BR - raving mad in a oddly satisfying manner

Isaiah group read - roughly April 2015

Here are links to all our previous threads.

from le Salon:
Prep: http://www.librarything.com/topic/127545
Genesis: http://www.librarything.com/topic/129966
Exodus: http://www.librarything.com/topic/131811
Leviticus: http://www.librarything.com/topic/133405
Numbers: http://www.librarything.com/topic/135184
Deuteronomy: www.librarything.com/topic/136380
Joshua: http://www.librarything.com/topic/137927
Judges (same thread as Joshua, starts on post #69): http://www.librarything.com/topic/137927#3452932
Ruth (same thread as Joshua, starts on post #142): http://www.librarything.com/topic/137927#3478722
1 & 2 Samuel: http://www.librarything.com/topic/139684
1 & 2 Kings: http://www.librarything.com/topic/142552
1 & 2 Chronicles: http://www.librarything.com/topic/146697
Ezra and Nehemiah: http://www.librarything.com/topic/154880
Tobit & Judith: http://www.librarything.com/topic/159435

from Club Read 2014:
Ester http://www.librarything.com/topic/168909
Job: https://www.librarything.com/topic/171374
Psalms: https://www.librarything.com/topic/179892
Proverbs: https://www.librarything.com/topic/183854

from Club Read 2015:
Ecclesiastes: https://www.librarything.com/topic/187190
Song of Songs: https://www.librarything.com/topic/188278

Isaiah preaches judgment. He raves, and condemns and promises. And does this all in the manner you kind of expect a raving angry preacher to do this. It's oddly satisfying. Truth be told, this is great stuff, at least IMHO.

Isaiah is also one of the most important parts of the bible for understanding the NT. Isaiah is hugely influential on Jesus directly, who quotes him in dramatic and important ways, and on how others characterized Jesus. Here is Immanuel, the coming Messiah, but, more important, here is the suffering servant who humbly follows God despite the ostracism he inspires. A lot of quotes and ideas here have made there way into the NT.

It's also really long. 66 chapters. I can't do this chapter by chapter, or maybe not even by my starred notes...I have so many stars. I loved this stuff. Really. So, I will try to find another way.

But, hey, whose in? Anyone?

Isaiah has some scholarly controversy. This is somewhat interesting, but it also compromises my notes. Wikipedia has a nice summary of this in the summary section here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Isaiah

Basically there is a older and newer scholarly perspective. The older version picks Isaiah apart as a serious of miscellaneous bits and pieces sewn together. It then tries to divide these up. This leads to the ideas of the Second Isaiah and the Third Isaiah, sections that are considered later additions to an older original work. The new perspective sees a unified whole, and divides the book into two parts.

Older view big picture
Chapters 1 - 39 - First Isaiah, from the 8th century BCE prophet
Chapters 40 - 55 - Second Isaiah, or Deutero-Isaiah - from Babylon in the 6th century BCE
Chapters 56 - 66 - Third Isaiah, or Trito-Isaiah - from Judah after the return from exile

Newer view big picture
Chapters 1 - 33 - Sets out the themes of judgement and subsequent restoration for the righteous, and predicts the Messiah
Chapters 34 - 66 - talks about the return to Jerusalem and preaches about the benefits of the righteous. Hezekiah is seen as an ideally righteous. Babylon is seen as the Judgment - i.e. no more future judgment day.

The problem for me is that my HarperCollins editions specifically discards the newer ideas. So, instead of a balanced view, the notes are essentially biased by withholding information. (The editor of the section is named in the intro, not typical for this HarperCollins edition. His name is J. J. M. Roberts*)

*ETA he has a wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Jack_McBee_Roberts

Again I'm late, I started to read the HC intro that's all. I didn't know about the different analyses, that's interesting.

Also I was thinking that I might take up the Yale lessons again. They were very interesting but at one point they diverged from our reading schedule and I didn't finish watching them. Lessons 15 to 19 are about the prophets. I stopped at 17 but I should probably go back and rewatch from 15.

I would certainly be interested in what you learn from the Yale classes.

Might just be us two this time...

Hi guys, I'm going to try and read along with you, from a very old Collins Good News bible.

Dan - what way do you run this? Do you wait until everyone has read the whole book and then have a discussion, or do people chip in with comments as they go?

Alison, I don't really have a way, but glad you are reading along. You are welcome to post anything and at any time.

In the past I started the thread, then started to read the book and posted as I read. There were several of us then and we all posted. That was too complicated so I started trying to get ahead and then post when I had time. Well, now, I've already read the book and taken written notes (33 pages of them). So, what I will do is work my way though my notes. It should take a while. It may not be very obvious, but I do actually try to keep my posts interesting. : )

Dan your posts are always interesting!

I'm at about Chapter 21. Working my way through a lot of punishments.... Look forward to your notes - I'm sure you'll straighten out a lot of questions I have in my mind.

Thanks Alison. Chapter 21 already? You're flying.

Some notes on the introduction by Jimmy Jack McBee Roberts. His is the the old school perspective, which is not necessarily wrong.

Anyway, First Isaiah - chapters 1-39

Timing:
The prophet Isaiah is dated to be active roughly 738 to 701 BCE, but possibly to 688. This is during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah. A lot happened in this period
- 735-732 - Northern Kingdom of Israel fights Syria (Syro-Ephraimite War)
- 721 - fall of the Northern Kingdom of Israel to Assyria
- 720 -710 - period of "agitation against Sargon II" of Assyria, by Judah
- 705-701 - Hezekiah's revolt. This is when Assyrian wipes out most of Judah, and sieges but does not capture Jerusalem. In one perspective, Hezekiah played his hand poorly pushing for Judah's independence from Assyria's influence. Judah paid for it. But, since Jerusalem stood, Hezekiah comes out a hero.

Odd note - at some point in here the Philistine cities ask for support from Judah and Egypt to help against Assyria. The Egyptian support is promised but never shows up. Isaiah will rant against helping and against Egypt.

There are claims that many of the oracles in these chapters are original from this era, and maybe they are. JMBR tries to pick them out. For what it's worth:

"Genuine Oracles" (according to JMBR)
chapters 1-5 against Northern Israel
chapters 6-11 on Syro-Ephraimite War
chapters 13 -23 against foreign nations*
chapters 28-33 Hezekiah's revolt against Sennacherib

*My own notes on the nations:
Babylon - 13, 14:1-23, 21:1-10, 22:1-8
Assyria - 14:24-27
Philistia - 14:28-31, 20
Moab - 15 & 16
Damascus (Aram) - 17
Ephraim - 17
Ethiopia - 18 & 20
Egypt - 19 & 20
Edom - 34:5-7 (& 8-14)
Arabia - 21:11-17
Jerusalem - 22 (against ??, I don't recall)
Tyre - 23
Moab - 25:10-12

"clear inserts" (clear according to JMBR)
chapters 24-27 - protoapocalyptic
chapters 34-35 - "style of second Isaiah"
chapters 36-37 - copied from 2 Kings 18:13 to 20:19 (ok, this is, at least, 100% legitimate)

more coming....

