Take It or Leave It Challenge - October 2012 - Page 1

For those new to this challenge: More info and monthly index can be found in post #1 of this thread or this TIOLI FAQS wiki.

Simple directions for posting to the wiki can be found at the bottom of each month's wiki page.


...logo by cyderry

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After the grand fiasco that was the “literature map” challenge of earlier this year, I’m going to try another random book challenge. Uh oh! Sooooooooo..........

Your challenge for October is to read a book found through LT’s Random Tag Generator.

What you do is:
1 Click on the link above. That will bring you to a random tag under which you will see many, many books listed. Those on your TBR list will have green check marks in front of the book titles.
2. Choose any book on that list.
3. Note the tag as you will need it for your wiki listing, and you will never be able to find that tag again through the random tag generator!

You may click on the random tag generator as often as you’d like until you find a book you want to read.

You may match a book at any time without clicking on the random tag generator.

List your book as follows.
Eats, Shoots & Leaves (linguistics) – Lynne Truss- lyzard
The Monk (Oxford’s World’s Classics) – M.G. Lewis – SqueakyChu
The Picture of Dorian Gray (late 19th century) – Oscar Wilde - pbadeer

Have fun!

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Other Fun Stuff (not part of the TIOLI challenge):

1. The October 2012 TIOLI Meter - Optional page on which you may track your TIOLI reading. FYI: This is not meant to be competitive - only fun!
2. Morphidae's List of Previous TIOLI Challenges - You may use this reference (Do a control-F scan) to avoid repeating a previous challenge. If your idea is similar to a previous challenge, just make it unique by adding a new "twist" to it. (Updated 10/07/12)

Wiki index:

Challenges #1-6
1. Read a book found through LT’s Random Tag Generator - msg #1
2. Read an ER book that you won more than a year ago - msg #6
3. Read a book first released for publication over 100 yrs ago or in 2012 - msg #8
4. Read a book about China and neighbouring countries - msg #4 - thread
5. Read a book about Childbirth - msg #23
6. Read a book with a title word that starts with "un"- msg #46

Challenges #7-12
7. Read a book with a title starting with these letters (in rolling order): J*A*S*P*E*R - msg #53 - Picture of Jasper
8. Read a book by a dead author - msg #56
9. Read a book about survival, or with a word which indicates survival in its title - msg #75
10. Read a book published under different titles in different territories - msg #79
11. Read a book with a word in the title or author associated with a cemetery - msg #78
12. Read a book where more than half the vowels in the title are I's - msg #92

Challenges #13-18
13. Read a book about architecture - msg #99
14. Read a book whose title includes both letters and actual numbers - msg #100
15. Read a book from ALA's Top 100 Banned/Challenged Books 2000-2009 - msg #101
16. Read a book that has two or more 4's in it's ISBN - msg #122
17. Read a contemporary book set in the 1970s - msg #130
18. Read a book by a German author - msg #135

Challenges #19-24
19. Read a Diary or Journal or a Compilation of Selections from Several Diaries - msg #149
20. Read a book with one or more politicians as major character(s)/figure(s) - msg #153
21. SHORT WORKS CHALLENGE: Read a short story or work (essay or novella) alphabetized by the first vowel in the title (AEIOU--Y can be added or skipped after the U in each round. Disregard "A" and "The" starting the title. - msg #168
22. Read a book about reading, or libraries or the star sign Libra - msg #179

No new challenges accepted after midnight on October 4th. Save your new challenges for November. Thanks!

An aside to lyzard...

No, I did not *force* the random tag generator to generate The Monk, the book on which you're tutoring me starting today. The random tag generator happily provided that book of its own accord. Really!! :)

I'm getting the feeling that this month's challenge will be much more successful than that of the literature map. :D

Ooh, that was extra sneaky, posting the October challenge a few days ahead of usual!

My challenge will be to Read a book about China and neighbouring countries, which includes Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau, Tibet, Mongolia, for the 4th quarter Reading Globally challenge. The thread for the group can be found here:

http://www.librarything.com/topic/142067

Heh!

It's so nice and quiet here...

I was completely not expecting this!

Fortunately I had my challenge already planned, though: Read an ER book that you won more than a year ago. I got through one of these last month, but I'm afraid to say that there are more. And I don't think I'm the only one....

Using the random tag generator, I came up with "Cortes". That seems promising, though I'm not sure I can really find and read such a specific book in a one-month time period.

My bookshelves keep getting filled up and some books just seem to be pushed to the back, but there are books that I really want to get read as soon as I can, so my challenge is to get those new, new books or old, old books read.
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#3 OLD or NEW Challenge - Read a book first released for publication over 100 yrs ago or in 2012.
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> 6

I was completely not expecting this!

LOL! That's my aim...to surprise and delight!

> 6

Ugh! Zoe! You really are making me read those ER books I've postponed way too long.

By the way, I thought that that book in Arabic was too bad to give my neighbor. I like him too much. I'm going to Bookcross that bok instead.

> 7

Zoe, you can use the random tag generator as many times as you'd like to come up with a book you *want* to read. Each time you click on the random tag generator, you'll get a new random tag. Some of them are wa-a-a-a-ay better than others. You'll see! :)

> 11 Yes I just clicked it six times and haven't come up with anything on my TBR pile ... yet!

> 4

My challenge will be to Read a book about China and neighbouring countries, which includes Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau, Tibet, Mongolia, for the 4th quarter Reading Globally challenge. The thread for the group can be found here...

There's no problem mixing the TIOLI reads into the Reading Globally thread. I really do like that.

>11 SqueakyChu: Just because you said that, I was bound and determined to use the first tag I got... and then it was D&D 3.0. Um...yeah, that's not happening... ;)

Madeline, I don't know how I got so lucky but my random tag was MYSTERY!

I thought maybe that would be cheating, so i clicked again and got Non-Fiction.
Does the generator go and look at your tags or everyone's?

> 15

I don't know how I got so lucky but my random tag was MYSTERY!

Cool!

P.S. I'm glad I didn't get that one. :)

> 14

and then it was D&D 3.0.

Hahaha!

For challenge 1 it was Lucky 13! - Found one:)

> 15

Does the generator go and look at your tags or everyone's?

Not at all. It's called a random tag generator because it's random (or so I believe).

I love it because it's an obscure LibraryThing feature that has (to me, anyway) absolutely no use! :)

Darryl, it just figures that you would end up with "ethnic literature" for my challenge! :)

Zoe...

My ER book is older than your ER book! :P

> 18

Found one

Hooray!

Yahoo, just on my way to the dog park but I thought I give it a check, and here we are.

Challenge #5: Read a book about Childbirth (one of my favorite topics).

My planned reads are:
The Baby Thief by L.J. Sellers - Nook
Birth: The Surprising History of How We Are Born by Tina Cassidy
The Birth House by Ami Mckay
Birthmarked by Caragh M. O'Brien - Nook
Call the midwife : a memoir of birth, joy, and hard times - Jennifer Worth
Creating humans: ethical questions where reproduction and science collide - Alexander McCall Smith - Audiobook
Following Foo by B D Wong
The Midwife's Apprentice -Karen Cushman - Audiobook
My Name Is Mary Sutter by Robin Oliveira - Book Club
The Wet Nurse's Tale by Erica Eisdorfer

>6 _Zoe_: Good one, Zoe. I'll read The Lost and Forgotten Languages of Shanghai, which also fits the upcoming Reading Globally challenge.

