2012 Reading in Le Salon

This is where we should come talk about what we would like to read in 2012. This is the thread to which I shall pay attention in September while putting together next year's reading. Would one of you group admins put a link to this thread on the group page?

So far, I have the following list, not set in stone, however a leader for a book will give it a leg up in the final standings.

Cities of Salt Urania1 has graciously consented to lead this.
Germinal We need a leader for this
The Fatal Shore For a non-fiction read. Maybe we can all learn about Sheila's homeland.
Something by Mahfouz.

There may be others that I was unable to tease out of the soup, if so, please feel free to mention them.

If you lurkers want to read something, waiting for it to maybe appear on a list somewhere ain't gonna cut it. Speke up!

I liked the eclecticism of this year's list. I am not an eclectic reader by nature so to keep the e-quotient up I need help here, Freeque, you listenin'?

I would like to throw out for consideration Borges' short stories, Labyrinths. Or, a short story collection by Flannery O'Connor. I think the only collections of hers are A Good Man is Hard to Find and Everything that Rises Must Converge.

OK I'm putting my Colin Wilson's The Outsider idea here for future reference.

I adore Borges' Labyrinths and could help lead it. I'm not much of a lit crit but I was a Spanish Lit major.

I also could help with or lead the Mahfouz or Ahdaf Soueif read.

Gene, don't forget Moby Dick and some sort of Summerstock. I've read most of O'Connor, but would be interested in visiting her again.

Seconding the whale

Weren't we also talking about Ovid?

>6 Poquette: We were! I second Ovid.

I haven't read in groups for a long time (since college, actually); I prefer to go it on my own. But I'm trying to break my own mold in other ways, so maybe I'd stick a toe in the water for Colin Wilson. As a follower; certainly not a leader.

I wonder if Rick Harsch would be willing to run an author thread for one of his?

Yes, we were talking about Ovid's Metamorphosis. Thanks for putting it on this list. Can someone explain to me why I had to drill down fifty or sixty touchstones to get to the one that should have just popped up to begin with. I was beginning to wonder if Ovid really had published a book called Metamorphosis. Or if my memory of it was nothing but a spider's web. After the first six or so were taken up with Kafka and his big ass bug, I thought jeez, why couldn't Ovid be slipped in here somewhere at least once. Does anyone here know the algorithm for listing touchstones? Some enlightenment would be helpful. No doubt it has to do with how many copies show up on LT or something, but jeezey peezey!

Yes, Moby Dick and The Tale of Genji, too, as I recall.

9: I second this motion.

Guy de Maupassant seems to be attracting some discussion in parts of Le Salon, as well. I've read a few of his short stories and, as I recall, liked them. I read them in English translation though. None of this sitting with piles of French grammar's dictionaries, and other word game aids as I picture Porius with his wizard's hat on a high, clerks stool cutting up Paris Spleen and throwing the cuttings at the circle of books, charts and other aids and guides to the French language of the fin de siecle. I don't really have the time, money, nor the inclination to do that, so I've read mine in English translation. By the way, P. if you read this, or not, I am really enjoying the pfruits of your efforts with this project and am very glad YOU are doing it.

I'm up for Moby as long as we've got a couple others to help lead it; I've started expanding the library a bit in preparation.

Also, Summer Stock II.

I've just been catching up on Porius' Spleen. Wonderful, wonderful.

I would enjoy an Ovid read. Don't we need a russian at some point during the year?

I threw out Under the Volcano on the liquor thread.

GG I invite with relish any old thing you have to say for or against the delightful cartoon of a character you have painted above. It's pretty darn accurate. I don't have that much time to waste though, I try to do it in the 2 hours I have set aside for French studies. Once again GG you have caught me out for the fraud that I am.
I've been having a problem following the current political scene. When I see that mountebank Trump on the TV I get willies straight away. obama, mccain, trump, clinton - why are we plagued with these clowns?

14: Yes, we need a Russian, I believe it's in the contract.

>14 A_musing:, 17 Thank you A and Anna. I nominate Crime and Punishment or Dead Souls.

To Gene's point in message 10: Dead Souls initially brings up a book of the same name by Ian Rankin.

Thank God somebody else posted. I would like to see some choices from China and India. Not The Annalects or the Mahabarata. Something more contemporary, yet able to help us understand these cultures. I know nothing about their literatures, contemporary or otherwise. I have read The Upanishads and parts of the Gita, and of course the Kama Sutra of Vatsayana (WTF is The Undead Kama Sutra and why is it listed first for Kama Sutra?). Now I seem to be stuck with it. If you catch this post before I get it fixed, just offer a prayer to the touchstone gods for me.

I think the touchstones you are looking for would be for The Complete Kama Sutra, perhaps?

12: All three of Harsch's novels published in the nineties are easily available - The Driftless Zone, Billy Verite and The Sleep of the Aborigines. The reviewers make favorable comparisons with William Kennedy, Sherwood Andersen, Barry Hannah, Rick Moody and Nelson Algren. I understand they can each stand alone. There is a favorable, apparently disinterested, review of the first novel here on LT.

HDL, what happened was apparently there is a time out mechanism when selecting touchstones, because when I hesitated to select more initially it just decided apparently that the undead none was what i wanted and would not lket me change it (imagine, there is only one work titled The Undead Kama Sutra and I was henceforth stuck with it until I modified Kama Sutra to be Kama Sutra of Vatsayana. Even with the guys name on it I get something else first. What a FUBAR system. Try it yourself and see. Just open a post, enter Kama Sutra with brackets and see what you get. Shit, why can't I just get the book I specify, instead of somebody's best guess that I really didn't want the one I specified, but maybe the one they recommend.

However, there is an interesting issue with regard to the undead and the mechanics of sex that might make a trip through the lovemaking skills of the undead of some interest to anthropologists.

My $0.02.

The Idiot
Journey to the End of the Night
Omensetter's Luck
Underworld
Kafka on the Shore

I know, Gene... FUBAR (I've always loved that acronym) *sigh* it fits so many situations, so well.

What about Tolstoy? I absolutely loved War and Peace.

1>Just now listnin' Dude. I've been stuck at Disneyland all day. Oh the HORROR.

Here's my twenty-two cents:

1. For Flannery O'Connor, I'd recommend The Complete Stories of Flannery O'Connor, that way you don't have to make the tough decision between the two collections you mention in post 1.

2. I'll second the Cities of Salt recommendation. Burt listed it in his Top 100 Novels of all time, and you already got Urania on board? That's a win-win.

3. Zola would be great. Murr has spoken very highly of Germinal. That's enough for me. I'm loving Lourdes.

4. I'm not as excited about The Fatal Shore as the ones above, but with the Muse around, we'd probably get some inside information to go along with it, which would probably make it that much more of a fascinating read.

