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1fyrefly98
I've been on a bit of a kick recently to read books that I should have read in high school but didn't... or at least I've been trying to read them interspersed with more "fun" books to keep me going.
I always seemed to get the one English teacher who picked a different curriculum than everyone else... while everyone else in my year was reading Hamlet, we were reading MacBeth. While everyone else was reading Crime and Punishment, we were reading The Invisible Man. So, not bad books at all, but not always what seems to be "standard" high school fare.
So... help me! What books do you think I should have been forced to read by now? What should I be thankful I missed? :)
I always seemed to get the one English teacher who picked a different curriculum than everyone else... while everyone else in my year was reading Hamlet, we were reading MacBeth. While everyone else was reading Crime and Punishment, we were reading The Invisible Man. So, not bad books at all, but not always what seems to be "standard" high school fare.
So... help me! What books do you think I should have been forced to read by now? What should I be thankful I missed? :)
2clamairy
For starters I'd have to say both Tess of the D'Urbervilles and To Kill a Mockingbird were wonderful.
I'll have to think some more, though. It's been a LOOOOONG time since HS for me.
I'll have to think some more, though. It's been a LOOOOONG time since HS for me.
3xicanti
I also missed out on a lot of the more famous high school curriculum books. Some of the ones that I remember all my friends reading include To Kill a Mockingbird and Twelfth Night.
4guernicus
I had to read Great Expectations in HS but it was so dreary it put me off Dickens forever. The other class read Jane Eyre instead, which I would have preferred. Certainly, I've read it since (along with other Bronte sisters' novels such as Wuthering Heights) without the urge to throw it at the wall. We also had to read Julius Caesar (one of the more straightforward of Shakespeare's plays and (shudder) a modern poetry collection including the likes of Louis MacNeice, Cecil Day Lewis and Philip Larkin. Horrible. Just horrible.
5Tane
The History of the World in 10 1/2 Chapters by Julian Barnes - I remember reading and studying this book, and enjoying it too...
6KromesTomes
Tane: That Barnes book was part of your high school curriculum? You must have went to a pretty interesting school ...
On topic, I highly recommend the new translation of Crime and Punishment by Pevear/Volokhonsky (sp.?).
On topic, I highly recommend the new translation of Crime and Punishment by Pevear/Volokhonsky (sp.?).
7RuneFirestar
When I was in high school we had to read the following:
Bewoulf
Julius Ceaser
Romeo and Juliet
Midsummers Nights Dream
Great Expectations
To Kill a Mocking Bird
A christmas Carol
Hound of the Baskervilles
a friend of mine had to read Hamlet and Merchant of Venuis.
I remember hating to read anything by shakespear purely because I was in a class that weren't that big on reading in the frist place and the teacher made us read out loud. When I read on my own it was fine, but listening to others stumble was horrible!
Bewoulf
Julius Ceaser
Romeo and Juliet
Midsummers Nights Dream
Great Expectations
To Kill a Mocking Bird
A christmas Carol
Hound of the Baskervilles
a friend of mine had to read Hamlet and Merchant of Venuis.
I remember hating to read anything by shakespear purely because I was in a class that weren't that big on reading in the frist place and the teacher made us read out loud. When I read on my own it was fine, but listening to others stumble was horrible!
8hobbitprincess
My favorite was The Count of Monte Cristo, which I had to read in the 9th grade. I still have my copy (and it's been YEARS). (Four years after I read it, my brother had to read it. When he had my book, he drew a cartoon at the bottom of the pages so that when you flipped the pages, a man was parachuting off a cliff. I guess he wasn't as interested in the book as I was!) I also read a lot of Shakespeare. There was also The Scarlett Letter and Silas Marner.
I have a son in high school currently. I can't remember everything he's had to read, but it's been an interesting mix: Raisin in the Sun, Deathwatch, Speak, and On the Beach. Funny, but I don't recall his reading any "classics" except for Shakespeare. My older son is in college now, but I don't think he ever read any of the traditional books either.
I have a son in high school currently. I can't remember everything he's had to read, but it's been an interesting mix: Raisin in the Sun, Deathwatch, Speak, and On the Beach. Funny, but I don't recall his reading any "classics" except for Shakespeare. My older son is in college now, but I don't think he ever read any of the traditional books either.
9clamairy
My daughter is a Freshman in high school. So far I believe she's read To Kill a Mockingbird, The Odyssey and Oedipus Rex.
10hobbitprincess
Now that you mention it, I remember reading To Kill a Mockingbird myself. I wish my son's school would require what your daughter has read. He's read excerpts from The Odyssey, but that's about it.
I thought of another book he had to read, Stranger With My Face. I never read it because it just didn't sound interesting to me at all.
I thought of another book he had to read, Stranger With My Face. I never read it because it just didn't sound interesting to me at all.
11Tane
Kromes, we read that book when I was 15. I'm trying to think of others... there was the Chocolate War when I was 13 or so, and um... it's been a while I'll have to think about it for a bit.
12fyrefly98
Man, I've had to read the Odyssey three times for class. Once in ninth grade, again in tenth grade (switched school districts), and then again in Intro to Greek Mythology in college.
On the other hand, no one ever forced me through the Iliad, and I can't seem to get through it on my own, so it's languishing on my shelf, about 1/3 read and no progress being made.
On the other hand, no one ever forced me through the Iliad, and I can't seem to get through it on my own, so it's languishing on my shelf, about 1/3 read and no progress being made.
13RuneFirestar
Kromes! that reminds me in 10th I had to chose between The Chocolate War and I am the Cheese. I Read the later but I can't say I cared for it.
I also had to read Lord of the Flies. But that wasn't a favorite of mine either. I wasn't required to read The Scarlet Letter but I did have to Read the witch of Blackbird Pond.
I also had to read Lord of the Flies. But that wasn't a favorite of mine either. I wasn't required to read The Scarlet Letter but I did have to Read the witch of Blackbird Pond.
14sandragon
One not mentioned that I remember reading (and enjoying, although I would never have tried it on my own) was Summer of my German Soldier. Then we got to watch the movie with Kristy McNichol and Esther Rolle. It's about a 12 year old Jewish girl who meets an escaped German prisoner of war, and the connection she feels with him. Remembering it is giving me the shivers. I'll have to find myself a copy and reread it!
15monicabrandywine
A lot of what I read has already been mentioned. I also read The Good Earth by Pearl S. Buck, Animal Farm by George Orwell, Huckleberry Finn by Twain and The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger.
16Busifer
OK, this doesn't technically qualify as "high school", as the swedish system is quite different. But during roughly the same period I had to read Therese Raquin by Emile Zola, Voltaires Candide and All quiet on the Western front by Erich Maria Remarque, and, of course Hamlet. Also we had to read a few of the swedish classics, like Hemsöborna by Strindberg and Utvandrarna by Vilhelm Moberg. The last one is part one of three and is an epic about the time when roughly half of Sweden fled to North America to avoid widespread famine and death.
17mrgrooism
Let's see, HS books that I read that I would or would not recommend?
Besides those listed and frankly anything by The Bard, hmmm...
Nigger by Dick Gregory was a great lesson in understanding for a High School like mine that was PAINFULLY WHITE. I especially like the bit where he used to take his girlfriend to the movies and tip the usher to let them sit in the balcony; one day he didn't have money for the tip so decided to "settle" for sitting downstairs and was told he wasn't allowed downstairs because he was black. Powerful, necessary reading!
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller was especially powerful, that's a good, important read as well.
Franz Kafka's Metamorphosis and Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad also were good ones that shouldn't be missed.
Besides those listed and frankly anything by The Bard, hmmm...
Nigger by Dick Gregory was a great lesson in understanding for a High School like mine that was PAINFULLY WHITE. I especially like the bit where he used to take his girlfriend to the movies and tip the usher to let them sit in the balcony; one day he didn't have money for the tip so decided to "settle" for sitting downstairs and was told he wasn't allowed downstairs because he was black. Powerful, necessary reading!
Death of a Salesman by Arthur Miller was especially powerful, that's a good, important read as well.
Franz Kafka's Metamorphosis and Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad also were good ones that shouldn't be missed.
18Busifer
Urk!! I did definitely NOT like Heart of Darkness, which I was forced to read in the swedish equivalent to college!
19clamairy
Oh I loved it. I read it in English, though. Even though English wasn't Conrad's first language, he preferred to write in it, for some reason.
What about Anne Frank: The Diary of a Young Girl? I know I read it for school, but I cannot for the life of me remember what grade I was in.
What about Anne Frank: The Diary of a Young Girl? I know I read it for school, but I cannot for the life of me remember what grade I was in.
20Busifer
Maybe it's the FORCED thing that made me averse to it? I already have a mental note to myself to reread it sometime...
21reading_fox
To kill A Mockingbird seems to have been the most common, nearly everyone including me read it - its the only school book that I now re-read. One lucky class got to read Le Guin's Earthsea - which I do reread now, but I wasn't in that class unfortunetly.
Reading alound - I was frequently nominated by my classmates as the reader?! still not sure why, but i dind't mind and I think they mostly did.
My compulsary shakespere was Merchant of Venice, and I had Hardy's Mayor of Casterbridge. there must have been plenty of others in a five year period but they made little impression. There was something about a black fox I think. And Chocolate war, I remember enjoying that.
I always used to read ahead of where the class was. Thsi made writing essays on predicting what was coming up quite interesting!
Reading alound - I was frequently nominated by my classmates as the reader?! still not sure why, but i dind't mind and I think they mostly did.
My compulsary shakespere was Merchant of Venice, and I had Hardy's Mayor of Casterbridge. there must have been plenty of others in a five year period but they made little impression. There was something about a black fox I think. And Chocolate war, I remember enjoying that.
I always used to read ahead of where the class was. Thsi made writing essays on predicting what was coming up quite interesting!
22clamairy
I must have just located the memory card in my brain where my HS reading list was stored. LOL
I know Nectar in a Sieve, Travels with Charlie, The Pearl, Of Mice and Men, and The Lord of the Flies were on the list.