>8 cyderry: I'm in with NW, Zadie's Smith latest novel.

>13 SqueakyChu: Thanks, Madeline. I've already encouraged at least two 75ers to join the Reading Globally group in the past day or two for this challenge, which runs from October 1 until December 31, and hopefully others will participate as well.

>20 SqueakyChu: I had to click the Random Tag generator link at least 20 times before "ethnic literature" came up!

Oh, Madeline some of these are too funny...
I have a couple other books so I thought I'd try again, I got...

Jewish cookbooks (must be yours)
D&D 3.0 (must be popular)
beavers
breastfeeding
Bilbo Baggins
manifesto

I'm beginning to believe that I hit the jackpot and I'll wait for other challenges for my other books. Whew...did I dodge some bullets!

> 20

I had to click the Random Tag generator link at least 20 times before "ethnic literature" came up!

LOL!!

> 25

some of these are too funny...

Cheli, I can't say that I'd like to read a Jewish cookbook for a challenge...although I'd adore cooking from a new one.

The beaver one sounds like fun, though!

ETA: The breastfeeding one would go well with Joyce's challenge. :)

I had to click through a few random tags before I got one I liked: clergy fiction, vests, Ronald Reagan (lordamercy!), but I finally got Scotland. I've had Outlander sitting on my book shelf forever, I guess now's the time, though I don't know how many books I'll get to besides this chunkster.

> 28

Ronald Reagan (lordamercy!)

I'm very grateful that I didn't get that tag!

vests?!!!!! :D

I'm making a special guest appearance in TIOLI this month, at Zoe's request, so that she can get points for both of us reading our ER book, The Human Genome: Book of Essential Knowledge.

>28 Citizenjoyce: LOL I dunno, I really think you should read a book tagged "vests". Sounds riveting.

Your challenge has been Tweeted Madeline:) Guess someone is following this thread:)

LibraryThing.com‏@LibraryThing

Love it. October challenge on LT: read a book found through the random tag generator! http://www.librarything.com/topic/142687

Amazingly there are quite a few books tagged vests. So many books, so little time, I think I have to leave this fascinating topic to others.

I'm also glad we don't have to use the first tag we get. I got the very inspirational "Volume 4" on my first try. My second try came up with "Ezra". The result of my 3rd try was "jeunesse" and among the first few titles on the list is a library book I've got checked out but probably won't finish before the end of September.

> 30

Hi, Nora!

*waves*

I really think you should read a book tagged "vests". Sounds riveting.

Y'know...you and Cheli can get us a TIOLI point if you both read a "vest" book together! :)

> 31

Your challenge has been Tweeted

That was probably Jeremy. I told him about it because I thought he'd get a kick out of the use I found for LT's random tag generator. I've known of no other use for it. Ever.

Cheli, I'm planning to listen to an audio compilation of Poe's detective stories next month. The audio version was released in 2011, but the stories themselves have been around since Poe's day (early Victorian). Is it acceptable to list this in your challenge?

I looked at the books with "vest" tag - there's one tagged vest virginia
Do you think that's a vest for Virginia? LOL

> 32

Amazingly there are quite a few books tagged vests. So many books, so little time, I think I have to leave this fascinating topic to others.

Haha!

>37 cyderry: or the German area of West Virginia?

> 33

I'm also glad we don't have to use the first tag we get.

That actually was my idea...until I tried it out.

"Volume 4" is a hilarious result. First you'd have to read Volumes 1, 2, and 3. That is, if you wanted Volume 4 to make any sense at all. :)

> 37

Vest Virginia?! ROFL!!

Well, if it's listed *already*, you can use it! Not me, though. :)

> 39

or the German area of West Virginia?

For sure!!

Madeline, are we only having 6 challenges this month, or were you laughing so hard you didn't make the change?

> 43

are we only having 6 challenges this month, or were you laughing so hard you didn't make the change?

The latter. :)

Zoe, glad to see I'm not the only one with old ER books to review. I just finished one last night but it wasn't quite THAT old. I do have one almost a year old (from last November, I think) but nothing that meets your rules.

Challenge #6: The UN challenge: Read a book with a title word that begins with "un"

This should be self explanatory. A title word, not necessarily the first word, must start with "un." No embedded un's, however.

So Unbroken is fine. A book called Life and Death in Unreal Times would also be fine. However, a book called Hot Dog Buns: A History would not fit the challenge.

I love the random tag challenge - and I got Russian history for my first pick. I am very good at buying Russian history books, much less good at reading them so this is great!!

This is downright spooky! On my first try with the generator, the tag was Vlad the Impaler. WOuldn't you know I have Dracula lined up for Halloween reads!

>48 Carmenere:

Dracula is soooooo good! I encourage others to share this read with you, Lynda.

I have Dracula in Challenge #3.

I just tried it and got "Who am I?," and most of them appear to be children's books or yoga manuals. Then I got "DVD documentary" which was all DVDs and not really much in the way of actual books. This may take some time.

I haven't picked a book yet for challenge #1, but I'm having fun with the Random Tag Generator

Here are the tags it's pulled up so far:
Stanislaw Lem
withchunts
Shadowrun
Abigail Adams
Middle Ages-Fiction
Guatemala
intermediate
saving money
July 2007
Romarriket
free time

Challenge #7: In Praise of the Jasper-the-Cat

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In memory of my late & much lamented feline, here's a rolling challenge for you. Read a book that starts with one of the letters of Jasper's name. I've started off with three, to show how it's done. For this challenge, "A" and "An" will be considered as books starting with "A".

Basic guidelines: maximum of three successive entries; NO skipped letters permitted (for obvious reasons!)

I'd prefer that you not use titles that begin with "the", "a", "an" (except in the case of the letter A), although if it's going to cause hardship, I'm not going to turn into a TIOLI enforcer over this.

Please put the letter, in bold, before the book's title -- see the wiki.

Books about cats get bonus points -- at least, from me!

#53 Suz, that's a nice tribute. I'm happy to do the first "P" for Jasper.

#52 I am having a great time with the random tag generator. Not finding much to read but am fascinated by some of the tags.

> 53

Rest in peace, handsome Jasper.

Suz, I think Jasper deserves to have his picture on this thread. Whatcha think?

I wanted to do something Halloweenish for October so...

Challenge #8: Read a book by a dead author

The author can't be mostly dead. The author must be well and truly dead.

Madeline, I can e-mail it to you. Even the Apple store "geniuses" haven't been able to figure out why I can post pics in LT posts...

I would also love to see a picture of Jasper.

Oh, I'm glad we can use the tag generator multiple times! This will be fun.

My ER book is older than your ER book! :P

Okay, I'm going to have to pull out my book from September 2009! LOL.

...except that I left that one in New York. Oh well.