5. My first picks for a non-fiction read would be the following:

Rising Up and Rising Down: Some Thoughts on Violence, Freedom and Urgent Means by William T. Vollmann (the 700-plus page abridged version, not the original 3,000 page 7-volume edition.)

Black Lamb and Grey Falcon

Anything by Sarah Vowell.

(to be continued)

6. Borges would be good. As would Hopscotch: A Novel by Julio Cortazar; A Void by Georges Perec; Three Trapped Tigers by G.C. Infante; Terra Nostra would excite me so much I might need to get medical attention for sustaining an erection lasting four hours or more; Pedro Paramo by Juan Rulfo I've meant to read forever, short little powerful book, I hear.

7. Javier Marias is another writer I've wanted to read that would be good for a group setting.

8. I'd help out leading (or, I suppose, actually "lead") an Under the Volcano: A Novel read, especially since I'd be letting David Markson do most of the work. Markson's Malcolm Lowry's Volcano: Myth, Symbol, Meaning is a wonderful guide to the labyrinth.

9. I'll second an under-appreciated, real life author thread, of Harsch's, The Driftless Zone, and also second Omensetter's Luck or anything by William H. Gass. His literary criticism collected in several different volumes too many to mention here are all exceptional.

10. I'd recommend either A Smuggler's Bible or Lookout Cartridge by Joseph McElroy

11. I'd recommend another book by Julien Gracq

12. Miss Macintosh, My Darling -- tome of tomes.

13. Isn't it time we read us some Henry James?

14. Some literary criticism? If not by William H. Gass, then how about some Barthes?

15. Throw out some other writers we've mentioned over the years but never gotten to: E.M. Forster, William Gaddis, Colette, Gunter Grass, George Eliot, Charles Dickens, Anthony Trollope, Gustave Flaubert, Andre Gide, John Barth, Rikki Ducornet (we almost read her last year), ...

16. The Public Burning by Robert Coover, I almost forgot -- you all need to take a look at this book and then try telling me it isn't vital we read it at some point.

17. I'm greatly enjoying dipping into The Modern Library's Anthology, Great Tales of Terror and the Supernatural -- go check out Big Mac's House of Horrors thread and you can see a listing of its contents, many of which are also listed by Mac in his terrifying lists ...

gotta eat, probably more later ...

>13 geneg: HAHAHAH!!!!! I love this image!

I am happy to lead anything Russian and 19th century. Crime and Punishment would be great and I could do that without much prep. War and Peace would be a major project, I think, like Karamazov was last year. I'm in if there's enough interest.

I would love to do some criticism or theory, and hereby volunteer to lead Barthes's S/Z, which I have studied in some depth.

I'm also in for the whale; and anything Porius cares to lead.

I can blubber on pretty much about anything. We could have discussions not related to any particular book. A discussion of two like or unlike authors. A discussion of Joyce & Woolf would be pfun. Putter-inners v. taker-outers.

Or discussions on why we read certain books? etc. etc. etc.

1.I second anything above I don't mention here:

2.I would be happy, of course, to run a thread about one of my books, but I don't think the list should be limited to the published or soon to be published. I think several of the unpublished are better than any in the trilogy. And for the non-fiction lit. the next is memoir/diary. Any unpublished I could just send the manuscript around. The only one I wouldn't want to do is the maritime history because historical argument can be such a pain in the ass.

3. If we do one of mine, all must forget Dr. Weissman--I couldn't match is analytical abilities or his memory.

4. Who am i anyway? I was with the Melville thread and then 2666 forthcame and now I am there. Otherwise I was just a shadow on Peter's DD thread because I read the book through quickly and had little of importance to say weeks later.

5. Since there are so many critics here, it might be interesting to have critics put up a collection of 10 or so reviews at a time and discuss them.

I like your idea number 5, Rick. That could be fascinating. Might engender a real discussion, after the book had been read and everybody put their two cents up about it.

>18 theaelizabet: seconding Dead Souls and throwing out Eugene Onegin as another possibility.

>6 Poquette:, 26 Another possibility is Borges' Book of Imaginary Beings. I have also had Pedro Paramo on my list of books I want to read, so I'll second that one as well.

I like that as well, but I meant some volunteers who regularly review tossing us 5 or 10 reviews at a time. (Especially bunches that include such as love Joyce and despise__________. Or vice versa.) In a sense something like Porius' idea of Woolf and Joyce together but without anyone but the critic doing any work.

yes yes yes yes Eugene Onegin!!!!!!!!!

Maybe something else instead of Fatal Shore - I'm looking at Kenneally's A commonwealth of thieves. Or something like that.

>33 QuentinTom: LOL haven't we done that already ?

please nix black lamb grey falcon...

great writing. some very funny. but utterly unreliable regarding the folk hereabouts.

more specifically: when the Balkans were rediscovered so was her book, and treated as if something like definitive; yet when she was charmed, so was her prose, and that charm was not innocent, fat brushes obscured or transmogrified cities, people, events...

What do y'all think about maybe reading a really good literary biography, something along the lines of Ellmann's James Joyce?

#37

It's been a long time, AND I never finished the book, but I agree with cautioning--it depends on why one would read it. West was a marvellous writer and a keen observer, the book is enjoyable in its own right, on literary merit and the interest such olden travelogues into the "exotic Europe" have for lovers of the genre. But 1938 isn't 1988, or 2008. As for West's bias, I can't remember what it was (or supposed to be). Basically, as every adult ought to know, few humans are super-objective all-knowing reporting machines.

In 2012 I am scheduling a read of either Sir Walter Scott, Joseph Conrad (not Heart of Darkness or Lord Jim), Thomas Hardy (not Tess of the D'Urbervilles), Henry Adams, or Henry James. The problem I have is between these five authors there are probably a hundred things to read. I just can't decide so I've decided to throw it open to you. However, if you do not choose then I will be forced to. So keep that in mind. You might wish to recall that I suggested The Octopus, so let that enter into your thinking.

Please, please, please Moby-Dick! I fear I'll never get through it alone.

Re, 40, I intend to read James' The Wings of the Dove in the next year and a half and I'd love company. I would also read a Hardy.

40: I'd be interested. I would re-read Nostromo. It is my favorite Conrad. I have not read The Secret Agent and would like to. But would seriously consider anything. I went through a Hardy jag many years ago and have not been overly tempted to go back. That said, my jag did not include Mayor or, I think, Native and I really should have read them.

Is The Golden Bowl overexposed? Anybody else interested?

I'd be interested in both The Wings of the Dove and Return of the Native. I read The Golden Bowl a few years ago and was underwhelmed. I think I've read all of Adams' novels as well as The Education of Henry Adams, so I probably wouldn't return to those.

For Conrad, what about The Secret Agent? Scott's a bit tough, and it's been a couple decades since I last read him. One of the Waverly novels could be fun. I have to say, though, that my recollection of Scott is that he doesn't belong in the same group with Conrad, Hardy and James. That's not to say he isn't good, just not to their level.