JMBR also lists key passages. Worth posting for reference. This is still on the first Isaiah

6:1-4 - Isaiah's inaugural vision
1:21-28 & 29:1-8 - Judgment is necessary to purify morally corrupt Jerusalem, for God's return
7:3-17 - to Ahaz, showing Isaiah's adherence to the Davidic line
8:18 - God lives in Jerusalem
9:1-7, 11:1-10, 32:1-2 - ideal king
14:31 - God founded Jerusalem

on the Second Isaiah - chapters 40 to 55

This section covers the end of the Babylonian captivity, when the Persian Emperor Cyrus (ruled 545 - 539) allows the Israelites to return to Judea. The theme here is a promise of deliverance by God without threats of Judgment. (I assuming deliverance would probably mean something like the paradise of an independent Jerusalem ruling the world through God's presence) The message is consolation. JMBR notes the oracles are especially lyrical in this section

Wikipedia adds:

- chapters 40-48 - emphasis on Israel, chapters 49-54 - emphasis on Zion & Jerusalem
- 2nd Isaiah includes two introductions and a conclusion with the salvation of Jerusalem announced
- 2nd Isaiah includes the four servants songs (these are important and curious). Chapters 42, 49, 50, & 52:13-53:12

iirc, this is where the New Exodus is. That is trek from Babylon to Judah is compared to the Exodus from Egypt under Moses.

On the Third Isaiah - chapters 55 to 66

This section deals with the harsh reality after the return to Judah. Since there is no paradise, instead just a lot of rebuilding and apostasy, the section is reduced to promising deliverance will come.

Overall

JMBR notes the flow, from Judgment to salvation. And he notes that the later part of the book references the earlier parts, and then modifies, responds or reverses the earlier meanings.

From wikipedia, here is the structure of same book from the (newer) two-part unified book theory

Part I

Chapters 1-4 - gives themes of Judgment, restoration and the idea of Jerusalem as the center of world rule and instruction
Chapters 5-12 - on the significance of Assyrias Judgment against Israel - i.e. destruction of the northern kingdom
Chapters 12-27 - preparation for God's rule, god being Yahweh, translated blandly as "the Lord"
Chapters 28-33 - on the Messiah due after Babylon falls (yes, bad guys changed from Assyria to Babylon)

Part II

Chapters 34-35 - How Yahweh will return
Chapters 36-39 - Hezekiah as an ideal king
Chapters 40-54 - Restoration to Judah. wikipedia says Cyrus is presented as Messiah here. That's not how I read it though.
Chapters 55-66 - keep the covenant and look forward to God's plan

Other interesting tidbits from wikipedia:

Isaiah may represent an opposition to the Deuteronomist reform. (That is the idea that Deuteronomy was added during Josiah's reign with the purpose of reforming the religion.) Isaiah is supposed to be 738 to 701 and Josiah comes later at 640-609. So, the idea is the the Deuteronomists were gaining momentum.

A theory:
Perhaps the sections in verse may represent original prophecies. Then the sections in prose were written later, sort of as commentary. We have seen this elsewhere.

UN
The UN's unofficial mission statement comes from Isaiah 2:4 -

they shall beat their swords into ploughshares,
and their spears into pruning-hooks;
nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall they learn war any more.

Prophet quibbling:
Amos and Michah claim that righteousness is associated with the covenant and comes basically from following the rules and honoring the covenant. Isaiah says righteousness comes from God's holiness. That's an important half step toward Christianity, which abandoned all the Jewish laws.

Stump of Jesse
11:1 "A shoot shall come out from the stock of Jesse, and a branch shall grow out of his roots."

Isaiah 10:33 to 11:10 was a big deal in the Roman era and around the birth of Christianity. The stump of Jesse is referenced in several other works, including in the Second Isaiah here. It was seen as a reference to a or the Messiah.

Christianity
There are lots of important references to Isaiah in the New Testament. Instead of summarizing, I'll just point to the Christianity section the Book of Isaiah wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Isaiah

OK, enough of that info blasting. My next goal is to work through the chapters.

Thanks for all of the above, Dan. I'm going to refer back to your notes as I read on, as they really help with context, and it's good to have in mind what sections are more likely to have been original text.

The timings on the important wars was very useful as the last few chapters were starting to melt my brain trying to figure out all the links.

Interesting Wikipedia page - I can understand why Isaiah is particularly influential in the Jewish Bible.

>17 AlisonY: Glad this his helpful.

Trying to figure out how to work through this. I think I may start by going chapter by chapter to kind of figure out what works and what doesn't. Then later start to skip around.

Chapter 1

"Zion shall be redeemed by justice"

The problem with discussing any of this in any format is that there is a reading experience here that only exists as you read it. It can't be captured in any kind of notes. But that in itself is noteworthy. There are a few places here and there up to this point that have that kind of existence, that are powerful of themselves only as you read them, and then later we struggle to capture that experience in our memory. Partly because the first thing we remember, and this is a modern issue, is all the conflicts we have with the content. Anyway, this is a reading experience; and it's not just chapter one, it persists through almost the whole of Isaiah.

This is a basically a sermon (well, maybe two sermons. The first is verse 1-20, and the second is v21-31). And what I mean by a reading experience is that while reading this I can picture some variation of Isaiah preaching this stuff and I can see my self watching and even nodding my heading. I don't agree, but there is a rhythm to it, and I'm in the rhythm.

Ok, I'm being silly. We have lots of modern day preachers who do the same thing. The loons on TV, or some others we may or may not like. Even our politicians talk like this (Go look up an LBJ speech video). But, the thing is, we don't have much of that in the OT. This is the first time I have really noticed it. And here we have it over and over again. This observation really affects my view of this whole book. Because of this I see Isaiah as transformative...or, more precisely, as providing the option towards a religious transformation, one that was taken several times along the way. To put it another way, I feel that all modern Christian preachers, and those who imitate them in other ways of life (especially politics) have with them a piece of Isaiah. Because the text here works. There is something fundamentally satisfying about it. (I'm tempted to think Jung must have loved this.)

...

right...

OK, about the content of chapter 1. There is a curious mixture of words here, but the general theme for most of the first half of Isaiah is laid out.

1. Listen up! ("Hear, O heavens, and listen, O earth; for the Lord has spoken")
2. You were bad ("I reared children and brought them up, but they have rebelled against me.")
3. You are still being bad ("Why do you seek further beatings? Why do you continue to rebel?")
4. Look what you have caused
--- I think he's saying the Assyrians are laying waste to Israel, and only Jerusalem stands...even though that is a premature here:

7 Your country lies desolate,
your cities are burned with fire;
in your very presence
aliens devour your land;
it is desolate, as overthrown by foreigners.
8 And daughter Zion is left
like a booth in a vineyard,
like a shelter in a cucumber field,
like a besieged city.
9 If the Lord of hosts
had not left us a few survivors,
we would have been like Sodom,
and become like Gomorrah.

5. You are so bad God as stopped listening to you. (Even your rituals do not satisfy him now. "even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; your hands are full of blood')
6. Now, it's time to shape up and act righteous ("Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your doings from before my eyes; cease to do evil, learn to do good;"
7. If you can do that all will be well (the carrot)
8. Judgment - God will punish all and only the righteous will come out, but they will come out well and inherit the world. You will suffer or are suffering, but get your act together because a reward is coming. This is the main theme of Isaiah.

And now you know why I can't do this whole book chapter by chapter...

Chapter 2

Note the introduction - 2:1

2:2 to 2:4 summarize Isaiah's version of paradise on earth (an earth led by Judeans and Jerusalem.).

It includes the UN's unofficial mission statement:

they shall beat their swords into ploughshares,
and their spears into pruning-hooks;
nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall they learn war any more.