Madeline, it's in your FB inbox...

> 60

I'll go get it.

> 59

Okay, I'm going to have to pull out my book from September 2009! LOL.

...except that I left that one in New York. Oh well.

:)

Oh, I'm glad we can use the tag generator multiple times! This will be fun.

If you get some funny tags, tell us what they are.

I have thus far gotten "rainbows," "Sherman," and "psychoanalysis." I'll keep trying.

I got Scottish Gaelic on three occasions -- not back to back. They seem to think I'm a Scot who speaks Gaelic and is a Mormon. (LDS, Mormon, Theology, Yahweh, Utah all on my "random" selections) with very young children ("playground", "lullaby", "level E", "grade 4-8"). I also was hit with non-Euclidean geometry, horror movies and dog breeds.

Sigh, my first unreviewed ER book was from the October 2011, so not "over a year ago".

Chatterbox's Jasper

Awwwwwwwwwwww....I love Jasper!

I also got "Level E"- how weird. I got "May 2011" twice.

I keep getting insects...

> 68

I'd go for the insect books. How interesting! :)

That was Jasper in his prime... When he died two weeks ago, he was about half that size, but just as beautiful, with long fur & tufts on his ears, a VERY thick tail and big glamorous white whiskers...

I seem to have a technical/literary bent - I've had iphone and ipad; Swedish poetry and Dutch literature! Must keep looking...

> 70

He was a beauty, Suz.

Jasper looks both beautiful and dignified.

I got the tag "spa" but apparently it is either picking up the language code or someone used it as an abbreviation for Spanish because most suggestions are in that language. I think I'll move on to another tag.

We survived a brutal summer in our neck of the woods. The wildfires did not come quite as close to our house this summer, but still required evacuation. We were luckier than many. In our county alone, 32,000 acres were burned, and over 200 homes lost. We are still in severe drought, but we've made it through the heat! For this challenge, read a book about surviving something more major than just "summer". Fiction and Non-fiction both allowed, any genre.

Challenge #9: Read a book about survival, or with a word which indicates survival in its title.

Examples:
Far North by Will Hobbs
The Worst Hard Time: The Untold Story of Those Who Survived the Great American Dust Bowl by Timothy Egan

Jasper didn't always manage the dignified bit... check out the pic on my profile page. "I have NO idea how I ended up upside down, with my rear paws crossed -- I'm sure there's a completely logical explanation and I'll let you know when I come up with it."....

> 76

Aww! That's such a cute picture.

Carrie (cbl_tn) and I are offering a joint challenge.

#11 - Read a book with a word in the title or author associated with a cemetery.

We will be jointly reading Grave Consequences by Dana Cameron that both of us want to read. It uses "grave."
I'll be reading A Duty to the Dead by Charles Todd (because there are dead persons in cemeteries).

Other words might be tomb, tombstone, mound, mausoleum, etc. You get the idea!

Another completely self-serving challenge:

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Challenge #10: Read a book that was published under different titles in different territories

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A few rules:

1. List the alternative title / territory on the wiki.
2. Translated titles are only allowed if the words in the title are actually different - a book called Jasper Le Chat in Canada and Jasper The Cat in the US is out; a book called Jasper Le Bon Chat in Canada and Jasper The Greatest Cat Ever in the US is in.
3. Books that vary in their subtitles are allowed; list the two variant titles in full.

For example, I will be reading John Rhode's British novel, The Davidson Case, which was published in the US as Murder At Bratton Grange.

>>#3

Oh, I believe you! :)

So what was the tag?

Regarding the 'random tag' I've had:

East Prussia
Holy Roman Empire
autobiography
reptiles
technological
geometry
celtic folklore

but have gone with 'July 2008' as I know where that particular Diana Wynne Jones book is. I had to laugh that someone has tagged Black Beauty as autobiographical.

> 79

The tag was "Oxford’s World’s Classics" so now I have The Monk listed in my own challenge! :)

My first tag was patents - I don't think I've anything under that tag. The second was tourist guidebooks, and I don't really fancy reading a 10 year old guidebook to somewhere I might not get back to for another 10 years. (Yes, I'm a hoarder, but the 1990 Let's Go Europe has a certain historical flavour which makes me reluctant to let go of it!)

I could really do with the "breastfeeding" tag but I also have a copy of the Tina Cassidy book and a lot of midwife memoirs.

Gag! My very first random tag was Twilight Saga. (I personally think that Tim's done some evil halloween programming to make THAT happen!) It was almost enough to put me off the challenge. But then it got better with tags for Sock Knitting, Christmas Crafts, Lasers, and Street Art. My winning tag will be Armand Gamache, Read in 2011, or Chemistry.

Since I was not at my computer to post Dracula earlier, I'll read it with cyderry in Challenge #3 and have fun with the Generator once again.

/what a sweet way to memoralize Jasper. I'm so sorry he passed but you were so good to him. I'm ready to add a book when S rolls around again. Jasper, such a handsome rascal.

Lynda, since I have an "A" that I am already three chapters into, "S" is now available...

After a lot of tags which don't appeal at all, "biographies" came up - actually a lot of books tagged "biographies" are memoir. I'm considering one book from the tagged list that I've been considering for a while and two quite new acquisitions:

Jeannette Walls, The Glass Castle
Jenny Uglow, The Lunar Men
Carolyn Cassady, Off the Road

I'm making a note here because I'm not deciding yet, but let me know if anyone else fancies a shared read on any of these.

Other tags

800s
State of Israel
WWII History - Stalingrad, Resistance - Agnes
501 Must Read Books

Read January 2011

Delphine de Vigan, No and Me
Michael Morpurgo, War Horse

Series of Unfortunate Events - The Bad Beginning

American frontier - Sarah, Plain and Tall

Read 1977

Miscellaneous Non-Fiction

Adventures

River at Green Knowe
Penderwicks on Gardam Street

Thames
Darkmans
London Orbital
Wide Open
Offshore
Ordinary Thunderstorms
Rivers of London

Crowds - The Report

Coney Island

social commentary

Norwegian author

Australia fiction

brothels - The Floating Brothel

women's movement

parent-child relations

finished in 2011

I'll have to come back to catch up, but I just want to say for now:

Madeline, your challenge kept me on the computer an extra hour after I decided to call it a night, because I'm OBSESSED with the random tag generator now. I could keep at it all day!

And Suzanne: I'm so sorry about Jasper's passing, and sorry I'm so behind on your thread that I find out about it here. My condolences. I'll try to participate in your challenge to keep his memory alive.

Thanks for the heads up, Suzanne. Now P is up for anyone interested.