That seemed to be the take my Literature professors had. But the reason I include Scott is I see him as a transitional figure in the development of the novel. Reading him would be more an act of literary archaeology than anything else. After all, weren't Scott and the Olde Antiquarian one and the same? But unless I am mistaken we have a few literary archeologists in our midst and so a read moderated by one of them might be fun.

Keep in mind, only one from the entire gaggle of five, so choose wisely and well.

I think Moby Dick is a certainty, isn't it? It's been mentioned often in the couple months I've been around.

And Gene ought to get his Flannery O read for sure.

Ah, but which. Were I going to single-handedly inflict Ms. O'Connor on the group it would have to be The Violent Bear it Away. While not as well known as Wise Blood, I enjoy it more and IMO think it works better as a novel. The characters are possibly the most grotesque of her entire ouvre.

Rick, I agree at this point it would be a disservice not to read Moby Dick, but we'll just have to wait and see, now won't we?

I haven't read those two flanners for over 30 years, during which time I've read MD three times.

I think you should choose, Gene.

Fielding didn't reckon much with Nature. Scott of course took it into consideration. And Hugo sometimes put it at center stage. His Sea Romance, for example.

>45 geneg: My take certainly isn't original on Scott. If we are talking about one, I wouldn't choose Scott. If it's a transitional figure in the novel we're looking for, I'd rather read Fielding or some European from the 18th century. From the list, my vote would be first toward Conrad, then Hardy, then James.

My pick would be Henry James over the others mentioned. The Portrait of a Lady would be an "easier" intro to James, unless you've got your heart set on one of his last and more demanding novels. I could go either way. There's also The Portable Henry James from which you could pick and choose, if you didn't want to commit to a difficult novel.

For the novel in transition era of the 18th century, my pick would be neither Fielding or Sir Walter Scott, but Laurence Sterne, whose The Life and Opinions of Tristam Shandy, though I've never been able to finish the damn thing, is a metafictional, postmodern, whatever the hell you'd like to label the thing, masterpiece, a couple centuries ahead of its time.

Yeah, I hadn't thought about that, but in light of all the postmodern stuff we read in this group, Tristram Shandy would fit right in. Good one, Freeque.

I think it would be interesting to read an earlier James this year and read a later one next year. The James of The Portrait of a Lady is not the same James as The Golden Bowl. His goals, his requirements for his writing, his style, pretty much everything changed. I like to describe his later works as pointillism with a pen. The Portrait of a Lady is a pretty straightforward morality story, The Golden Bowl is much more a painting with words. Much more opaque.

We don't know yet whether James (whom I personally like very much) will win this one coveted spot or not.

I would go for any Henry James that the group chooses. I merely suggested The Golden Bowl because of its interpersonal complexity, which I find fascinating.

I'm in for James, but only if Gene leads. I'd also be up for Conrad: it's been years since I read any Conrad.

I would also like to read at some point Henry Adams, Mont St Michel and Chartres which I have had sitting on my shelves for ages. I can see this would be a great group read: a wider study of the gothic, perhaps (architecture, music, manuscripts etc we got a lot of medievalists in this group- could be very illuminating.

Scott is one of the writers whom it's better to read about than to read. He was a massive influence on the 19th century novel to be sure, but, trust me, not worth reading now.

Excellent idea on Tristram Shandy!

James is the one that intrigues me most from that group as well. Also want to thrown in my support for some Flannery.

I've never read any James, and have been wanting to try him for a while. I have a hard-to-eradicate prejudice against him which someone started, I can't even remember who. So a group read of anything by him would help me conquor that.

But if not James, I vote Conrad. I read The Secret Agent when I was too young for it, and would rather like to have another go. It also happens to be the only Conrad I've read. But I'd join in a Hardy too, with pleasure. I don't think I could get into a Scott though, even in an archeological way.

Tristram Shandy caught my attention when reading the intro of Tomcat Murr. I'd like to see what similarities there might be apart from the title.

>54 QuentinTom:: Murr, I read Mont St Michel and Chartres about 10 years ago to prepare myself for a visit to Chartres. I'd love to reread it.

Great Pim! Any more takers?

I just read the Secret Agent recently. Characters were interesting - it was quite dark. I have read Heart of Darkness and I am trying to remember the other ones - I'm pretty sure I read another Conrad when I was in Egypt, about the same time I read a bunch of Hardys. Maybe Nostromo.

I would like to remind everyone that we were going to read We (boy what a pain in the butt to find the touchstone). Chris keeps telling me that 1984 owes a lot to it and I would really like to read it.

The Adam's family. Sounds good to me.

Mont St Michel and Chartres would be a very interesting read. I think I'd be up for that. Shandy is a classic, but haven't most people on this list read it? Maybe not, but if so, I was thinking of something Shandy-esque, like Jacques the Fatalist.

Gene is right about how James changes over his career. I enjoyed Portrait of a Lady, but that seems like the safe choice to me. What about something like Roderick Hudson?

So many options!

I enjoyed both The Bostonians and The Princess Casamassima very much. I liked The Reverberator only slightly less. I, speaking personally here as your reading dictateur, would prefer to read some Henry Adams. I was encouraged by the discussion of Mont St. Michel and Chartres. But we'll see.

How about The Cancer Ward or The First Circle? Any interest in some Solzenitsyn?

Zora Neale Hurston? I read Their Eyes were Watching God and enjoyed it. Or how about The Soul's of Black Folks? I know that's not a novel, but the occasional long form non-fiction shouldn't be left out.

Who are our current lit mavens here? Can we get some recommends for something published in the last ten years?

The Peloponnesian War might go well after last years read of The Histories.

So many choices, so little time.

Did we say we were definitely going to do We?

How about another long form poem in the manner of Clarel and Paradise Lost? Something from the Orient if there is such a thing, or from the Dark Continent.

Are there any good Native American works to be had?

I am definitely interested in We, planned to read it some day or another.

I'm on board with Mont St Michel and Chartres. Funny, just last night I was thinking about the Peloponnesian War. Let's go for it.

to be read after 2666:

Porius and the bio of Powys
The Long Ships
Marias trilogy Your Face Tomorrow
Infinite Jest
Antunes What Can I do When Everything's on Fire
Master and Marguerita
Irving Until I and You
Mumbo Jumbo
Bakhtin: Dostoevsky and Rabelais both

so in 2013 maybe Moby Dick?

A_Musing has already said on his thread that he'll lead a read of Moby Dick next year. I'm pretty sure that's locked in.

Isn't Peloponnesian War dry as dust? That's just what I've heard. If we're doing ancient/classical history I just want to plug again The Twelve Caesars. I've been wanting to read that for ages.

Choc, I just picked up a copy of The Twelve Caesars. I'll second you if that's an official nomination.