The rest is another sermon pleading that Jews shape up to survive "that day", which is Judgment day. Interesting that he tells them (us?) to hide in caves. That's what the Essenes actually did at Qumran. They hid in desert caves, and left us the Dead Sea scrolls.

Chapter 3

An elaboration of what happens at judgment, when the unqualified are leaders and the bad are punished and humiliated.

There is a long bit here on the humiliation of female vanity and how, for the vain women, "the Lord will lay bare their secret parts". HarperCollins insists this means their foreheads...

Perhaps it's time I skipped around a bit?

Chapter 4 - Seven women to one man because the men will all be killed off. This is part of the purification

... and just maybe a touch of male fantasy, and therefore a carry over from the end of chapter 3

And then there is a little bit more on the glory of Jerusalem after judgment. So, if you're guy this is all good stuff - naked woman, seven to a guy, and for "whoever is left in Zion" paradise. If you're a woman you might want to find a different paradise.

Chapter 5 - I want to skip, but keep getting caught up in interesting stuff...

v1-7 is on God tending a vineyard, and how the vineyard represents the Israelites. In summary, God tends it lovingly (And, according to HarperCollins a vineyard is a standard metaphor for a lover. So, there is extra meaning here), but it only gives back wild grapes. Such an ungrateful vineyard. So God destroys it.

It includes these concluding lines. They apparently work better in Hebrew as four simple words that play off each other's sound. But I like the English too:

he expected justice,
but saw bloodshed;
righteousness,
but heard a cry!

Then there is an interesting ranting mainly against the rich, but also against various sins, including those who put cleverness over faith. I'm pretty sure we saw something this like in Proverbs: "Ah, you who are wise in your own eyes, and shrewd in your own sight!"

v26-30
The chapter ends with an oracle of an invading army. Now, I find this weird. God anoints an army of foreigners, not faithful, to successfully wipe out and punish Israel. They will be successful in every way, until God is done with them and discards them (that last part isn't in this chapter, but comes later). It's such an odd explanation of the Assyrian and Babylonian invasions. I mean who ever believed this or took it seriously? .... oh, right, only half the world for 2000 plus years. Sorry, momentary decoupling with our human reality.

Chapter 6 is one of the coolest and oddest chapters in the bible. I don't even know where to begin. Maybe it would better for you to just go read it again and leave it at that. (You can read it here: http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=296375334 )

This is a Isaiah giving a vision of God. And if you are going to have a vision of God... take notes. This is great stuff.

Then he talks to God: "And I said: ‘Woe is me! I am lost, for I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips; yet my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!’ "

note - HarperCollins says that "I am lost" means I am silenced. Regardless, Isaiah is in deep shit... (can I say that here?)

Then this:

"Then one of the seraphs flew to me, holding a live coal that had been taken from the altar with a pair of tongs. The seraph touched my mouth with it and said: ‘Now that this has touched your lips, your guilt has departed and your sin is blotted out.’ "

Now, take a moment here because...because this is just...I just...I can't say anything appropriate. If you forget everything else in Isaiah, keep this one image. Because it's just awesome.

However, I'm not sure how important this all is. I mean, this isn't the part Christianity picked up on. And while Roman-era Judaism loved Isaiah (and hence, so did the Jewish origins of Christianity), Rabbinical Judaism kind of turned away. At least that is how I understand it.

Side note: I'm listening to Zealot by Reza Aslan on the life and times of Jesus. I'm mixed on the book, but getting stuff out of it. Roman era Judaism was radical and that Judaism was used as the tool through which Israel rebelled against Roman rule. Isaiah is a big deal here with Messiahs and judgment and a road map to reward. The Romans thoroughly wiped it this aspect of Judaism out between the 66 and 134 CE rebellions and response. Rabinical Judaism responded by entirely re-interpreting Judaism as a non-rebellious religion! Modern Judaism is focused on the Torah and David and the history more than Isaiah. Now modern Israel would seem to change that equation a bit.

But anyway, historically, up till, say 1900, Isaiah's most important parts were those that influenced Christianity. And there are other parts that have a huge influence. So, I'm not sure where this live coal fits in, other than fantastically vivid and curious and artistically satisfying. It's just cool.

...

More on Chapter 6

And then there is another turn.

"Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, ‘Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?’ And I said, ‘Here am I; send me!’ 9And he said, ‘Go and say to this people:
“Keep listening, but do not comprehend;
keep looking, but do not understand.”
10 Make the mind of this people dull,
and stop their ears,
and shut their eyes,
so that they may not look with their eyes,
and listen with their ears,
and comprehend with their minds,
and turn and be healed.’

...

Ok. I need to pause for a second.

Yes, God is actually telling Isaiah to help him make the Israelite dumb enough to earn the punishment of judgment.

No, that does not make sense, on many levels.

My rant goes this list: That's interesting but tough for us living in the logic modern life gets. It just doesn't work logically. First, if Isaiah really heard this, wouldn't it better if he kept this bit to himself? Because who is going to listen to the guy who was told to conceal the message? And then my thoughts go down from there.

But...
But, it's different when viewed through the eyes of Biblical Judea. My perspective on this (and I'm sure there are other better ones), is that this book is explaining the painful reality of the life in Judea, that of being thoroughly overpowered by Assyria and Babylon. That of actually suffering the pains of Judgment. Of loss, death, rape, hunger, humiliation, and failure. The hopelessness this leaves on the future. Why? Because God made it that way. Because we must pass through God's judgment. Without this outlook, there is no hope in Israel. Isaiah offers hope.

I'm too wordy and confusing. Maybe better for forget those last two posts (except the part that says re-read Chapter 6)

Certainly NOT too wordy and confusing! I enjoyed your posts. I have a few comments myself, but I need time to write them down. In the meantime I have only barely started reading chapter 1...

Thanks Flo. Wondering about your comments.

Going to try to gather together my comments and see how they match up with the brilliant info. you have given.

It requires some further churning in my brain first...

My musings....

>19 dchaikin: I also came away with the same feeling that Chapter 1 was like listening to a really engaging sermon; I found the writing very accessible and quite beautiful in this Chapter. I think a lot of that is because it's written as if I was there in the crowd of people Isaiah is talking to (in present tense), as opposed to other chapters which feel more like a narration of past events. Actually, I felt like this in general about Chapters 1-5; for some reason I enjoyed the writing in these initial chapters more than the subsequent ones (well, those that I've reached so far).

>23 dchaikin: in the warnings to the women (3:16-25) my translation doesn't have anything about women baring their parts! What verse was that out of? I'm curious to see what my version has instead. I'm sure this was not the intended reaction, but I found this section quite hilarious ("Instead of using perfumes they will stink... instead of having beautiful hair they will be bald...").

>24 dchaikin: Dan, you do make me laugh with your musings. I agree this does not sound like an attractive situation for the ladies.

>27 dchaikin:: Chapter 6 9-13: I agree it doesn't read quite logically for Isaiah to go out and tell people that they're not going to understand they hear or see and they God doesn't want them to hear or see. I felt that the point was for Isaiah to tell the Judeans just enough to get the message across that some serious bad times are coming because of their actions, but for their understanding to be limited to that as he doesn't want them to get the chance to figure it out completely and repent and be healed.

In a lot of these chapters I did struggle with this merciless aspect to God's plan, that he didn't want anyone to have a last minute change of heart, and that even the babies and children would not be spared.

Still stuck around Chapter 21. Hopefully will get a bit further later this week.