I've fit all 16(!) books I'm planning to read next month into TIOLI challenges:

Challenge #1: Read a book found through LT’s Random Tag Generator
The Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie
The Temple of the Golden Pavilion by Yukio Mishima

Challenge #2: Read an ER book that you won more than a year ago
The Lost and Forgotten Languages of Shanghai by Ruiyan Xu

Challenge #3: OLD or NEW Challenge
Communion Town by Sam Thompson
NW by Zadie Smith
Skios by Michael Frayn
The Teleportation Accident by Ned Beauman

Challenge #4: Read a book set in China or a neighbouring country
Beijing Coma by Ma Jian
Life and Death Are Wearing Me Out by Mo Yan
The Opium War: Drugs, Dreams and the Making of China by Julia Lovell

Challenge #6: Read a book with a title word that starts with "un"
The Unlikely Pilgrimage of Harold Fry by Rachel Joyce

Challenge #8: Read a book by a dead author
Confessions of a Mask by Yukio Mishima
Foreign Studies by Shusaku Endo
The Vivisector by Patrick White
When I Whistle by Shusaku Endo

Challenge #10: Read a book published under different titles in different territories
To the End of the Land by David Grossman

It's possible that I may not get to all of the books under challenge #3, but I should be able to read the other listed books by the end of next month.

Hmm. I'm struggling with the tag generator - it keeps offering me non-fiction, but not the non-fiction of my current non-fiction fixation.

Although I was briefly tempted by The Truth About Poop, tagged "informative".

I might not have phrased this in the best way but my challenge is

***************************************************************

Challenge #12: Read a book where more than half the vowels in the title are I's

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There can NOT be only I's in the title there must be at least 1 other vowel

For example

Hunting Midnight by Richard Zimler (3 of 4)
Initiate's Trial by Janny Wurts (4 of 7)

I struck lucky with my first random tag: 'facebook'. Among many technical sounding books about facebook, I spotted 1984 which I've never got round to reading and have on my pile waiting.

I then had a few more goes and didn't come up with anything very funny or interesting, but facebook came up again on the fourth try!

Working out why someone has tagged certain books with that particular tag is sometimes a challenge in itself...

And I've found a book about a cat - Jennie - to fit in the Jasper challenge!

Darryl, for Challenge 4, is the list of some neighbouring countries a list of all those included in the challenge? I'm looking at a map which shows that China also neighbours Vietnam, Korea, India, Bangladesh, Kazakhstan and Kzyrgystan. I actually have quite a few books set in China that I'd like to read, and not many set in the others apart from India (which probably deserves another challenge another time) so this is probably a very theoretical question, and I think limiting the challenge to some neighbours is probably quite sensible, but just wondering....

>94 elkiedee: Good question, Luci. My challenge coincides with the Reading Globally fourth quarter challenge, which is limited to books about China and its closest neighboring countries, namely Mongolia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macao, and Tibet. Authors who are not originally from these countries but have written a book about one of them do count; so, The Good Earth by Pearl Buck and The Opium War: Drugs, Dreams and the Making of China by Julia Lovell would fit. Also, books by authors who were born or descended from these countries but live elsewhere also count. However, for the spirit of the challenge I personally am only counting books by these authors that are based in these countries. For example, regarding the Anglo-Chinese writer Timothy Mo, who was born in Hong Kong but has lived in England for most of his life, his novel the The Monkey King, which is set in HK, counts, but IMO The Redundancy of Courage, which takes place in a fictional version of East Timor, does not. However, I won't be overly picky about my TIOLI challenge, although the neighboring countries you mentioned wouldn't fit in the Reading Globally challenge.

ETA: BTW, wandering_star, who also participates in TIOLI, is one of the co-hosts of this upcoming Reading Globally challenge. She and steven03tx created a superb wiki for this challenge, which can be found here:

http://www.librarything.com/wiki/index.php/Reading_Globally:_Asia_II

> 88

your challenge kept me on the computer an extra hour after I decided to call it a night, because I'm OBSESSED with the random tag generator now

If you find any other use for the random tag generator, Ilana, be sure to let Jeremy know. I'm sure he'd be interested. :)

> 91

Although I was briefly tempted by The Truth About Poop, tagged "informative".

Hey! Don't knock it. That book has a 4.11 star rating. :P

> 95

BTW, wandering_star, who also participates in TIOLI, is one of the co-hosts of this upcoming Reading Globally challenge. She and steven03tx created a superb wiki

What an excellent resource!

CHALLENGE #13 - Read a book about Architecture

This can be expanded to included books on building (in general), biographies on architects, etc. My idea was to make this a nonfiction challenge only, but I think something like The Fountainhead would fit into this as well, so it's open for Fiction Titles as well

**************
CHALLENGE #14 - Read a book whose title includes both letters and actual numbers. Subtitles can count. Spelled out numbers do not count, there must be at least one actual number. Roman numerals do not count since they're made up of letters.
**************

Examples:
1Q84 - Haruki Murakami
Catch-22 - Joseph Heller
1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus by Charles C. Mann
E=mc² by David Bodanis

Not acceptable:
One Thousand White Women - Jim Fergus
Three Junes - Julia Glass
One by One in the Darkness - Deirdre Madden
1776 - David McCullough
The Wives of Henry VIII - Antonia Fraser
Slaughterhouse-Five - Kurt Vonnegut

My challenge is in honor of Banned Books Week, which starts September 30:

Read a book on ALA's Top 100 Banned/Challenged books 2000-2009.

I don't know if I will finish Catcher in the Rye by the end of the month, but I saw it on the banned

booklist. Now I don't Feel as though I have to rush! :) I see about five or six titles that I might pull for

this challenge.

Catcher in the Rye is a great book. See if you can "catch" others to share it with you for October!

The Random Tag Generator gave me: Social Cultural
Or, to be exact, an error page with Social Cultural in a search box.
Then it gave me
Special Relativity
Nova Scotia
Stonewall Jackson

Social Cultural? Yes!!!!!!!!

Special relativity? Hisssssssss!!!

Nova Scotia? Maybe...

Stonewall Jackson? Neverrrrrrrrrrrrr!

:)

What the heck is up with the Civil War generals? I got "Sherman" on the tag generator. Pffffffft!

I have a lot of religious tags (and none or very few of the books so tagged). I wonder if I have any books tagged Nova Scotia?

hmm. Random generator give me a tag:
Technology & Engineering
Recycle
Southern Cooking
Middle Ages-Fiction

For Southern Cooking, Pat Conroy has a great *readable* cookbook!

The Pat Conroy Cookbook

ETA: It doesn't have a "Southern cooking" tag. though. :(

Oh, heh. See, I was picturing "Middle Ages-Fiction" to be fiction about middle aged people. Actually it's about the Medieval period. hmm. Maybe there is something in there to read. I could finally read Ivanhoe or The Name of the Rose. Though I'm more likely to read a Ellis Peters book. Since I liked the three or so I've read. And I have some others.

I kind of have a ... hmm, dislike of food. I'll probably skip food related tags.

Odd. Considering all the South tags people have felt excited to employ. South Carolina (4) southern (1) southern author (1) Southern Books (1) southern food (1) southern writers (1)

That random tag generator is fun. One recent tag I was given was "bubble gum."

I got insects for a third time. I think it's a strong hint.

It would be fun to keep track of how many times you hit the generator until you found a book you wanted to use.

I got "Politics" on my third try and entered something onto the challenge - The Presidents Club.

My first was "Parenting & Childhood" which seemed easy enough, but there weren't many books specifically tagged with that combo, so I had to move on; and the second attempt was "Shadowland" (I didn't even know what that was)

Patrick, I keep getting foreign language tags and series I never heard of. I think it took me 20 tries til I got something remotely interesting.