Third! The Twelve Caesars is a fun romp.

What happened to Zola?

Yeah, Gene, what about Zola?

Don't worry, Lisa, I'll start a rebel read of Zola if I have too! Power to le peuple!

Gene, I would love to read The First Circle, but I'd prefer it be the recently unexpurgated one that was re-released last year with an extra 400 pages.

What about poetry? Something unwieldy like The Cantos of Ezra Pound? Or the collected works of ... whomever?

I'll triple the Mont-Saint-Michel and Chartres. But Murr, by insisting Geneg lead a Henry James read, you do realize then that Henry James has just been nixed? I'm sure Gene'd do a fine job but he's said many times before he won't lead a read (and I don't blame him) as you've set the bar so high so often -- how can any of us 'lil scaredy-cat-peuple (and I'm one of 'em!) easily intimidated by the thought of leading a read with people actually watching, ever hope to measure up, let alone not fall flat on our potentially humiliated faces?

oh piffle.

Gene is a Henry james expert. He will have no problem leading a HJ read. Right Gene?

Mont St Michel and Chartres gathering more speed here. Common Peuple! (Where is A_musing?)

I have long wanted to read Counds Pantos. I mean Pounds Cantos. MAybe that could be a long slow project.

I'd go with the Twelve Caesars.

The Landmark Thucydides: A Comprehensive Guide to the Peloponnesian War has been on my Wishlist for the longest time, having learned about it in the Ancient History group, where they were raving about it. So presumably it CAN be as dry as dust, but a really good edition always helps. However, I bow to the group preference.

It's not as dry as dust at all. It's one of the greatest books of all time.

and in the Landmark edition , it is just fantastic !

All right, all right. But I still vote for Twelve Caesars.

Murr, I demur, I am not an HJ expert. I just like his stuff a whole lot. In his realist phase he's clean as a whistle, sharp as a blade, and clear as a bell. In his symbolist phase hes' opaque as a painted window. I will take a stab at leading an HJ read if HJ is settled on. However, it looks like MSM&C is ahead right now and by the rules, only one this year of those five authors.

I didn't think Thucydides was dry at all, in fact he seemed rather lively in his curmudgeonly way. He was not happy about any phase of the war. Not it's origins, nor, obviously its outcome. He has small peas for many whom others of the time call heros. After all, if it weren't for him, we wouldn't have one of the greatest speeches in terms of themes of all time. Were it not for him we probably wouldn't know what Pericles told the Athenians when the war started going south.

well, I let the group decide. I would love to read a HJ with you.

I would be excited to group read a Zola with everyone. I haven't read Germinal, so that gets my vote. I will also profer La Debacle (we could compare it to other famous literary depictions of war).

http://www.amazon.com/Debacle-Oxford-Worlds-Classics/dp/0192822896/ref=sr_1_1?ie...

There's a new translation of Dead Souls coming from NYRB. I read the Modern Library edition a few years back, Guerney was the translator on that. I think it also got a Pevearizing...

http://yalepress.yale.edu/book.asp?isbn=9780300060997

http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Souls-Review-Books-Classics/dp/1590173767/ref=sr_1_1?...

Speaking of Germinal and republican calendars, today is Sextidi, 16 Floréal 219. Decimal time 5.19.63 -- time for lunch!

I suggest and would lead Rambles in Vedanta by B.R. Rajam Iyer, a little block of a book that actually rambles quite a lot, with such chapter as The Value of Books, 'The Mind, a Maddened Monkey--Thirst for God', and various other short Vedantic pieces; yet also includes a novel and short stories. Iyer wrote around the turn of the century 19 to 20 and died at 26. This book was one of those that come along every five years and slowly work their way inside my skin (above the waist, left side), plucked form a shelf casually, soon setting my brain alight.
May be hard to get, don't know.

Two books mentioned earlier I'd like to 2nd and 3rd: Smuggler's Bible and Pound's Cantos.

But could I also suggest a Pynchon? Either GR or V.? Please?

I second the need for a Pynchon. I am a Pynchon virgin and I find it much easier to wade into postmodern swamps with a bunch of internet guides.

>59 anna_in_pdx: seconding Мы er... We.

And of of courсe Евгений Онегин

I am not a big fan of GR but i like it okay. I like more slow learner and crying of lot 49 and v.. I'd read 49, if you like it then slow learner and if you like it then GR and V. GR on, Pynchon tries too hard. Not that I've read to completion (or in substantial part) anything by him after GR...the cutesy names, the forced humor, they get to me. Maybe I should give him another chance.

I don't get the love for We. I read it a couple of years ago and thought it slow, boring, and basically non-sensical. People, even under the most dire of circumstances just don't act that way. I see how it influences such things as Logan's Run and Nineteen Eighty-four. I don't like dystopias as a genre, so that's two strikes right there, then slow and boring -- yup, strike three.

This is my personal opinion and will have only the bearing of one negative vote when the time comes. If it is selected, I might do a rebel read that month, maybe a real dystopian work, all three volumes of The Gulag Archipelago.

84: Wow, my mom just gave me a hardcover set of Gulag Archipelago and Chris says he has read it through the end of Vol. II then even though he's really interested in Sovietology he had to abandon it.

We have read other works that had influence on others that were not so hot in and of themselves and I still think that is an interesting use of our time. It may be bad form to bring this up but I want the official Salon 2012 reading thread to show that I, personally, don't resent the time I spent reading either either the Schiller or the Norris (nudge nudge), even though they were both slow and boring and various other things - so there geneg.

Slick--I think you more or less gave my opinion of V and the bit I read of GR as well. BUT, I was bored to bare intestinals by Crying of Lot 49.

I'm also a Pynchon virgin, and apt to stay one unless I explore him with the group. Pound's Cantos, any later James (with Gene, of course), a Zola, and either Dead Souls or Crime and Punishment--all sound good to me.

I had given up on Pynchon when an LT friend recommended Slow Learner. I gave it a shot and was very pleasantly surprised.

I loved V and liked The Crying of Lot 49. I tried Gravity's Rainbow once and stopped for a reason I can no longer recall. I'd probably try it again. I slogged through Mason and Dixon--and it was a slog--at the advice of a friend. The friendship survived, but I no longer accept reading suggestions from him.

The complete short stories of Chekov -multiple volumes, Russian, many fabulous gems? Please no Colin Wilson. Angry young men are so passe these days. I am ready for Zola any day, but please, please can we skip Conrad? I feel this is not my Conrad decade. I did that in my thirties.

How many slots do we have to fill at this point?

We have all the slots to fill, yet. There are some books that many wish to read and will undoubtedly be on the final list we create in September, The White Whale comes to mind as an example. Right now we are gathering candidates. I would like to do four certified door-stoppers, one per quarter, along with seven more normal sized reads. That gives us eleven months of reading with eleven things to read. Remember June is a free month, use how you will. I see tomes beginning in January, April, July, and October. December is an odd month so December needs to be something quick. Something along the lines of Chateau d'Argol.

