Sibyx's April Foolishness

The fascinating info of the day is courtesy of Jenny/Lunacat: In America the big earthmoving machine is called a backhoe, in Great Britain the same machine is named for the inventor.....JCB..... to find out more go to around comment 203.....

Currently Reading Updated Sunday, April 24

Harriet Beecher Stowe, Oldtown Folks
-closing in.
alikazim::Ali Kazim, Fasting for Ramadan
- spiritual read, recommended by a friend
Lois McMaster Bujold Cryoburn
- Miles is in the usual trouble!
Joanna Russ The Female Man sf
- I'll probably start this on Monday

Audiobook: Norman Phillips John Lennon: The Life Bio

STILL ON HOLD: Nathaniel Philbrick Mayflower american history
--(switching from audiobook to print).

April
32. David Mitchell Cloud Atlas F *****
33. Marge Piercy Woman on the Edge of Time. SF ***
34. Baron Wormser, The Road Washes Out in Spring: a poet's memoir of living off the grid NF ****1/2
35. Kate Pullinger The Mistress of Nothing F (Audiobook) ****
36. Meg Wolitzer Uncoupling F ***1/2
37. Margaret Atwood The Year of the Flood
- Sequel to Oryx and Crake ****1/2
38. Francine ProseReading Like a Writer ***** Dangerous reading list!
39. Brian Aldiss Helliconia Summer SF Book 2 of 3. ****

Best of January
Fiction Helen Humphreys The Lost Garden ****1/2
Non F David Grann The Lost City of Z*****

Best of February
Fiction Helen Humphreys The Frozen Thames F *****
Non-F Emma Larkin, Finding George Orwell in Burma ****1/2 NF, travel

Best of March
NF William Kamkwamba The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind *****
F John Cowper Powys A Glastonbury Romance *****

Finished in March
23. William Kamkwamba The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind NF ***** Stars are for the achievement of this inspiring young man.
24. Diane Glancy Stoneheart F ****
25. John A. Greed Glastonbury Tales
26. John Cowper Powys A Glastonbury Romance F *****
27. Ursula LeGuin Always Coming Home SF ***1/2
28. Champlain's Dream David Hackett Fischer *****
A MUST READ to learn about the settling of our neighbor, Canada
29. aldissbrianw::Brian Aldiss Helliconia Spring SF ****
30. Margaret Atwood Oryx and Crake SF *****
31. Outliers Malcolm Gladwell NF **** (audiobook)

abandoned in March : Stephen R. Donaldson The Mirror of her Dreams * 1/2 fantasy, yawn.

Further comments about March: Four five-star reads - a vast improvement in quality over the first two months of March (helps not to be reading a seven volume sp/op). I chose the Kamkwamba as 'best' of, but I could just has easily have chosen the Fischer. I got so much out of both, it was an impossible, even a silly thing to choose, but Wm Kamkwamba's story is just so electrifying! I chose the Powys over the Atwood because in terms of achievement and originality it gave me more, although I Oryx and Crake is, so far, my favorite Atwood read. (Which isn't the end of the story as I have read only three or four!). Most months this is such an clear-cut choice, best of, but not this time!

As for the other reads, they were all either highly original or informative and, at the very least, well written. Only one 3 1/2 star in the bunch, and that was for slightly wavery writing style and occasional content lapses (not bad information, but a bias of the author's). A month of truly excellent reading in several genres. My SF fit appears to have settled in for the duration.

January Reading

1. Kevin J. Anderson Hidden Empire first of seven, space opera (science-lite), enjoyable ***1/2
2. Christopher Isherwood The World in the Evening F ****
3. Mary Ann Shaffer The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society F, ww2, recommended ***3/4
4. Patrick Marnham Wild Mary: A Life of Mary Wesley ****
5. Charles Stross Toast sf/short stories ****
6. David Grann The Lost City of Z adventure *****
7. Helen Humphries The Lost Garden contemp fiction ****1/2
8. Kevin J. Anderson A Forest of Stars space opera ***1/2
9. Jeremy Bernstein Quantum Leaps Science ****
10. Alain de Botton A Week at the Airport NF travel ***3/4
11. Kevin J. Anderson Horizon Storms #3 7 Suns.... space opera ***1/2

February
12. Laura Talbot The Gentlewomen for Virago week F ****
13. Kevin J. Anderson Scattered Suns Book IV Seven Suns Saga - sp/op ***1/2 Defiantly I continue to enjoy this series!
14. Jamie Ford 6006690::The Hotel on the Corner of Bitter and Sweet **** Contemp F.
15. R.F. Treharne 456001::The Glastonbury Legends in tandem w/ A Glastonbury Romance, background ****
16. Emma Larkin Finding George Orwell in Burma Memoir ****1/2
17. Suzette Haden Elgin Native Tongue sf ***
18. Kevin J. Anderson Of Fire and Night Book 5 (of 7) sp/op ***1/2
19. Kevin J. Anderson Metal Swarm Book 6 (of 7) Saga of Seven Suns. sp/op *** 1/2
20. Helen Humphreys The Frozen Thames F *****
21. Kevin J. Anderson The Ashes of Worlds Book 7 (of 7) of the Saga of Seven Suns sp/op ***1/2
22. Jon McGregor So Many Ways to Begin ER F ****

Well how thrilling, I'm first on your new thread! Looking forward to all the exciting info in due course...

Edited because there were too many 'exciting's in one post.

Now just watch. She'll do all her new posting on her old thread and then say, April Fools!"

Nah, LT is where my ocd impulses are given full rein..... however I may spend ALL DAY playing around with setting this up if I'm not careful.

Weather report -- the worst of the snowstorm is passing south of us! We may get a 2-3 inches, less if it melts as it falls. Yay!

Yay, for sure!
"Wm Kamkwamba's story is just so electrifying!" Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! It is too.
Happy to find you early, Lucy.

Hi Lucy!
I like the idea of picking best reads for each month.
I might borrow this idea...

Got about 5-6 inches so far... heavy, heavy (sometimes sleet) snow bending the trees over and playing havoc with our power/satellite tv/internet.
Gotta love island life!

Oh, that's bad, this heavy wet stuff is the worst. Hope you don't lose your power.

Borrow borrow borrow, I'm always doing that!!!!

Our 3-6" of snow has turned into 1-2" of rain, which is fine by me although it's cold and miserable right now. I'm really ready for spring at this point.

Nice shiny new thread!

Lucy, I'm impressed with all your recent reading. I meant to tell you I really enjoyed your review of Outliers. I think the whole question of who succeeds in life and who doesn't is fascinating. Sometimes people I think have what it takes when they're young take a wrong turn somewhere and I'm often puzzled as to why (mostly because I don't know them well probably). My husband also volunteers to counsel people who want to start their own business and he's often amazed by the variety of people he sees. Some have great ideas but can't seem to get them off the ground (something holds them back), others don't have a clue and then there are the rare ones who find out what they need to do, have the ability to do it and get it done. I'm going to look for this book.

ETA: I love the title of this thread.

Thanks Pat (re title). I spend wayyy to long thinking up things like that. There lies the real foolishness!!!

I was kind of surprised at the high Q of my reading too -- Jan and Feb were rife with 3 1/2 star books and then suddenly this great leap forward, and I hadn't even noticed til I stopped to look.

What a lovely thing for Mike to do!

Not foolish (in a bad way) at all! It made me smile when I saw it.

I liked the Malcolm Gladwell review in the last thread!

I have posted a readathon offering for Sat-Sun and I am so full of pride I could burst because I successfully posted a photo for it. It is here

Have your barf bag ready.

Humble thanks Richard.

Oh Sib, that's hilarious. Congrats on the posting.

That picture is great !!

*BIG Grin*
I don't know whether I'll be able to do enough this weekend to justify joining a readathon, but I'll put my name down anyway.

Hi Lucy! Sticking my toe in the door before it gets overwhelmingly active over here. You seem to have had a great month of reading! (wishlisting Kamkwamba's book)

Whew on the snowstorm escape, at least there's season appropriate literature to get by on when nature falls short!

I enjoyed the review of Outliers too, and am so glad you appreciated Oryx and Crake - I thought it was really good too. I've yet to read the more recent Year of the Flood which complements it - have you read that one?

Love the readathon photo - and well done for successfully inserting it!

Glad you love the photo too! I googled 'corgi reading' et voila! Really, you can find just about anything.

I'm glad you liked the Outliers review. Gladwell is quite clever at choosing interesting things to research and write about.

I haven't read Year of the Flood - in fact -- it has to get put on my list, which I will do immediately.

Love the picture! :)

Just tiptoeing in, Lucy. I will try and keep up with you from this point forward. . .

Stasia -- I am so happy you are here again.

I finished Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell and I could just open it up and start all over again. What an extraordinary book! Each segment stand extremely well on its own at about novella length, but the way Mitchell chose to weave them together, creates a work that transcends 'fiction' through pattern, through using time and repetition of types of events and behaviours to illuminate with fearful brilliance what ails us as humans. ***** Wow and a half. He was only a finalist? for the Man Booker? Hunh?

Now I have to get busy with my ER book, I don't like having them lie around and anyhow, my rule is that I can't get another one til I'm done with the one I have on deck. That book is wolitzermeg::Meg Wolitzer's 81733::Uncoupling which looks to be a bit of a romp - A new drama teacher chooses 385462::Lysistrata as the school play (women won't have sex with men to stop war) and well..... Most wonderfully in my (girls only) high school we put on 473216::The Trojan Women and 385462::Lysistrata among others (one classic per year) so I am familiar with it.

>25 sibylline:: I finished Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell and I could just open it up and start all over again.

That's exactly how I felt, Lucy. I will probably ignore my 5-year reread rule for this one!

I'll see you over on the "thon" later today. I'm going to work by butt off this morning (as soon as I catch up with LT) so I can read without guilt tonight and tomorrow.

Delighted that you finished *CA* and were more than delighted with it!
I'm in the last stages of my Regenesis, and I hope that I can polish it off so that I can start on my April list for at least a couple of thon hours!

Lucy, I'm also delighted you enjoyed Cloud Atlas. I'd love to see Mitchell win the Booker someday. Which reminds me, I need to read The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet.

I can't wait to read everything of Mitchell's at this point. Let me know when you are thinking of tackling Jacob -- no hurry -- I'm totally overcommitted at the mo'.

I loved both Cloud Atlas and Jacob de Zoet although they are entirely different books. Jacob is more or less an historical fiction and a very straightforward read more on the lines of his autobiographical novel Black Swan Green, another excellent read. Hmmm, I am apparently a huge Mitchell fan and yes, why hasn't he won the Booker?

Lucy and Laura, I'm pretty sure Mark is going to do a group read of The Thousand Autumns in June if that works for you.

Thanks -- I'm going to make a note of that!

>32 phebj:: oh, that's good to know.

I loved Cloud Atlas too, Lucy, so I am certainly glad to see the book has another fan. I enjoyed it more on my second read of it than I did on my first read, I think.

I can perfectly see why -- I'm guessing there are a host of references and hints and echoing experiences I missed the first time around.....

Must get that "Cloud Atlas" if it knocked your socks off like that. And you finished "A Glastonbury Romance" - I AM impressed. My copy just arrived and barely fit in the mailbox...cripes!

And a big "awwww" for the book reading Corgi.

