but it's easier to weigh than measure and apparently nobody ever changed the weighbridge. I only had to move it a few metres but, by any yardstick, it was hard work. I'm beat so I'm going to the pub, which is about a kilometre down the road, for a pint of beer.

Now this is an easy one. I buy my wood in France in Steres. One Stere is 1 m^3 and I need about 6 Steres to get me through the winter if it's a bad one.

#145 Sounds like it really weighs on your mind, jim! A pint just SOUNDS better than a half-liter of beer, huh?

146 > you made me think. we measure our wood in cords. a full cord is 4' x 4' x 8' or 128 cubic ft. = 4.47 cubic yards or 3.62 cubic meters. so 7 Steres is just over 2 cord. I think I use between 2-3 cord of wood to help subsidize our heating here on top of 900 gallons of LP gas...

we also have a face cord which is 4' x 8' x ~16" so 3 face cord is one full cord. fun stuff.

I can't fathom why there's been 147 posts and no-one has mentioned perches, rods and poles yet.

Well I'll be jiggered.

I've been living with the metric system for years and still have trouble measuring out the amount of milk to put into a pudding mix (I wing it) the thing that I stumble over is the hours here. When the doctor gives me and appointment at 17:30 I still have to count on my fingers. Jes' dumb I guess.

>149 Sodapop:

Because only a wise-acre would pound at the general chain of thought with such dram-a.

Although it'd be a barrel of laughs if someone did.

Such grammar, hate to peck at all of these puns, but you guys are in league with the devil!

That is such a gross exaggeration with barely an teaspoon of truth in it. I can't fathom where you get such ideas, be careful or you might get stoned...

;)

#147 - That's because a pint is more than half a litre ;-)

You would think in 0.156 kiloposts someone would have a minim of scruples and go against the grain of metric dominance.

I prefer 15.7 Decaposts, it's a pinch less mundane...

i prefer 158000 milliposts! That's quite a, ummm, kilometerstone!

It's been about 15,900 minutes since the start of the thread, so this one gives us a rate of about 10 mposts/min.

When I traveled around Europe in the mid-80s they still had all sorts of currencies, and I found the best way to guage the real price of something was to compare it to coffee.

187 Belgium Francs? That would be.....almost five and half coffees... I think we can afford that.

>160 Arctic-Stranger: Somehow I doubt anyone will be surprised by your conversion system. ;)

Now where did I read that the Big Mac has in all seriousness been used to compare currency values / cost of living between countries?

#162 - We do this in Sweden. Or at least some people do.
I don't. As I've travelled Europe a bit, especially before the Euro, I've learnt to convert between currencies by calculating how much 100 swedish kronor is in /whatever currency/. It's a reasonable baseline for fast calculation of everything between coffees, books, clothes, and hotel rooms.

BTW right now that's US$15.71, or £8.44, or €10.64 or 536 Thai bath /which is why everyone in Sweden goes there for vacation - you can get a good dinner for 250 bath per person, if you don't eat farang food, and in Sweden that is just enough to buy you a caffe latte and a croissant/.

Let's knot digress. Get back on topic.
(That was weak, I know)

So, if I go to Thailand I have to take 250 baths before they'll let me eat dinner? How many do I have to take to get a midnight snack?

>165 LydiaHD: I thought folks went to Thailand and expected the midnight snack to take a bath. *hits submit button and runs*

;-)
OK, so I spelled bad - bhat is the Thai currency, and no, most swedish people going to Thailand are families with kids. For real. We don't have them for dinner eh?!

In retrospect it looks so fun I can't bring myself to edit :D

>162 hfglen: It's The Economist magazine that uses the Big Mac Index. It's primarily used to see if currencies are over or undervalued compared to their official rates. The theory is that it's one of the few things that is comparable between countries and that, sadly, can be bought almost anywhere. Also most of the ingredients are bought fairly locally so it isn't a question of another product, say a car, that is made in one place and then shipped around the world. It isn't supposed to be very academic but it does give some interesting insights. Despite my misgivings I weakened today after a week of Thai food in Bangkok and had a Big Mac meal that at 119 Bhat, about €2.40 suggests to me that the Thai Bhat is indeed undervalued.

Oh and readafew I should have added that our wood comes on top of quite a lot of nuclear power created electricity, although we only have two functioning radiators on the three floors of the house so the wood is still primarily responsible for heating the house through the winter.

Slightly duller than the Thai conversion rate, but more related to the OP:

Lightyears. A standard of SF, is of course a metric measurement.

Is it? How does 9,460,730,472,580.8 km become metric?

Parsecs don't appear to be either. 30.857 petametres.

Or astronomical units: 149,597,870,691 ± 30 metres

Am i missing something?

>170 MrAndrew: "How does 9,460,730,472,580.8 km become metric?"

Dude, you just answered your own question (as long as km are still metric).

I didn't answer in case it was a trick question.