I know Nectar in a Sieve, Travels with Charlie, The Pearl, Of Mice and Men, and The Lord of the Flies were on the list.
23_Zoe_
I read Lord of the Flies, To Kill a Mockingbird, Twelfth Night, A Separate Peace, Fifth Business, Romeo and Juliet, and King Lear. We also got to choose one or two novels from a list each year, and we read a lot of short stories. I think Fifth Business was my favourite of the required books, though Twelfth Night is a close second. I really didn't like A Separate Peace - it wasn't so much that it was a horrible book as that it just couldn't compare to all the others. Though I wasn't really a fan of King Lear either.
24hobbitprincess
What's interesting is that some of the books mentioned can't be taught in my school district because they are too controversial. Although it may be otherwise in other areas of life, in literature, it seems many people are getting more and more prudish.
26Tane
Animal Farm was another school-book, along with Macbeth - but then I guess those two are probably quite common on the cirriculum?
Oh, Dorian Gray and Sons and Lovers, they were required reading during the summer before I started English at college, there were a few others, but honestly... I can't remember.
Oh, Dorian Gray and Sons and Lovers, they were required reading during the summer before I started English at college, there were a few others, but honestly... I can't remember.
27hobbitprincess
The books that we shouldn't teach includes Catcher in the Rye, Of Mice and Men, and Tom Sawyer. Just the other day we were told that if we taught The Chocolate War, we would essentially be putting our jobs on the line.
While Harry Potter has been used in the past, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole in the classroom!
While Harry Potter has been used in the past, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole in the classroom!
28Busifer
I just edited out a lot of exclamatory kinda strong words expressing I don't know why about what you're telling...
I've only heard of this in my daily newspapers' political and culture columns, and it feels VERY strange that in a country calling itself a democracy one of the very foundations of same can't be practiced.
I have no possibility to dive into tis now, as I'm currently on a train and my paid internet time's soon up, but as an scandinvian I'm interested in hearing reflexions on this from the rest of you. Is this common where you live, wherever that is, or are you as confounded as I am?
I've only heard of this in my daily newspapers' political and culture columns, and it feels VERY strange that in a country calling itself a democracy one of the very foundations of same can't be practiced.
I have no possibility to dive into tis now, as I'm currently on a train and my paid internet time's soon up, but as an scandinvian I'm interested in hearing reflexions on this from the rest of you. Is this common where you live, wherever that is, or are you as confounded as I am?
29Morphidae
I think it has to do with American's intense insecurity. We overprotect our children (banning books in schools,) expect that every product we touch to be 100% safe (spinach scare,) and even invade other countries!
It's all about fear.
It's all about fear.
30RuneFirestar
I remember having to read The Adventures of Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn for 10th grade lit.
I didn't see anything wrong with it.
I didn't see anything wrong with it.
31clamairy
Having lived in a few parts of this country, my general sense is that the middle and southern parts of the US are much more prone to censorship of books, and the arts in general, than are either of the coasts. I have my theories as why this is so, but I'll keep them to myself.
Edit: Let me just add that I'm happy to be living on the East Coast, again.
Edit: Let me just add that I'm happy to be living on the East Coast, again.
32Morphidae
It depends on what parts of the middle US. The upper MidWest tends to be a bit more liberal especially in the big cities such as Chicago and Minneapolis. Get into Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, etc. and yes, they are more likely to censor.
33clamairy
True, I'd say much of Wisconsin and Minnesota, and maybe some of Northern Illinois are much more liberal. I lived near Rockford for many years, and it was sort of mixed there. Forget about Southern Illinois. They'd probably burn parts of the Bible, if they actually read what was in it.
}:o)
}:o)
34NightAngel
Just dont get me started on censorships. WOW, I mean living in Alabama kills me sometimes. I miss Virginia.
35clamairy
I'm sure there are a lot of people who feel like you do, NA. I'm afraid there is a very vocal minority that gets its way with these book bannings, and the like. The squeaky wheel gets oiled, as they say.
36NightAngel
Too true. Especially in the South.
37Busifer
I know this is an argument that logic and reason can't win, partly because those two does not connect with the more base needs for beloning and absolute security. But do those people really believe that if their kids don't read or know of books like Chocolate war, then ...what? OK, I know - the books in question are seen as "blasphemous". But in my mind those people are no better than you know who - all extremists are dangerous, regardless of -ism or -ity, becasue they deprive the rest of us our right to our own thoughts and beliefs and in this they impoverish the society as a whole.
But I think the root of the problem is that it's very hard to argue with people who are convinced they're our morally betters, and when they resort to opression and violence reason stands numb... And thus a small but agressive minority can rule the silent crowds.
But I think the root of the problem is that it's very hard to argue with people who are convinced they're our morally betters, and when they resort to opression and violence reason stands numb... And thus a small but agressive minority can rule the silent crowds.
38Busifer
I want to add that this is no isolated phenomena. In Norway they recently edited certain words out of some of Astrid Lindgrens books. The word in question is "negro" - Pippi Långstrumps ("Longstockning") dad's described as a "negro king" in original language but they put "king of an Pacific Ocean island" there instead.
The reason being that negro is a word used in a derogatory and racist way. I agree on this, but does this give us the right to rehash books written long ago?
The reason being that negro is a word used in a derogatory and racist way. I agree on this, but does this give us the right to rehash books written long ago?
39BoPeep
My GCSE reading list (1986-88, when I was 14-16) included: Sons and Lovers, Fathers and Sons, Bliss, Macbeth, The Tempest, Much Ado About Nothing, Collected poems by Seamus Heaney, Ted Hughes and Philip Larkin, To Kill A Mockingbird, The Lord of the Flies, Hard Times, I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings, Crime and Punishment, 21 Stories, Schindler's Ark, and a number more including the Bronte sisters and Jane Austen of course. We were strongly encouraged to do a lot of wider reading, and given a list about 70 titles long. I think I read all of them.
At A level, I recall: Oedipus The King, The Heart of the Matter, The Taming of the Shrew, The French Lieutenant's Woman, Great Expectations, collected poems of Thomas Hardy, Tess of the D'urbervilles, and The Winter's Tale.
At A level, I recall: Oedipus The King, The Heart of the Matter, The Taming of the Shrew, The French Lieutenant's Woman, Great Expectations, collected poems of Thomas Hardy, Tess of the D'urbervilles, and The Winter's Tale.
40hobbitprincess
I live in the southern US, so that explains part of the book banning issues. I am totally and completely against censorship, and it disturbs me greatly that the voices of a few rule over the voices of many. I know there are some books that aren't school appropriate (I believe the Kamasutra was mentioned in another thread!), but the ones I listed earlier certainly are in my opinion. What's bizarre to me is that the kids hear the nastiest, raunchiest language imaginable in some of the music they hear, and I see it in notes that I confiscate (they know more about sex in 8th grade than I ever will!), but if a word like "damn" or "hell" shows up in a text we are reading, they refuse to read the word aloud. The parents that complain about those words have no clue what their children are listening to!
The whole Harry Potter issue is amazing to me too. Down here, these books have probably been the subject of more book banning talk than any other. Some lady in the area is even taking it to the US Supreme Court. The funniest part about that case is that the lady has not even read the book! I once had a lady at church tell me I should not let my boys read those books. I asked her (politely - she is older than I) if she had read any of them. She stammered around and admitted that she had not. I told her that I had, and I had no problem with them at all. She didn't say anything after that.
The whole Harry Potter issue is amazing to me too. Down here, these books have probably been the subject of more book banning talk than any other. Some lady in the area is even taking it to the US Supreme Court. The funniest part about that case is that the lady has not even read the book! I once had a lady at church tell me I should not let my boys read those books. I asked her (politely - she is older than I) if she had read any of them. She stammered around and admitted that she had not. I told her that I had, and I had no problem with them at all. She didn't say anything after that.
41Jargoneer
It is one of the peculiarities of modern society that while we are told consistently that films, games & music don't influence people, books are still held to be capable of doing this. Is this a hangover from a less technological age?
Censorship issues in the US are very strange - sex and blasphemy are no go areas, but violence and obscene language are acceptable. Why? I remember one critic saying that the US is possibly the only country in the world whether tv and film promote a 'make war, not love' agenda.
Busifer - the re-writing of children's classics seems to be a growing industry. In the UK, Enid Blyton has had her work rejigged for language, and stereotyping.
Censorship issues in the US are very strange - sex and blasphemy are no go areas, but violence and obscene language are acceptable. Why? I remember one critic saying that the US is possibly the only country in the world whether tv and film promote a 'make war, not love' agenda.
Busifer - the re-writing of children's classics seems to be a growing industry. In the UK, Enid Blyton has had her work rejigged for language, and stereotyping.
42KromesTomes
Jargoneer, you're right on about sex v. violence ... casual violence and gunplay are all over the tv without a problem, but out pops Janet Jackson's nipple and all hell breaks loose ...
43Busifer
I agree on some books not being suitable - I mean I don't let my 3 yr old son watch anything violent or bloodstained, and same with books - he's not old enough to understand irony and sarcasm, or feelings like melancholy and bitterness. I generallt try to steer him clear from anything with even the slightest hint of hate or menace in it - I want him to grow up to respect fellow humans and animals, and I want him to feel trust.
But we all know that's not what we're talking about here. And I wonder - what's the issue with Harry Potter? Is it that the witching and wizardry defy or is blasphemous to christianity and thus teaches defiance and blasphemy? Or is it a general notion that kids should sit quietly in a corner, not being independently creative? And how great a threat must it be percieved as when you take it to the US Supreme Court?
And what happens if you have those banned books at home? And if neighbours and visitors see them?
Excuse me, I'm having creeps all over. Normally things travels fast between the US and Sweden, and if this is a trend that follows that pattern we'll soon see it here and I don't know what to do then...
But we all know that's not what we're talking about here. And I wonder - what's the issue with Harry Potter? Is it that the witching and wizardry defy or is blasphemous to christianity and thus teaches defiance and blasphemy? Or is it a general notion that kids should sit quietly in a corner, not being independently creative? And how great a threat must it be percieved as when you take it to the US Supreme Court?