Tui -- so far CA seems to be 'one of those books' about which there isn't a lot of disagreement, although one person in the LT reviews got quickly fed up with it, I don't think you would.

aGR is really more than a brick, more like a cement block. I think Peggy and I got through it in 2 1/2 months of fairly steady application. It helped to have each other.

#36: I think there are references that I still missed the second time around too, Lucy. Cloud Atlas strikes me as a book that I will get something from every time I read it.

>26 sibylline:: I'll be interested in your reactions to The Uncoupling. I looked at it for a while in the ER list and then went another direction (not a direction with cheese at the end of the tunnel, I might add).

I was somewhat ambivalent. I've seen Lysistrata a few times and, in college days, was peripherally involved with a production of it. Lots of late night dorm discussions (as only 20 years olds who take themselves too seriously can have). A discussion updated for our times would have been interesting if that's what the Wolitzer was. On the other hand, a couple early reviews led me to believe it might be more of a "let's goof on men comedy" that, according to them, was somewhat leaden. That probably wouldn't hold my interest very long.

Since I appreciate your opinions, you shall make an excellent canary in the coal mine! :-D

Edit: typos

Found your new thread! Wow, you hosted a readathon...good for you! :)

Tad -- I know I've read another Wolitzer years ago and that is my concern, I have a lingering memory that it was a bit uneven, a bit heavy-going although it aspired to move more lightly.

Angela -- hosting a readathon was fun, didn't get much reading done, but then I didn't expect to.

I'm here to quote from this delightful book I am reading by the former Maine State Poet, wormserbaron::Baron Wormser (now living here in VT) 2103139::The Road Washes Out in Spring.

"A democracy that believes in each individual's insight and responsibility is an audacious notion. Whenever I sit in a bar and listen to someone after a few beers declare his or her convictions or misadventures (they tend to add up to the same thing), I don't feel that I am that far away from a church. Every soul matters; every soul's opinion matters. It's scary, exhilarating, and appalling."

I love it!

David Mitchell's first two books (Number 9 Dream and ??(can't remember; I need to look it up) were similar to Cloud Atlas in that they were "puzzle" books. His first book after Cloud Atlas was Black Swan Green, a semi-autobiographical coming of age novel. And then of course the recent historical fiction Jacob de Zoet. Number 9 Dream was my first exposure to Mitchell, and I read everything of his since then.

I read an interview with him in the NYT magazine last year, and he seemed to be saying he's going to be writing more along the lines of his last two novels--straightforward novels, rather than playing games with the reader as he did in his first 3 novels.

eta--I looked up his other book and the title is Ghostwritten.

Thank you Deborah, the one next in my queue is Jacob mainly for the reason that we have it already..... he is like Humphreys for me, new to me, but someone whose books I will all read and quickly.

Endless puzzle books would get old, probably, so it shows that he has excellent judgement -- also maybe, as a writer is more confident that the other elements of his novels are absorbing enough.

Oh, and Tad, I started Uncoupling and.... so far I like it..... I am reading a number of books with more dense prose, or complex stories/plots to follow so I have a feeling my judgment might be slightly impaired by the fact that this is, above all, a well-written contemporary novel.... I'm guessing I'm going to put it in my B plus drawer -- a book you would find enjoyable when a little ill, or distracted, on a plane, not up to anything too demanding or bloody, but wanting some insights, some good writing, some fun.

>44 sibylline:: Keep me posted. I was doing a little Googling around about it. Publisher's Weekly called it plodding, which didn't augur well, but some blogs that I generally agree with liked it.

I did find an interesting discussion between a couple of people who had read ARCs. One made the observation that it seemed rather simplistic (summary: men have one track minds and do a lot of whining about lack of sex, hysterical if you're a woman reader but not that profound), the other felt that novel went a bit deeper than that and had something to say about relationships.

So far it's been reasonably even-handed, m and f - but that said, I'm not very far. Not likely to get further today either as it is a busy one.

xoxo

Oh what the heck...I just went ahead and ordered it. :-)

Did you read the previous one? The Ten-Year Nap?

I would have offered you the ER except I know it is a book that will be a good gift to our local library.

Nope, I've never read anything of hers. Don't think twice about the ER.

I'm getting intrigued. The discussions are so all-over-the-place about this book that I'm suspecting you get out what you put in.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, Lucy. I'm not sure how your new thread got away from me but on back on track now.

I am perpetually losing threads..... I try to remember to look down my starred ones reasonably often to see who has hit a high number indicating a new thread. I like changing monthly, so by my method I would lose me all the time......

I'm a ruthless xer, leaving only one page of threads to follow, so new people and new threads are obvious. I'm still reading your thread(s) though I don't comment often. Most of the books are alien to me, and apparently even as compared to other readers, I'm not a chatty person.

This one is for Margaret Atwood fans--I believe there are a good many of those who read this thread.

So I'm going through my books, doing a total reorg of my library, and I came across a book I'd forgotten about, Negotiating with the Dead: A Writer on Writing. You don't have to be a writer to love this book if you're an Atwood fan.

Thank you for that, Becky. I've wishlisted it and I'm going to keep an eye out for it.

#54: I will have to see if my local library has a copy of that one. Thanks for the mention, Becky!

I've barely read a thing the last couple of days, don't know why. Only progress is with the audiobook Mistress of Nothing which is reaching what will be a painful climax (those of you who have read or plan to ready Lady Lucy Duff-Gordon's letters, might want to read this -- it is about her lady's maid and their time in Egypt. I have no idea how fanciful it is, but it is solidly done.

Nature report:
In the big meadow below our house there are several hundred robins and this morning when I came home it looked like a Dr. Seuss book, every twenty feet or so, a male robin sits in his little turf, as far as the eye can see. This is our first full year living in this house so I've never seen this phenom. before. There are so many of them I was convinced they were migrating, but maybe they are actually staking 'good' turf, trying to attract a nice female, I have no idea, but it is an amazing sight (and sound). A few other birds seem to be hanging around either to watch the show or take advantage of something.... crows, a woodpecker, some finch-sized cuties.

Lucy, I have a great "mood" book recommendation for you: Flights of Fancy. I've got it on the sunporch, where I dip in and out of it as I sit and admire the forsythia hedge and the mock cherry tree and the first hints of bloom-spikes on the tulips. It's not about identifying the birds, it's about their place in myth and culture. Charming!

Richard -- FoF looks marvelous, so I've wishlisted it and will be on the look out -- thank you.

Hi, Lucy. Great books! You loved Oryx and Crake too; wonderful read : ). I'm looking forward to reading The Literary Guernsey and Potato Peel Pie Society ... although, admittedly, I find that a ridiculous title for a book!

Hi Lucy. So glad you're seeing real signs of spring. I'm off to check out Flights of Fancy.

ETA: It's already on my WL from when Richard reviewed it last year. Unfortunately, my library doesn't have it so what to do???

> Nancy I've got the next one -- The Year of the Flood in my endless queue too. I was surprised by how much I liked O and C.

I actually dislike that title, Guernsey Potatoes etc-- it's a testament to the book that it has done so well with such an annoying one.

>Pat The forecast is for 73 on Monday. That will be the first time over 70 since OCTOBER, basically. We've had snow on the ground since very early December. I'm guessing a couple of our biggest snowpiles will be around for most of May.

>57 sibylline:. I've barely read a thing the last couple of days, don't know why.

I've pretty much been the same way since about Monday--not much reading going on except for my nightly read before I go to sleep. That's not always a negative, though, IMO. Sometimes it's a good thing to step away a little bit from the reading. I've been fairly productive in a couple of other areas, so I really don't feel so bad about not making too much progress on the books. In fact, I wonder if at some point in time I won't think that reading less than 75 books a year would actually be a good thing. I know, heresy. Heh. Well, I also know that most people here feel that it's not about the numbers; "75 books" is more a metaphor, really, than it is an absolute reality.

During the ten or so years when I was utterly obsessed with Irish Music my book average dropped to around 60-65 from around 120-30. Setting aside all the things I am committed to doing every day, the three main things I am struggling to balance these days are reading (and LT), exercise, and practicing music. The music has suffered the most and I'm kind of alternately heart-broken and philosophical. As you say breaks are good and I was so so so obsessed. And I'm still playing,and I have my great group of music buddies, but that incredible obsessive joy has shifted -- back to books, reading and writing -- which I am just trying to flow with. The bad thing is that I have gotten a bit fatter reading a lot. Music burns up more calories, I guess! Also in Vermont I drive around more and actually walk a little less -- I have to 'decide' to take a walk or whatever, whereas in Philly I did the majority of errands and shopping on foot. It's worth noting!

Flights of Fancy sounds great - I will be adding that one to my wishlist as well. The description reminds me a bit of Spirits of the Wild which I enjoyed.

edited to fix typo

I've been reading, but just not posting or following threads -- am tiptoeing back into doing that now.

glad you are enjoying The Uncoupling. It was my ER win for February, and I'm hoping to get around to it this month. I never made much headway with The Ten-Year Nap, but think it was the subject more than the writing (I can't really remember).

Between Amazon Vine, ER and NetGalley, I have a MASSIVE backlog of ARCs and online ARCs/eBooks to read...

Lucy, Your read-athon was awesome! You did a really fabulous job with it. I read most of the thread and wished I could have joined you. The corgi pics were great! :)

I loved Cloud Atlas so much I gave it 5 stars too - somewhat rare for me. The book really has to earn that ranking. And I, too, wanted to go from the last page back to the first and do it again! Once I got the hang of the book's structure I got more out of it. What a writer!

Mark is having a group read in June for Thousand Autumns. Will you be joining us? Love your insights.

Claudia - Oh, gosh, blush, I got a little silly. I hardly read a thing, but I had fun. I can't wait for the next 'thon, so I can dig in!

1000 in June? -- Oh I think I will! If I don't show up right away remind me. Or maybe there is a wiki thingie already, I'll go look.

Suzanne -- I know you've been working hard, I admire your ability to 'put LT aside' when you need to, but I'm glad to see you back all the same. I like the idea of the Ten Year Nap but my plan is to look at a copy in a library. No, actually I went and read the reviews -

Just checking in on another lovely sunny spring day here in England. How's your snow melt going? Those large numbers of robins are interesting. Our robins are a different species altogether I gather, and they are very territorial and aggressive, so you only tend to see one at a time.

I'm meant to be updating my own thread, but keep avoiding it by visiting other people's instead.

Yes -- ours are thrush family yours are.... smaller.... and not thrushes, I should go look.... Anyhow, yes, our robins flock and are quite sociable, although I suppose not while mating. That was definitely a migrating bunch -- they are pretty much gone, a few of them stayed, and they have moved into smaller groups.

The snow is melting!!!! Hooray! The piles are very nasty-looking, really sludge ice. None of our bulbs, not even the crocus have appeared, but they have at other people's houses in protected places. Actually I'm worried they've all been eaten up!

It's supposed to be over 70 Monday. I probably said that already, I keep saying it over and over like a mantra. To give you some perspective. It hasn't been over 70 since sometime in October.....

Hi Lucy. Your enthusiasm for spring is contagious. I'm waiting for our plum tree, rhodendrens and tulips all to blossom in the view out my window. They're just on the verge.