Right now we're just throwing out ideas.

Considering the sheer size of what passes for a tome in this group, we are going to have to establish some ground rules for tomes/non-tomes. Is the whale a tome? Well, yes, when compared to the average novel, not so much when speaking of things like Infinite Jest, Finnegan's Wake, or 2666. So I'm going to need guidance on the definition of a tome.

For me, a "tome" gets defined either by a certain amount of pages and/or its density/difficulty to parse.

For my tag "tome," I require 750 pages to be tagged as such. However, there are works shorter than that that can still legitimately be called "tomes," imo, due to their difficulty, like Mann's Doctor Faustus, which, at 510 pages in my edition, I'd still call a tome.

I think, minimum, the book has to be at least 500 pages and very difficult to garner tome status. At 750 pages, it's an automatic tome.

EF, that is a very well thought out description of a tome. I'd never thought about it before, for me it would be as gene says, a door-stopper, but I like your definition better. Someone contact the OED people post-haste!

Seems like everything we've been discussing might be considered a tome!

Any interest in Lawrence Durrell's Alexandria Quartet or The Avignon Quintet (or Avignon Quincunx, as he liked to call it)?

I'm very interested in The Avignon Quintet!

I've always wanted to read Durrell, so a hearty YES! on either.

I'd support a read of the Avignon Quintet

Any interest in Patrick White - perhaps Riders in the Chariot or Voss
Or D H Lawrence - The Plumed Serpent

I'd be happy to lead on Patrick White or D H Lawrence, could even be persuaded to lead on the Durrell.

Justine is on my list already.

So youse guyz are saying we could read a quartet or a quintet and call it a tome? The Alexandria Quartet probably runs between 1000 and 1400 pages. I expect The Avignon Quintet runs between 1400 and 1700 pages. I think if something like that were going to be scheduled, I'd rather do it as a six-month, or yearlong read over and above the regular month to month and single volume tomes. Don't forget, also, that instead of people having to buy one book they must acquire four or five. It could run up the expense a good bit.

As the Greeks were prone to say, on the other hand, it would open our horizons to include some series that might fit with Le Salon's reading style. To do a series once a year could be a good thing or not depending on the series. Maybe one year we could read The Waverley Novels, or, as is the case, nearly all Scott's ouvre. Or I know, Vampires, and other eldritch beasties. Wait! Isn't there some place else in LT where you can read that stuff? Do we need it here in Le Salon? I don't think so. But then I could inflict the entire five volumes of The Leatherstocking Tales on you, heh, heh.

In short, there can be a place for series here, let's choose wisely, however, and not more than one per annum.

I have tried and tried to like Durrell, and I just don't get him. I slogged through the entire Alex. Quartet feeling mocked for my bourgeois stupidity in not getting or caring why I should get his characters and their issues and escapades. So I don't know if I am into slogging through yet another bunch of books by him.

If we're reading series how about Robertson Davies? I read the (Deptford? I forget the name, the one that starts with Fifth Business) trilogy, and the Cornish trilogy and liked them very much, and I think there's another one that was previously recommended to me by someone in this group.

The Avignon Quintet is available in a one-volume edition and it's under 1400 pages. Just FYI

Davies would be worth the trouble.

I like your series idea, gene. After all, it seems that all we do when we're not posting is reading (or doing paid work--how annoying).

I propose A Dance to the Music of Time or ooohhh Gormenghast Trilogy anyone? That would be so wonderful. And I can attest that if you put the three books together in one, like I've got, it's a tome. Will stop doors, and small dogs. Actually, they might qualify singly. 1168 pgs in toto.

Peake!

#101

Anna, maybe you just suffer from having good taste, Durrell is dreckmeister supreme. But it's rare fun shredding him (his pretensions are genuinely funny), so I hope there IS a Durrell read sometime. The tomato season has started! I'll bring a barrel of ripe 'uns.

I've liked all Davies I read so far (Deptford; The rebel angels). Folio Society came out with a beautiful edition of the Deptford trilogy that I tragically missed, having underestimated the interest others had in it. Illustrated by Peter Suart, in the perfect phantasmagorical style.

So I can come out of the closet now and say I find Lawrence Durrell terribly pretentious? His younger brother, Gerry, on the other hand, is delightful reading. I particularly like his descriptions of "Larry". Of course, a group read of Gerry is not really necessary.

Davies is definitely worth considering as a "series" author.

There's also Galsworthy's Forsyte saga.

I had a Durrell epiphany, well two actually. I read him first when I was 18 and he literally changed my life. He started my love affair with Greece, put me in touch with many new writers I would never have encountered, especially the modern Greek poets. I read everything he wrote several times, I have an old battered copy of his collected poems, which has travelled with me all around Greece, I read his voluminous correspondence with Henry Miller, and every study and biography I could get my hands on.

Then I read the Quartet again about 5 years ago, and oh dear, he does not stand up to the ravages of time. I remain loyal to him, however, out of affection for the heady days of my youth. He is very well regarded in France. Perhaps his purple prose translates into French better than it does into English. I think he is a young man's writer.

All this talk of choosing books for next year is tremendously diverting. At my latest count we have enough material to keep us going for about 7 years, 5 months and 2.5 weeks.

I would love to do a read of Davies, lead by Porius, of course.

My vote for Davies too.

We are getting a little cwazie about our what to read already. I think it might be pfun to have some free form discussions about these books. Why was Scott important in the development of the novel? Etcetera. Zounds, the discussion could go most anywhere. Austens' close, Scott's Big Bow Wowing, his penchant for scrap iron. A stream of unconsciousness thread. Follow the argument where it leads thread.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FJwVSK7Xebw/TawD42tpNMI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/b6Ey7vCVsLs/s1600/...
Anything, the novels, the reviews, the letters, would not be a waste of time.

Perhaps it's time to start making some decisions so we can see where we need to fill in the blanks. The implication is we have enough tomes. What is missing at this point, if anything?

Decisions will be made in September. This thread is for ideas and discussion. Be patient, September will arrive soon enough. What need is there for pressure and hurry. If the sun doesn't rise in September, believe me, what we will read in 2012 will be the least of our worries. Now is for dreaming, for talking, for thinking, and for making arguments. Had we made our decision a month ago how much would we have missed? A month ago this thread did not exist and we had only discussed two or three books prior to that time. Patience.

but Gene, the end of the world is scheduled for May 21st!

I did not wish to seem impatient -- somehow I forgot the bit about September. No prob.

re:>114 QuentinTom: He's right, you know. It's been announced on a billboard.

>109 QuentinTom: , Murr: Now I see the problem. I never was a young man and now I am an old lady! Clearly, Durrell was never intended for the likes of me.