And what happens if you have those banned books at home? And if neighbours and visitors see them?
Excuse me, I'm having creeps all over. Normally things travels fast between the US and Sweden, and if this is a trend that follows that pattern we'll soon see it here and I don't know what to do then...
44fyrefly98
Busifer - That's exactly it with the Harry Potter.
Witchcraft - a black art and expressly forbidden in the bible - is presented as a positive thing, and should therefore not be read by kids, lest they start aspiring to practice the black arts themselvs. Because... the secret agenda of Harry Potter is promoting devil worship. Didn't you get that from reading them? :)
Most of the time, book banning fights here involve a) what can be taught in schools, b) what school libraries should have available to kids, and c) what public libraries should have available. I can't think of a case where it's extended to private collections... it's more of a "you can keep all of your devil-books at home, just don't let them within 100 yards of other people's kiddies" issue.
Witchcraft - a black art and expressly forbidden in the bible - is presented as a positive thing, and should therefore not be read by kids, lest they start aspiring to practice the black arts themselvs. Because... the secret agenda of Harry Potter is promoting devil worship. Didn't you get that from reading them? :)
Most of the time, book banning fights here involve a) what can be taught in schools, b) what school libraries should have available to kids, and c) what public libraries should have available. I can't think of a case where it's extended to private collections... it's more of a "you can keep all of your devil-books at home, just don't let them within 100 yards of other people's kiddies" issue.
45Busifer
OK, so what you're saying is that the censoring is in the public domain and that everyone can read whatever as long as it's in their private library... But does not this debate and banning reflect in what's for sale at the local bookstores? Sure, nowadays one can buy books online, but at least here local bookshops still fill a need...
I also have problems with the idea that those thinking that Harry Potter is devilry would let their kids socialize with my kids who may be under the influence of the devil (b'cause I let them read Harry Potter...)?
We have some sects like that in north Sweden (among other things one of them imagine windowcurtains as a kind of satan's knickers, hence no curtains...) and sometimes kids are not allowed to have secular friends... Sweden is a relatively speaking small country - only 9 million inhabitants - and those sects are few and far between, with some local influence but generally not much. I imagine it's on a much grander scale in the US, influcencing the society in a wider range ways...
But maybe I'm wrong.
I also have problems with the idea that those thinking that Harry Potter is devilry would let their kids socialize with my kids who may be under the influence of the devil (b'cause I let them read Harry Potter...)?
We have some sects like that in north Sweden (among other things one of them imagine windowcurtains as a kind of satan's knickers, hence no curtains...) and sometimes kids are not allowed to have secular friends... Sweden is a relatively speaking small country - only 9 million inhabitants - and those sects are few and far between, with some local influence but generally not much. I imagine it's on a much grander scale in the US, influcencing the society in a wider range ways...
But maybe I'm wrong.
46KromesTomes
Busifer wrote: "But does not this debate and banning reflect in what's for sale at the local bookstores?"
It definitely does! And it affects what people write and say, too. This is exactly what is meant by the "chilling effect" that censorship and First Amendment infringements have on free speech.
And regarding kids socializing, etc., we're currently dealing with a situation where my 13-year-old daughter is being harassed by students at school because she is pro-gay/anti-religion!
It definitely does! And it affects what people write and say, too. This is exactly what is meant by the "chilling effect" that censorship and First Amendment infringements have on free speech.
And regarding kids socializing, etc., we're currently dealing with a situation where my 13-year-old daughter is being harassed by students at school because she is pro-gay/anti-religion!
47Busifer
What you describe is the ugly effects that I feared for... and I feel kind of helpless as to what to do to make it better.
48clamairy
Ack, KromesTomes, that's awful! When we lived in Northern Illinois my daughter was repeatedly told by some of her classmates that she was going to Hell, because we don't attend church. This was while she was in Kindergarten through 3rd grade. Nice things some people teach their children to think and say.
Oh, and KromeTomes, I noticed you haven't officially joined our group yet! Please do. :o)
Busifer, I just about widdled my pants reading about window curtains being the Devil's Knickers. Bwaa haa haa!!!
Well, the whole issue of religion being at the basis for 99% of these issues is very distressing to me. And it's true that many of these people don't want to give their children the freedom to think and chose for themselves, because they truly believe that their children's souls are at stake.
Oh, and KromeTomes, I noticed you haven't officially joined our group yet! Please do. :o)
Busifer, I just about widdled my pants reading about window curtains being the Devil's Knickers. Bwaa haa haa!!!
Well, the whole issue of religion being at the basis for 99% of these issues is very distressing to me. And it's true that many of these people don't want to give their children the freedom to think and chose for themselves, because they truly believe that their children's souls are at stake.
49Jargoneer
Why has religion become so problematic in the US? I remember growing up thinking that the US looked the most wonderful place in the world. Compared to the UK, it appeared to be free of all the smallmindedness that strangled daily life here. Now, when I look at the US I see a country travelling backwards, away from it's ideals.
50Morphidae
The US, like most countries, swings back and forth between the left (liberal/Democrat) and the right (conservative/Republican) You'll find most religious extremists tend to be on the far right. We are just now starting to swing back to center (I hope!) as was shown by the Democrats taking control of our Congress.
51SimonW11
41> Not just Enid Blyton, Charlie and the Chocolate factory and most of Hugh Loftings books have been amended. I recall that some Dr Dolittle Titles were un touched because only unmodified texts can lay claim to their Carnegie or was it Newbery awards.
52hobbitprincess
I suppose there are small-minded people everywhere, but why do they always seem to be Christians when it shows up in the media? It greatly disturbs me because I am a practicing Christian, and I do not hold those narrow tolerances at all. To me, one of the greatest aspects of the US is the freedom to believe, or not believe, as we please. The Bible clearly says, "Judge not", and that's one thing I live by. I am very interested in what others believe and love to learn about the views others have. I am very interested in the practices of the pre-Christian Celtic peoples because so much of those rituals are present in Christian holidays and practices today. Don't assume that all Christians are militant, small-minded, holier than thou people, because very, very many of us aren't that way at all.
As a public school teacher, I firmly believe that school is not where religion needs to be taught, and that's where the Harry Potter issue disturbs me the most. This woman is attempting to force her beliefs on everyone else. If she feels so strongly, then perhaps her child should be in a private school. I have 2 sons, and I would hope that their faith is strong enough to stand up to any challenge they might encounter. Sheltering children by keeping them from those who believe differently than the parents do is a recipe for disaster. Harry Potter is a delightful story of a boy who gets to live out the fantasies many children have; that's why I think the books have been so successful. Who hasn't thought about how cool it would be to fly around and have power over the things that hurt us?
(I am eagerly awaiting book 7. I guess I still have a lot of that child inside of me!)
As a public school teacher, I firmly believe that school is not where religion needs to be taught, and that's where the Harry Potter issue disturbs me the most. This woman is attempting to force her beliefs on everyone else. If she feels so strongly, then perhaps her child should be in a private school. I have 2 sons, and I would hope that their faith is strong enough to stand up to any challenge they might encounter. Sheltering children by keeping them from those who believe differently than the parents do is a recipe for disaster. Harry Potter is a delightful story of a boy who gets to live out the fantasies many children have; that's why I think the books have been so successful. Who hasn't thought about how cool it would be to fly around and have power over the things that hurt us?
(I am eagerly awaiting book 7. I guess I still have a lot of that child inside of me!)
53Morphidae
hobbitprincess,
I think there are a lot more Christians of your ilk than the extremists. It's just that they are so bloody LOUD! You could have a room filled with rocking chairs but it's the one that squeaks that gets paid attention to, sadly.
Reminds me of a quote, "The Moral Majority is neither."
Another stray thought, the majority of Christians are "Christ-like" and therefore "peaceful." Therefore you won't see them in the middle of conflicts. They quietly live their lives in accordance with their beliefs. I sure wish more people would do that. Wouldn't it make the world a fabulous place?
I think there are a lot more Christians of your ilk than the extremists. It's just that they are so bloody LOUD! You could have a room filled with rocking chairs but it's the one that squeaks that gets paid attention to, sadly.
Reminds me of a quote, "The Moral Majority is neither."
Another stray thought, the majority of Christians are "Christ-like" and therefore "peaceful." Therefore you won't see them in the middle of conflicts. They quietly live their lives in accordance with their beliefs. I sure wish more people would do that. Wouldn't it make the world a fabulous place?
54Busifer
I'm atheist, but I also strongly believe that everyone has a right to his or her personal belief as long as they don't try to force it on others OR as long as they do treat others with the same respect.
As always, the problem is the really orthodox people. And that does not only apply to extremist christians but to muslims (the muslim majority is as secular or nonjudgemental as any normal christian), atheists (of the New Atheism kind), liberals, socialists, conservative people... etc - as long as they're judging or condemning others based on their own version of "truth".
As always, the problem is the really orthodox people. And that does not only apply to extremist christians but to muslims (the muslim majority is as secular or nonjudgemental as any normal christian), atheists (of the New Atheism kind), liberals, socialists, conservative people... etc - as long as they're judging or condemning others based on their own version of "truth".
55fyrefly98
everyone has a right to his or her personal belief as long as they don't try to force it on others
There's the problem. The militant right-wingers (and others as well) have no such compunction - their way is The One Right Way, and you'd darn well better believe it too. It's a question of motivation... if we think "everyone can believe what they want", we're not motivated to go out there and make sure that everyone else also believes that everyone can believe what they want. On the other hand, people who are convinced that everyone should believe what they believe are frequently motivated to go out and use the power of the legislature to make that a reality. Religions/beliefs that put an emphasis on "the one right way" and on conversion of non-believers will have a (legislative) advantage over the more relativistic "well, this is right for me" beliefs.
That being said, I've got a bumper sticker that I love that says "Militant agnostic: I don't know and you don't either."