Mark's group read of The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet is supposed to start June 15th. I haven't checked but he hasn't mentioned setting up the thread yet. He's actually in your neck of the woods this weekend at the Books Off The Night Stand Retreat in Manchester, VT. He said he's going to be posting on LT while he's there.

You are amazing Pat -- I didn't know about BOTNS -- I just read all about it -- what a lovely event!

A plum tree -- that sounds marvelous.

In Reading News I am concentrating hard on finishing the both the Wormser memoir and the Piercy SF. You know how it is, you just suddenly are ready to move on. I've been reading the Piercy fast, because frankly, it's kind of a wooden 'idea'-based book, stilted dialogue and lots of scenarios more or less lifted out of 'your worst social worker/mental institution' nightmare coupled with a too improbable, albeit very pleasant-sounding, future. What carries it is the energy -- oh I need to stop, I'm reviewing it.......and I'm not quite finished!

And by a weird synergy -- Piercy has read Harriet Beecher Stowe -- in the future where 'Connie' visits the Mattapoisset (sp?too lazy to go look) area of coastal Southeastern Mass she and her future friend Luciente go to visit Oldtown!!!!

I hunkered down to finish the Piercy..... don't feel like reviewing it at the moment, too weary. Maybe tomorrow. Now I'm only reading four books at once. tsk tsk, slippage.

Wow, only four!!?? *grin*

I requested the Piercy book from Paperbackswap. That way if I loathe it, so what? I did enjoy a couple of her books that I read in the 80s and 90s.

It's..... a bit of a period piece -- worth reading, quickly, just to capture that flavor. The future is alarmingly like what folks were hoping successful communes would be like. But here I am reviewing it again -- I'm going to SEND you my copy. I'll trot over to your profile now to arrange things.
I'll also post a review and then come back with the link: here

Does this mean, Lucy, that Oldtown is near Mattapoisett? (Maybe I should be asking this question on the Oldtown thread, but you brought it up here.) If so, I wonder where exactly Oldtown is.

It's a made-up name, I think!

Great review, Lucy! Thumb to you!

>76 Fourpawz2:. I read somewhere (sorry, I don't have the reference) that Oldtown was based on her father's boyhood town, Natick, Mass.; time, at the end of the 18th century.

Baron Wormser and his wife, Janet, retreated as young-marrieds to Maine to see if they could live life simply and in harmony with the earth's daily and yearly rhythms, off the grid, and off the map. Yeah, you could say, oh, hippies. But that would be unjust. Wormser says it best himself, "We didn't move to the woods to demonstrate how indifferent we were to materialism; we moved there to see what the life of spirit might be in an undistracted setting." Wormser, while working in private to become a poet, also worked as a librarian for the local high school, his wife worked too and among other things, participated for a time as a Selectperson. They buy a little scrap of land on a road nominally cared for by the town and start their new life. Luckily a guardian angel in the form of a retired Maine carpenter and individual with an open mind and time on his hands surfaces to help and guide them, but that is the way these adventures often go, you give yourself up, and things fall into place. The book alternates between the 'story' of learning to live off the land, and their changing and maturing relationships with the people and the land around them, and Wormser's own growth and development as a poet. Wormser makes an effort not to make it sound too easy, splitting wood by flashlight, running to the outhouse with the trots in January, the endless rounds of tasks and chores, including the (hopeless) quest for the perfect laundromat (Where are those bookstore/cafe/laundromats when you need them?). I loved the thoughtful approach and considered prose, flashes of humor, moments of awe and insight and the unfolding of his passion for poetry, a growing confidence in himself and his ability to call himself a poet. It's a slow and quiet read, not a book to be rushed through and ticked off the list. Anyone interested in 'looking at the world' through the eyes of a developing poet, in what living off the grid is really like, and in a close and lyrical examination of a rural existence is going to love reading The Road Washes Out in Spring. ****1/2 .

Hooray, I'm your first star. Lovely review...except for the trots in January, you made me want to read it.

Your review and Tad's on Woman on the Edge of Time really did sum the book up well. Thumbs for both of you.

The book in #80 is so apropos as a contrast. Did you find yourself drawing parallels between the two as you were reading?

Oh yes I did. In particular there was the contrast of how rigorous and attentive Wormser was with his language. Granted it's a memoir, not a novel, but his respect for words, sentences, paragraphs, how they work together was always always evident. Piercy gave little to none of the attentiveness to the language of her story that she would give to a poem and, as a person who writes fiction, I found that disrespectful of the form. Like, oh, it's a novel, the writing is less important than the story.

Two fabulous reviews Lucy. I've never been much of a Piercy fan but her writing was certainly an important contribution in the 80s and 90s. Thumb for both reviews and I'm adding The Road Washes Out in Spring.

Lucy

I found your thread. I'm way behind and having a difficult time keeping up these last few months. I've starred you and will do better and learning what you are reading.

I note that in January you read Christopher Isherwood The World in the Evening. I recently read A Single Man. It was the first of his books I've read and because his writing is so darn good, I'm going to continue reading his works. The World in the Evening is now on the tbr pile. I checked your review and it is excellent!

Lucy, thumbs on both of your recent reviews. I don't have any interest in reading the Marge Piercy after reading your review and Tad's but I thought you both did a great job of considering what she did well and what didn't work.

The Road Washes Out in Spring is one I will be looking for though. It sounds great and I assume must be very similar to your own experience.

Ours is 'off the grid lite' although when we were younger we did do more of the things he does, but never all at once as the Wormser family did. I am in awe of their commitment to simplicity. We really lean hard on our generator and we have electricity (and therefore a washing machine, vacuuming, refrigerator and freezer, etc) we have mifi, we have all sorts of gewgaws and things that make life easy. -- But they were doing this before solar stuff had gotten as sophisticated as it now is. Before long we'll have solar collecting IN THE PAINT ON YOUR HOUSE and that will be the dawning of a new era. Oh, yeah, I am still optimistic. I'm a sillyhead.

*sigh* Between your and Tad's reviews of the Piercy book, and the extremely unattractive edition that showed up from the library, I'm having trouble even approaching it, this being one that I knew nothing of. Still lethargic from my virus, though--I will get to it sometime this week.

Interestingly, I've subscribed to the Knopf Poetry "Poem a Day" for Poetry Month this month, and on Friday, this poem was sent:

Ideal for Friday evening and ushering in the Sabbath, this poem is classic Marge Piercy, from a new gathering of her work entitled The Hunger Moon: New and Selected Poems, 1980-2010. (The term "Shekinah" in Jewish theology refers to the visible manifestation or indwelling presence of God.)


Wellfleet Shabbat

The hawk eye of the sun slowly shuts.
The breast of the bay is softly feathered
dove grey. The sky is barred like the sand
when the tide trickles out.

The great doors of Shabbat are swinging
open over the ocean, loosing the moon
floating up slow distorted vast, a copper
balloon just sailing free.

The wind slides over the waves, patting
them with its giant hand, and the sea
stretches its muscles in the deep,
purrs and rolls over.

The sweet beeswax candles flicker
and sigh, standing between the phlox
and the roast chicken. The wine shines
its red lantern of joy.

Here on this piney sandspit, the Shekinah
comes on the short strong wings of the seaside
sparrow raising her song and bringing
down the fresh clean night.

Her lack of attention to language in the book is in contrast with her attention to it here.

Thumbs from me too, Lucy. Also memories of not getting off the grid in the 70's. DH and I made a trek to SW N.C. to look for a farm (having read Helen and Scott Nearing and Adele Davis and Louis Bromfield). I still have pictures of the farm we didn't buy, and what a good thing that was! We would have divorced within 6 weeks and I wouldn't be here now - and I love here now!
Even here in the 80's DH rigged a solar water heater for our shower. I think a hurricane dropped a limb on the collector or we might still be using it.

Peggy and I are subscribing to the poem a day too! I know! It is most odd. But it is by no means a book with no 'value' -- the potential of it maybe maddens me more than anything else -- very radical to choose someone like Connie to be your protagonist. Had it been 'real' SF..... but we can't go there.

Lucy, great review of The Road Washes Out in Spring! It made me think of a friend of mine who calls herself "a farmer who is also an artist and a writer", and is trying to live as well as make a living off her small farm. I've known her for a couple of years and she is on the right track but it's been extremely trying, she has been learning as she goes, often on her own while holding on to her idea of sustainabiity and looking for ways to bring community together. Best I stopped here, thank you for introducing Wormser's work, I'll definitely be looking for it.

Thank you. I love finding a great book that no one knows about! It had no review here either, and that makes the act of writing about it feel more meaningful. I admire your friend; it's a hard life. Many people I know here live some aspects of what Wormser lived, growing a lot of their own food, say, or doing without a regular furnace or not bothering to have a dryer, or whatever, but few go as far as he and his wife did and last 24 years!

Another poem of the day subscriber here too. Over the last couple of years it has led me to find some poets I never would have discovered otherwise.

I wish we had moved to the country and had gone off the grid when were younger (and therefore more fit and able to tackle certain things). I try to do as many "home made" things as possible but it's not the same as that experience would have been.

Hey there Lucy!
Great reading, great review - added thumb and WL The Road Washes Out.

Hope spring is finding its way into your neck of the woods. It's so sweet around here the last few days... I even heard an early peeper the other night! But it got cold overnight and haven't heard any since. Still finding ice in the birdbath when I get up. All the great sea and woodsy smells are re-emerging... the bird display was colorful and varied this AM. I DO love spring around here!

You heard a peeper? Oh, I am so envious!!!!!! It's raining really hard here tonight, all to the good, get rid of the last of that snow, puh-leez. Not until the ice is all melted around the pond will we hear those little fellas.
I think you'll love Baron W's book.....

>92 sibylline:. I'm so tough! "not bothering to have a dryer" I haven't had a dryer for 40 years - don't have a dishwasher either. We did get central heat about 5 years ago, but we don't really use it.

>96 LizzieD:: it's kind of non-negotiable where I live in Canada...although the woodstove does a fairly good job. Never use the dryer once the snow goes.

Adding The Road Washes Out in Spring to the BlackHole. Thanks for the review and recommendation, Lucy!

What Stasia said! :)

I'm delighted! And I'm now on Cape Cod for a few days and there are peepers out here and daffodils, oh joy!

On the drive down I finished an audio book:
I listened to Kate Pullinger's novel The Mistress of Nothing. I don't buy audio books but choose them, somewhat randomly, at the local library, a selection that is quirky and limited by what has been donated -- I preface my remarks with this information because I'm not particularly drawn to 'historical' novels and I know I would not have pulled Mistress of Nothing off the bookshelf. However, I liked the reader and found it engaging - the story of a young woman, Sally Naldrett, ladies maid to Lady Lucie Duff-Gordon (there is a later Lucile Duff-Gordon who was a Titanic survivor) who, having TB, has retreated to Luxor in Lower Egypt, where, it is hoped, the dry heat will help her recover. The two women must engage another person to help them. A dragoman, Omar, is engaged and he and Sally, both young and vital and bright people, thrown into constant intimacy, inevitably, fall in love. What happens then is both predictable and unpredictable. I don't know how much of Sally's story is 'true,' to find out I will have to read Lady Duff-Gordon's letters to her husband Alex about her time in Egypt. Her banishment, as Sally puts it, is a kind of afterlife: had she stayed in England she would have surely died quickly, but in Eqypt she gained seven more years but was alone and bitter. For my part, in response to a couple of things said in the reviews, I didn't find Lady Duff-Gordon's response so mysterious, albeit savage and unfair; I don't know how to say it politely, but upper-class employers of that time did feel that not only they had 'rights' over their servants but that they were obliged to 'guide' them as inferiors. I interpreted Lady D-G's rage as an expression of her sense of Sally having betrayed her training and duties, of having acted independently when she had no such right. And that at a yet deeper level, her rage was caused by her own loneliness, helplessness, and dependency on Sally and Omar; a sense of community that felt..... almost as if her family...... had been violated and her 'children' had committed incest. She would see Sally, as the British woman, from the 'superior' culture, as being the one who should have known better. The writing is solid, not poetic, but very much in the character of an intelligent woman of limited education and wide curiosity. The story doesn't have the usual plotted feeling, and I preferred that, to the contrivances of some historical novels.
In any event, I will certainly read Lady Duff-Gordon's letters now, I'm very intrigued, and I can't think of a greater compliment than that to give Kate Pullinger. ****

My next audio book, which I have begun, is John Lennon: The Life by Philip Norman. So far so good.