I love these tags that everyone's getting. They're so funny. Thanks for sharing them.

Madeline, it's like a party just seeing what kind of weird tags you can get!
Congratulations on such a fun challenge especially after the problems with the grand fiasco that was the “literature map” before.

Here are my latest:

memorials
soccer
rakkaus (what is that? of to the dictionary)

ETA - RAKKAUS is defined as love, affection - do you thing that this tag was combined with love -(I don't think so)
I'm going to use it!

eta - Darn, the library doesn't have the book I wanted.

It IS fun. I just got "cheerleading" then "injuries" then "show and tell." There could be a story in there somewhere.

Oh cool. I got "read in 2011" which included Bossypants which I have on my shelf from the library. I was going to read it this weekend, but I'll hold off until the 1st to finish it.

Other possibilities for this one:

Divergent by Veronica Roth
Rivers of London by Ben Aaronovitch

Other tags I got: Texas fiction, Chinese Americans, fantasy games, flexibility, abstracting

I tried three times and got:

Craft books- nothing (I have no craft books)
Essays and Criticism - A Room of One's Own by Virginia Woolf
June 2007 - Wicked Lovely by Melissa Marr

Now I have to decide whether I'm in the mood for Virginia Woolf or paranormal romance!

>110 MikeBriggs: I put in The Name of the Rose with the tag "First U.S. Edition" if you'd like to match the read.

Lol-- I got The Name of the Rose under my first try, which was monasteries! Though since I have several long books to read, this prob won't be among them.

**********
Challenge 16: Read a book that has two or more 4's in it's ISBN

Simple and straightforward, I am giving myself a little tip of the hat since October is my birthday month and I bet you can all guess the date!

Please note: you can use either of the ISBN's listed in your book, if there is more that one

**********

The Things They Carried is an excellent book and one well worth making a shared read with DeltaQueen50!

I love the random tag generator. My first tag was "hate crimes" while I won't read a book with this tag I now know who Matt Shepard was.

I've also learned that "psykologiset romaanit" is Finnish for psychological novels, lithography is a method of printing and "Montezuma" was an Aztec emperor.

I love Suzanne's tribute to Jasper and I was delighted to be able to fit Perdido Street Station in.

Oh my, I don't dare say for how long I played with that tag generator. I clicked on that link too many times to actually note down all the tags I got, though surprisingly, several of them kept coming up. A few I listed as most obscure or amusing tags: "signal processing", "organs", "military-industrial complex", "Swedish weaving", "highways", "tall tale".

I made a list of books I might be interested in reading this month based on some of the tags I got. If anyone is interested in a shared read on any of them, let me know and I'll make a special effort to read those and will at the very list them on the wiki. For obvious reasons, I'm not listing them all right now!

*The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls (tag: substance abuse) - I see Luci mentioned that one, so will list it.
I, Claudius by Robert Graves (tag: fiction hardcover)
Keep the Aspidistra Flying by George Orwell (tag: English essays)
The Hound of the Baskervilles by Sir Arthur Connan Doyle (tag: literature (English))
Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad (tag: literature (English))
The Impressionist by Hari Kunzru (tag: literature (English))
The Loved One by Evelyn Waugh (tag: literature (English))
The Big Sleep by Raymond Chandler (tag: Raymond Chandler)
The Witches by Roald Dahl (tag: jeunesse)
The Distant Mirror by Barbara W. Tuchman (tag: Renaissance)
Maus: A Survivor's Tale (tag: read three times)
The Magicians (tag: read in 2011)
My Family and Other Animals (tag: zoology)
The Kalahari Typing School for Men (tag: Scottish authors)
Corduroy Mansions (tag: Scottish authors)
Babbitt (tag: middle America)
Native Son (tag: African American authors)
Mister Pip (tag: islands)
Confusion: The Private Papers of Privy Councillor R. von D. (tag: German novel)
Frederica (tag: Heyer)
The Fault in our Stars (tag: love)
Delirium (tag: love)
The Wolves of Willoughby Chase (tag: AU) - have no idea what this tag means and the books didn't give me a clue either. ??
Chasing Vermeer (tag: tweens)
*W. B. Yeats: Poems Selected by Seamus Heaney (tag: Yeats) - listing it
*The Life and Works of William Butler Yeats (tag: Poetry) - listing it

Madeline, I have no idea what this feature could be used for, other than giving me ideas for tags I'd never considered using myself before, since I'm a pretty compulsive tagger myself... if I come up with anything I'll let you know!

Suzanne: I hadn't seen the photos of Jasper when I passed by yesterday and just wanted to tell you that he was a very handsome boy indeed. My heart goes out to you.

I have 6 books I could list for your challenge, if I can get them in there, though I definitely can't guarantee I'll actually be able to finish them all:

The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian by Sherman Alexie
The Angel's Game by Carlos Ruiz Zafón
Atonement by Ian McEwan
The Shadow in the North by Philip Pullman
The Sweetness at the Bottom of the Pie by Alan Bradley
Passing by Nella Larsen

> 126

if I come up with anything I'll let you know!

Better skip me on that and go right to Jeremy! :)

I was #82 on the library hold list for The Casual Vacancy, J.K. Rowling's new book, but the grocery store had it at a 40% discount. I couldn't resist, so I listed it in Cyderry's challenge #3 Old or New if anyone wants to join me.

*********************************************

Challenge #17: Read a contemporary book set in the 1970s

*********************************************

I created this one for the one and only book I couldn't fit into a challenge this month, Anarchy and Old Dogs by Collin Cotterill. I've also listed The Headmaster's Wager by Vincent Lam, though I'm nearly finished with it and may complete it for September.

The title says it all. No books published in the 70s please (there was already a similar challenge).

It's ok if the story doesn't take place during that decade all the time. For instance, if it goes back and forth, or covers the 60s and 80s too and so on, as long as a large portion of the story actually takes place during the 1970s. Non-fiction is fine too.

For those joining the Steinbeckathon, you'll find both Tortilla Flat and In Dubious Battle in challenge #8.

>129 Citizenjoyce: If my library copy comes in time, I'll join you for that one.

Well I can't begin to reveal how much time I've wasted spent fooling around with the Random Tag Generator bit I finally got a tag that had a book that I own. I went through these tags (and others too numerous to mention):

year 1- ????????
terrarium
Pauline epistles
bluegrass
Romarriket - ??????
D&D 3.5 - something to do with gaming
linen
housework
SB - ??????????
Carl Jung
commas - where the only book listed that I own was A Reliable Wife, where's the comma in that??

Anyway, I finally settled on this tag - Jan. 2010 - and chose Tunneling to the Center of the Earth by Kevin Wilson, a short story collection. To round off the rest of them:

#3 - The Beautiful Mystery - Louise Penny
#4 - Death of a Red Heroine - Xiaolong Qiu
The Joy Luck Club - Amy Tan
The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust Of World War II - Iris Chang
#7 - Song of Solomon - Toni Morrison
#11 - The Crying of Lot 49 - Thomas Pynchon
#15 - Grendel - John Gardner

commas - where the only book listed that I own was A Reliable Wife, where's the comma in that??