There's the problem. The militant right-wingers (and others as well) have no such compunction - their way is The One Right Way, and you'd darn well better believe it too. It's a question of motivation... if we think "everyone can believe what they want", we're not motivated to go out there and make sure that everyone else also believes that everyone can believe what they want. On the other hand, people who are convinced that everyone should believe what they believe are frequently motivated to go out and use the power of the legislature to make that a reality. Religions/beliefs that put an emphasis on "the one right way" and on conversion of non-believers will have a (legislative) advantage over the more relativistic "well, this is right for me" beliefs.
That being said, I've got a bumper sticker that I love that says "Militant agnostic: I don't know and you don't either."
56Busifer
Well, of course that's the problem... and that's what those militant New Atheists have identified. The problem is that they do the same thing as those they reject, and I'm sorry but that's not my style at all. I can be pretty stubborn when I know I'm right, or at least ought to be listened to. But as long as people behave decently I don't care what clothes they wear or what beliefs they hold - it's the individual that matters.
In many ways this a Gordian knot, and that's why I sometimes feel despair - these holier-than-thou folks have the upper hand in them being arrogantly disrespectful...
/corrected some typos... close to midnight here, time to sleep :-) /
In many ways this a Gordian knot, and that's why I sometimes feel despair - these holier-than-thou folks have the upper hand in them being arrogantly disrespectful...
/corrected some typos... close to midnight here, time to sleep :-) /
57sunxflowerxseeds First Message
I am currently in grade 11 and so far I have read, in school:
Night by Elie Wiesel
Of Mice and Men by John Steinback.
Twelfth Night by Shakespeare.
Macbeth by Shakespeare.
To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee.
The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger.
Lord of the Flies by William Golding.
And another book I don't remember, Lives of the saints or something.
Night by Elie Wiesel
Of Mice and Men by John Steinback.
Twelfth Night by Shakespeare.
Macbeth by Shakespeare.
To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee.
The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger.
Lord of the Flies by William Golding.
And another book I don't remember, Lives of the saints or something.
58cjacklen
It's been awhile for me, but I remember reading Beowulf, Julius Caesar, A Tale of Two Cities, The Scarlett Letter, MacBeth, 1984, The War of the Worlds, Romeo and Juliet, Tom Sawyer, Jane Eyre, The Importance of Being Earnest, A Streetcar Named Desire and other Tenessee Williams plays, Huckleberry Finn, Around the World in 80 Days, The Tell-Tale Heart, something by Guy de Maupassant, Moby Dick, and Uncle Tom's Cabin. We did a large unit on poetry at some point, but I hate poetry and don't remember any of it except the chapter on Sylvia Plath and a bit of Hemingway.
Strangely, I know for sure that we did not read To Kill a Mockingbird, because I remember going to the library for it when my out-of-town friends were discussing it. We read something by John Steinbeck but I don't remember what it was. It wasn't Of Mice and Men or Grapes of Wrath, because I remember reading those on my own too.
I went to high school in an extremely small rural school in Kansas, and I don't remember any censorship issues. Then again, things have changed in the past 10 years, and the current students there might not be so lucky.
Strangely, I know for sure that we did not read To Kill a Mockingbird, because I remember going to the library for it when my out-of-town friends were discussing it. We read something by John Steinbeck but I don't remember what it was. It wasn't Of Mice and Men or Grapes of Wrath, because I remember reading those on my own too.
I went to high school in an extremely small rural school in Kansas, and I don't remember any censorship issues. Then again, things have changed in the past 10 years, and the current students there might not be so lucky.
59mrgrooism
{{{{{{HobbitPrincess!!!}}}}}}}
Man, hugs to you, that is the most disgusting thing I've heard this week, in a supposedly FREE COUNTRY for books such as these (And of course ANY BOOKS) to be banned form schools is just sickening.
What part of the country do you live? (You don't have to be specific, just general region)
Man, hugs to you, that is the most disgusting thing I've heard this week, in a supposedly FREE COUNTRY for books such as these (And of course ANY BOOKS) to be banned form schools is just sickening.
What part of the country do you live? (You don't have to be specific, just general region)
60mrgrooism
I suppose there are small-minded people everywhere, but why do they always seem to be Christians when it shows up in the media? It greatly disturbs me because I am a practicing Christian, and I do not hold those narrow tolerances at all.
It's all about stereotyping and defining individuals by their group relationships.
Just because there are extremists in Christianity who have these evil and bizarrre notions, doesn't mean that ALL Christians are like this, or even most - even MANY!
Same thing when we define Muslims by what their extremists do and say.. as if ALL Muslims or ALL Arabs are Terrorists, ridiculous!!!
See, sometimes in complaining about behavior we don't agree with, we can launch into unintentional stereotyping.
Christianity is a simple label for a very large and very, very diverse group of people. Some can be VERY INTOLERANT and JUDGEMENTAL (ideas that Christ would find apalling) and forget the MESSAGE OF LOVE AND ACCEPTANCE that is the TRUE root of Christianity.
It's sad.
That's why I worship THOR!!! ;>)
It's all about stereotyping and defining individuals by their group relationships.
Just because there are extremists in Christianity who have these evil and bizarrre notions, doesn't mean that ALL Christians are like this, or even most - even MANY!
Same thing when we define Muslims by what their extremists do and say.. as if ALL Muslims or ALL Arabs are Terrorists, ridiculous!!!
See, sometimes in complaining about behavior we don't agree with, we can launch into unintentional stereotyping.
Christianity is a simple label for a very large and very, very diverse group of people. Some can be VERY INTOLERANT and JUDGEMENTAL (ideas that Christ would find apalling) and forget the MESSAGE OF LOVE AND ACCEPTANCE that is the TRUE root of Christianity.
It's sad.
That's why I worship THOR!!! ;>)
63Morphidae
Reminds me of a risque joke. The punchline is (by a woman with a lisp,) "You're Thor?!? *I'M* thore!!!"
65mrgrooism
"You're Thor?!? *I'M* thore!!!"
BWAAAH-HAAAH-HAAAAAH-HAAAAAAAH!!! Oh I remember that one all righty!!!
BWAAAH-HAAAH-HAAAAAH-HAAAAAAAH!!! Oh I remember that one all righty!!!
66Busifer
Excuse my ignorance, but could anybody tell a poor scandinavian illiterate what "thore" is? I haven't been able to find anyone who can tell me (OK, I haven't asked the canadian tutor of the course I'm sitting in at, but somehow it doesn't seem appropriate...)
67fyrefly98
Is lisping just an english thing? Anyways, a lisp is a speech impediment; people with a lisp tend to pronounce "s"s as "th"s. Tho a thententhe with a lot of "eth"th would thound like thith.
In short, thore = sore.
:)
In short, thore = sore.
:)
68Busifer
OK, I didn't get that... Lisping is definitely not limited to english speakers, but knowing the language well makes it simpler to identify which words are meant by the lisper... I didn't make the "thore" > "sore" connection ;-)
Thanks!
Thanks!
69hobbitprincess
mrgrooism, I live in the Southern US in a huge metropolitan area with a very diverse population, but some of the extreme conservatism still prevails.
70cjacklen
I just remembered...
A month or so ago there was a big deal on the Wichita news where a 5th or 6th grade teacher took her class to an art museum. ONE of the kids later told his mom he saw ONE partially nude portrait, the mom complained to the school, and the teacher got suspended. The way I understand it, she was a much-beloved teacher with a spotless record, and she lost her job just for trying to inject a little culture into kids' lives.
One of these days I am going to move to civilization, because things like this are ridiculously common in the "Bible Belt."
PS: By the way, I was shocked to learn there even WAS a museum anywhere near here...
A month or so ago there was a big deal on the Wichita news where a 5th or 6th grade teacher took her class to an art museum. ONE of the kids later told his mom he saw ONE partially nude portrait, the mom complained to the school, and the teacher got suspended. The way I understand it, she was a much-beloved teacher with a spotless record, and she lost her job just for trying to inject a little culture into kids' lives.
One of these days I am going to move to civilization, because things like this are ridiculously common in the "Bible Belt."
PS: By the way, I was shocked to learn there even WAS a museum anywhere near here...
71SimonW11
Few peoples however Use the Th sound. Scandanavians pronounce Thor like Thor Heyerdahl asperating the o T'hor
Simon
Simon
72Busifer
Well, actually we spell and pronounce it Tor, and no, we haven't institutionalized lisping in the way we speak but lisping IS a common speech defect...
:-)
:-)
73Busifer
Cjacklen > You all live in a weird country... When I first visited the US in the mid-90's I went to New Orleans, to a conference (ACM/SigGraph, by the way), and I constantly felt like dropped into a Jim Jarmush movie like Down by Law or maybe Mystery Train... And approaching the airport from above put Sim City into mind...
You know, to many of us outsiders some aspects of the US are almost mythical, made so in part by books and movies.
But this censor thing is what gives me the creeps. Because in this mythical version of the US the most sacred thing of all is the rights to speak and to think without risking persecution...
You know, to many of us outsiders some aspects of the US are almost mythical, made so in part by books and movies.
But this censor thing is what gives me the creeps. Because in this mythical version of the US the most sacred thing of all is the rights to speak and to think without risking persecution...
74fyrefly98
Trust me, it scares a lot of us that live here, too.
Not enough of us, apparently, but a lot of us.
Not enough of us, apparently, but a lot of us.
75SimonW11
Tor umm yes, vaguely... that rings a bell. So Thor Heyerdahl's parents could not spell or Thor means something totally different or Norweigens aren't real scandanavians or what?
SImon
SImon
76mrgrooism
...in this mythical version of the US the most sacred thing of all is the rights to speak and to think without risking persecution...
Mythical, ohhh how sad but true! We have been backsliding, that's for sure!
Mythical, ohhh how sad but true! We have been backsliding, that's for sure!
77clamairy
I don't think we've backslid, at all. It's always been this way. People from the North who travelled to the South were often lynched or beaten for behaving in ways that wouldn't have gotten them a second look on their home ground. The same holds true when people from urban surroundings head to very rural or backwoods locals.
I think we just are more aware of these things than we ever were before.
I think we just are more aware of these things than we ever were before.