What is a petametre, and why would anybody want to pet a metre, let alone a bloody metre? I have a very nice yardstick, but I have never been tempted to fondle it.

#173 'cos a metre is more cuddly than a yard.
A yard has Royal connections, and no one is allowed to touch a Monarch.
A peta = 10 raised to the 15 power.
Which reminds me, the imperial system would call it 1000 Billion.
Quick tell me how many zeros in an imperial trillion.

Without thinking I said a metre is smaller than a yard, sorry, shows how
often I think in yards. After the olympics where all the athletes seem well over
2 metres tall I did do some conversions. 2 metres is a tad over 6 foot 6 inches.
A "tad" is 2.54 times a "smidgen" which is a "bit" larger that "this much"

>173 LydiaHD: A petameter is similar to a standard meter, but it has a fierce hatred of furs.

#171 No, it's not metric, because a light year CONVERTS to 9,460,730,472,580.8 km

That's like saying 1 inch is 2.54 centimeter, so therefore an inch is metric!

If a light year were metric, it would be something like 1 light year is 10,000,000,000,000 km. It would be a factor of 10.

Yes but the speed of light on which it is based is measured (and derived as the absolute c) in SI units, because that's how scientists do things. You can of course convert it into imperial but it was first measured in metric and is normally quoted in metric.

I suppose technically it's an absolute distance like the height of a mountain and is so irrespective of which units you use, which makes it neither metric nor imperial.

I heard that the USA intends to begin conversion to the metric system by 2010. The first measurement to be introduced will be distance. Miles and feet will be replaced with "US kilometers" and "US meters". One "US kilometer" is equal to 1.609344 "European" kilometers. One "US meter" will be equal to 0.3048 "European" meters.

>#173: no comment (other than to say, you are obviously not a guy).
>#174-175: rofl.

>#176-177: thanks, that's what i meant. Say, how about kelvins? I love that name. All units of measurement should be named like that.

#178 - glad to read that last sentence. I thought you said you loved Kevins.

#179 - He hasn't told you that yet? You should really check out the I Love Kevins, Oh My Yes I Can't Help Myself, OMGOMG group for details.

Dear #178, have you ever heard of the HENRY?

Well, there is a Pascal
There is an Ohm not to mention a Volt.
There used to be an Angstrom
But my favorite is still a candela (the amount of light of a small candle in a dark room)

#178 You have got to be kidding me. The U.S. is going to convert to the Bloody, Freakin' Metric System? I can't believe it? Where did you hear this from? The next thing they'll do is totally ruin American Sports by introducing into the MLB and NFL. If that happens I may give up watching Sports altogether except for the World Series and SuperBowl. I would still watch the World Series but only if my Red Sox or the time comes when the Pirates become a good team again and I would only watch the SuperBowl if my Cowboys were in it or the Dolphins were ever to make it back there again. Other than that I would never watch another World Series or SuperBowl if it does get that far.

beatles1964

183 > Mr. Andrew in 178 was joking...

Thanks for letting me know readafew. Wow, what a relief that is. I took him seriously. It certainly sounded like he was serious to me.

beatles1964

>176 mrgrooism:

Only whole numbers of kilometers are metric?

Following up on #181...

Ah... the henry (a unit of electrical inductance), named for Joseph Henry. I only know about it because of my husband who is an EE. When I was pregnant, we were discussing boy names, and the name we chose was Maxwell Henry (after James Clerk Maxwell and Joseph Henry -- both important contributors to the science of electromagnetism, from what I understand). Otherwise, I would never have known about it. We had girls, of course, and we're done with the creation of minions, so Maxwell Henry does not exist.

>#183-185: are you sure? I mean, i'm pretty certain that i read it in the National Inquirer. They did say that they would dual-announce for football games, eg "The running backs rushed 150 yards (450 American Meters)". Eventually they will shorten it to AMs.

Did anyone else click on the link in #180 and check to see if that was a real group? No?
How embarrassing. At least he didn't rickroll me.

Of course I realized it wasn't a real group...

...after I clicked on it.

PS. #187. Lucky your husband wasn't a Mechanical Engineer. Think of the SLUG

Oh Lord...

A rant about a measurement system? Seriously?

Pffft... I only read up until JPB's reply on #8, and I'd like to say "Well put, sir." Then again, I'm not an American, so of course I do relate.

Oh well, moving along now...

LOL@ Delirium

Don't forget the Smoot.

The US did convert to metric, but it didn't last. As I recall it had to do with the Gas Stations.

They never updated their equipment so it still dispensed in Gallons, but the product was priced in Liters. There were paper signs stuck to the pumps that you had to either double the amount on the dial, or divide (have no idea the relationship between Liters and Gallons - no please don't tell me). People were furious and confused, and they bombarded DC with complaints and it probably didn't last 6 months.

I hate the metric system too, and would love to boycott products that have the metric measurements, AND foreign languages on the box, or inside on the directions. Of course you can't because there would be nothing to buy.

Isn't it illegal to kiloSmoot?