>25 dchaikin:

"v26-30
The chapter ends with an oracle of an invading army. Now, I find this weird. God anoints an army of foreigners, not faithful, to successfully wipe out and punish Israel. They will be successful in every way, until God is done with them and discards them (that last part isn't in this chapter, but comes later). It's such an odd explanation of the Assyrian and Babylonian invasions. I mean who ever believed this or took it seriously? .... oh, right, only half the world for 2000 plus years. Sorry, momentary decoupling with our human reality."

There's something that impressed me a lot when we were reading the historical books, especially (if I remember correctly) Kings. The reason that the Bible and the religions it spawned exist and have endured for so long (and done so much damage) is a phenomenon that we can still see at work today. When you believe something very strongly and are shown wrong, you have a choice of renouncing your faith, or on the contrary stick to it against all reason, rewriting history or changing minor (or not) details of the faith to make it seem consistent with the history. This is the beginning of fanaticism. And fanatics wrote big chunks of the Bible.

When Assyrians first, and later Babylonians, overthrew the Hebrew kingdoms and sent their elites to exile, the reasonable reaction would have been to say something like, well this Yahweh hasn't been very helpful so far, why not try the gods of our victors, they might be more useful and at least they (the victors) might leave me in peace if I merge into their culture. Which is probably what many people thought or at least did (hence the prophets' railings). However, others decided that far from showing the uselessness of being faithful to Yahweh, these disasters were the punishment meted out on Hebrews for not being faithful enough, and so the correct answer was to set themselves even further apart from the culture they were forced to live in, and or win back Yahweh by their pureness and faithfulness. This is a fantastic stance, because it cannot be invalidated and any event can be interpreted in a way that strengthens it. Everything bad that happens is just proof that the people are not pure and faithful enough and that they must make more efforts.

You see something similar in, for instance, the anti vaccine movement nowadays. They started with a conviction that vaccines ar the cause of autism, because the first obvious symptoms of autism appear roughly around the time that children are vaccinated. Then they tried out theory after theory of the reason why this might be, and every time one on these theories is debunked, they turn to another one. Every time a study shows that there is no link between vaccines and autism, they claim that this study is flawed and we need yet another one, and this despite the fact that by now the evidence has been piling up that autism is primarily due to genetic factors, and if there are additional environmental factors they are certainly not connected to vaccines.

This kind of behavior may be understandable. After all, nobody likes to be shown wrong, and it can even be unbearably painful if you have a heavy emotional investment in your faith. But it's also very destructive.

Of course these two stories (the radicalization of the Hebrew faith and the anti vaccine movement) are very different, and the comparison cannot be taken very far, but my feeling is that the common element between the two is this tendency of faith, when confronted with contradiction, to go toward radicalization. And that's scary. Which is why I find it difficult to sympathize with raving mad prophets, no matter how harmless they may seem after all this time. But remember that there are several episodes of mass murder in the Bible. And it was only the beginning. Just this morning I read the story of an Afghan woman who was stoned to death after being wrongly accused of burning a Quran.

Sorry for being so negative. I have been more than usually curmudgeonly lately. Obviously this is only one of many ways to see the Bible, and it's not even the only way I see it, but well, it's something that has been on the back of my mind for some time. Now that I have laid it out it seems really ugly, and probably not the best way to read the Bible...

Lots to think about. I haven't had time to post lately, but wanted you both know I'm reading and thinking about your posts and the specifics of the book and now about faith and religion in general.

>32 AlisonY:

I think the Nations part is the least enjoyable part of this book. Once you get past that, I think it reverts to better stuff.

---

"about women baring their parts" - It's from the NRSV, 3:17. Link here: http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=296986834

---

re: 6:9-13 - My edition says, "The message God gives Isaiah will not lead to repentance, but to the hardening of the people's heart, thus making them ripe for God's judgment."

Then it lists several NT citations of this, which I haven't looked up: MT 13:10-17, MK 4:10-12, LK 8:9-10, JN 12:40, Acts 28:25-29.

I just looked these up and they are all an interpretation of this text. Acts specifically cites Isaiah. They all say God spoke such that the bad people could not understand. Most say God spoke in parables so that only the righteous (or, possibly, only Isaiah) could understand.

These are five different more or less consistent NT interpretations. Seems like they might very much be in tune with the intended meaning.

I think part of this is God keeping people from stepping up and putting on a good face for judgment day. He doesn't want anyone to prepare, he wants them exposed as they are. Maybe further is the idea is that if you can read the text and grasp the meaning then, wink wink, you have an inside scoop. So you can quietly act righteous while everyone else will get screwed.

---

"merciless aspect to God's plan" - That merciless aspect seems to characterize the entire OT.

>33 FlorenceArt:

This is a great post.

"When you believe something very strongly and are shown wrong, you have a choice of renouncing your faith, or on the contrary stick to it against all reason"

When I see it laid out like this, my first thought is about the complicated interweaving of culture and religion. I try to imaging the cultural atmosphere. There was a community that was exiled (and probably a much larger community who stayed but lost their leaders and religious guidance...but, for simplicity, I'll ignore these for now). Having these people think, "I was wrong to believe that" would not have helped them in anyway. Nor, possibly, would have converting to Babylons gods. They were not evicted because their religion was wrong, they were evicted because their community was small and overwhelmed by a more powerful army.

Their survival still depended on their bonds within their now exiled community. And what would have been important to individuals would have been the community itself. Faith was part of what made that community strong enough to continue to exist.

The book came out of that community and was written by the religious scholars and leaders, most of whom were either fanatical, or pretended to be. But the faith was part of the community bond. It had really only to work well enough and be just right enough for the community to value it over whatever the alternatives were. In that perspective, ridiculous little creations like this are sort of the duct-tape placed over the leaks in logic of the faith.

That's not to say I disagree with anything you say. And I like the vaccine comparison.

>35 dchaikin: thanks for your additional comments, Dan. I'm somewhere around Chapter 28 or so now.

I must admit it's not putting me into a faith happy place so far; it's raising quite a few thoughts in my head that I'd rather I wasn't thinking. Reading about all the different kinds of sinners who are warned in these chapters, it feels like there aren't going to be many people on this earth heading through those pearly gates, and I'm struggling with how to reconcile this continual anger of God's with the Christian faith.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting it, especially as I've not read all the previous books, but it concerns me. I think I need to reeducate myself on the Christian view on the OT versus the NT.

Florence - I totally get where you are coming from in your post.

I am off to read some more over this next week, and hope that by the end of the book I'll feel differently.

Chapter 7

I guess we were warned in the previous chapter that we would comprehend everything Isaiah was going to say. In any case this chapter is kind of confusing and kind of makes sense - a prophecy for the destruction of both Aram and the Northern Kingdom of Israel (here Ephraim).

notes:
Shear-jashub - a son of Isaiah, his name means A remnant shall return, referencing Assyria's wiping out of the northern kingdom

Immanuel - such an important and influential messiah prophecy, yet he only gets a few lines. His names means God is with us.

memorable line:
7:13 Then Isaiah said: ‘Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary mortals, that you weary my God also?..."

He says this to Judah King Ahaz when Ahaz refused to ask God for a sign. This is the prelude to the Immanuel prophecy.

Ok, skipping to the stars in my notes:

10:27-32
Not sure why I starred this. It's an oracle describing the route of military march along with lots of obscure names. I guess I just liked the odd, collection of places and obscure bits of commentary about them.

11:1-9h
Here is "A shoot shall come out from the stock of Jesse", which is considered a reference to the messiah in David's lineage. Jesus, despite being of Nazareth, is also of Bethlehem and in the Davidic line.