78mrgrooism
We have made major, significant social progress, but I think some of the progess toward openess, tolerance and acceptance of people who are DIFFERENT made through the 90's has started slipping backwards away from tolerance.
79mrgrooism
Why, even here at LT if we wish to post an opinion, we must first submit, heee heeeee!!!
80Busifer
Simon > well, spelling is personal, I've seen lots of variations even on the simplest names, but the god Tor is spelled just that way :-)
81Busifer
On the other matter, I'll argue that Clam is right, partly because I recognize it from my part of the planet. And what's happened is not a slide back, but we have evolved a more transparent society where local quirks are made very visible to everyone outside, or maybe exposed are the right word... This makes the other more threatening, forcing the local into tribal and thus more fierce in it's protection of it's markers?
It's a thought, anyway...
It's a thought, anyway...
83hobbitprincess
I was listening to the radio this morning, and the story about the lady protesting HP in school libraries came up again. I thought of it in a different light - she is only protesting; she hasn't achieved anything yet and is likely not to. She is free, however, to protest to her heart's content, and that is not a bad thing.
I think about the books that teachers have been told to stay away from in the classroom, and I wonder what would happen if a parent challenged a book being taught that was not on an "approved" list. The school board might not like it, but would their disapproval stand up in court, if challenged by the teacher?
I don't know . . .
I think about the books that teachers have been told to stay away from in the classroom, and I wonder what would happen if a parent challenged a book being taught that was not on an "approved" list. The school board might not like it, but would their disapproval stand up in court, if challenged by the teacher?
I don't know . . .
84Busifer
I hope you're right, and I hope that parents dare stand up in defense of (at least some of) the banned books.
85mrgrooism
Well, a TEACHER should be free to choose what the class reads, it's when the teachers are told by outsiders that certain books are inapropriate that it becomes censorship.
(To a point. i wouldn't want Howard Stern's Private Parts read to a class of 3rd Graders)
(To a point. i wouldn't want Howard Stern's Private Parts read to a class of 3rd Graders)
86sandragon
hobbitprincess and other teachers,
How about when a student comes to you for suggestions on books to read on their own time? Do you feel free to recommend what they may enjoy, regardless of an approved books list? What with programs like Accelerated Reader and approved lists, I worry that my kids are going to be un-encouraged to read by schools. So far this doesn't seem to be a problem, but my oldest is only in kindergarten and he gets books out of the school library that interest him for us to read to him. As far as I know there are no restrictions. I'll have to ask him for clarification.
How about when a student comes to you for suggestions on books to read on their own time? Do you feel free to recommend what they may enjoy, regardless of an approved books list? What with programs like Accelerated Reader and approved lists, I worry that my kids are going to be un-encouraged to read by schools. So far this doesn't seem to be a problem, but my oldest is only in kindergarten and he gets books out of the school library that interest him for us to read to him. As far as I know there are no restrictions. I'll have to ask him for clarification.
87hobbitprincess
I teach 8th graders, and I love to talk to them about what they read. I totally disregard any "approved" lists in these discussions. So few children are reading for pleasure (at least that I see - their parents don't LT!), I am thrilled to see them reading anything. We do have Accelerated Reader at my school; the list of books is huge, so that hasn't really been an issue. If a student wants to read something that is not AR, I am all for it. Well, within reason. Howard Stern would definitely be off my recommended list for 13 - 14 year olds.
88Sabarade
I love this LT thing! Moving from a discussion of high school curricula through Norse mythology and then into censorship. All we really need is a good pub and we could be a reading club. :) My daughter is in second grade in the "liberal" west of the US, and we are reading everything that interests her at this point. We own hundreds of children's books, and my wife and I read widely (she is a professor and I'm a wannabe). My parents just left us to our own desires, buying books that would challenge us and leaving them accessible. What the schools did or didn't allow was not really relevant... but then I grew up in Seattle before it was a "rich" city.
89monicabrandywine
Well, I'm late to the party, but I just wanted to say that as a Bible-believing Christian and homeschooler, I definately plan on having my children read some of these banned books, because I loved them so much in high school. The Chocolate War, Catcher in the Rye, Huckleberry Finn - I have no problem with any of these books and if I've done my job as a parent now when my tribe is young, when they get to junior/high school age, they can read them, discuss them with me and we can talk about why some Christians dislike those books. I'm a Yankee, so, that may have some thing to do with the way I think. :)
And Clam, I'm sorry your girl had to go through that on the bus.
And Clam, I'm sorry your girl had to go through that on the bus.
90NightAngel
Monica, that is precisely the way I feel about it. If parents are so worried about this stuff then they havent done their job as a parent to instill the ideas and morals these kids need in order to make thier own decisions. Its just sad how parents these days caudle their kids and try to shelter them entirely too much but they fail to realize they havent been a good role model and havent taught their kids anything but instead instill their own prejudices in them. Its very very frustrating.
91Esta1923
Lovely indeed to see all this action! And I will, if I may, interject several thoughts: as children we read any book that came to hand (in a home with 7 grown-ups that gave us wide range!) So I know there is no need for the strict limits sometimes imposed. **Since I've just read thru ALL the postings please let me add: when #14 mentioned "Summer of My German Soldier," I heard the voice of an irate professor saying, "You were critical of that father beating his daughter. I want you to know I TAKE OFF MY BELT AND BEAT MY CHILDREN!" He was responding to my radio chat about the book. These many years later I still hear him. Esta1923
92clamairy
# 91 - Esta1923, wouldn't you just love to track down that professor now, or at least his daughter, and find out how she turned out?
I agree about most kids not needing strict limits on what they read. I let my daughter read just about everything she shows an interest in, at this point. I only wish my son would show some interest, even in books I don't care for.
I agree about most kids not needing strict limits on what they read. I let my daughter read just about everything she shows an interest in, at this point. I only wish my son would show some interest, even in books I don't care for.
93MrsLee
Chiming in late as I read through the chatty threads. Now I see we've already delved into religion too, so any worries I may have had were unfounded. Thank you hobbitprincess and others for trying to illuminate how many Christians feel. I think it is important for everyone to understand that as individuals we all make many choices from many motivations.
I can understand the fear some parents have. For some, it is a matter of trying to remain pure hearted and keeping oneself separate from the world. I have many friends like this. Most of us home school. We had a high school literature class together and one mother chose not to have her daughter participate when we read To Kill a Mockingbird, which is one of my favorite books, I would go so far as to say every American should read it, but not must. Anyway, they simply didn't participate in that lesson and found another book which had some of the same themes and was also an excellent book.
Public schools do not lend themselves to this flexibility, and that is where problems arise. Some Christians are just as upset that the homosexual agenda is being forced upon them as atheists are upset that religious rituals (prayer) are being practiced in the public arena. Both sides call names and scream "fanatic". As humans, we all get mad when we don't get our particular way. I think all humans are guilty of this: If you don't agree with me, you are intolerant. We have forgotten the original meaning of tolerance. It wasn't that we all agree, it was that we all could agree to disagree and still live alongside one another.
There have been some books I have asked my children to wait a couple of years to read. I felt their understanding would be better if they were a bit older. Now that they are teens, for the most part they choose the movies, books and music they listen to. I don't always think they make great choices, but we talk about issues in the media together and some of our best discussions have come from that. There is a limit. I don't allow pornography, random, willful explicit violence, or extreme foul language in my home. My guidelines for them are that Christ dwells within them, seeing that they profess belief, so live in such a way that He would be happy there. That is what we strive for, what we achieve, well.
Busifer, I had to laugh when you asked about those who like to ban books coming into your home. Having friends from all stripes, it is a concern, I try not to flaunt my liberalism (I mean freedom of belief by that) in their face, but if they are my friends, and are concerned enough to ask me, I am happy to talk to them about my freedom.
Also, the art museum. We live hundreds of miles from any excellent art museums, so I bought a calendar of Da Vinci's works. My boys, who were 8 and 11, made me put a cloth over the nude women!
I find it very hard walking the tightrope of being a parent. I think for some it is just easier to say no to everything rather than think out all the ramifications of your decisions and discuss them with your children. It's exhausting, but worth it in the end.
I hope this is coherent, I know it is too long! Sorry.
I can understand the fear some parents have. For some, it is a matter of trying to remain pure hearted and keeping oneself separate from the world. I have many friends like this. Most of us home school. We had a high school literature class together and one mother chose not to have her daughter participate when we read To Kill a Mockingbird, which is one of my favorite books, I would go so far as to say every American should read it, but not must. Anyway, they simply didn't participate in that lesson and found another book which had some of the same themes and was also an excellent book.
Public schools do not lend themselves to this flexibility, and that is where problems arise. Some Christians are just as upset that the homosexual agenda is being forced upon them as atheists are upset that religious rituals (prayer) are being practiced in the public arena. Both sides call names and scream "fanatic". As humans, we all get mad when we don't get our particular way. I think all humans are guilty of this: If you don't agree with me, you are intolerant. We have forgotten the original meaning of tolerance. It wasn't that we all agree, it was that we all could agree to disagree and still live alongside one another.
There have been some books I have asked my children to wait a couple of years to read. I felt their understanding would be better if they were a bit older. Now that they are teens, for the most part they choose the movies, books and music they listen to. I don't always think they make great choices, but we talk about issues in the media together and some of our best discussions have come from that. There is a limit. I don't allow pornography, random, willful explicit violence, or extreme foul language in my home. My guidelines for them are that Christ dwells within them, seeing that they profess belief, so live in such a way that He would be happy there. That is what we strive for, what we achieve, well.
Busifer, I had to laugh when you asked about those who like to ban books coming into your home. Having friends from all stripes, it is a concern, I try not to flaunt my liberalism (I mean freedom of belief by that) in their face, but if they are my friends, and are concerned enough to ask me, I am happy to talk to them about my freedom.
Also, the art museum. We live hundreds of miles from any excellent art museums, so I bought a calendar of Da Vinci's works. My boys, who were 8 and 11, made me put a cloth over the nude women!
I find it very hard walking the tightrope of being a parent. I think for some it is just easier to say no to everything rather than think out all the ramifications of your decisions and discuss them with your children. It's exhausting, but worth it in the end.