C'mon. Tell me you guys don't want to read this. To enter into the seductive, dense world of Gormenghast, fall under its eldritch (to borrow a word from gene) spell.

I thought the end of the world was scheduled for 12/31/12. Or maybe on Christmas Day 2012. Not mid-year. Boy I think I want to be on a cruise aboard a slow boat to China when it is supposed to happen. As looney and paranoid as some Americans seem to be, it promises to be interesting. The change from 1999 to 2000, while accompanied by the usual bump as we pass through the year-gate on 01/01, was also accompanied by people who built fortresses in their backyards, bought tens of cartons of canned goods and water, and were ready to fight off those who had not properly planned for the end of the computer age and all the problems that would cause. Those people, for the most part, still aren't over their millennial madness and probably won't be until 2050 or so. Remember we have the 2,000th anniversary of Jesus' crucifixion coming up in 2033 or 2034, I'm not sure which. If the world doesn't end next year the crazies will be out in full force then.

I remember once when I was in high school, I don't remember the year, it seems it was around 1960, the Hindu's in India went bat-shit over the end of the world. Millions gathered at various sacred places to await the return of Vishnu or something. I wish all those who hate life so much that they can't wait for it to end would do the lemming thing and all jump off a cliff. Waiting for the end of the world is a mug's game.

Can anyone tell me - have we left the Age of Pisces yet? That's when it will all get strange.

Mervyn P would understand.

Everybody should read Gormenghast.

If we are talking series, shouldn't we consider Balzac's La Comédie humaine? There's enough in that series to last the remainder of the decade (superfluous, I know, since the world is ending).

I recently read Gormenghast, and I don't see myself re-reading it very soon. I've always meant to read some Davies, so I'd probably join in some for his works.

Raja Rao, The Chessmaster and His Moves, seems a perfect fit for this group.

Wow. A "new" writer. Thanks for the tip, Rick. And thanks for the touchstone, Poquette.

I've never heard of this writer, even though he's listed in my Contemporary Novelists compendium -- somehow missed him. I think I'll skip up to him for my next entry in that slow thread, itemizing all 556 writers, that I began a couple weeks ago. A writer like Raja Rao just might generate more interest there.

Here's a quick snippet from Perry D. Westbrook on Rao and his novels The Serpent and the Rope and The Cat and Shakespeare:

"The intellectual demands that Raja Rao, roaming at large through world history and among the religions, philosophies, and literatures of Europe and Asia, makes upon his readers are unequalled in any modern novel since ... The Magic Mountain. Though he quotes at length from a bewildering assortment of languages, he provides translations in the case of only one -- Sanskrit. The reader is flatteringly assumed to be fluent in Latin ... Italian, Old French, and other tongues."

Why not Finnegan's Wake, as the book, I am guessing, most wished read, least read among Salon compatriots?

Why not Finnegan's Fake?

Glad you asked (warning: secret messages are contained herein):

odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; what a colossal waste of unparalled talent! I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls. It's irritating looking for meaning when there is none--isn't it! oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I'm all for experimental fiction and the implementation of an invented language or hard to understand dialects & colloquialisms (i.e. "Riddley Walker," "A Clockwork Orange," "Beloved," even LOR)I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv but the invented language or dialect should be more than what amounts to the (here's a psychiatric term for ya)--"word salad" of a schizophrenic.eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv Tell me it isn't true that Joyce spent the last 18 years of his life on this! eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks How could such a genius succumb to such literary lunacy? Nietzsche went mad, so why not Joyce? ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop There's a modern day Joyce among us making the same mistake...his name is Mark Z. Danielewski. "Only Revolutions" is Danielewski's Finnegans Wake...unreadable, meaningless gibberish...suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap Aren't words supposed to mean something? Did Joyce die in 1922 and a chimpanzee take his place at the typewriter?uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn Please don't tell me Samuel Beckett actually "helped" Joyce finish FW...what was Beckett doing wasting his time on such a mumbo-jumboish monstrosity? cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! Needless to say, I did not enjoy Finnegans Wake. odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks Those of you who like it, I fear, want to be perceived as accomplished, enlightened readers. Truth is, you like it only because you think its very highbrow of you to like it, to adore it, in fact, and praise the word play and language, when all it is is Joycean Junk! ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop How could the author of Dubliners, The Portrait...and Ulysses, have sunk so low into experimentation? All you Jackson Pollack lovers out there probably worship Finnegans Wake don't you!?suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e I hate Finnegan's Wake geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!! odis ufjnms pqoiskj as sjhhsug Fuck FW iufjv eisls oiucmb; odus jfbxa hu hu opsldks; I ytrmnbdks ytqlk doguri asdpoi a sviei syu ivngd rmhd rlsp ewpom emjs lowp ajsh. usyt sjbn cwirs qwpop suug ap uiuuis wislg e geir jsipocj!!!

FW(IW): it was fun to recognise the paragraphs of the text which were in Dutch; it was decidedly less fun to continuously be unsure what the topic of was. I can't say I've even 'met' any of the characters. If ever there was a book that I've slogged my way through, it was Finnegans Wake. Waste of time really, because I came away with absolutely nothing. Well, I can boast now that I've 'read' it. (i.e. vocalised all the text in my head as best as I could).

128. Well, I guess that's that then. I'm happy to leave FW alone.

Go ahead, pick FW. That will give me two months of free reading instead of only one.

> 128: 'Those of you who like it, I fear, want to be perceived as accomplished, enlightened readers. Truth is, you like it only because you think its very highbrow of you to like it, to adore i...'

Very un-EF of you.

I read Danielewski's first book in manuscript, thought it was hellishly dull and very badly written and it became a mini-phenomenon. I don't know anything about his further work.

Blame that bass turd James Joyce, Rick! He brings out the worst in me!

I swim amongst the bass turds, even the sopranos

The bassweedgins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p856CfM64w8

hilarious, poriously so

How about a summer 2012 reading of Don Quijote de la Mancha? It's a pleasant book to read when the weather's nice. It also goes well with a lot of other books, and would be fun to read in a group setting where people bring many different literary interests to the table.

I'd love to read Don Quixote.

>138 absurdeist: Me, too.

What's stopping you?

Gene is! He won't let us read what we want to read until he tells us in Sept. what he'll allow us to read in 2012. Gene, he's such a dicktater!

I AM THE GREAT OZ!! I COMMAND YOU -- CLICK YOUR HEELS TOGETHER THREE TIMES, SPIN AROUND THREE TIMES, GRAB THE QUIXOTE AND READ.

Otherwise, take your chances. We're getting a last of ideas and the Quixote is far down the request tree. However, it might be salvaged by its tome status.

Anyone interested in some Grahame Green?

an -e with wanderlust there? But yes, I'd rather read Graham Greene than the Quixote.

Travels with My Aunt.