Bonnie, YOU added the comma. LOL!

Here is my challenge for this month

**************************************
Challenge 18: Read a book by a German author
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I think that is very much self-explanatory :)

Now, I only need someone who explains to me, how to add the Challenge to the wiki :)

> 135

Do this...

1. Click on the link to the current month's wiki pages. These can be found in message #2 of the the main thread.
2. Click on edit at the top of the page.
3. Add your challenge by inserting it where you want and adding four equal signs (=) before it and after it.
4. On the next line add your book by starting with a hash tag (#), the book title (in alphabetical order - ignore "a", "an", "the" in the title), the author, and your screen name.
4. Click on "show preview".
5. Click on "save page".
6. That's it!

ADVANCED DIRECTONS (Optional): To link your book title to its work page, enclose the work page URL and book title, separated by one space, in square brackets.

If your book is adjacent to and matches another book, precede it with an asterisk.

Thank you Madeline,

I actually managed *Phew* clean sweat from forehead. :)

126> Pretty sure AU is Alternate Universe - Wolves is set in an England where the English Civil War went a different way. Or is going a different way - it's hard to tell period, but there was an attempt to blow up Parliament ala Guy Fawkes. Great series (kids books, but definitely on the dark (and funny) side).

OK, I'm in - the tweet hooked me. I need to update my 75 Books Challenge thread, too...but anyway.

Lots of tags, with assorted results, before I found one or more I was willing to read.

Lake Superior
tables
calligraphy (have, don't want to read - non-fiction how-to)
birds (have, don't want to read - Sibley et all, reference books)
Sonlight 4 (what's that?) (Sing Down the Moon)
20th century Italian literature (Cosmicomics (if I can find it))
Yesterday (have, don't want to read - read recently (The Whipping Boy)
Sholom Aleichem
21st Century Poetry
creativity (have, don't want to read - again, how-to (Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain)
Dubai
women's liberation
Netherlandish art
imaginary lands (Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Wicked, why doesn't it show I own The Hobbit? Bug thing?)
19th Century Europe
Read April 2011
Apostle Paul
anthology (On the Prowl - library book I just got)

1. Read a book found through LT’s Random Tag Generator
Cosmicomics, On the Prowl, maybe Wicked
2. Read an ER book that you won more than a year ago
Aww, I have one that's perfect for two challenges! The Survival Handbook, received April 2009. But I'll put that under challenge 9 and go for my oldest un-reviewed book (I think I win...ouch) - The Yoga Adventure for Children, received October 2007.
3. Read a book first released for publication over 100 yrs ago or in 2012
That's hard! You can't sort by OPD...Well, I think I will finally get around to reading Emma.
4. Read a book about China and neighbouring countries
OK, this time I'm going to _finish_ Moonraker's Bride! I love Peter O'Donnell, but I keep stalling on this one (the first and only Madeline Brent I've tried).
5. Read a book about Childbirth
skipping - not really interested. Maybe I'll find a romance with giving birth in it - would that count?
6. Read a book with a title word that starts with "un"
Can it count if I've already started a book, but finish it in the right month? If so, Under the Vale. If not...I'll find something.
7. Read a book with a title starting with these letters (in rolling order): J*A*S*P*E*R
The Earl's Prize - the first non-reference book that I haven't already read, starting with E (the next available letter), in my books listed by title.
8. Read a book by a dead author
A Lifetime with Lions - only book I have by the first author in my Dead or Alive list
9. Read a book about survival, or with a word which indicates survival in its title
The Survival Handbook (see under Challenge 2)
10. Read a book published under different titles in different territories
Aw rats, looks like Moon over Soho had a unified title (unlike the first book in the series). OK, indulgence - To Visit the Queen, published as On Her Majesty's Wizardly Service in the UK. Rereading well-loved book.
11. Read a book with a word in the title or author associated with a cemetery
The Graveyard Book - been wanting to read this (library book)
12. Read a book where more than half the vowels in the title are I's
This one's hard! The IDIC Epidemic fits, but I've read it before - fun, but I want BOMBS. Several with _as_many_ I-s as anything else, but not more...Aha, In The Rift works! I'll have to reread Glenraven first, though.
13. Read a book about architecture
Glass, Stones and Crown - I've had this quite a while, maybe now I'll actually read it. Kids' book, quick and easy (I believe), about building a cathedral.
14. Read a book whose title includes both letters and actual numbers
1066: The Year of the Conquest, also possibly 1066 and All That
15. Read a book from ALA's Top 100 Banned/Challenged Books 2000-2009
Ugh. Lots of books I've read and was sorry I did - one waiting for me, but no way I'll finish it in a month. Ah, Grendel! That will work.
16. Read a book that has two or more 4's in it's ISBN
OK, funny one. ...And Then Three Come Along Together, which is actually a songbook - I'll read it through, and play and/or sing at least 10 songs in it (of the several hundred, most of which I don't know tunes for).
17. Read a contemporary book set in the 1970s
Skipping. I can't find one among my books - too hard. 1970s tag doesn't help at all!
18. Read a book by a German author
Also too hard. I wish Nationality was working...

So I added an extra, meta-challenge for myself - most, though not quite all, of these books fit in BOMBS. Either I haven't read them or I read them long enough ago I can't remember my opinion of them - I need to read them and find out if I can pitch them. Exceptions - Cosmicomics (definitely keeper), To Visit the Queen (definitely keeper), The Graveyard Book (library), On the Prowl (library, though it would be a keeper if I owned it), ...And Then Three Come Along Together (keeper).

Not going to create a challenge this month - maybe next time. This is fun! And will drive me to read more, to finish these within the month.

I've got all my October reads planted in a TIOLI challenge except for Coraline. Does anyone have any idea as to where I can place this book?

138> Dunno - create a challenge to read an illustrated book? Horror, or horror with a child protagonist? I haven't looked at the old challenges - these may all have been used - but I bet you could come up with one. It doesn't seem to fit into any of the current ones.

Thanks to all the folks who are chipping in to challenge #7 in honor of Jasper! Genny -- a special thanks for finding a book about a cat -- that may earn a small prize...

Drachenbraut -- tks for the German challenge; I'm getting the galleys of Gunter Grass's nonfiction book about 1990 and reunification in the mail in the next few days, so will be able to insert that there!!

#141 Happy to read in honour of dear Jasper! Jennie will be a re-read for me; I read it many years ago but didn't own a copy so happily grabbed one last year when I came across it.

> 137

I actually managed *Phew* clean sweat from forehead

A fine job you did, too! I see you got some "takers" for your challenge. :)

>138 jjmcgaffey:

OK, I'm in - the tweet hooked me.

Heh!

Hi Jennifer! The tweet was Jeremy's doing. You can blame him for roping you in. :)

Hoo Ra! I've found an edition of Coraline that contains two 4's in the ISBN and added it to Judy's Challenge #16. Happy Birthday, Judy!