I hope this is coherent, I know it is too long! Sorry.
94Busifer
#93 - I think it was VERY coherent, and at least I agree with most of your sentiments. What I don't agree with, and just to make it clear I do not attatch any of the following with you Mrs Lee, is people who try to build independent communities within. Be it the Hells Angels bikers or some of the religious sects (irrespective of faith or denomination).
We share this earth, and we have to tolerate each other. This diversity makes for one of the primary premises for humankinds success on this planet, or so I believe.
Another thing I don't agree with, and same here Mrs Lee - I understand we have the same view on this, is when people tries to impose their taste and beliefs or disbeliefs on others. And in my view that what's the discussion above was ultimately about. But that may be my personal interpretation of it...
We share this earth, and we have to tolerate each other. This diversity makes for one of the primary premises for humankinds success on this planet, or so I believe.
Another thing I don't agree with, and same here Mrs Lee - I understand we have the same view on this, is when people tries to impose their taste and beliefs or disbeliefs on others. And in my view that what's the discussion above was ultimately about. But that may be my personal interpretation of it...
95fyrefly98
>93 MrsLee: think out all the ramifications of your decisions and discuss them with your children. It's exhausting, but worth it in the end. Good on ya. :) More discussion is never a bad thing.
That sort of indirectly brings up something that always bothers me about people who try to make censorship arguments based on faith. If people have so little trust in their faith (or their kids' faith) that they're worried that it might be destroyed or even weakened by reading a book or seeing a movie or talking to a person that challenges it? If a belief can't hold up to exposure to a conflicting viewpoint, then it seems to me like that belief wasn't worth protecting in the first place.
That sort of indirectly brings up something that always bothers me about people who try to make censorship arguments based on faith. If people have so little trust in their faith (or their kids' faith) that they're worried that it might be destroyed or even weakened by reading a book or seeing a movie or talking to a person that challenges it? If a belief can't hold up to exposure to a conflicting viewpoint, then it seems to me like that belief wasn't worth protecting in the first place.
96hobbitprincess
>95 fyrefly98: I agree totally!
97MrsLee
#95 I think you are right, but I think fear and, how do I phrase it, not wanting to put the time in that is necessary for the discussion, makes it easier to just say no. Then they don't have to think about it. Also, many believe without intellectual thought. Does that sound harsh? I'm not trying to criticize them, it's just that not everyone is trained to think through things logically. It is easier to avoid them all together. In the Bible Paul refers to it as the "weaker" brethren. Not morally or spiritually inferior, just not able to handle so much open-mindedness.
98punkypower
Okay, my rant about the banned books issue will be for another day.
Until then, fyrefly, LOVE the topic! I'm like you, as I'm kicking myself for not reading the books I was supposed to and getting rid of them after the semester.
Here's the ones that come to mind from elementary high school, and my children's lit college classes(mostly the ones that I read! :P):
The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe
Jane Eyre
The Member of the Wedding
Romeo and Juliet
The Robe
Oedipus Rex
Oedipus the King
Antigone
Rebecca
The Great Gatsby
A Farewell to Arms
Lost Horizon
Brave New World
The Things They Carried
O Pioneers
The Picture of Dorian Gray
Lost Horizon
Amphigorey
Bloody Chamber--to be honest, we only read one of the short stories, but I bought the book to find more like them.
Great Expectations
The Grapes of Wrath
The Fountainhead
Harry Reed, Inc
Harriet the Spy
Sounder
Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry
Little Women
Like Water for Chocolate
The Princess and the Goblin
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Princess Ashley
The Catcher in the Rye
The Secret Garden
The Wind and the Willows
Treasure Island
Black Beauty
The Hobbit
Alice in Wonderland
Sula
Around the World in 80 days
Sing-Song
When We Were Very Young
The Wonderful Wizard of Oz
Julius Caesar
The Merchant of Venice
Hamlet
Othello
Beowulf
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
A Tale of Two Cities
MacBeth
ugh..wish I could remember the rest.. :(
Until then, fyrefly, LOVE the topic! I'm like you, as I'm kicking myself for not reading the books I was supposed to and getting rid of them after the semester.
Here's the ones that come to mind from elementary high school, and my children's lit college classes(mostly the ones that I read! :P):
The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe
Jane Eyre
The Member of the Wedding
Romeo and Juliet
The Robe
Oedipus Rex
Oedipus the King
Antigone
Rebecca
The Great Gatsby
A Farewell to Arms
Lost Horizon
Brave New World
The Things They Carried
O Pioneers
The Picture of Dorian Gray
Lost Horizon
Amphigorey
Bloody Chamber--to be honest, we only read one of the short stories, but I bought the book to find more like them.
Great Expectations
The Grapes of Wrath
The Fountainhead
Harry Reed, Inc
Harriet the Spy
Sounder
Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry
Little Women
Like Water for Chocolate
The Princess and the Goblin
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Princess Ashley
The Catcher in the Rye
The Secret Garden
The Wind and the Willows
Treasure Island
Black Beauty
The Hobbit
Alice in Wonderland
Sula
Around the World in 80 days
Sing-Song
When We Were Very Young
The Wonderful Wizard of Oz
Julius Caesar
The Merchant of Venice
Hamlet
Othello
Beowulf
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
A Tale of Two Cities
MacBeth
ugh..wish I could remember the rest.. :(
99MrsLee
I've been thinking and thinking. I'm not sure whether my memory is failing, or we had a terrible high school (it was very small), or whether there was an experiment in education at that time, late 70's, early 80's. Anyway, I don't remember being assigned any books to read in high school. We had textbooks with excerpts from lots of books. I hated that. I was an avid reader anyway, but most of the books listed above I've read since I became an adult. In high school I only read historical romances, sci-fi, westerns, mysteries and fantasy books.
Has anyone else ever heard of this?
Has anyone else ever heard of this?
100GeorgiaDawn
#99 MrsLee - My high school experience sounds very similar to yours. We did read Hiroshima, Othello, and Romeo and Juliet in high school and Great Expectations in junior high. I read alot on my own, but I don't remember any more required reading other than excerpts in textbooks. Surely it's not from memory failure! I was in high school about the same time you were (graduated in the late 70's).
101hobbitprincess
MrsLee and GeorgiaDawn - I'm right there with you. I remember one book a year in high school, plus one Shakespeare play a year. I don't remember reading any books in junior high. We did have the literature anthologies. When I started teaching school 7 years ago (after a career in banking - I was in high school in the late 70s too), I was so surprised to learn that there was a wealth of high-quality literature for young adults. I've been reading it ever since, along with my "adult" reading.
102MrsLee
This is why the whole business of trying new methods of education is so scary. Who knows what one is monkeying around with? Spoken from one who messes with "traditional" methods of education quite a bit...
103Busifer
We had those anthologies in Sweden as well - maybe it's a 70's thing? I remember reading a lot of swedish classics ("I'm so hungry, my sister starved to death last winter, there's a lot of fleas everywhere, let's board a ship and go to the promised land /america/"), along with some french ones (translated, mind you; Zola, Voltaire, Moliere) + all these YA anthologies stuffed with snippets.
I thought most of that stuff boring, but by then I was a resident citizen of the local library ;-)
I thought most of that stuff boring, but by then I was a resident citizen of the local library ;-)
104hobbitprincess
I have a stack of literature anthologies sitting in my classroom right now. I don't use them very much. Busifer, your Swedish classics have the same themes as what we see in anthologies here. If it's humorous and uplifting, it won't make it into the books!
105woolylogic
I don't like my school at all, but one of the only good things about is that we've read a lot of books. I've included "outside reading" and summer reading on the list, hope that's okay! I feel obnoxious posting all of them because it takes up so much space, but I guess I'll go ahead anyway because if I delete the bad ones then it really won't be representative of what I've been forced to read now will it? I'm in 12th grade now, here's what we've read in chronological order, (mostly anyway):
Julius Caesar
The Oedipus Cycle
The Odyssey
Lord of the Flies
The Canterbury Tales
The Decameron (parts of)
Jane Eyre
Walden (parts of)
Secret Life of Bees
Lovely Bones
The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime
Flatland
Washington Square
The Red Badge of Courage
The Crucible
The Awakening
Their Eyes Were Watching God
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
The Glass Menagerie
To Kill a Mockingbird, (middleschool)
Billy Budd, Sailor
A Farewell to Arms
The Old Man and the Sea
The Great Gatsby
Winesburg Ohio
Cannery Row
The Heart is a Lonely Hunter
A Midsummer Night’s Dream
Macbeth
Henry V
Twelfth Night
Othello
The Armada
The Elizabethan World Picture
The Diary of a Madman, The Government Inspector and Selected Stories
A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich
Crime and Punishment
The Trial
Fathers and Sons
The Idiot
The Bell Jar
Hamlet
The Land of the Firebird
A History of Russia
Julius Caesar
The Oedipus Cycle
The Odyssey
Lord of the Flies
The Canterbury Tales
The Decameron (parts of)
Jane Eyre
Walden (parts of)
Secret Life of Bees
Lovely Bones
The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime
Flatland
Washington Square
The Red Badge of Courage
The Crucible
The Awakening
Their Eyes Were Watching God
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
The Glass Menagerie
To Kill a Mockingbird, (middleschool)
Billy Budd, Sailor
A Farewell to Arms
The Old Man and the Sea
The Great Gatsby
Winesburg Ohio
Cannery Row
The Heart is a Lonely Hunter
A Midsummer Night’s Dream
Macbeth
Henry V
Twelfth Night
Othello
The Armada
The Elizabethan World Picture
The Diary of a Madman, The Government Inspector and Selected Stories
A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich
Crime and Punishment
The Trial
Fathers and Sons
The Idiot
The Bell Jar
Hamlet
The Land of the Firebird
A History of Russia
106hobbitprincess
Good list! You go to a great school to have read all those books. Consider yourself lucky!