Great review and a thumb! I have the Lady Duff-Gordon's letters on my PBS wishlist; a very hard to find Virago/Beacon Traveler is the format I want. I'll probably wait for that before committing to a novel, but I think library serendipity worked for you this time, Lucy.

@6
Nah, LT is where my ocd impulses are given full rein..... however I may spend ALL DAY playing around with setting this up if I'm not careful.

I SO relate!!

Great review Lucy and a thumb from me. I left you a message on my thread about the picture of Gail Caldwell. The caption said it was "at the beach on Cape Cod" but didn't say what beach. Hope you have a great time.

Well, I know EXACTLY what beach, Newcomb Hollow. It's a lovely stretch and that is where I go with MY dog to walk, in fact, when I go to the outer beach and if the weather relents, for sure, I will go there while I am here.

I got so excited about that photo I forgot why I am here, which is to report finishing ANOTHER book, my ER book, The Uncoupling by Meg Wolitzer. I can't review it tonight I'm too pooped, but it will be mostly favorable, I'm sure you will all be unable to sleep for the anticipation.

Actually, I am really eager to hear what you thought of The Uncoupling. I've seen it mentioned several times recently and have no idea what it's about. Congratulations on finishing an ER book.

That's pretty freaky about you both recognizing the beach in the picture and actually being there when you recognized it!

I agree, but I love it!

Lucy, I have had The Mistress of Nothing sitting here for over a year unread. Need to blow the dust off of it, prompted by your read.

I haven't figured out yet if I 'hear' a book differently than I read. I have realized that I do not want to 'listen' to very violent books, I've had to quit several, a Neil Gaiman, that Augusten Burroughs 'memoir' (I might have quit that anyway) and more recently Mayflower that I probably could have read as books, but the listening was too intense, too vivid for my febrile imagination. But the Pullinger was very much the right pace - the descriptions of being on the Nile were especially wonderful.

But on to Ms Wolitzer.

I'd like to coin a special phrase to describe books that don't demand a great deal of the reader but are nonetheless full of energy and insights. Wolitzer takes a shortcut to 'set up' the plot, she uses a fantastic element, a magical spell, in fact that seems to be triggered by the choice of the new drama teacher in the New Jersey town of Stellar Heights to put on 385462::Lysistrata, the comedy by Aristophanes in which the women of Athens decide to forswear sex until the men 'come home' from war and peace is restored. (As one of the teen boys points out, how can they forswear sex with men who are away at war??). But that, as Ms Fran Heller, the drama teacher would say, is not the point. The point is that every heterosexual in the town gradually disentangles from their partner, everyone is miserable.
If you leave off discomfort at how 'easy' it is to manipulate the plot with a magical spell, you can enjoy what Wolitzer does marvelously here -- she describes ten (or so) couples, teachers and students in the school -- and how the spell arrives, settles in, and effects them: how they handle it alone and together, cold, puzzled, and hurt. Wolitzer's descriptions of these couples, what sex means to each of them, how it contributes to who they are individually and as couples are delicious and occasionally even better than that. Perhaps my favorite character is the 'perfect' Marissa who ends up literally taking to her bed in protest and who learns, perhaps, the most interesting lesson of all, that sex without passion is pointless (I don't think that's a spoiler). Forster says that the difference between a mediocre, good and great novel lies in how many of the 'Aspects' (plot, story, character, etc) a writer can achieve. For me, Wolitzer's characters, are engaging enough, the story is engaging enough, to carry it. It would be a good book for summer time reading, for a day when you want to be entertained and amused and enlightened just a little bit. But don't expect miracles. The ending is a bit weak, but that is inevitable in a book that never had any plot to unravel, just the 'stories' of each couple or person to reveal. Since I read, above all, for character, I enjoyed it. ***1/2

I'd like to coin a special phrase to describe books that don't demand a great deal of the reader but are nonetheless full of energy and insights.

I like that, a lot. I've never been happy with a term I use, "entertainment read."

hmmm...I usually call those comfort reads or "comforts" because my intelligence isn't insulted but it isn't strained to the max either, which is very comfortable.

Here are two quotes that illustrate what I like about The Uncoupling:

(This about two adult characters in their forties)
"The problem, though, was that they themselves were getting outdated. They just couldn't remain as fluid as they needed to be in order to thrive and embrace the hulking, steaming heap of technology before them. Dory's laptop never seemed up-to-date; it was always too slow. Always, the little colored wheel spun and spun......"

And about adolescents:
"Whether they'd evolved or devolved wasn't clear to her, for they also possessed that astonishing capacity for technology. They were distracted, their neurons pulled apart, and now their brains somehow magnetically repelled Stephen Crane. Though maybe this wasn't the worst thing in the world...."

Loved your review and the quotes, Lucy. I'm going to put The Uncoupling on my library list. I think I've gotten too far away from undemanding books and it's exhausting me.

I think this may fall under the category of "good trash" for me. My comfort reads tend to be rereads. "Trash" sounds pejorative, I know, but if it's not for the ages, it will eventually be trash, won't it?

>108 sibylline: The most interesting lesson of all, that sex without passion is pointless

I remeber one time in CCD, my most awesome priest was explaining to us the questions we have about why things are sins. Well one person asked why passionate kissing was considered a sin. It literally took thirty minutes to explain. Short 5 second answer: Passionate kissing may lead to other, worse sins. Anyway, in the thirty minutes, he explained to us every sexual-related thing about the Catholic Church and said that it's is totally A-OK to have sex, as long as it is with the person who you deeply love and will be with forever. So I totally agree with you about the italized quote above.

Also, he said he that if more people knew that being in heaven is like constantly having sex, more people would come to church, because when having sex, that's when you are the closet to God apparently. He says a lot of "off" things that I'm not sure where they come from, but hey, he's the best priest ever.

Oh how I enjoyed your latest visit, dragon, particularly as I was just reading a book about New Englanders of the early 18th century -- wayyyyy repressed.

Your welcome. It was about time I stopped lurking and reveal myself in the depths of all the threads that I lurk in. Sometimes, I just don't talk enough.

I feel complimented that you de-lurked. It's a tricky business, talking!

I'm here to report that I've read a good deal today between things and am making progress on all fronts -- I'm very into the Atwood The Year of the Flood -- a kind of sequel or companion to Oryx and Crake which for me was a 'breakthrough' Atwood, I really loved it.

I've read a couple of chapters of the Prose on Reading (!) and in Oldtown. All the books I'm reading are excellent!

>117 sibylline: For the first time, after seeing the title Oryx and Crake for many months, I finally looked at it. You know, you can learn a whole lot from the tags itself, and it big, bold letters are is the tag "dystopia", and I'm totally addicted to dystopian books. So I just checked you library and saw your review, and it looks really good.

It IS a good read. I'll be awaiting news of what you think of it. I'm deep into the second one.

I was up early and decided to burrow into Helliconia before I started to forget too much. It is a compelling read -- the culture is very alien, the humans are both like and not like ourselves and Aldiss has made every effort to view the Helliconians with a kind of empathic distance, not an easy feat. But I think it is that bit of distance and ruthlessness that makes it a tougher read. It's really about Helliconia, the PLANET, as a whole entity, which includes the different sentient beings, all of them, not only the 'humans' the ones pretty much identical with ourselves. It's about how the whole place works (or doesn't), so characters, even if reasonably interesting serve this bigger purpose. You can't get too attached to them, in other words. I'm thinking *Dune* has some of that 'big' feeling, but even it is more 'sentimental'.

#117: Unlike most of the people here on LT, I liked The Year of the Flood less than O&C. I will be interested in seeing what you think, Lucy.

#118: I loved Oryx and Crake, Nathan. I hope you enjoy it too.

I haven't posted anything on my own thread for several days -- I've been working, on the road, and not reading so much for a couple of them, but I hope to read a lot this week although there is more traveling around in the offing, up to Montreal to see ma soeur and play some music. My spring session of my Irish music class starts up on Tuesday and that keeps me busy, to be sure.

I'm seriously enjoying everything I'm reading - deep into all four books, but not really at a place to comment on any of them. (You can see what I'm reading up in the first comment.)

Today is hubster's boiday only he has been 'off' sugary things lately and so what to do? Does he still want a cake? You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs? Yah, well try to make a birthday cake w/o sugar!!!

While I was out of town last week our pond completely melted. It's so lovely to see the water moving again -- for a while, after it freezes, the stillness is peaceful, but then it becomes so static!

I read The Year of the Flood quite a while before I got to Oryx and Crake and thought TYOTF was the better book. But I do wonder what I would have thought if I'd read them the other way round. I'd like to reread them closer together one day.

Hi Lucy!
Happy Birthday to hubby - how about strawberry shortcake on warm biscuits?

Music, books, and spring just seem to go together nicely. Don'tcha think?

Have a good trip to Montreal and enjoy your reading! :)

Claudia -- what a dreamy idea! Hmmmmmm I'd have to go find some strawberries though, which is a bit of a challenge, the unfrozen kind, that is.

Yes, I think that often happens -- that one's favorite of some author is the first one you read -- or in this case -- the first one about a particular time and place, since I have read a good bit of other Atwood. That 'fresh' factor is an incalculable one. However -- there are some 'series' I've dug into where I recognize that book 2 or books 4 or whatever is the 'best' in terms of hitting the most 'novel craft' bases.

Hi Lucy, my hubby doesn't eat sugar either and he's accumulated a ton of recipes for cakes that don't use sugar but you have to be willing to use a sugar substitute like Splenda. If that works for you there's a recipe for flourless chocolate cake which is my favorite chocolate cake ever. I'm sure it's available on the internet.

Happy Birthday to your husband, Lucy. And Happy Spring to both of you. Life sounds good for you these days.

My brain cannot compute a dessert without sugar unless it's something natural. I almost never make desserts anymore because I can't be trusted with them but friends swear they make good things with applesauce as a sugar substitute.

Happy Birthday to your DH, Lucy. My niece made sugar-free cupcakes for her boyfriend and I thought they were yummy. I'm going to look for Bonnie's recipe for flourless chocolate cake for my gluten-free friend. Inviting people over to eat is getting trickier all the time!