I never can remember where that damn thing goes in his name. But then spelling is becoming a problem for me. I spend more time thinking about spelling than I have done in the past. Sometimes I spell a word several ways before my spell checker drops the red line. I never used to have to do that. Perfect spelling in all things used to flow from my fingers like the Mississippi when it hits the Atchafalaya. Not anymore, though.

Any interest in Don Fernando? My favorite Maugham.

Don Fernando looks promising to me. I'd welcome a reason to reread Don Quixote.

Always an interest.

I'd probably join in on a Don Quixote read.

Gene if the non-fic Australian history read gets in, can we leave it open and not necessarily tie it down to A Fatal Shore? I'm still tossing up other possibilities, such as Commonwealth of Thieves.

Nothing is finally decided with regard to what we read in the Aussie history section.

I read Fatal Shore and it's fine, but I think the Aussie ought to choose, especially if it is something I haven't read.

I vote against Don Quixote because it has been read so much, while the group reads seem best disposed to introduce something new to most (i thought this while looking at Raja Rao on my shelf): going through the posts above quickly I saw Davies, White, Terra Nostra...

I've read the Don once before, and I'm busy with Gormenghast - it's Peake's centennial, btw - so maybe not those two.

Can we please, please have some poetry? I saw someone mentioned Pound's Cantos, which could be interesting. I dislike Pound as a human being, but that doesn't really matter (too much) in reading his poetry.

Davies sounds good as well.

After it was mentioned here, I found Pound's Cantos at a library sale for 50 cents and bought it on the off chance that we read it next year. Now I just have to get a copy of Faerie Queene.

Poetry poetry poetry please

Might it be an idea to pick a poetry anthology that could be read throughout the year. I have just read a review of The Longman anthology of Gothic verse which put the thought in my head. There are plenty of others to choose from at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Poetry_anthologies

I'd be really interested in the Australian history read, whichever book we end up with.

I've tried to search for a relevant joint Australian-New Zealand history book, but apart from a book by Sutherland published in 1901 I couldn't find anything.

However, for keen students of Australasia, I provide this Wiki linK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_%E2%80%93_New_Zealand_relations

There is a further link from here to something titled 'Etiquette in Australia and New Zealand'!!!

In another thread, Freeque mentioned Sea of Fertility as a potential group read in 2012..

I've got my closed, not looking at the other 156 posts in this thread...gently dropping the name Robertson Davies ...stepping out again

Love Davies but he's not a difficult read.

Agree, Davies couldn't be called difficult or a tome - but I think we've moved away from tome-only group reads. This could be a palate cleanser?

Re the Australian read, there are two very different ideas I have here so far - either something along the lines of Fatal Shore or Commonwealth of Thieves, which is convict and early settlement history, or otherwise maybe The Chant of Jimmie Blacksmith, based on a true story, about a fair-skinned Aboriginal man's living hell. The latter is not a long read, but it's a very difficult one.

have you read for the term of his natural life by Marcus Clarke?

Yes, most of it. It's a good read, but sooo sentimental. Still gives a fairly good picture as I understand it of convict life and governmental brutality.

Has anyone mentioned George Sand, Virginia Woolf, Steinbeck, Italo Calvino? Is there any interest?

Choc - I did a tagmash of Australia, History and Literature and found this list: http://www.librarything.com/tag/Australia,+history,+literature

Anyone know anything about The Songlines by Bruce Chatwin?
Any interest in Carpentaria by by Alexis Wright (not a history book...and I haven't read it, it's on my TBR - won several awards, including Miles Franklin Literary Award (2007), ALS Gold Medal (2007), Victorian Premier's Award for Fiction, Queensland Premier's Award for Fiction (2007), Australian Book Industry Awards (Australian Literary Fiction Book of the Year, 2007))?...at least the LT work page says so)

I would say yes yes yes to Sea of Fertility. It would also become my first Salon group read although I've been lingering here since the very beginning almost.

I'd be reasonably interested in Carpentaria.
Never heard of the Chatwin, looks interesting (though that's not exactly a 'vote' on my part, Gene).
Interesting list there, Dan, though of course the quality varies widely.

The Songlines is brilliant, would be quite different to what was first intended as an Australian read (being by an outsider and impressionistic rather than factual history), but I would be happy to re-read it...

The Songlines is a masterpiece. choco you must read it, asap. If mackie was here and not on his Greek Island, he would agree with me. He did two huge pieces on Chatwin:

http://macumbeira-macumbeira.blogspot.com/search/label/Bruce%20Chatwin

#165/6 Murr & Z - thanks. Hope Mac sees this sometime, would like to ask him his thoughts too. My library has it, so I've requested a copy. I've wanted to read Chatwin for a bit now (partly because of a Mac review). This is maybe a good place to start.

In Patagonia is a good place to start re Chatwin IMHO

I'd be more than happy to read some Italo Calvino. Earlier in the thread was Evgeny Onegin, which I'd love to read again. The Songlines looks really good.

I'd like to read Darkmans and I think it wouldbe easier to finish and more fun as a group read.

I would also like to read a John Barth tome. I already have (and have not read) Sot-Weed and Giles. Any interest?

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

I'm reading me a Henry James short story right now, "The Last of the Valerii," and it's a supernatural dandy.

Oh I pray that the powers-that-Gene will grant us some Henry James -- I'm so little read in him it's obscene.

Yes to Bruce Chatwin.
Yes to Italo Calvino.
Yes to Songlines.
Yes to Nicola Barker's magnum opus (at least so far) Darkmans
Yes to John Barth. Having read both of those superb pomotomes, I'd prefer from what I've gathered is his most difficult tome of tomes, Letters: A Novel, but I'd be happy with Sot Weed or Giles, though between the two, I'd pick Giles first.

I bought Portrait of a Lady at my local secondhand bookshop the other day. Gene, herewith a vote. Rique, if your 'little' of HJ is obscene, what about my 'none at all'???

I'd love to read Portrait of a Lady. And your 'none at all', Muse, is obscenely obscene! But your E.T.A. Hoffmann review makes up for it.

Couple of more suggestions (as if we don't have enough already):

Roadside Picnic the book upon which Tarkovsky's film Stalker was based. Only a short read - might be nice to follow it up with a viewing of the film itself.

Non fiction - for the more esoterically minded (and I know who you are):

The Philosophers' Secret Fire: A History of the Imagination.....

Mmmm. Tarkovsky.

I do enjoy Roadside Picnic. And it is short. When I picked up a copt I had to get it from the UK (I'm in America) because it was hard to find. Maybe it's easier to get now?

I like the idea of a Henry James. I'll have to think about it. I read Portrait of a Lady a couple of years ago and have more unread James to read than to do a re-read. I'll cogitate over an H. James. It won't be from his more difficult later period. I don't want to frighten anyone away from him.