My favorite random tag: polymer clay. I got it 4 times. Also 4 times: Seeds and plants.

Okay, I have 2 more books that need a home in some challenge

The Frozen Thames
The Thirteenth Tale (I thought I saw this somewhere but it must have been wishful thinking. ) Any ideas?

I suppose I could go play with the random tag generator, but where's the fun in that? (he..he)

ETA - Well, the RTG gave me one - Canadian Author - which fits Frozen Thames - Who would have thought and I guess I'll just use my "mystery" from the very beginning again for Thirteenth Tale.

I've been clicking away on the Random Tag Generator trying to find one for The Line of Beauty as I think I'm very unlikely to finish it by midnight tomorrow. It does have one tag I got but it wasn't common enough to appear on the list.

************************************************************************************
CHALLENGE # 19: Read a Diary or Journal or a Compilation of Several Diaries
****************************************************************************************

I was surprised when I didn't find something similar in a previous challenge. I'm in a diary-reading mode right now, having just finished The Diary of a Country Parson, which was wonderful. I can also recommend the diaries of Virginia Woolf, not to mention Pepys and James Lees-Milne.......legal and profitable eavesdropping!

(I've been clicking on the random generator too. It really must like East Prussia; I've also gotten prom, leisure time, photographs, and the Civil War. It's too much fun to stop yet!)

LizzieD - you're looking for nonfiction journals only?

#146 - I kept getting polymer clay as well, also terra cotta, but the one that made me giggle was Scoby-Doo.

I've had quite a few tags that have brought up long lists of kids' books. I've thought of a challenge though, even if The Line of Beauty ends up being the only book in it.

Ok, Challenge 20 is to read a book with a politician as a major character or figure in it. It can be fiction or non fiction and the politician doesn't have to be the protagonist, but should have a significant role in the story, fictional or otherwise, that is told. In The Line of Beauty, the politician is a Conservative MP, and he is not the central character but he has a major part.

Luci, great challenge for me - I am ploughing through Truman and hoping to finish it in October.

#138 Thanks, Alternate Universe makes perfect sense. I've used that tag myself, but don't have enough of those books in my collection to ever use the abbreviation!




Here is a selection of contemporary books with 1970s settings, for those of you who would like to join challenge #17:

When You Reach Me by Rebecca Stead - Read this YA book and loved it!
Let the Great World Spin by Colum McCann
The Virgin Suicides by Jeffrey Eugenides
Feathers by Jacqueline Woodson
The Rotters' Club by Jonathan Coe
Just Kids by Patti Smith
Tales of the Madman Underground by John Barnes
The Lovely Bones by Alice Sebold
The Buddha of Suburbia by Hanif Kureishi
The Coroner's Lunch by Colin Cotterill (and the whole Dr. Siri Paiboun series) - excellent humorous murder mystery series set in Laos
A Fine Balance by Rohinton Mistry
The Fortress of Solitude by Jonathan Lethem
Black Hole by Charles Burns
The Seventies: The Great Shift in American Culture, Society, and Politics by Bruce J. Schulman
The Ice Storm by Rick Moody
Persepolis: The Story of a Childhood by Marjane Satrapi
The Kite Runner by Khaled Hosseini
America America by Ethan Canin
The Northern Clemency by Philip Hensher
Balzac and the Little Chinese Seamstress by Dai Sijie - one of my favourite novels of all time
Running with Scissors: A Memoir by Augusten Burroughs - both harrowing and amusing.

Quite a few of these are already on my TBR or wishlist, but I got the list by looking up the 1970s tag.

Books already listed for those looking for shared reads:

Anarchy and Old Dogs - Colin Cotterill
I think I Love You - Allison Pearson
Land of a Hundred Wonders - Lesley Kagen
Late Nights on Air - Elizabeth Hay
Restless - William Boyd

>138 jjmcgaffey: jjmcgaffey For my challenge the book doesn't have to be only about childbirth, but some part of human reproduction must be featured in a plot line or there has to be a really good birth scene. If one of the characters gets pregnant and has a baby but the whole process is incidental, that wouldn't count.

My planned reads for the month, it looks like I'm mostly sticking to my own devices:

Challenge #1: Read a book found through LT’s Random Tag Generator
Removed Outlander - Diana Gabaldon
Challenge #3: OLD or NEW Challenge - Read a book first released for publication over 100 yrs ago or in 2012
Pearl Ruled NW - Zadie Smith
Challenge #5: Read a book about Childbirth
✔The Baby Thief by L.J. Sellers - Nook (3.5)
✔The Basics of Genetics (The Modern Scholar) - Betsey Dexter Dyer (5)
Removed Birth: The Surprising History of How We Are Born by Tina Cassidy
Removed The Birth House by Ami Mckay
✔Birthmarked by Caragh M. O'Brien - Nook (4)
✔Building Blocks of Human Life: Understanding Mature Cells and Stem Cells - John K Young (5)
✔Call the midwife : a memoir of birth, joy, and hard times - Jennifer Worth - (5)
✔Carnival by Elizabeth Bear
✔Creating humans: ethical questions where reproduction and science collide - Alexander McCall Smith - Audiobook
✔The Midwife of Hope River - Patricia Harman (5)
✔The Midwife's Apprentice -Karen Cushman - Audiobook
✔My Mom's Having a Baby! - Dori Hillestad Butler (4)
✔My Name Is Mary Sutter by Robin Oliveira - Book Club (4)
✔Sex and Punishment: Four Thousand Years of Judging Desire - Eric Berkowitz (4)
Removed The Wet Nurse's Tale by Erica Eisdorfer
Challenge #9: Read a book about survival, or with a word which indicates survival in its title.
✔The Age of Miracles by Karen Thompson Walker (4.5)
Challenge #15: Read a book on ALA's Top 100 Banned/Challenged books 2000-2009
Pearl Ruled Grendel - John Gardner
Challenge 16: Read a book that has two or more 4's in it's ISBN
✔Bitten - Kelley Armstrong (2.5)
Challenge #11: Read a book with a word in the title or author associated with a cemetery
✔Stiff : the curious lives of human cadavers - Mary Roach (5)
Challenge #20: Read a book with one or more politicians as major character(s)/figure(s)
✔The Casual Vacancy - J.K. Rowling
✔The People and the Ballot: A History of American Party Politics (The Modern Scholar) - Professor Joshua Kaplan (5)

I think I lucked out with the random tag generator - first click I got 'Leeds' and The Damned United, which I bought recently, was high up on the list of books with that tag. After that, well, "military industrial complex" and "barns" were... not quite so much my thing. A few more clicks though and I got "gay fiction" which should be easy to find a few reads from (including the Hollinghurst, although there's now a separate challenge for that).

Thanks for the kind words about the wiki - I should say that most of that is Steven's work with just a few additions from me...

156> Yeah, bet I can find a good romance with the major plotline being related to her being pregnant and/or giving birth. In fact I just read one (but since I finished it, it won't work for this) - More Than He Expected - that one has pregnant ex-girlfriend of playboy, with a surrogate mother twist. The birth itself isn't depicted, though.