Enjoy your busy spring! I guess there is more to life than reading after all. ;-)

Just trying to catch up.. hope you found a great dessert/ cake or substitute for the special day :)

You are all so darling! I settled on a ginger cake that has almost no sugar, I have this ancient Boston Cooking School book that barely tells you anything beyond the ingredients and order of putting things together (cook until done,) but full of funny old things anyhow he was ok with that and then I wanted to do this very thin maple glaze sort of thing,to minimize sugar usage but it didn't quite turn out, but I think will taste all right anyway. The cake didn't rise as much as i would have preferred, so it looks more like a giant cookie, or, maybe a giant ginger pancake, but well, it's a little more cakey looking than that, really, but I nibbled a corner and it tastes good. EXTREMELY gingery - little pieces of ginger, not powder. I'm terrible at really following recipes exactly and I usually pay the price, but I've gotten quite handy at 'rescuing' things and they usually taste all right, mostly don't look quite right....... but that is the homemade touch, right??????

I put on a good show of there being more to life than reading...... but... don't be fooled!

Good job Lucy! If your hubby likes it, that's all that counts! Ginger and maple sound like a yummy combo... mmm
I know what you mean about those old cookbooks. I'm thinkin' desserts didn't look so beautiful 150 years ago. But who really cared if it tasted good?

A giant ginger pancake with a maple glaze sounds fantastic!

It was/is, amazingly, delicious! I toasted some sliced almonds too and sprinkled them on top of the maple glaze and I have to say, that was the making of it -- it gave it the gourmet 'I meant it to look like this all along' appearance -- can't explain.

I am determined to finish The Year of the Flood this evening and I am so close.

Done!
The Year of the Flood. I can fully understand why, after inventing a marvelous post-apoocalptic world, the creator would wish to explore it more fully. Oryx and Crake was a five star novel (for me), crafted brilliantly and tightly and with a complex and sympathetic main character both in the center of the vortex and yet untouched by it. The Year of the Flood has a looser construction and is less focused, following the stories of two women, Toby and Ren, both of whom appeared briefly in the first novel. Doesn’t make it less interesting, though, because the two characters are sufficiently different from each other (and thus in their responses to what happens) and absorbing and because this world of Atwood’s is big enough and rich enough to warrant more exploration. Both Ren and Toby happen to be in isolation as the plague hits, and having both spent time in the group 'God's Gardeners' where Adam One, the visionary leader, anticipated a 'waterless flood,' they both had been prepared for such an eventuality, (not that either had really believed it) in every way, from knowing what wild plants to eat, to skinning a rabbit, to basic self-defense. With this second book, the setting in this 'city' somewhere in the 'east', felt slightly more claustrophobic -- it annoyed me that I couldn't identify it, when people did go off to other parts of the country -- and that the sea was so close by. What sea? This tickled in the first book, and bothered a bit in the second. I did however find that the mix of chaos and order, of venality gone berserk versus the goodness of the gardeners, the deeper look at this society continued to be witty and scary and illuminating. The question of whether humans, as we know them will survive, remains the question.
I would regard the two novels as one book, essentially, to be read together. Preferably Oryx and Crake first, though I'm not sure it actually matters much. You'll probably like the first one you read the best. ****1/2

You seem to read a lot of this post-apocalyptic, dystopian stuff. At the end of your review you say that the question is, will humans survive? Do you find, generally, that these books tend to be more, or less, hopeful when it comes to that question? Is there a particular agenda behind these types of books? I guess what I'm asking is, what's the point that these writers are trying to make? Also, what do you think is behind the extreme popularity of these kinds of books?

I've been reading the Fannie Flagg threesome that are all set in small-town, middle-of-the-country America. Her books are like an antidote to bad news, to everything that's wrong with the modern world. However, at the same time, her books point out that there are also a lot of things right with people. Are these dystopian books written as some sort of "corrective" to what is going on in the world today? Do they also have positive take-aways? Do you finish them feeling uplifted, feeling better about the human race? Or worse? I'm just wondering. You say the deeper look at this society is "scary and illuminating." Maybe people read these for the same reason people read ghost stories?

What marvelous questions! I didn't read any dystopian stuff before LT, actually, somehow I've gotten interested as part of my general SF/fantasy craze.....and suggestions, reading groups and serendipity have sort of led me into it the way someone might branch out from Irish music to Old Time, to Bluegrass or something......

Some dystopic writers definitely have a agenda, feminist, environmental or what have you, but others, I suspect, are more drawn to the 'what if' -- which is the question underlying the whole genre of SF and also fantasy (as in, what if there really is magic). So 'what if human greed allowed corporations to take over all government functions, for profit' or 'what if due to infertility problems women could not longer conceive or carry to term or even birth healthy babies reliably' or 'what if we don't have a clue what tinkering with genomes might do?' Once you ask a question with a 'what if' in it, the sky's the limit, in terms of how you respond, and I think that is what draws people both to write and read in the genre.

As for a positive take-away -- hmmm -- I haven't read enough in the genre, and maybe never will, as I am sure the fit will pass, but I would say...... the answer, by the end of the books I've read is mixed. Often the writer has a surprising take -- that 'civilization' isn't all it's cracked up to be, that there are contradictions between what must be done to survive and behaving ethically that can't be resolved comfortably, that kind of thing.

I suppose the fundamental question is whether or not it is a valid exercise to imagine possible futures. I guess the idea to even perform such an exercise started in the enlightenment -as novel-writing (I'm thinking of Gulliver, for ex. who visits a number of unusual places and 'societies') and a certain kind of imaginative speculation got underway? I don't know if anyone wrote anything any earlier than that I'm not saying Gulliver is dystopic, btw, it's not an exploration of the future, just that it is highly imaginative and has that 'what if' quality about it. Voltaire's Candide has that quality as well. And I suppose Rousseau. I have no idea, for ex, who wrote the first 'official' dystopic novel and why they wrote it ... although The Time Machine which goes right to the very end of life on earth might arguably be it???

I'll like to add things to these questions. I might've repeated, though.

Before LT, I've read few dystopian books. But I love the concept of societies going bad. Then when I read Fahrenheit 451 in February, I read a bunch of different dystopian books. I think the point of the writing is to describe how society is, or may become if we keep living the way we do. Some dystopian books, I would actually consider utopian up to a certain extent. There’s this book called Brave New World, and it could be a utopian book. Everyone’s happy, and nothing goes wrong. But the people who run the country, run it in a total…ummm…immoral way. The citizens have no parents. Seriously. They were pretty much made in test tubes. And the word “parent”, is pretty much like the equivalent of “pornography”. And there is no school pretty much, because learning basically causes unhappiness if I remember right. There are many classes they take instead, the worst is sex class. Not kidding. For children like 6-9. It’s horrible. And when they’re teenagers and adults, it’s much, much worse. The title of the book fits in nicely right about here. It’s actually kind of scary if you think about it.

Another note is that basically the point of Greek myths is to teach people what will happen if someone would do this in real life. It may help “correct” people that way too. So I’m thinking my ideal dystopian books are “what if” factors, and the more unusual the what ifs are, the scarier it is what humans may be.

OK, I think I’ve talked enough.

All very well said, Nathan, and very good point, that last one. I really like that connection to the myths -- I hadn't thought of it that way at all, but that makes perfect sense to me.

Wasn't really my connection, it was just somebody else's and I just copied it, but that's what some Greek Historians believe.

Fascinating discussion. I like a good dystopian novel every now and again and I think I understand at least part of the appeal for a writer. I would venture to say that the writer who chooses to create a dystopia generally IS trying to say something, to advance an agenda, in addition to telling a good story. The message can usually be summed up thusly: if we, as a society, continue to follow this particular path the consequences will likely include these particular problems. The classic ones - The Time Machine, 1984, Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Lord of the Flies, Fahrenheit 451 - can really be seen as fables and thus are deeply concerned with behavior and morality. I would venture to guess that the recent growth in dystopian lit can be attributed, in part, to the acceleration in technological development over the last half century. It no longer takes a hundred or fifty or even twenty years for us to see both the benefits and costs inherent in major societal or technological shifts. Progress, of any kind, will always have unintended consequences. (For every action there is an opposite and often unequal reaction.) Sure, you can have the mobility, freedom and comfort of automobiles but then you're also going to have to deal with global warming and holes in the ozone layer. You can have a device in your pocket that will allow you to keep in touch with anyone anywhere in the world but how is that going to impact the conversation you're currently having with the person standing in front of you? I think that most authors of dystopian fiction would agree that part of our responsibility as a society is to constantly weigh the costs against the benefits. And there the similarities probably end. Dystopia is a servant that serves many masters and it's often not easy to determine exactly what we're being cautioned against.
It's entirely possible, too, that writers are drawn to dystopian fiction because of the inherent need for conflict in fiction and,in a dystopian world, conflict is heightened to epic proportions. By pitting the protagonist against, not just another individual, but against an entire society one raises the stakes considerably. Of course, one need not create a dystopia in order to do this. Huck's decision not to turn in Jim, puts him in conflict with an entire society and thus raising the stakes for all concerned. However, unlike Huckleberry Finn, most dystopian literature is meant to be seen as allegorical rather than realistic and this is the other reason why I think authors are drawn to the genre. Allegory, which, unlike satire, seeks not just to ridicule but to redeem while revealing error, allows for the exploration of controversial subjects at a remove. The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe is an obvious allegory but is it not also dystopian in that the Narnia the children discover is meant to be seen as a failed society?
Having said all that, I dare say that most dystopian novelists, as a group, would categorically reject the notion that they even are a group operating with a single agenda. To overstate the obvious, writers work in isolation and it then falls to readers and critics to lump their work into categories and groups and assign motives to the creation of the work. The best dystopian novels - The Time Machine, 1984, Animal Farm, Fahrenheit 451 - are those which still provide enjoyment despite their obvious agenda.

Ah. Thank you for making the effort, TK. Fable. Allegory. And the drama of a clearcut conflict. And the pondering of possible consequences.....

The hardest thing, I think, in dystopic literature is to create characters you can care about, they tend to be flat, to 'serve' the greater story. The main character in Earth Abides was roundish (not quite there, but recognizably human) but Jimmy in O&C and to some degree Ren and Toby in YoF are round enough to affect the reader, get under the skin.

Thanks for the thoughtful answers. I guess this kind of lit just isn't my thing. Of the ones on the list I've read, I can't say that I would be interested in reading any of them again. I found The Handmaid's Tale to be incredibly depressing. Honestly, I don't remember whether or not I finished it. The others: Animal Farm, 1984, Brave New World, The Trial--just not for me. I guess Fahrenheit 451 was OK--probably the one I liked best of the lot. With the exception of the Atwood, I haven't read anything in this genre that's current--I read the others in high school. Why they inflict this stuff on high school students, I don't know. Maybe to tap into their natural--what--cynicism?--or maybe their natural cynical pose. These books all seem, well, grim and also, in many ways, hopeless. Don't you just get awfully depressed about the human race, reading this stuff?

Has anyone read Bend Sinister? How about On the Beach? The Road? I read On the Beach a million years ago.

I read On the Beach in my late teens. Haven't tackled Bend Sinister on the notion that it isn't one of 'the best' Nabokov's, why I think this, I don't know as I have loved all others of his.

It's good you mentioned The Road -- for me that is a book that goes right off the deep end - All of the other books we've discussed have a point or purpose and many of them even have a good deal of hope in them, but I couldn't glean much in that way from The Road. I tried very hard to read it, just could not get a toehold anywhere. I don't get McCarthy, however, haven't gotten taken up by anything of his.