In full

11 A shoot shall come out from the stock of Jesse,
   and a branch shall grow out of his roots.
2 The spirit of the Lord shall rest on him,
   the spirit of wisdom and understanding,
   the spirit of counsel and might,
   the spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.
3 His delight shall be in the fear of the Lord.

   He shall not judge by what his eyes see,
   or decide by what his ears hear;
4 but with righteousness he shall judge the poor,
   and decide with equity for the meek of the earth;
   he shall strike the earth with the rod of his mouth,
   and with the breath of his lips he shall kill the wicked.
5 Righteousness shall be the belt around his waist,
   and faithfulness the belt around his loins.

6 The wolf shall live with the lamb,
   the leopard shall lie down with the kid,
   the calf and the lion and the fatling together,
   and a little child shall lead them.
7 The cow and the bear shall graze,
   their young shall lie down together;
   and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child shall play over the hole of the asp,
   and the weaned child shall put its hand on the adder’s den.
9 They will not hurt or destroy
   on all my holy mountain;
   for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord
   as the waters cover the sea.

Chapters 13-23:18 are "Against Foreign Nations"

copied from #11 above, my own notes on the nations:
Babylon - 13, 14:1-23, 21:1-10, 22:1-8
Assyria - 14:24-27
Philistia - 14:28-31, 20
Moab - 15 & 16
Damascus (Aram) - 17
Ephraim - 17
Ethiopia - 18 & 20
Egypt - 19 & 20
Edom - 34:5-7 (& 8-14)
Arabia - 21:11-17
Jerusalem - 22 (against ??, I don't recall)
Tyre - 23
Moab - 25:10-12

Starred parts:

14:24-27
That this is God's plan to destroy Assyria is not so interesting to me. But I liked the feel of the language:

This is the plan that is planned
concerning the whole earth;
and this is the hand that is stretched out
over all the nations.

17:12-14

Ah, the thunder of many peoples,
they thunder like the thundering of the sea!
Ah, the roar of nations,
they roar like the roaring of mighty waters!

Anything with thunder recalls Baal and anything with water recalls the Baal mythology of order conquering over the chaos of the sea, which the Bible has gladly incorporated. Here, the threatening nations are the chaos.

21:1-10
This is just an awesome prophecy of the fall of Babylon. It reminds me of the Song of Deborah with its obscured, oddball, vivid touches. I won't re-post the whole thing, but it's worth revisiting. I'll just post the beginning where the narrator describes the incarnation of the oracle vision itself:

As whirlwinds in the Negeb sweep on,
it comes from the desert,
from a terrible land.
A stern vision is told to me;
the betrayer betrays,
and the destroyer destroys.

Chapters 24-27:13 are described as Isaiah Apocalypse. I don't have any starred notes, but I'll make a few comments.

Chapter 24 -

For the windows of heaven are opened,
and the foundations of the earth tremble.
The earth is utterly broken,
the earth is torn asunder,
the earth is violently shaken.

v21 opens "On that day..." That's judgement day.

Chapter 25 is like a psalm of judgement.

Chapter 26 "O Just One, you make smooth the path of the righteous."
This line should scare you. Because we were just told how God with level everyone. He will tear down the rich and bring them level with the poor. So, I guess you should only be scared if you are not currently down and out. Anyway, the prayer is asking for that leveling. Reading it, it's as if you are surrounded by people asking for harsh judgement. Eerie...

Chapter 27 brings up leviathan, who we met in Job. The v12 opens, "On that day the Lord will..." That's Judgement day again.

Chapters 28-33 - Oracles concerning Ephraim and Judah

skipping to starred notes again.

Chapter 28
My notes summarize this chapter as a "long winded curse on those who don't trust; and other vagaries of faith." It's an odd chapter in verse. Note v2 to me sounds like it's talking about the Messiah. But HarperCollins says it's actually talking about Assyria coming to wipe our Ephraim (N. Israel). Tough messiah...or non-messiah...

Chapter 29
Curses on Jerusalem. HarperCollins says v17-24 reverse earlier judgments. But, I love the oddball curse on prophets:

Stupefy yourselves and be in a stupor,
blind yourselves and be blind!
Be drunk, but not from wine;
stagger, but not from strong drink!
For the Lord has poured out upon you
a spirit of deep sleep;
he has closed your eyes, you prophets,
and covered your heads, you seers.

Chapter 30 - I have three stars - v8, v27-28 & v33.
v8:

Go now, write it before them on a tablet,
and inscribe it in a book,
so that it may be for the time to come
as a witness for ever.

Now, I just find this kind of instruction curious and interesting. But HarperCollins adds a bit. "Isaiah is told to record his message as a future witness against Judah, because at the present time the people are unwilling to listen." That's one reason to write a book...

v27-28 is just an impressive curse

See, the name of the Lord comes from far away,
burning with his anger, and in thick rising smoke;
his lips are full of indignation,
and his tongue is like a devouring fire;
his breath is like an overflowing stream
that reaches up to the neck—
to sift the nations with the sieve of destruction,
and to place on the jaws of the peoples a bridle that leads them astray.

I think it's worthwhile to note this stuff. Everyone takes the Bible so seriously, whether in positive or negative lights. They forget to enjoy these little entertaining quirky bits. I mean what a great curse.

And the curse continues through v33

For his burning-place has long been prepared; truly it is made ready for the king, its pyre made deep and wide, with fire and wood in abundance; the breath of the Lord, like a stream of sulphur, kindles it.

This might see rather mundane, but HarperCollins tells "burning place" is a translation of "Topheth" which is a place where children were sacrificed. So Isaiah is taking Israel's dark history of child sacrifice and turning it into a weapon of judgement on kings. The Lord will burn the kings like a child sacrifice to false god.

Great notes as always Dan. Now I'm really seeing a huge difference between your translation version and mine. Yours is much more poetic and literary compared to my Good News version.

See below from Chapter 11. Your version:

11 A shoot shall come out from the stock of Jesse,
and a branch shall grow out of his roots.
2 The spirit of the Lord shall rest on him,
the spirit of wisdom and understanding,
the spirit of counsel and might,
the spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.
3 His delight shall be in the fear of the Lord.

He shall not judge by what his eyes see,
or decide by what his ears hear;
4 but with righteousness he shall judge the poor,
and decide with equity for the meek of the earth;
he shall strike the earth with the rod of his mouth,
and with the breath of his lips he shall kill the wicked.
5 Righteousness shall be the belt around his waist,
and faithfulness the belt around his loins.

6 The wolf shall live with the lamb,
the leopard shall lie down with the kid,
the calf and the lion and the fatling together,
and a little child shall lead them.
7 The cow and the bear shall graze,
their young shall lie down together;
and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child shall play over the hole of the asp,
and the weaned child shall put its hand on the adder’s den.
9 They will not hurt or destroy
on all my holy mountain;
for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord
as the waters cover the sea.

My version:

11 The royal line of David is like a tree that has been cut down;
but just as new branches sprout from a stump,
so a new king will arise from among David's descendants.
2 The spirit of the Lord will give him wisdom,
and the knowledge and skill to rule his people.
He will know the Lord's will and have reverence for him,
3 and find pleasure in obeying him.
He will not judge by appearance or hearsay;
4 he will judge the poor fairly
and defend the rights of the helpless.
At his command the people will be punished,
and evils persons will die.
5 He will rule his people with justice and integrity.