It's been twenty-plus years since I read Giles Goat-Boy and even longer for The Sot-Weed Factor. I was in high school when I read it. I thought it hilarious. I own a copy of Giles, but not Sot-Weed, so if I pick a Barth it's likely to be Giles.

We have so many excellent suggestions, wishes and so forth that we won't be able to get everything in. I am also claiming as my reward for herding this particular group of cats, naming one read by and for myself. Don't worry, it won't be another The Octopus.

I'm not sure where the conversation is at now but I'd do Cities of Salt or Under the Volcano or War and Peace or a re-read of Their Eyes Were Watching God. Y'all are cool.

War and Peace would be good—I read a third of it last year when I got... um... distracted. I do that a lot with longer works. It's not that I'm not enjoying them, but I tend to have too many things going at the same time. I'm sure none of you know what that's like.

Por keeps talking about Rembrandt's Eyes...

Yes I do Choc. A book that MUST be read. No two ways about it.

Also, if we do poetry as a group read, how about John Donne?

Was excited with Rembrandt's Eyes...until I saw the $55 price tag...

Z - can you tell any more about The Philosophers' Secret Fire, I'm interested.

dan - I don't have the book but am tempted to purchase it.

The esoteric tradition, largely hidden unless you actively seek it out, is increasingly interesting to me. This book seems a good primer for such a topic. Those sceptics among us (I am one myself) will find lots to debate I think.

the best introduction to the European esoteric is Foucault's Pendulum. Following up all the references in that would be a great way to learn more, I should think.

Z. how about a thread devoted to the Occult Tradition in Europe and elsewhere. It could even include that Swiss Tweedledum.

Cities of Salt is as close to a lock for 2012 as it gets. The reason: I have a leader for it. See the IP.

P. specific thread on the Swiss Tweedledum is planned in my head for later this year, early next year. Keep a look out for it!

ooooh, I have a friend who is writing his thesis on the politics of Meister Eckhardt. ?!?!?!?!?!?, of course, but also maybe he can recommend/lead a good read.

If we read Donne's poetry, we should throw in some prose for good measure. He was a master in both.

Any interest in a James Agee read?

I've got but not read Let Us Now Praise Famous Men. Why not?

#190-1 : who? I might be interested, if I knew why I should be.

A Death in the Family alone might perk your interest. Much controversy surrounding that book, which version did the author intend to be published, etc.

Resurrecting this thread with my biased summation of it here:

Cities of Salt Urania1 has graciously consented to lead this or something by Mahfouz.

Germinal - needs a leader for this

The Fatal Shore For a non-fiction read. Later, Songlines was suggested and I think some work of Bruce Chatwin was also considered a lock.

Other books that seemed well received:
Dead Souls or Eugene Onegin or War and Peace
Pedro Paramo was suggested and a short read or two would be welcome.

Henry James and Jos. Conrad were mentioned a few times. Mont St. Michel? Nostromo?

Pound's Cantos as a loose year-long exploration seemed like a great idea.

There was some discussion of using Eco's thriller Foucault's Pendulum as a jumping off point for exploring Western occult tradition. That would be fun and play to the strengths of some of our members.

Mervyn Peake got tossed out, and, fortuitously, the trilogy has been reissued - or is about to be.

Cervantes was a great suggestion. And author Raja Rao sounds worth checking out.

An author read with Mr. Rick Harsch would be welcome, I should think. Either a published work or, at his discretion, something not yet published.

Finally - I would suggest Mishima's Fertitlity books. Dynamite reading; it would follow up some themes from Magic Mountain; and offer plenty to talk about.

Plenty enough to go at there slick and I will put in my twopennoth immediately:

Pounds Cantos as a loose year long exploration sounds great

Likewise an author read with Rick Harsch

Cities of salt as we have already got a leader

Germinal also sounds good to me

Foucault's Pendulum would also get my vote.

happy organising slick

Yes on Foucault's Pendulum, I just read it for the first time last year.

Germinal sounds great, can someone lead?

Author read with Rick yes!

Pedro Paramo for a short read, yes.

Others I have not thought much about or don't know much about.

Thanks for revivifying this, Slick. I was thinking of resurrecting the 2012 thread in a slightly more procedural fashion, to settle questions like are we doing tomes and small reads? if so, how many? etc., and then settle on specific reads by means of a vote after some discussion. Would that be useful?

Yes. With a date for the end of discussion - maybe end of the month?

P.S. to all - consider the suggestion of a Backhouse/Leys/Trevor-Roper read on Murr's thread beginning on message 10 or so through 18 : http://www.librarything.com/topic/124780

That was the plan! Okay.

I want Foucault's Pendulum. I begged, to no avail, to teach a research/literary detective class on Foucault's Pendulum in which the students would be divided into to groups to chase down all the esoteric references. The end result would have been a website devoted to the class's findings. Alas, I never got to teach the course.

Great idea; would have been a lot of fun!

How did Peake get tossed out? I say toss him back in!!!! Then we can take advantage of that fortuitous re-issuance.

Did everybody forget about Moby-Dick?

or, how to catch and butcher a whale, and why and who with

Revisiting Foucault could be fun. As would Peake.

War & Peace would be great. Onegin would be very good, as well. Dead Souls would also be fine.

I'll always be up for visiting with Quixote and Sancho Panza.

I'd prefer an alternate Moby Dick in which the whale swallows Ishmael within the first 5 chapters, after which he's spat out, becomes a real boy, then missionizes the Ninevites while wishing they'd all be swallowed by fire from heaven.

I'd indicated I was on-board for co-leading a re-reading of Moby Dick, or The Whale, assuming a-nother co-leader could be found. But, the Whale is eternal, and will wait for another year if this one is taken.

Tuirgin, clearly, you haven't read it recently, since that happens, though later than the 5th chapter.

I read it last year. Or, I should say, I started it last year, with the last attempt before that being probably 20 years ago. My preference is for Ishmael to bite it shortly after the honeymoon chapter. I tend to root for the whale. I'm almost envious of those who love the book, but I despise it the way some people despise Shakespeare.

(Psst. Melville often roots for the whale, too).

For the wary or weary, I don't think it's necessary to finish the book to appreciate it. Many a chapter stands on its own as a rumination on this world and perhaps another. And Melville's all in favor of seeing the book despised: he viewed it as a "wicked book", "broiled in hell-fire".

Moby Dick may be one of those books I return to every so many years to see if perhaps we've changed and perhaps we can appreciate each other. My two biggest criticisms are that it's stylistically all over the place -- no sense of the unity I've come to expect from literature -- and the symbolism is about as subtle as a country parson from Flannery O'Connor's Deep South. Maybe one day Ishmael, Queequeg, Ahab, the Great Albino Sperm, and I can all sit down over rum runners and come to terms with one another.

can we merge this thread with this one. I'm getting cross eyed:

http://www.librarything.com/topic/124997#t