I probably did my most fervent reading about ethical/social matters in my mid and late teens, lots of passion and energy and awakening going on there, lots of worry and questions too, so having intense discussions is good, gets stuff out. I see dau and friends doing this, one minute they are arguing hair cuts and the next they are discussing, I don't know, the right to demonstrate or something. Teens are very alive to oppression by a ruling elite, eh?????

Many novels are utterly depressing and gloomy about human nature not just dystopic ones.... and I think (but I'm no expert) many dystopic novels start at the nadir and work towards something more hopeful. I do prefer, in general, novels with the worst thing already over and done with, or very quickly out in the open, so that the rest of the novel is about working it out. The novels I can't read are the ones where everyone you've come to love or care about is going to die miserably by the end. I don't care if it's fiction, non-fiction, future, past, present. I can't manage that. Camus just about did me in, even in French, I couldn't bear it. And even with the message of redemption in the last moments of life..... just let poor old Meursault out to sit smoking on his balcony looking at the world passing by..... that's living.

>141 labwriter: I want to join in again and anwer the question of if I get depressed about the human race question.

I don't really, because it's true. Dead true. In the book Lord of the Flies, it doesn't show what mankind might be, it shows what mankind is right now. I think that the true message of the book is that humans are essentially evil. And I can confirm that by saying that if humans are meant to love, there would be world peace from the moment of our existence to the moment right now. I'm saying that we humans are meant to be ourselves, and that is some sort of dark side. Because in all reality, isn't it easier to do bad things than good? I mean, just to me, I love those kind of things.

Just to pick a nit with TK and his truly thoughtful analysis of allegory in dystopia... My preference is for satire which does juxtapose current practice with a norm for rational behavior. That is definitely what makes the humor, but I think it also provides an opportunity for redemption. With both forms, it's removing present problems from present circumstances into a new story that allows the reader to think without his usual knee-jerk reactions. Or at least, I think that this is the writer's hope for his work. (Oh. Rereading TK, I see that he said this.)

This discussion reminded me of an article I recently read in an old New Yorker (June 14, 2010) about dystopian literature for young adults (http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2010/06/14/100614crat_atlarge_miller#ixzz1Jz37usjt)

Here are some quotes from it:

For young readers, dystopia isn’t a future to be averted; it’s a version of what’s already happening in the world they inhabit.

The article says high school is a dystopia. In talking about Suzanne Collins’ The Hunger Games, the author of the article says:

If . . . you consider the games as a fever-dream allegory of the adolescent social experience, they become perfectly intelligible. Adults dump teen-agers into the viper pit of high school, spouting a lot of sentimental drivel about what a wonderful stage of life it’s supposed to be. The rules are arbitrary, unfathomable, and subject to sudden change. A brutal social hierarchy prevails, with the rich, the good-looking, and the athletic lording their advantages over everyone else. To survive you have to be totally fake. Adults don’t seem to understand how high the stakes are; your whole life could be over, and they act like it’s just some “phase”! Everyone’s always watching you, scrutinizing your clothes or your friends and obsessing over whether you’re having sex or taking drugs or getting good enough grades, but no one cares who you really are or how you really feel about anything.

>134 labwriter:: Is there a particular agenda behind these types of books? I guess what I'm asking is, what's the point that these writers are trying to make?

I guess I'm somewhat drawn to TK's final comments in >139 TomKitten: about dystopic authors rejecting that they are a single collective.

Some writers are clearly trying to warn of some trend they see in society and use a dystopia to bypass our defenses about conspiracy theories, etc. I'd put books social commentary books like Nineteen Eighty-Four or Anthem into that general type. I guess books saying, "You fools!" about the consequences of unrestrained technology (Oryx and Crake or The Windup Girl) are in that vein, also.

Maybe these are the most common types, but I do think there are others where "warning" isn't really the goal.

Malevil or Lord of the Flies strike me as simply trying to explore what "real" human nature is when you remove a lot of the veneers civilization has put on us.

I think others just find it a naturally eventful and dramatic setting for whatever tale they want to tell. I don't think William Gibson particularly predicts we'll end up in the society of Neuromancer, but it does give him a lot of scope.

There's another category, The Stand comes to mind, that seems to be closely akin to horror books—let's scare you a bit, let you purge a bit of adrenaline and, when it's all over, let you be glad you're in your own world. These books never give me the sense that they are delivering a message or predicting the future.

Honestly, I think a lot of the recent rise in popularity is not only due to discomfort and fear about how quickly our society is changing but, also...and I guess this is really the flip side of the same coin...because it's comforting to know that we're not that bad, yet. You read one of these and feel, "Now I know what to watch out for so that it doesn't happen."

>143 DragonFreak:. I'm saying that we humans are meant to be ourselves, and that is some sort of dark side.

Dragon, it sounds like you're going in the direction of saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that humans are more complicated than just good or evil--that it's not a question of either/or, but instead it's both/and.

For myself, that sort of double-sidedness makes sense to me when thinking about human nature. I firmly believe in the idea expressed in the concept of yin and yang, the interconnectedness of seemingly opposite forces in the universe. Yin/yang isn't about moral judgment--it's more about balance, each force complementing the other.

>147 labwriter: More or less, yes. Now that you mention it, I guess that's what I tried to say. I say a bunch of things that sort of makes sense, and I guess you pretty much summerized that up in an easier form. Maybe the people who came of with yin and yang had something there...

>145 phebj:. What a great article! Thanks. For someone like me who knows zero about current dystopian lit, it helps to explain a lot.

>146 TadAD:. The "naturally eventful and dramatic setting" angle makes sense to me. So does the sense of "discomfort and fear" about what we're going through in society today--rapid, rapid change that it's so very hard (impossible, it seems to me much of the time) to keep up with. Might there also be a sense for the writer/reader in this genre of "controlling" with fiction what seems to be so out of control in real life? I think that would appeal to many people, particularly a teen audience.

A couple of classics that haven't been mentioned are Walter Miller's A Canticle for Leibowitz and Ursula Le Guin's The Dispossessed. I was blown away by Canticle in my teens in the middle of the Cold War--I don't know how well it stands up today, but it was fresh and exciting and scary then. Le Guin's book has always been a bit too didactic for me to be great story, but it is definitely a worthy look at the structure of governments and the human condition.

#146 it's comforting to know that we're not that bad, yet. You read one of these and feel, "Now I know what to watch out for so that it doesn't happen."

I haven't read alot of dystopian literature but of the ones I have recently that's definitely how I feel afterwards. Safe and secure because what's happened in the book isn't happening now. I definitely feel a barrier between the world of the book and my life which is comforting.

#149 Might there also be a sense for the writer/reader in this genre of "controlling" with fiction what seems to be so out of control in real life? I think that would appeal to many people, particularly a teen audience.

I think that makes alot of sense about why these books would be so appealing.

I also wonder what it must be like for teens today who are growing up in a post 9/11 world. I felt pretty secure and protected being a teen in the late 60s/early 70s in terms of worrying about this country being attacked.

#147 I firmly believe in the idea expressed in the concept of yin and yang, the interconnectedness of seemingly opposite forces in the universe. Yin/yang isn't about moral judgment--it's more about balance, each force complementing the other.

Becky, I loved this comment.

#150

Personally, I didn't think The Canticle of Leibowitz stood up to the tests of time very well at all. Something along the lines of 1984 stands up much better for the younger generation now (speaking as a twenty-five year old).

I certainly feel the intense pull of dystopian and post-apocalyptic fiction, and have done ever since I had my world turned upside-down on me as a child. That only increased in the post 9/11 world. I was fifteen, and remember coming home from school and watching it happen, and taking the day off when Iraq was invaded.

There is certainly a sense of 'Utopia' that reading this type of fiction brings: that even though so many small elements of our society now are shown, they are magnified to such an extent that the problems here feel smaller, and more controllable. However, I do feel a sense, as I have grown up and watched the world change so dramatically, that I now fear much more where we are headed, and find myself wondering whether to have children at all, for fear of what they might face, and I think dystopian novels and movies play into those fears that are already created by day to day life.

When I recently read The Hunger Games, I saw so much of the anger, the confusion and the back stabbing manipulation I felt as a teenager growing up, and I'm sure it is worse now in the 10 years since I was there. The growing number of teenager fiction of this genre intrigues me, because I know I desperately related to it at that age. There was also the sense that everything I was feeling and watching around me wasn't just my imagination, or a fault of mine, but must be at least partly 'real' because those ideas were being projected into the books.

However, I also know that there is a remarkable amount of hope to be found in even the most desperate of this genre. And that is: someone survives. It might not be you, or me, or my children or your children, but someone does. And maybe that is part of it. So much is out of control in this life, particularly for teenagers. I know it was worse for me than the previous generation, and it is probably worse now. We watched people die, we saw Hollywood idols go off the rails, we saw bombs go off in normal places. Killing normal people. Now we constantly have 'what if'.

Also, there is the pressure put on us. To go to a good school, to meet the grades, to be perfect, to be popular, to be skinny, to be a genius. Especially to look right, and be right. The pain of being an outcast is extreme. In a post-apocalyptic world, that doesn't matter. Only survival matters. It's a relief to focus on simply living, but also, that battle for survival mirrors exactly what it feels like to be a teenager most of the time. To make it through school. To survive everything that it heaped on you. I guess that's what it feels like to me anyway.

Edited to add: the most chilling dystopian fiction I have ever read is On The Beach. Simply because it doesn't offer that hope. And it is exactly how I felt when I realised there was nothing I could do. I was always going to be me. And that me wasn't going to be the pretty, popular, liked and loved girl.

>151 phebj:: I largely agree with you, Pat, about feeling like America wouldn't be attacked in those days (I grew up in the 60s and 70s, also). However, the Cold War did hit me pretty hard . Perhaps a good part of that was that I was an Army brat and the "Soviet Menace" was so intensely part of our lives, particularly during a stint the family did in Germany right through the Cuban Missile Crisis.

I guess that, unlike 9/11, which was very present and real for everyone, the Cold War was abstract enough that its effect varied greatly by how close you got to it.

>152 lunacat:: I agree about the Miller. I loved it in high school but a re-read some years ago was unfortunate. It's one of those I wish I had left alone on the pedestal.

About the generational thing...I wonder if every generation doesn't have its particular despair. I remember sitting in a class as a kid and having a science teacher explain quite seriously and convincingly how, should the Button get pushed, between the bombs, the fallout, the climate change, etc., nobody would survive. It doesn't matter now whether his science was good or bad, it was incredibly sobering and affecting to a grade schooler to be told regularly that the Button probably would be pushed and thinking that meant life ended. A generation back from that...my wife is Jewish and listening to her parents talk about how they have no older relatives because of the camps makes me realize that their generation got its dose of trauma, also.

In a way, I think those kinds of things are what make dystopic fiction work so well. If our lives were perfect things, we'd have no frame of reference. Instead, we can see it.