6 Wolves and sheep will live together in peace,
and leopards will lie down with young goats.
Calves and lion cubs will feed together,
and little children will take care of them.
7. Cows and bears will eat together,
and their calves and cubs will lie down in peace.
Lions will eat straw as cattle do.
8. Even a baby will not be harmed
if it plays near a poisonous snake.
9 On Zion, God's sacred hill,
there will be nothing harmful or evil.
The land will be as full of knowledge
of the Lord
as the seas are full of water.

You have the Shakespeare version - I have the local news report version. Hey - maybe that's why it's called Good News. They've stripped out all the literary enjoyment and changed it into straight journalistic prose.

In Chapter 3, verse 17 where the ladies were warned with baring their parts, mine was:

'But I will punish them - I will shave their heads and leave them bald'.

So I can't follow this thread on a literary like-for-like basis, but still enjoying reading along and following your notes all the same.

Keep 'em coming!

Alison, I think you can easily find the NRSV translation online for free. And olivetree.com have apps for most PC and mobile OSes that you can use to read the Bible. I use the iPad app and am very happy with it because I can display the original text and the notes side by side. I paid for the HarperCollins notes, but as far as I remember the NRSV is available for free. So is the King James Bible, which is probably still the best as far as style goes, although of course some of the translations are outdated. You can also display two different translations side by side on the OliveTree app. I love that app.

Thanks Florence. Sounds like a better option.

Oh, Alyson, that translation is entertaining but...I think you need a different version.

The Shakespearing version is the King James Version (NOT any new or revised King James Version). Also likely the Geneva (?) bible that the translation is based on, although i have never looked at the version or properly learned it's name. KJV is from 1611 and has magnificent aesthetics - better then the original Hewbrew, likely. But it has too many translation errors for me for this particular read. Still, it's always worth looking.

You can find the KJV here, with scanned pages. I've linked to Isaiah 11: http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611_Isaiah-Chapter-11/

ETA - click on the picture in the upper left to see a (low quality) enlarged scan.

wikipedia bits:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Bible - from 1560

Its main translator was William Tyndale, although he wasn't around to know that since he was executed in 1536 for heresy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale

more
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyndale_Bible

Chapters 34-35
old scholarship - style of 2nd Isaiah.
new scholarship - Yahweh's return

34:1-5 (NRSV)

Draw near, O nations, to hear;
O peoples, give heed!
Let the earth hear, and all that fills it;
the world, and all that comes from it.
For the Lord is enraged against all the nations,
and furious against all their hordes;
he has doomed them, has given them over for slaughter.
Their slain shall be cast out,
and the stench of their corpses shall rise;
the mountains shall flow with their blood.
All the host of heaven shall rot away,
and the skies roll up like a scroll.
All their host shall wither
like a leaf withering on a vine,
or fruit withering on a fig tree.

When my sword has drunk its fill in the heavens,
lo, it will descend upon Edom,
upon the people I have doomed to judgement.

Chapter 35 in the post-Judgement blessings.

Chapters 36-38:8 & 38:21-39 are copied from 2 Kings 18:13-20:19

This is the story of Hezekiah and Jerusalem surviving the siege. There are oddball parts to the Biblical Hezekiah.

As for 38:9-20...a psalm.

that finished the first Isaiah.

Oh no, I'm running late again. I feel like the rabbit in Alice in Wonderland.

Me too - I'm still stuck in the 20s somewhere chapter-wise.

: ) I'm hapy to be ahead.

I had hoped to join you in reading Isaiah; I have put it off too long. One of my New Jerusalem Bibles should be by my pillow, but it has migrated without leaving a trail.

Last night a chapter on Spinoza in a book led me to post here. Spinoza believed God to be immutable, and, so, that God might love or hate is meaningless. Spinoza thought that the understanding of God's love and hate was properly explained in Isaiah. Have you run across traces of that?

Robert

I think i'd need Spinoza's guidance, and then a lot of help, to see it that way. If we disregard all the other books, then I think there is a permanence in Isaiah in a predestination kind of sense. There is a feeling in the book that the remnant righteous survivors of judgment have already been selected. (Which may be because the Babylonian exiles saw themselves as the remnant) But I don't believe that is explicitly stated anywhere.

Is God's love and hate explained here? This book is about judgment and the coming reward afterward. Judgment is, i guess, a form of love and hate. I don't know how the nature of that love and hate is properly shown. It was not done in such a way that I could properly grasp it.

I just picked up an NIV Bible for a dollar while out running errands. I've probably bitten off more than I can chew, but I'll see what I can read in the book myself.

Robert

Chapters 40 to 55 cover the second Isaiah, or, if you prefer, the return to Judah. I plan to spend a lot more time on them, then the previous 15 chapters. The highlights here, highlights of a sort, are the four servants songs. The suffering servant is picked out as Christ-like by Christianity.

chapter 40 is a interesting change. The words just come pouring out. HarperCollins tells me that verses 1 & 2 are God speaking to angels (or, HC speak, "the angelic members of God's royal council") and telling them what to say. Then a voice cries out, and that is apparently the angels talking to man. But when do the Angels stop, and Isaiah 2 or some other prophet start? Not sure.

Still, it's an interesting expression of a god we cannot fathom, one is the foundation of everything.

Chapter 41 is maybe God presenting his case of his power vs. powerless idols...at least that's what my notes say.

Chapter 42:1-9 is the first servants song. In 1-4 he is introduced and in5-9 he praises God a light to the nations.

42Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
   my chosen, in whom my soul delights;
   I have put my spirit upon him;
   he will bring forth justice to the nations.
2 He will not cry or lift up his voice,
   or make it heard in the street;
3 a bruised reed he will not break,
   and a dimly burning wick he will not quench;
   he will faithfully bring forth justice.
4 He will not grow faint or be crushed
   until he has established justice in the earth;
   and the coastlands wait for his teaching.

Sounds like a Messiah...

Matthew agrees. He cites this as a messianic prophecy in MT 12:18-20.

Note, it's a peaceful messiah, which, dare I say, is not very biblical, at least per the OT.

The HC editor, I think, over complicates this. He says the servant is Israel as a whole. Surely you can read it that way, and it changes everything. I think it also ruins it. The text loses its power, and these four verses are quite memorable if we try to picture them as a person. That doesn't mean he's wrong...

The rest of Chapter 42 seems to be a list of all the bad things Israel has done and its punishment.

Chapter 43 then might be a continuation. It's starts "But now..." and then covers how much better things we be. In other words, the punishment has ended and now it's time to return. Verses 14-21 create a new Exodus, but it's different then the terrible wandering out of Egypt, this will be a better Exodus.

Chapter 44 opens with "But now hear, O Jacob my servant, Israel whom I have chosen." So, is the servant Jacob (aka Israel)? Then he's a stand in for the nation of Israel and that's where JMMR get's his conclusion from about who the servant is.

at then end are various lines of "who says..." which are followed by various good things God will do. Verse 27 has "who says to the deep, ‘Be dry—I will dry up your rivers’". The reference is to Babylon and it's rivers, since Babylon the bad exiler and must suffer. But it's also another reference to the primordial deep, that chaos that Baal, and now the Lord conquers.

Chapter 45
Note the Cyrus is a Messiah here. The OT has lots of Messiahs, but this it he only non-Israelite one.