107jburlinson
I'm surprised not to see Ethan Frome listed in this thread. This was the book that my son, who I believe had to read it in the 8th or 9th grade, told me had "killed my love of reading." I also remember reading this book in high school and being, in turns, bored blind and appalled. P.S. My son is slowly starting to rebuild his "love of reading" (you'd have to meet my son to understand how funny that phrase is) by studying gun manuals & computer specifications and ploughing through the collected works of Orson Scott Card. I have since come to terms with Edith Wharton and can say that my favorites of hers are The Age of Innocence and The Reef.
108Choreocrat
Hmm... nice thread resurrection. I found it nicely interesting to read. I can't think of many books we read in high school. It's kind of disturbing.
I do remember reading:
Romeo and Juliet x2
Macbeth
King Lear
Haroun and the Sea of Stories
A Wizard of Earthsea
Day of the Triffids
Goodnight, Mister Tom (on which I wrote my first 'essay' and failed dismally - it would have helped to know what was expected from an essay)
...
umm... I don't remember any of the others. How embarrassing. They apparently didn't make a big impact. I remember we did one book a semester (!) in 7-10, so there must be others, because most of them are from 11-12 where we did a few a trimester, depending on the class we chose.
We certainly didn't do anything as cultured as classic Russian novels or French lit before year 11-12, and then I chose not to do the courses on Kafka and Camus, World lit etc. (although I regret it a bit now). What courses did I do? Let's see. Intro to Lit Study, Creative Writing, Fantasy Lit, Shakespeare's Tragedies, History of English, Grammar, and one other one which I've forgotten (I'm impressed I remember those!).
I do remember reading:
Romeo and Juliet x2
Macbeth
King Lear
Haroun and the Sea of Stories
A Wizard of Earthsea
Day of the Triffids
Goodnight, Mister Tom (on which I wrote my first 'essay' and failed dismally - it would have helped to know what was expected from an essay)
...
umm... I don't remember any of the others. How embarrassing. They apparently didn't make a big impact. I remember we did one book a semester (!) in 7-10, so there must be others, because most of them are from 11-12 where we did a few a trimester, depending on the class we chose.
We certainly didn't do anything as cultured as classic Russian novels or French lit before year 11-12, and then I chose not to do the courses on Kafka and Camus, World lit etc. (although I regret it a bit now). What courses did I do? Let's see. Intro to Lit Study, Creative Writing, Fantasy Lit, Shakespeare's Tragedies, History of English, Grammar, and one other one which I've forgotten (I'm impressed I remember those!).
109jillmwo
I read loads of Shakespeare in high school - Hamlet, Romeo & Juliet, Twelfth Night, Merchant of Venice, etc. So to answer the original question, reading Shakespeare in conjunction with a good production on DVD is good.
I was required to read The Ox Bow Incident in high school and it was AWFUL. I also read The Caine Mutiny in the same unit which was not all that interesting to me.
Main Street by Sinclair Lewis
Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte
Wuthering Heights by Emily Bronte
Lost Horizon by James Hilton (a particular favorite of mine, but rather politically incorrect for current tastes.)
Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man by James Joyce
Can't remember many others. My sons had to read
A Tale of Two Cities and Great Expectations by Dickens
Heart of Darkness by Conrad
The House on Mango Street by Sandra Cisneros
Gulliver's Travels by Swift
Night by Elie Wiesel
A real mix.
I was required to read The Ox Bow Incident in high school and it was AWFUL. I also read The Caine Mutiny in the same unit which was not all that interesting to me.
Main Street by Sinclair Lewis
Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte
Wuthering Heights by Emily Bronte
Lost Horizon by James Hilton (a particular favorite of mine, but rather politically incorrect for current tastes.)
Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man by James Joyce
Can't remember many others. My sons had to read
A Tale of Two Cities and Great Expectations by Dickens
Heart of Darkness by Conrad
The House on Mango Street by Sandra Cisneros
Gulliver's Travels by Swift
Night by Elie Wiesel
A real mix.
110xicanti
#108 - wow, you had a lot of different English courses to choose from! We had Grade Ten English, Grade Eleven English, Grade Twelve Comprehensive English and Grade Twelve English Literature. I think there was some other option you could take instead of English Literature, but I can't remember what it was. You could also choose to do either honours or regular studies, but the only difference was that you wrapped up your English requirements in two years with honours instead of the usual three years.
111frithuswith
We really didn't read that many books at school - we seemed to mostly just do individual books in great detail (sometimes to death...)
Ones I remember are The Guardians by John Christopher (touchstones rebelling) which I was deeply unimpressed by; Jane Eyre, Macbeth, Animal Farm, Far From the Madding Crowd, Romeo and Juliet, An Inspector Calls, To Kill a Mockingbird, Roll of Thunder Hear my Cry, Othello (which was sort of an optional extra, but I thought it was great!), Great Expectations, A Streetcar Named Desire and Hamlet. And obviously we did some poetry. I enjoyed people like R.S. Thomas and T.S. Eliot and thought Robert Frost was seriously oversold. I may have mellowed since then though!
Still, it was basically all standard western canon stuff. It's a shame we didn't do more general reading and discussion, especially at A-Level, but there you have it!
Ones I remember are The Guardians by John Christopher (touchstones rebelling) which I was deeply unimpressed by; Jane Eyre, Macbeth, Animal Farm, Far From the Madding Crowd, Romeo and Juliet, An Inspector Calls, To Kill a Mockingbird, Roll of Thunder Hear my Cry, Othello (which was sort of an optional extra, but I thought it was great!), Great Expectations, A Streetcar Named Desire and Hamlet. And obviously we did some poetry. I enjoyed people like R.S. Thomas and T.S. Eliot and thought Robert Frost was seriously oversold. I may have mellowed since then though!
Still, it was basically all standard western canon stuff. It's a shame we didn't do more general reading and discussion, especially at A-Level, but there you have it!
112LittleKnife
I have real trouble remembering what I read at school which is kinda scary since I only left 6 years ago (mind you I didn't do lit at A-Level)
I do remember reading
A Christmas Carol
Silas Marner - intensely dull in my opinion
A Midsummer Night's Dream
Animal Farm
(but there must be at least 5 others that we did in detail just by virtue of number of terms)
For GCSE
Romeo and Juliet
Pride and Prejudice
I'm the King of the Castle
Pygmalion
& a selection of poetry incl.: Wilfred Owen, Sigfried Sassoon, Thomas Hardy, Phillip Larkin, W.H. Auden Christina Rossettii - & plenty of others I don't remember
They were supposed to be improving, with a variety of viewpoints etc, from different eras of writing etc but I'm not sure it succeeded.
ETA - My excuse for forgetting so much is all the subsequent info I have crammed in
I do remember reading
A Christmas Carol
Silas Marner - intensely dull in my opinion
A Midsummer Night's Dream
Animal Farm
(but there must be at least 5 others that we did in detail just by virtue of number of terms)
For GCSE
Romeo and Juliet
Pride and Prejudice
I'm the King of the Castle
Pygmalion
& a selection of poetry incl.: Wilfred Owen, Sigfried Sassoon, Thomas Hardy, Phillip Larkin, W.H. Auden Christina Rossettii - & plenty of others I don't remember
They were supposed to be improving, with a variety of viewpoints etc, from different eras of writing etc but I'm not sure it succeeded.
ETA - My excuse for forgetting so much is all the subsequent info I have crammed in
113Choreocrat
110 - ACT senior high school system. We chose a course every trimester (or semester depending on school) and make up a major of them. If you want you can just Shakespeare and Kafka or just creative writing, fantasy and sf. The range isn't as high as you get at universities, but it's definitely better than no choice.
114zweiundzwei
Thanks to my "school" tag, here's a pretty complete list of what I've read since about year 8:
Der Schimmelreiter - I don't think I ever finished that, it was painfully boring. And where was the demon horse?
The Hobbit - The first-ever real English book read in my English class, after the pseudo-book that had 30 pages and ended before anything happened.
Wilhelm Tell - I have no memory of this.
Das Parfum - my class rebelled after reading several books we considered terrible/boring/stupid and me and a friend suggested reading The perfume. My teacher was so fed up with us that she agreed even though she usually only read that book in 12th grade. I think she actually wrote a letter to our parents concerning that; I guess she didn't feel all that comfortable making a book about murder and orgies and cannibalism required reading for a bunch of 14 years old (were we 14?) in a Catholic school. In any case, that among the best school reads ever. I also did a short presentation on Patrick Süskind, so I read all his other books, too.
Das Leben des Galileo Galilei
Emilia Galotti - Another book I don't remember at all.
Der Vorleser - Teeeedious. I remember these things: the obligatory suicide at the end, the boy's general unhappiness with his life, guilt, the same sex scenes that kept repeating.
About a boy
An inspector calls
The tortilla curtain - another book where the situation just gets worse, and worse, and then some more.
Death of a salesman - and then the protagonist suffers some more
Der Sandmann - and goes crazy. (I do like this one)
Effi Briest - and dies.
Lord of the flies - This was the time when all the terrible endings really got on my nerves, and also someone should have told the author that you can't make fire with glasses for short-sightedness.
Cal
Don Karlos - We saw that play, while reading. It was really well-made except it hurt in the eyes, and I was really thirsty through the first half. The second half, I regretted not going to the toilet. This play went on and on and on.
Woyzeck
Macbeth - my book at more annotations and paraphrasing and bad translations than actual text. This annoyed me. And the translation of "whore" was something including sunshine, which made me very suspicious of the annotations in general.
Faust I. Faust is good.
and parts from Latin works, and some theological works, but that's because I'm in the geek Religion class ;)
I think soon we'll read Die Verwandlung and Brave New World and then some more, but I forgot which.
Der Schimmelreiter - I don't think I ever finished that, it was painfully boring. And where was the demon horse?
The Hobbit - The first-ever real English book read in my English class, after the pseudo-book that had 30 pages and ended before anything happened.
Wilhelm Tell - I have no memory of this.