All very interesting!!
As a child in the 50's I ducked and covered under my desk to ward off the bomb, but I don't recall feeling traumatized. I've mentioned somewhere before my father's take on bomb shelters ("If they {the local installers of shelters} are going to be the ones left, I think I'll just go with the bomb."), and I guess his humor diffused any anxiety I might have felt. Being middle-class and white in a small town, I guess I had the safest childhood possible.
The only other thing I have to add is my great relief at having found a group that doesn't worship Miller and *Leibowitz.* I came to it way too late and was never able to read it. Now I really feel at home!
(And Becky and Nathan, that's very orthodox theology: human motivation is always mixed.)

>154 LizzieD:: You know, even as a 9 year old, I couldn't quite figure out how those desks were going to stop a blast that would rip the building apart.

I also remember Kevin Hartline asking the teacher how, if the Communists were going to strike without warning, and since we were only miles from the border, how we'd know not be be looking out the window so that we didn't look at the blast. I'm sure he's an attorney now. ;-)

We ducked and covered, too, but in the middle of Kansas with a missile silo only a few miles away, we were pretty sure that being in the middle of the country (in both senses) wasn't going to result in our being overlooked come an atomic war. Unlike you, Peggy, I was absolutely convinced that I would not survive to adulthood during my middle school years. Glad that was one instance in which my pessimism about the acts of man en masse (and that's the generic man, Tad, not the specific gender) was not borne out!

>145 phebj: - I read that to my daughter and she flipped -- was quite impressed that some adult had figured this out. Her main Q. So why do we have to go to high school if it's so awful??????
>146 TadAD: yes yes -- it really is a varied genre with very varied motives.
>147 labwriter:-8 I do think this aspect is emphasized in the more serious forms of dys. fiction, also the unknowableness of which way people jump in times of stress and what the limits are.
>151 phebj:-2 I was so blown away by A Canticle for Leibowitz I'm sorry to hear it hasn't withstood the test of time. That with some Arthur Clarke's were what got me going in the SF dept. I would never read On the Beach again. Once was plenty.

We never ducked and covered at my school, don't know why not, they must have decided it was a crock? But I was quite terrified by the Cuban Missile Crisis, somehow I had some clue about it, who knows how. My mother and I once had a serious talk about why I was often so gloomy about everything and we ended up agreeing that just growing up in a world that you could blow to pieces creates a kind of insecurity. I'm less gloomy now that I am older, btw.

Oh, I have A Canticle for Leibowitz in my TBR pile, so I hope I still end up enjoying it ;)

Nature report: It is snowing lightly, not sticking, TG. I don't think it will.

Peepers and wood frogs are out.

I saw a bobcat running up into the woods, confirms my idea that we have one living on the hillside above the house. I was surprised by how awkward it looked running. a bit bow-legged in back and how long its legs were, on chunky body -- sort of like.... a boxer, the smallish kind? I have to find a good youtube shot -- so far no luck.

Lucy, I meant to ask you about the quacking frog video you posted awhile ago. Are those also the peepers?

(I'm totally ignoring the snow and bobcat report--too scary.)

No -- the quacking frog is a wood frog and the peepers are, well, peepers -- tiny little frogs the size of a thumbnail. The wood frogs are 2-3 inch types. There were about ten of them swimming around in the pond the other day, made me happy.

The snow has stopped, thank goodness.

I'm not scared of a bobcat, not personally, and one of my friends was telling me that they've had them nearby for a decade and haven't lost any of their cats. That's really my only concern.

Wow, Lucy, reading your thread is a cross between getting some great letters from a friend (remember letters, with handwriting on them and stamps on the envelopes??) and sitting with a few very bright friends around a dinner table and discussing everything that crosses our minds... Great to catch up.

One of the elements about a dystopia is the way it's inextricably linked to utopia, whether perceived or intended. For instance, in Ninni Holmquist's "The Unit", or Never Let Me Go, the worlds that the authors imagine certainly might seem to be utopian to those who don't think about or question what makes their improved life possible. In most dystopian novels I've read, a majority of citizens are passively acquiescent. It reminds me, in a way, of what I've read of the Nazi occupation of western Europe. In hindsight, we dramatize the role of the resistance leaders, but these were a tiny fraction of the population. Collaborators also were a minority, but the vast majority of the population tried to avoid having to become involved, instead focusing on just getting from one day to the next. How many of those residing in a dystopia recognize it as being one? Do we live in a dystopian society today, perhaps: a world with tremendous material prosperity but immense inequalities? I sometimes feel as if we live on a tiny and precarious membrane, below which bubble all kinds of unpleasant things that we would be aware of if we didn't close our eyes to them. We can quite easily lead our lives with blinders on, but I'd argue that to the extent we remove them, the more dystopian our universe feels.

Re sex without passion (I'm just starting The Uncoupling, hope to finish it tomorrow), at the age of nearly 50, I'd argue that there are plenty of other reasons for sex -- warmth, comfort, affection, etc. As relationships change and age, the nature of sex between partners changes -- it can never be the white-hot passion. What Dory describes isn't just a lack of passion, but an active sense of repulsion -- an icy cold wind sweeps over her.

Thank you Suzanne -- I can't imagine a better compliment than yours.

Of course! The implied utopia, or the disaster that was meant to be utopian (we've had more than a few of those.....).

Also -- very good point about passion -- I maybe should have chosen a less loaded word. And yes, that icy wind causes actual repulsion.

I'm here to say I'll be scarce for the next couple of days -- I'm not taking my computer up to Montreal with me tomorrow, I need to rest my wrists and neck and head -- computer overuse the last couple of weeks, scary!!!! So I'm going to go cold turkey on LT until Sunday afternoon folks, wish me luck!

Have a fine Easter all of those of you who celebrate it. And to everyone else a great weekend.

Lucy, have a wonderful, rejuvenating time! You'll be missed.

Ooooh, cold turkey from LT??? Now THAT is a cold, chilly, nasty wind indeed!!!

But have a lovely time in la ville de Montreal.... Hope you don't get withdrawal symptoms!

I'm not having cold turkey this weekend, I'm having ham. Have fun.

#159 Hey, you saw Bob? That's great! If he shows up again, tell him Tom wants to know whatever became of that catnip mouse I loaned him last year. Best one I ever had.
TK

Have a wonderful Easter, Lucy! I don't envy you Montreal - isn't snow predicted? Still, it is a beautiful city.

What a cheery sweet graphic Claudia!

I'm home from my jaunt across the border and it is over 60 degrees out which is marvelous and we are airing out the house at long last.

I finished two books during my time away from LT, the Francine Prose on Reading Like a Writer and the second volume of Brian Aldiss's tremendously fine trilogy about Helliconia, Helliconia Summer. I'm feeling a bit too lazy right at this instant to write about them, somewhere I took some notes by hand since I was staying off computers to rest my poor head.

I did OK -- although I did miss everyone and it did feel a bit weird to finish a book and not rush right over here to crow about it! And I suspect I feel lazy about writing about them because I finished one three days ago and the other yesterday!

Glad you're back! Enjoy your balmy Sunday.

Thanks Pat, I am glad to be back! I had a gorgeous walk out in the woods, first time outside not wearing a turtleneck!!!! Major breakthrough!!!!!

And so.

In the interest of full disclosure Francine was my first advisor at the MFA program I attended umpteen years ago, and I have no perspective at all about anything to do with her! I have the complete Chekhov stories and I have read them, some of them more than once. They do grow on you in this way exactly as Francine warns. Something happens and you think: "That's just how it happened in ........(put in the name of story)." You've been sick and you feel better. You watch a new neighbor make a fool of him or herself trying to show the natives how to be sophisticated (or whatever), you add a stupid post script to a serious letter that, in effect, negates everything you just said..... Chekhov, like Shakespeare astounds, amazes, and seems to simply know everything about people, how silly we are, how cruel, how lonely, how tender. He gets it all. You can also assume I've read 90 percent of the books she mentions because those are the books and stories that have formed Francine's thinking about writing, how to 'teach' reading, how to guide writers. Whether Kleist or Carver, O'Connor or Trevor, she has chosen them because they are great but also because each one demonstrates some way a writer made a choice about how to tell the story they wanted to tell -- to use this or that tense, to come in close third, distant third, to concentrate on dialogue, descriptions, characters...... It is important to keep in mind that she isn't saying these are the very best books ever written (although most of them are that) but that each one will reveal an aspect of writerly craft to a careful reader. It was a delight for me to read Reading like a Writer, amusing to read Francine's take on MFA programs, (she's too modest, of course, I learned an astounding amount from her and the other teachers as well as making lifelong friends), it's a pleasure hear her kind and eager voice in my ear, and a great reminder to go look at my shelf of Chekhov stories which might be due for another round of attention. Highly recommended for LT readers and fiction writers. The reading list at the end is pure gold. *****

Over the weekend I also finished the second book in the Helliconia trilogy by Brian Aldiss. It is the middle of the 2500 year cycle of the Great Year now and the planet heating up, both literally and figuratively: the phagors (see the first review of Helliconia Spring) are in retreat, but the human groups, who can handle the heat better, are engaged in almost constant warfare among themselves. The Avernus, the huge earth ship tasked with studying Helliconia continues to do the work, although after a thousand years living in space the people there are losing touch with 'reality'. On Helliconia we meet the Queen of Queens, the beautiful MyrddIngala, the king JandolAngonol and various of their lovers, enemies, counselors..... (Aldiss names his Helliconians brilliantly, names both appealing and very strange and different). We see more of the animals and other sentient beings on the planet and by the end of this novel we know a great deal more about how it all came to be, how it all fits together. A person from the Avernus, an earthling, comes down to the planet (every few years there is a lottery to see who gets to go, even though the penalty is death by disease everyone is keen to go to a 'real' place no matter what the cost) and the clash between the expectations of Billy that he could communicate some of what he knows about the peoples and the planet and what he finds out -- that no one wants to know anything that interferes with the way they make sense of their lives -- is one of the more interesting parts of the novel. Another is the trip to Sibornal, one of the more 'advanced' human cultures in the north, and the experience that some of these travelers have on a stop of a great herd of beasts, who run all their lives for relief from a nasty biting fly. Nothing has changed between the humans and phagors by the end of this second book, no further understanding about their intertwined fates, but the reader knows a great deal, everything the humans on the Avernus know and more. One of the many great features of the Helliconia world is how many sentient and semi-sentient beings have come to be and have survived and have to figure out how to live together. The phagors were first, but the humans are more adaptable and could deal with huge climate change better and so began to pull ahead after the catastrophe that gave the planet two suns and took away their moon. Another strong piece of the novel is the complexity of the inner lives of the people, their beliefs and dreams -- while Aldiss keeps a certain distance from the characters -- this is ultimately a history and so you aren't to throw yourself fully into one character's life, but to absorb how each individual must play his or her assigned role, he nonetheless manages to give each character some distinct qualities that keep them from being uninteresting. You can't ask for better true science fiction. ****1/2

Your reviews make both Reading Like a Writer and the Helliconia trilogy sound interesting. I'm off to put them on my WL.

Sound good, Lucy. Both of them! Maybe I'll read some Chekhov first though.....

Hi Lucy, the Francine Prose book is going on the list. It looks like a book that should be on every LTer's pile especially for that reading list at the end. I'm dying to see it...drool...

Okay, Lucy, you won't believe how timely this is. I requested Reading Like a Writer through PBS many months ago, and it came last month when I was ill and has been sitting in the pile for incoming books to find a home (a shelf upon which to perch while in TBR-land), buried under several other books, somewhat forgotten. But it strikes me as a perfect airplane book to read tomorrow on my traveling. And so now it is out of the limbo pile and into my purse!