I kind of like the convoluted introduction in v18:

For thus says the Lord,
who created the heavens
(he is God!),
who formed the earth and made it
(he established it;
he did not create it a chaos,
he formed it to be inhabited!):

That's all before he is actually quoted. So, he formed what to be inhabited by chaos? And did he mean for it to be inhabited by chaos?

Chapter 46
My summary: God is better than idols. Stop doubting, I'll redeem you
HC summary: Unlike Babylonian idols, which must be carried, God will carry his people.

Chapter 47
The punishment of Babylon. It's a pretty mean chapter is you are Babylonian, which you probably aren't. This is on the vanity of Babylon's sorcery:

12 Stand fast in your enchantments
   and your many sorceries,
   with which you have laboured from your youth;
   perhaps you may be able to succeed,
   perhaps you may inspire terror.
13 You are wearied with your many consultations;
   let those who study the heavens
   stand up and save you,
   those who gaze at the stars
   and at each new moon predict
   what shall befall you.
14 See, they are like stubble,
   the fire consumes them;
   they cannot deliver themselves
   from the power of the flame.
   No coal for warming oneself is this,
   no fire to sit before!

If you are like me, you might need to read that a few times before you realize how mean it is. The implications and sarcasm take a little reconstructing. Those silly useless sorcerers.

Chapter 48
My summary: A sermon to stubborn Israel
HC summary: God warns his obstinate people to pay attention this time, for God the creator is about to redeem them from Babylonian bondage.

12 Listen to me, O Jacob,
   and Israel, whom I called:
   I am He; I am the first,
   and I am the last.
13 My hand laid the foundation of the earth,
   and my right hand spread out the heavens;
   when I summon them,
   they stand at attention.

Chapter 49
An interesting sequence. v1-7 is the second servants song that ends in feeling of vanity. Then there are sections that each seem to conclude in some strong phrase about future redemption. So, there is a thread through here - all this lost, no, just wait.

From the second servants song

   The Lord called me before I was born,
   while I was in my mother’s womb he named me.
2 He made my mouth like a sharp sword,
   in the shadow of his hand he hid me;
   he made me a polished arrow,
   in his quiver he hid me away.
3 And he said to me, ‘You are my servant,
   Israel, in whom I will be glorified.’
4 But I said, ‘I have laboured in vain,
   I have spent my strength for nothing and vanity;
   yet surely my cause is with the Lord,
   and my reward with my God.’

Then this

v14-18 say I the Lord have not forgotten you: "See, I have inscribed you on the palms of my hands"

v19-23 tells of a Israel the nations look up to, concludes: "Then you will know that I am the Lord"

v24-26 concludes: "Then all flesh shall know that I am the Lord your Saviour"

Chapter 50
The third servants song brings up a suffering servant. He follows God and nothing else phases him. That includes harm done to him and humiliation. And, yet, still there are all those who don't follow his lead (and who he curses to "walk in the flame of your fire" - as in the fire you created yourself.) His faith and perseverance actually serve to counter and more than compensate for any humiliation. Here also seems a basis to the Jesus who turns the other cheek.

4 The Lord God has given me
   the tongue of a teacher,
   that I may know how to sustain
   the weary with a word.
   Morning by morning he wakens—
   wakens my ear
   to listen as those who are taught.
5 The Lord God has opened my ear,
   and I was not rebellious,
   I did not turn backwards.
6 I gave my back to those who struck me,
   and my cheeks to those who pulled out the beard;
   I did not hide my face
   from insult and spitting.

7 The Lord God helps me;
   therefore I have not been disgraced;
   therefore I have set my face like flint,
   and I know that I shall not be put to shame;

...

then the curse.

...

10 Who among you fears the Lord
   and obeys the voice of his servant,
   who walks in darkness
   and has no light,
   yet trusts in the name of the Lord
   and relies upon his God?
11 But all of you are kindlers of fire,
   lighters of firebrands.
   Walk in the flame of your fire,
   and among the brands that you have kindled!
   This is what you shall have from my hand:
   you shall lie down in torment.

Since no one is listening, we're all doomed to torment.

Chapter 51
My notes say "various short bits." But there is a strong sense of God saying something like, "listen because redemption is coming".

I think v17-23, with the cup of wrath, is quite interesting. I mean to some extent it's quite simple. The Cup of Wrath is a metaphor for judgment, a disorienting judgment somewhat parallel to drunkenness. So, giving and taking away the cup is just another way of saying judgment is past and redemption is coming. But, I don't know, there's more than that here, I think.

17 Rouse yourself, rouse yourself!
   Stand up, O Jerusalem,
   you who have drunk at the hand of the Lord
   the cup of his wrath,
   who have drunk to the dregs
   the bowl of staggering.
18 There is no one to guide her
   among all the children she has borne;
   there is no one to take her by the hand
   among all the children she has brought up.
19 These two things have befallen you
   —who will grieve with you?—
   devastation and destruction, famine and sword—
   who will comfort you?
20 Your children have fainted,
   they lie at the head of every street
   like an antelope in a net;
   they are full of the wrath of the Lord,
   the rebuke of your God.

21 Therefore hear this, you who are wounded,
   who are drunk, but not with wine:
22 Thus says your Sovereign, the Lord,
   your God who pleads the cause of his people:
   See, I have taken from your hand the cup of staggering;
   you shall drink no more
   from the bowl of my wrath.
23 And I will put it into the hand of your tormentors,
   who have said to you,
   ‘Bow down, that we may walk on you’;
   and you have made your back like the ground
   and like the street for them to walk on.

Chapter 52/53

52:13-15 and 53:1-12 make up the fourth and final suffering servant. This one is the most evocative of Christ...ok, at least as I know him, which is barely at all. Nonetheless he is an interesting servant and one who you just have to feel bad for, one who maybe inspired a bit of awe for his devotion to his belief. Here he is really suffering, and I was struck my the lamb imagery. And, like Toni Morrison's Beloved, he serves as the sacrifice for his people.

2 For he grew up before him like a young plant,
   and like a root out of dry ground;
   he had no form or majesty that we should look at him,
   nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by others;
   a man of suffering and acquainted with infirmity;
   and as one from whom others hide their faces
   he was despised, and we held him of no account.

...

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions,
   crushed for our iniquities;
   upon him was the punishment that made us whole,
   and by his bruises we are healed.

...

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
   yet he did not open his mouth;
   like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent,
   so he did not open his mouth.

...

10 Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him with pain.
   When you make his life an offering for sin,
   he shall see his offspring, and shall prolong his days;
   through him the will of the Lord shall prosper.

I'll skip chapter 54. The only thing I'll mention about chapter 55 is that it used to be seen as Isaiah 2 and is now seen, by some, as part of the final section. There is a clear change in tone from the the rest of the second Isaiah.

Chapter 56-66 is the third Isaiah, or chapter 55-66 is saying "keep the covenant and look forward to God's plan". Either way, it's kind of an awkward section. The last ten or so chapters said redemption is almost here, just around the corner. Now time has moved ahead and redemption has not come. Life in Israel after the exiles return, which is more-or-less what this covers, was not the hoped for paradise. The book responds by demanding we stay the course and keep looking forward.

Chapters 56, 57 & 58.
In an effort the finish this up, I'm going to skip a bit. My notes call chapters 57 & 58 rants. Chapter 57 condemns paganism and condemns the wicked ("the wicked are like the tossing sea that cannot keep still" - which both touches on pre-Baal chaos of waters and on psychological discomfort) Chapter 58 rants against insincere worship (and then encourages sincere worship).