Das Parfum - my class rebelled after reading several books we considered terrible/boring/stupid and me and a friend suggested reading The perfume. My teacher was so fed up with us that she agreed even though she usually only read that book in 12th grade. I think she actually wrote a letter to our parents concerning that; I guess she didn't feel all that comfortable making a book about murder and orgies and cannibalism required reading for a bunch of 14 years old (were we 14?) in a Catholic school. In any case, that among the best school reads ever. I also did a short presentation on Patrick Süskind, so I read all his other books, too.
Das Leben des Galileo Galilei
Emilia Galotti - Another book I don't remember at all.
Der Vorleser - Teeeedious. I remember these things: the obligatory suicide at the end, the boy's general unhappiness with his life, guilt, the same sex scenes that kept repeating.
About a boy
An inspector calls
The tortilla curtain - another book where the situation just gets worse, and worse, and then some more.
Death of a salesman - and then the protagonist suffers some more
Der Sandmann - and goes crazy. (I do like this one)
Effi Briest - and dies.
Lord of the flies - This was the time when all the terrible endings really got on my nerves, and also someone should have told the author that you can't make fire with glasses for short-sightedness.
Cal
Don Karlos - We saw that play, while reading. It was really well-made except it hurt in the eyes, and I was really thirsty through the first half. The second half, I regretted not going to the toilet. This play went on and on and on.
Woyzeck
Macbeth - my book at more annotations and paraphrasing and bad translations than actual text. This annoyed me. And the translation of "whore" was something including sunshine, which made me very suspicious of the annotations in general.
Faust I. Faust is good.
and parts from Latin works, and some theological works, but that's because I'm in the geek Religion class ;)
I think soon we'll read Die Verwandlung and Brave New World and then some more, but I forgot which.
115littlebookworm
I hadn't seen this thread before, but I've read many, many of the books on here between high school and college. I read a lot of books in high school, since I was on the Honors/AP track, and a lot of classics, although I had American instead of British lit one year due to this.
My favorite year was senior year - we read Jane Eyre (one of my favorite books ever), Pride and Prejudice, The Poisonwood Bible, The Things We Carried, Stones from the River (which I didn't like), Macbeth and Hamlet, and I wrote one paper on The Age of Innocence (my other favorite book ever) and one on Uncle Vanya by Chekhov.
Other years we read A Tale of Two Cities, Les Miserables, Silas Marner, Great Expectations, The Catcher in the Rye, Heart of Darkness (which I have read three times and still can't stand), The Grapes of Wrath, The Scarlet Letter, Jude the Obscure, and many others that I can't remember. Looking at this list, I seem to have been fortunate in that I read a lot of great books, but there isn't a lot of diversity in there. Either that, or my love for English literature means I've forgotten everything else because this is what I've kept.
#107 - I loved Ethan Frome. It got me inspired to read more Edith Wharton. Odd. =)
My favorite year was senior year - we read Jane Eyre (one of my favorite books ever), Pride and Prejudice, The Poisonwood Bible, The Things We Carried, Stones from the River (which I didn't like), Macbeth and Hamlet, and I wrote one paper on The Age of Innocence (my other favorite book ever) and one on Uncle Vanya by Chekhov.
Other years we read A Tale of Two Cities, Les Miserables, Silas Marner, Great Expectations, The Catcher in the Rye, Heart of Darkness (which I have read three times and still can't stand), The Grapes of Wrath, The Scarlet Letter, Jude the Obscure, and many others that I can't remember. Looking at this list, I seem to have been fortunate in that I read a lot of great books, but there isn't a lot of diversity in there. Either that, or my love for English literature means I've forgotten everything else because this is what I've kept.
#107 - I loved Ethan Frome. It got me inspired to read more Edith Wharton. Odd. =)
116jillmwo
Now I actually got something out of Heart of Darkness but I have never read anything by Thomas Hardy -- not Tess of the D'Urbervilles, not Jude the Obscure, zip. He just drags everything out to such excrutiating length (IMHO to no discernible value).
117littlebookworm
Oh, I get a lot out of Heart of Darkness. There's a lot of value in the book, I just don't enjoy the experience of reading it. On the other hand, I have developed a great love for Thomas Hardy. I loved Far from the Madding Crowd especially and have plans to read through the rest of his works soon.
118Jakeofalltrades
My class had to read Brave New World and we had to watch Blade Runner: Director's Cut to contrast it with in language forms and features... ???
English Advanced in Australia has turned into an indoctrination process that does not engage with the actual themes of a book, but rather how a book is constructed.
As for censorship, there hasn't been a book banned here since Portnoy's Complaint. In Australia we have a different system of what is suitable for children to borrow from school libraries: there is an age restriction on Tom Clancy in my school library, for example, because of the swearing and themes. Not exactly the worst crime of censorship, but surely a 14 year old can handle Clancy if he or she talks about it with their parents?
We laugh at America's censorship, The Satanic Verses is widely available at Dymocks if you look hard enough.
As for the stuff I write? It will definitely be banned in Alabama fo' sho', because my latest work in progress, "Family Matters", which is a Fantasy book set in the Modern Era, contains pretty graphic war violence and decries war through its themes, it presents homosexual relationships in a positive light, there's a Normal man/Anime girl romantic relationship that gets steamy, the society in the book apart from Professor Malmsteen the Swedish Ex-Pat Ex-Human thinks that to have one God run more that one species is mindboggling, as Elves and Changelings etc. have many Gods, Goddesses and Demigods, one character says that Christianity denies the existence of a non-homo sapiens soul...
That has Banned in Alabama written all over it!
English Advanced in Australia has turned into an indoctrination process that does not engage with the actual themes of a book, but rather how a book is constructed.
As for censorship, there hasn't been a book banned here since Portnoy's Complaint. In Australia we have a different system of what is suitable for children to borrow from school libraries: there is an age restriction on Tom Clancy in my school library, for example, because of the swearing and themes. Not exactly the worst crime of censorship, but surely a 14 year old can handle Clancy if he or she talks about it with their parents?
We laugh at America's censorship, The Satanic Verses is widely available at Dymocks if you look hard enough.
As for the stuff I write? It will definitely be banned in Alabama fo' sho', because my latest work in progress, "Family Matters", which is a Fantasy book set in the Modern Era, contains pretty graphic war violence and decries war through its themes, it presents homosexual relationships in a positive light, there's a Normal man/Anime girl romantic relationship that gets steamy, the society in the book apart from Professor Malmsteen the Swedish Ex-Pat Ex-Human thinks that to have one God run more that one species is mindboggling, as Elves and Changelings etc. have many Gods, Goddesses and Demigods, one character says that Christianity denies the existence of a non-homo sapiens soul...
That has Banned in Alabama written all over it!
119pollysmith
The only thing I remember being required to read was Evangiline. very long boring and sad
120foggidawn
I've enjoyed reading through this thread. As for what I read in high school, I was home-schooled, and basically set my own curriculum for English Lit. I know Mom suggested some things, but I was fairly ambitious (read: "priggish") and went through a good many classics -- though I missed out on some of the things most high-schoolers seem to get, and had to go back later and pick them up. Here's what I remember reading in high school:
Jane Austen -- all of hers
Bronte sisters -- Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights
Chaucer -- Canterbury Tales
Dickens -- Great Expectations, Oliver Twist, Hard Times, David Copperfield, A Christmas Carol
Dumas -- The Three Musketeers
George Eliot -- Silas Marner
Robert Frost -- a pretty good bit of his poetry
Thomas Hardy -- Tess of the D'Urbervilles
Nathaniel Hawthorne -- The Scarlet Letter, The House of the Seven Gables, short stories
O. Henry -- short stories
Baroness Orczy -- The Scarlet Pimpernel
Edmond Rostand -- Cyrano de Bergerac
Sir Walter Scott -- Ivanhoe
Shakespeare -- A Midsummer Night's Dream, Othello, The Merchant of Venice, Hamlet, Macbeth, The Tempest, Two Gentlemen of Verona, Romeo and Juliet
Mark Twain -- The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, Huckleberry Finn
Thornton Wilder -- Our Town
There may have been more. I also read most of Agatha Christie, and a whole lot of trash. ;-)
(Edited in hopes that some of those touchstones will show up)
Jane Austen -- all of hers
Bronte sisters -- Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights
Chaucer -- Canterbury Tales
Dickens -- Great Expectations, Oliver Twist, Hard Times, David Copperfield, A Christmas Carol
Dumas -- The Three Musketeers
George Eliot -- Silas Marner
Robert Frost -- a pretty good bit of his poetry
Thomas Hardy -- Tess of the D'Urbervilles
Nathaniel Hawthorne -- The Scarlet Letter, The House of the Seven Gables, short stories
O. Henry -- short stories
Baroness Orczy -- The Scarlet Pimpernel
Edmond Rostand -- Cyrano de Bergerac
Sir Walter Scott -- Ivanhoe
Shakespeare -- A Midsummer Night's Dream, Othello, The Merchant of Venice, Hamlet, Macbeth, The Tempest, Two Gentlemen of Verona, Romeo and Juliet
Mark Twain -- The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, Huckleberry Finn
Thornton Wilder -- Our Town
There may have been more. I also read most of Agatha Christie, and a whole lot of trash. ;-)
(Edited in hopes that some of those touchstones will show up)
121Choreocrat
I'm beginning to think my high school curriculum was somewhat dodgy, because we didn't read any of these classics that are coming up. I think they were trying to be trendy for us and giving us current ya books to encourage us to read (didn't need to for me).
122littlebookworm
I had generally more YA books in middle school, I think that was when they were encouraging us to read more. In high school, once the honors track was split from the regular track, it changed to all those classics. The regular track continued to choose from contemporary YA/adult fiction for summer reading and so on as the years went by. They also only had to read 2 books each summer and spent longer on the books in class than we did. So my experience is not really typical.
123aviddiva
High School was a long time ago, but I remember having to read To Kill a Mockingbird, Things Fall Apart, The Pearl,and pieces of The Iliad and The Odyssey, plus a lot of short fiction like The Rocking Horse Winner. I actually remember the Jr high list better : The Red Badge of Courage, The Red pony, Flowers for Algernon, Twelve Angry men,and A Raisin in the Sun.