Reading Like a Writer is a fab book -- I'm not a big giant fan of "how to write" books, but quite aside from any utility value as a writing manual, it's a great book to READ. Yum. Must download to my Kindle so I have a permanently portable version, as well as the shelf version!!

RLAW--sounds like a good read. I put it on my Wishlist. My only problem is that I don't seem to be able to read any other way anymore, and sometimes I wish I could just--read--you know what I mean?

Yes, Suzanne, I don't think it is meant to be used as a writer's manual at all -- she is careful, I think, to say there isn't much point to that -- that the best thing is for a writer to read the great stuff, think about, imitate it (in private mostly), be inspired by it..... I agree with her too that I always write better when I'm reading someone really good..... or I think I do anyway!

I do know what you mean Becky -- this weekend, with no computer time did allow for a lot more reading time -- and whatever the neck issue is, I can tell it is still around, so I am going to have to be very careful here. Should be good for my reading if hard on me in other ways.

Nature report: So we have a pair of Canada geese we figure are going to nest..... they've been here a week now, except that this morning three other male geese (A,B, & C) turned up and seem to be challenging Mr. Goose. Moreover, they too appear to have a pecking order, C definitely being the low man on the totem pole.... Anyway there is now quite a bit of flapping and squawking going on out there, not all the time, but in little bursts.

Is your neck issue caused from using the computer? If so, do you by any chance wear bifocals? When I use my bifocals at my computer, I end up with a kink in my neck. My eye doc solved that by giving me computer glasses. They're one more pair to keep track of, but my neck doesn't hurt anymore from tilting my head up to see through the bottom half of my glasses. Although maybe your issue is something entirely different. Whatever it is, hope it feels better.

I hadn't thought about the glasses issue, Becky, but you're exactly right. Unfortunately, my eyes have changed again and the old pair of computer/piano glasses aren't working so well now. So I've raised the monitor. It now sits on a couple of books that I won't read anytime soon, and all is well in Peezer land.

I do think it has something to do with the angle of my head -- I've been working standing up mostly, and then I'm all right. I tried sitting down this morning and bingo! The weird thing, whatever it is, started happening. So now I'm up on my feet again. I don't wear bifocals, I have dedicated reading glasses but I do think it is a vision/posture issue that I have to address. Meanwhile, standing up at least has novelty factor although if I am going to do this for some time to come I need to make a sturdier arrangement, or get a real lectern or something.

>181 sibylline:: re: nature report ... we have observed an annual cycle with Canada Geese on our pond. We get hundreds of them around Christmas, and they slowly move on over the next three months. But we are always left with one nesting pair, once we had two pairs. It's so sweet when their goslings are born. We have a mama sitting on a nest right now and I expect we'll see her goslings in a week or so. Unfortunately we usually experience some gosling mortality, most likely due to the bastard of a snapping turtle in the pond.

>172 sibylline:: Hi Lucy, it's so cool that you know Francine Prose so well. I'm reading How to Read Novels Like A Professor and thinking how much I would like to take a class or two under him. I have the Prose book and look forward to comparing the two.

Neck issues? Maybe something is going around, although I think my sore neck is due to sleeping in a different bed than I'm used to. I usually travel with my own pillow, too, but I forgot it this time.

Hope the neck thing eases up soon. I often get neck tightness and usually don't know where it comes from or why it goes away.

I certainly get more mysterious aches and pains than I ever used to -- I'm assuming it's aging... For instance, I get a dull muscle pain in my shoulderblade on the right side. The only thing I've ever been able to link it to is prolonged periods working on my sofa on my laptop, instead of behind my desk in a more or less proper chair. I do want to get a "real" office chair at some point. I got this one, a cheapie that goes to mid-back, about nine years ago when I started freelancing.

All these aches and pains come and go, and none are crippling, so I'll just roll with it for now.

Thank you all for neck commiserations -- and I, of course, sympathize with all of you! I think it is some weird nexus of chair, table and just too much time..... I have set it up so I am standing up, and that seems to work ok although I think it could get to be a drag over the long haul. Virginia worked standing up and someone else, Peggy will remember, so I'm in good company.

Donna -- I'll be very interested to hear your comparison if you get to it. I suspect writers and professors do read differently.

Laura -- I'm wondering about all that too - we have a snapping turtle and otters and foxes and fisher cats and the bobcat -- seemingly endless predators, few of whom, I'm guessing, will turn up their snouts and whiskers at an egg. It would be interesting to know just how beleaguered they will be if they do stay. I'll be curious to see if A, B. and C are still around tomorrow.

Nature report: Today we have a pair of mergansers floating about -- he stopped here a few days ago, and now he is back with the Mrs. I doubt they will stay as we have no fish in the pond (though tons of frogs) and it also looks like their regular breeding grounds are way farther north, but it is nice to see them. merganser

Books? Read a little of Oldtown Folks but it wasn't a reading day......

One thing I love about ducks is seeing them in pairs especially when it's easy to tell the male from the female. That was a great bird website.

>190 sibylline:: oh, I love mergansers! I wonder if it's the same pair that was on our pond a few weeks back?! :)
I know it's probably not, but it's fun to think about them migrating from PA to VT. They are an occasional visitor, always on their way somewhere else. I also adore Wood Ducks, but they are difficult to spot (very shy).

I love that Cornell bird website too ... they do a great job with it.

Nature Report: Woke up to the 'no school' phone call early, staggered to window, gasp!, water everywhere! Not in house, but just high high high in all the drainage ditches. Went out to look. We could get out if we had to with a bit of adventuresome xcountry driving..... but we have elect. coffee, milk, cookies, dog and catfood, internet and BOOKS so we are fine. Later we'll be doing some aerobic shoveling..... Two culverts failed (one overwhelmed, the other blocked). I cleared the blocked one but that made the biggest mess as it is for a stream that runs down the hillside a long long way -- the overflow blew away all the gravel down to the rip rap laid down under everything. At least that is still there as the base.

It's supposed to keep on raining off and on until Friday. Oh boy.

Now I'll go read. I realize there is far too much nature stuff here, but it really is 'up to my eyeballs' today. Gurgle.

I hate water issues. I never had to deal with that sort of thing when we lived in Denver (barely enough rainfall to even count), but here in Misery, too much rain is often a problem. "Aerobic shoveling"--oh wow Sib! I feel for you. Right now our biggest problem is the grass and back yard weeds are about a foot high because it's too wet to mow and weed-whack. I guess I should be thankful that's my only problem. I did buy a dehumidifier for the basement room where I put my books--and it hasn't stopped running yet, but the room feels much better.

Wow Lucy, I'm just glad to hear you are doing OK despite the water. I hope you are able to keep it at bay and find time to enjoy those BOOKS.

Well, the good news is we might minimize the shoveling. We actually have a friend's backhoe parked here from an earlier ditch-digging episode and he is coming over this afternoon.... there'll be plenty to do with a shovel, but he will do the heavy-lifting.

I just read fifty pages of Oldtown Folks Doors all open and lovely warm air coming through (explains the severity of the storms as this mass of warm air pushed in last night!) -- so far the day has been lovely and restful.

Although -- I have to vacuum -- last week it stopped working but hub found a sock plugging it, so it's back to work. A sock! Never saw it - probably under the bed or something where I usually just sort of push around without looking.

Ah! Stuffing the vacuum with socks! Why didn't I think of that? If it's good for a week off, I'm all over it.

Sorry about all the water and flooding hassles... no lack of excitement in your neck of the woods. Good stuff for a humorous book, Lucy!
It sounds like you might need to get a backhoe of your very own. Snow in the winter, water in the spring... what's going to need digging up and pushing around in the summer?

I'll keep that notion to myself -- the hubster would probably leap at the idea of having his very own backhoe.

Hi. Just wanted to tell you that I just finished reading Hepzibah and had to say how great I thought it was, especially the ending. What will you do with it now?

Your kind words mean a lot to me -- I know what a discerning reader you are and that you could just..... not say anything..... and I would never be the wiser. So I am really happy!

Everyman's dream: his own, personal backhoe. I'll not let my DH get wind of it.

Well, you learn something new every day. I now know what a backhoe is. I was expecting something exciting but was surprised to know I already knew, just never knew the name!

I'm dying to know -- is it a backhoe in the UK too?

And, since this is LT, not the VeryLargeNoisyMachineThing site, I have read a little bit today, although I haven't yet reached my 50 p. goal in Oldtown Folks after which I'm permitted to read Cryoburn.

Summer, however fickley (I know not a real word) is here, two days in a row over 75! But I know it could end in tears, as in snow, in a blink.

Hi Lucy! How the heck did you get up to 75 already? You must pay higher taxes! That is very weird weather you're getting there.
All our birds are so industrious - gathering, building, singing, showing off - back and forth, back and forth! I ... am watching!

Also reading *Hepzibah* and loving it. I see you made some revisions, so now I'm re-reading. It's even better! You are a very talented writer. ;-)

#203

No, they are called JCBs, even if they aren't manufactured by that company. Just another colloquialism!

Rilly, Jenny? A backhoe is called a JCB? What does JCB stand for?

Thank you Claudia. It means a lot to me!

Temps back to normal here -- low 60's but even that is a delight!

I am almost finished the John Lennon life audiobook, don't know if I can face the excrutiating last chapter. Now, of course, I want to go on a serious re-listen of everything.

It stands for Joseph Cyril Bamford, who first invented the 'backhoe loader' in 1953. His company is JCB. Apparently the JCB company is now the third largest construction equipment manufacturer in the world! (isn't it amazing what you can learn with a few clicks).

JCB's are most well known for always being bright yellow. Of course there are other manufacturers, but here they are just known as JCBs by everyone, including those who use them.

Well, I'll be durned. I hope I get the chance sometime to show off my deep knowledge of anglo earth-moving equipment terminology!! Are they JCB's in Ireland as well? I'm more likely to go there and be somewhere out in the country where I might casually drop it into a convo at a pub session (music not imbibing).

Further book news: I've won the new Robin Hobb in the ER sweepstakes and that makes me a happy camper! She is a favorite fantasy author of mine.

>208 sibylline:: a quick Google search indicates the JCB company (JCB.com) operates in many countries throughout the world, including Great Britain/Northern Ireland, and Ireland. Lucky you !! :)

>208 sibylline: Great! I one my first ER book too! It's 20 Years Later by...You know, I don't remember. And the Touchstones won't work so I can't remember. I think either Newman Emma or vice versa.

Oh Congrats Nathan -- so far I have very much liked all my ER books, but I have been careful about what I choose! I'll have to check out yours.

New thread for May: here

Haven't done anything concrete on it yet, just grabbed the spot. We're supposed to go to some May Day party.... but so far everyone is lying around reading. Big surprise!

Hello gennyt and sibyx,

I found this thread via the "Conversations" links in the entry for Outliers.

Was wondering if someone who's recently read the book could take a look at a summary I wrote of it. I honestly believe the summary is neutral, doesn't add my opinions, covers 95% of the most important ideas in the book, and it only takes between 10 and 15 minutes to read. But of course, I'd like to know what others think. Here is the summary:

http://wiki.dandascalescu.com/summaries/Malcolm_Gladwell_-_Outliers

Thanks!