Chapter 59
My notes say "poetics on failure & vain search of justice. I kind of like it in sum -- not specifics." Now I need to go re-read it to see why I felt that way.

...

yeah, that about sums up v1-15a.
- "we wait for light, and lo! there is darkness;" (see also Job 30:26)
- "We grope like the blind along a wall"

v15b - 19 are God's angry response to this.
- "he put on garments of vengeance for clothing,
   and wrapped himself in fury as in a mantle."

v20 is a new covenant. Jeremiah and Ezekiel will have one of these too (Jer 31:31 & Ez 36:26-27)

Chapter 60
My notes say this is a call to the rewards of redemption (or salvation)

v1 is, I think, well known:
KJV: "Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee."

If v6 confuses you ("A multitude of camels shall cover you"), don't worry, it's not about being trampled. Camels bring trading goods. You want to have the wealth to draw in lots of them.

Chapter 61 opens:

The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; (KJV translation)

My HarperCollins notes relate this to the second servant. Luke 4:16-21 says this passage is a prophecy fulfilled by Jesus.

Chapter 62 is on the salvation of Zion or Jerusalem. It opens "For Zion’s sake I will not keep silent". HarperCollins claims this is prophet saying he will not cease reminding God of his promise to redeem. That is a bit odd to me, but then I think there other ways to interpret this too.

Chapter 63 has three sections that don't have any clear relationship to me. verses 15-19 seem to be a psalm.

Chapters 64 & 65 and an interesting give and take between the prophet and god.

Chapter 64 is a lament and there is a palpable sense of a rebuke against God for his silence. ("because you hid yourself we transgressed")

8 Yet, O Lord, you are our Father;
   we are the clay, and you are our potter;
   we are all the work of your hand.

Then Chapter 65 has the Lord's response.

1 I was ready to be sought out by those who did not ask,
   to be found by those who did not seek me.
   I said, ‘Here I am, here I am’,
   to a nation that did not call on my name.
2 I held out my hands all day long
   to a rebellious people,
   who walk in a way that is not good,
   following their own devices;
3 a people who provoke me
   to my face continually,

Chapter 66 concludes that contrary to the skeptics, God's redemption of Jerusalem is about to come. It ends with an emphasis on Judgment and later glory.

Great commentary as always Dan! That almost makes me feel that I don't need to read it myself.

I'm way behind on my reading in general. Work / kids off / sickness.... will try to catch up!!

Thanks Dan for these brilliant notes.

More coming. : )

>74 FlorenceArt: ha! I wanted the highlights here for my own reference.

>75 AlisonY: wait, you're sick, the kids, or both? Regardless hope everyone gets healthy. No worries about keeping up. We never do. And the posts will wait patiently.

Thanks Dan. Kids were off school on holiday, I was sick. How's that for planning!

Shame there's no time for sickness when you're a grown up - I'd have wallowed in it much more as a child if I'd known...

Alison - Hope you are feeling better.

In the hits and misses within James Kugel's How to Read the Bible, Isaiah was something of a hit. Some notes from him:

- No surprise, but he emphasizes that the Isaiah is particularly important for Christians and Jews. Christians because of how it can be read to foretell Christ and Jews because it talks about a return to Jerusalem.

- Prophets and timing.

Elijah and his successor Elisha, don't have book or any writings. Apparently they just were around too early. There are no writings from 9th century prophets. Isaiah, along with Hosea, Amos and Micah, were 8th century BCE prophets who all have writings. But only Isaiah gets a book. So, that makes his book the oldest by the prophets. Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Daniel all have books, but they came later.

Kugel spends a lot of time on that burning coal, although he is mainly interested in the window into God's thrown with the Seraphim chanting "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory" (Isaiah 6.3). This little piece is quite interesting and gets noted down through the various commentaries. Notably in the Roman Catholic preface to the Eucharistic prayer: "Sanctus, Sanctus, Sanctus, Dominus Deus Sabaoth" (In wikipedia's translation from the Latin: Holy, holy, holy, Lorde God of Hostes: heaven (& earth) are full of thy glory)

Also interesting is the choice of the word Seraphim for these angels. The Hebrew words means burners or burning ones. Kugel says this is because they are associated with the stars.

As for the burning coal, there is a precedent, the Mîs-pî of the Mesopotamian priests. Mîs-pî means “washing of the mouth”. It has some variations. One was a ritual where kalû-priests cleansed their mouths before giving oracles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%AEs-p%C3%AE

Kugel really down plays Immanuel. (Isaiah 7:14)

He translates it this way:

Suppose a certain young woman gets pregnant and gives birth to a son; she should give him the name Immanuel.

This is the NRSV for comparison:

Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.

Now, really, "Suppose"? He later basically says you can translate it that way, but that you could also translate it as "look" or "behold". Anyway...

You might remember the "from the trunk of Jesse" bit (Chapter 11) has all those animals:

6 The wolf shall live with the lamb,
   the leopard shall lie down with the kid,
   the calf and the lion and the fatling together,
   and a little child shall lead them.
7 The cow and the bear shall graze,
   their young shall lie down together;
   and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child shall play over the hole of the asp,
   and the weaned child shall put its hand on the adder’s den.
9 They will not hurt or destroy
   on all my holy mountain;
   for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord
   as the waters cover the sea.

This was weird to me. But, actually, if you think about the times and think about Jerusalem as surrounded by enemies...who just might be characterized as dangerous animals like wolves, leopards, lions, bears or asps, then there is a new sense to this. It becomes a description of finding safety amongst one's enemies.

And a few other random bits:

As for Hezekiah the Judahite, who did not submit to my yoke: forty-six of his strong, walled cities, as well as the small towns in their area, which were without number, by levelling with battering-rams and by bringing up seige-engines, and by attacking and storming on foot, by mines, tunnels, and breeches, I besieged and took them. 200,150 people, great and small, male and female, horses, mules, asses, camels, cattle and sheep without number, I brought away from them and counted as spoil. (Hezekiah) himself, like a caged bird I shut up in Jerusalem, his royal city. I threw up earthworks against him; the one coming out of the city-gate, I turned back to his misery. His cities, which I had despoiled, I cut off from his land...

That's from Senncherib's prism, circa 689 BCE, pictured below:



Kugel points out that the problem with the second and third Isaiah is that religiously it completely undermines all the value parts of the second Isaiah. If this text didn't come from the actual real Isaiah, then does it still have value? If so, a lot gets lost. But, really, how hard is it to see the name Cyrus and then date the text to after he existed (instead of 8th century BCE)? Seems like a lot denial before one gets to that question.

Finally, Kugel points to Brevard Child's a initiating the new scholarship on Isaiah. Child's pushed to see the big picture and see Isaiah as one whole unit put together by editors for a purpose and he was looking for what those editors were doing. But, as Kugel says, that's only part of the picture.

I also read the chapter in The Literary Guide to the Bible by Luis Alonso Schökel, but it was terribly dull. He discussed the poetic aspects in painful detail, with many confusing terms and points that would require reading the part of the text and his explanation at the same time to make sense of it. Plus, he wrote in Spanish, and the Literary Guide that had to translated all his comments on sound play into English, which can't have gone that well. Anyway, the short version is the the Second Isaiah is a heck of a lot more poetic than the first Isaiah. And, while the first Isaiah is angry, the second one is a poetry of hope.

I have kicked the Jeremiah thread off here: https://www.librarything.com/topic/191443

I haven't started reading yet, but plan to start this week.