Actually lightyears are neither metric nor Imperial. The distance light travels in a year doesn't care what your distance measure is. Of course it does care about whether you are talking about civil time or sidereal. However most texts will give the metric distance first in their tables of constants and conversions because scientists do use metric almost exclusively. (Actually astronomers have this habit of defining as many things as possible to be equal to 1.)

Personally, I'm one American who thinks we missed the boat when we didn't convert.

151> misskate - that's the one thing I _can_ do. I worked in the US State Department in the 24-hour crisis center (the Watch) - and the _only_ way to keep track of when things were happening was to think in the 24-hour clock. Now I have all my clocks (that I can) set to 24 hours. It's really much easier to figure out times...once you get past the '17:30 is _really_ 5:30 pm' thinking (took me 3 of the 7 years I was on the Watch to get it, though).

On the other hand, while I can convert quite quickly between Celsius and Fahrenheit, miles and kilometers, inches and centimeters - I can't _think_ in metric. It really does require immersion, not (even the quickest) conversion.

beatles1964, you should read War of Honor by David Weber - or at least the part about the baseball game. Speaking of retaining old forms of measurement specifically for sports....
------------------------------------
"It's not a homerun unless it stays between the foul poles when it crosses the outfield wall, Mike," Honor told her, pointing at the yellow and white striped pylons. "That one went foul by at least ten or fifteen feet."

"Feet? Feet?" Henke shot back. "My God, woman! Can't you at least keep track of the distances in this silly sport using measurement units civilized people can recognize?"

"Michelle!" Honor looked at her with the horror normally reserved for someone who stood up in church to announce she'd decided to take up devil worship and that the entire congregation was invited out to her house for a Black Mass and lemonade.

"What?" Henke demanded in a voice whose severity was only slightly undermined by the twinkle in her eyes.

"I suppose I shouldn't have been as shocked as I was," Honor said, more in sorrow than in anger. "After all, I, too, was once even as you, an infidel lost and unaware of how barren my prebaseball existence had truly been. Fortunately, one who had already seen the truth was there to bring me to the light," she added, and waved to the short, wiry auburn-haired man who stood in his green-on-green uniform directly behind her. "Andrew," she said, "would you be kind enough to tell the Commodore what you said to me when I asked you why it was ninety feet between bases instead of twenty-seven and a half meters?"

"What you actually asked, My Lady," Lieutenant Colonel Andrew LaFollett replied in a gravely meticulous tone, "was why we hadn't converted to meters and rounded up to twenty-eight of them between each pair of bases. Actually, you sounded just a bit put out over it, if I recall correctly."

"Whatever," Honor said with a lordly, dismissive wave. "Just tell her what you told me."

"Of course, My Lady," the commander of her personal security detachment agreed, and turned courteously to Henke. "What I said to the Steadholder, Countess Gold Peak," he said, "was 'This is baseball, My Lady!' "

I will try to explain the reason the U.S.A. did not convert over to the metric system in the 70s.
Industry! All of the machines in the factories in this country are calibrated in inches; the dial on a lathe slide is marked in 0.001” and you can not move the slide a millimeter and be correct. If a part is to be cut 2.5 millimeters long, where do you set the dial?
The shaft on a screw cutting machine is measured in threads per inch; you can not make a metric screw on this machine
The politicians in their infinite wisdom said that by 1975 we will be changed over to all metric but they did not ask industry if it could be done. In order to change over to the system, every manufacturing machine in the country would have to be replaced with a metric model. This is a cost that no company can afford and why in Britain today they still use Imperial fasteners alongside metric ones. So, the reason is economics. Who can afford to replace all of their manufacturing equipment at on time? It is happening today in the U.S. but on a small scale. As machines wear out, many people are replacing them with metric machines but this will take years to be a complete changeover.
There, I've said it and it will be the only post I make on this thread.

I'm curious about this: Using 'Imperial' measurements is actually illegal in the UK?

The Queen's Sandringham estate sawmill has changed the way it labels its products after a warning that it was flouting metrication laws.

Norfolk Trading Standards officers have ordered the sawmill to start selling lengths of wood in metres not feet, it has emerged.

Queen's sawmill in metric muddle

Kind of funny that it happened to a business owned by the Queen, kinda scary that you could get dragged into court.

American Cars are already metric.

Metric rules!

How many cubic inches are in a gallon? Aeeeh, wait a minute, get calculator, sweat...

How many cubic centimeters are in a liter? 1000 = 10x10x10

No sweat.

The US fought a war to have freedom from the Brits. The Brits stopped using these crazy units, but the US continues to use "Imperial" units. Does this make sense ?!

#197 It's not illegal to show imperial measurements, it's illegal to not show or sell in metric mesurements. All transactions must be done in metric to comply with the EU system.

ETA found a good article, http://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/press/euromyths/myth50_en.htm
You have to display in metric, but you can also display in ounces.

#195 -Sounds like I'm going to have to pick up War of Honor!!!