>150 countrylife: Yes, Cindy - the diaries or journals of real people, please.

I read Virginia Woolf's condensed "writer's diary" for a challenge a while back, and if anyone is looking for a book for Peggy's challenge, I'd recommend it. On the other hand, reading Sylvia Plath's diary nearly caused me to literally kill myself in my early 20s, and I haven't dared reopen the book in the last 25 years. So I'm not sure I'd suggest that!! I don't think I have anything here that fits the bill that I want to read, so this may end up being a challenge that I skip...

I think Sylvia Plath's diary had that effect on many of the young women who read it. I keep thinking I'll read it again after all these years, but...

I read Persepolis last month and would second Smiler's recommendation of it for the 70's read. It was my first foray into graphic novels/memoirs (other than the stray manga or two my kids thought I should read). Loved it! It's author Marjane Satrapi's memoir of childhood in Iran during the Revolution. She was a direct descendant of the Shah of Persia (regime prior to Shaw of Iran) and had a politically active extended family. The drawings and story line had more subtlety than I expected. A quick read--yes, but one I won't forget.

I've been debating whether to order Persepolis II through my library (it's the only other in the series available through my library system), or just ordering myself a copy of the omnibus as a present.

ETA: looks like Persepolis ll starts in 1984 so I won't be reading it for challenge 17.

:(

158: I would have loved your tags as I'm from Leeds and have several books set there I'd like to read.

Planned / possible reads for October

1. Read a book found through LT’s Random Tag Generator (Spenser series)
by Robert B. Parker
Crimson Joy completed Oct 3
Playmates
The Glass Castle by Jeannette Wells - shared read
The Redbreast by Jo Nesbo - shared read

3. Read a book first released for publication over 100 yrs ago or in 2012
Villette by Charlotte Bronte (also reading this for the 1001 Group Read)

6. Read a book with a title word that starts with "un"
Get Off the Unicorn by Anne McCaffrey

8. Read a book by a dead author
East of Eden and Tortilla Flat by John Steinbeck. Also I started East of Eden in July for the Steinkeckathon and Tortilla Flat is for the October read
The Haunting of Hill House by Shirley Jackson. Also for the Halloween Theme ad for the RIP challenge and for the RTT challenge to read a book that takes place during the 1950's

9. Read a book about survival, or with a word which indicates survival in its title
The Dovekeepers by Alice Hoffman

10. Read a book published under different titles in different territories
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (Canada) (US -Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone) by J. K.Rowling

11. Read a book with a word in the title or author associated with a cemetery
The Graveyard Book by Neil Gaiman. This also fits the Halloween group read and the RIP challenge

15. Read a book from ALA's Top 100 Banned/Challenged Books 2000-2009
Beloved by Toni Morrison

16. Read a book that has two or more 4's in it's ISBN
Fifteenby Beverly Cleary. Also reading this for the Reading Through Time Challenge to read a book that takes place in the 50's
Fledgling by Octavia E. Butler. Also for the Halloween theme read and the RIP Challenge
Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley. Also for the RTT Theme read for Medieval Times

17. Read a contemporary book set in the 1970s
The Lovely Bones by Alice Sebold

165: Neil Gaiman is alive, isn't he?

> 165
- yes?

Oh, wait a minute. Are you asking because of my reference to the 'RIP challenge'? I'm sorry about the confusion. I am referring to:



I am going to join in with R.eaders I.mbibing P.eril VII in September / October. This involves reading 'ghastly and ghostly' books. Any thing considered to be
Mystery.
Suspense.
Thriller.
Dark Fantasy.
Gothic.
Horror.
Supernatural.
Or anything sufficiently moody that shares a kinship with the above.

Since short stories were being added to the challenge through the last day of September, I thought I'd step up and start it this time.

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Challenge # 21: Read a short story or work alphabetized by the first vowel in the title (AEIOU--Y can be added or skipped after the U in each round. Disregard "A" and "The" starting the title.

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I've added a book with an 'A'. I'm mostly going to be focusing my short story reading from Gothic Tales by Elizabeth Gaskell but there wasn't an A to start us out. Several of the Gaskell's are available on line.

Just did a bit of Random Tag generating in order to get the book I failed to finish for September's TIOLI listed in this month's challenge:)

The helpful tag was Fiction Hardback:) Sorry didn't take much notice of the tags that didn't work.

Question on challenge #21: What do you mean by the "or work" part? Is this an essay in a book? A novella? A full-length book?

Don't often join in on TIOLI but decided to this month because I really need to branch out.

After going through random tags including:

Edward Cullen (noooo thank you)
National Book Critics Circle Award Finalist
childhood
Jan Brett
fluid mechanics

I settled on 'Belgian Congo' and so

1. Read a book found through LT’s Random Tag Generator

Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad

>170 thornton37814:. By using the word 'work', I was trying to include short non-fiction in the challenge.

So--an essay in a book--yes. A novella--yes. A short full length book--no.

Ooh, thank you. I'd reluctantly put away all my unfinished short story collections and I'd just been coming across more I'd forgotten all about. I thought I'd tested people's patience enough!

> 173

I'd reluctantly put away all my unfinished short story collections and I'd just been coming across more I'd forgotten all about. I thought I'd tested people's patience enough!

I see no reason not to continue with challenges that involve short stories or short works (i.e. separate essays that are each a chapter of a nonfiction book). I would however, limit this specific category to one per month. It would be entered as a challenge by whoever was the first to do so.

I see this "short option" as a way of letting people "try out" the TIOLI without having to commit to an entire book.

It also allows for people to skip around quite a lot, to vary what they read, and to allow for more shared reads.

In addition, it seems to have gotten a really nice response.

For those of you who object to this, please speak up now as we'll decide at the end of this year whether or not to continue this going into 2013.

The "rules" for this option will not be set until we take our vote in December.

One idea for these short stories might be to limit them to short works of a definite number of pages. However, most challengers don't like "limits", so do talk about this a bit.

I've moved a couple of my planned reads from more general challenges to more specific ones, because I most like challenges that have something to do with the meaning of a book.

Challenge #9: Read a book about survival, or with a word which indicates survival in its title
The Age of Miracles by Karen Thompson Walker (moved from the 4 ISBN challenge)
Challenge #20: Read a book with one or more politicians as major character(s)/figure(s)
The Casual Vacancy - J.K. Rowling (moved from the old and new challenge) I find I'm liking this much more than Suzanne did.

#163 Janet, I'm sorry you can't include Persepolis II in the challenge. The first book has been on my wishlist for quite a long time now; I've heard nothing but positive comments about it. There are quite a few of the titles I've listed as possibilities for my challenge that I'd love to read this month, but "overbooked" doesn't even begin to convey how much I exaggerated with the options I gave myself this month! I blame it on Madeline for coming up with such a fun challenge, which isn't really fair to others because it doesn't leave me much room to participate in other challenges (other than Suzanne's, because Jasper was too darn handsome for me NOT to take part in his memorial!)

> 176

I blame it on Madeline for coming up with such a fun challenge

Yeah. Go ahead and blame it on me, Ilana. I have gotten quite attached to that random tag generator, though! :)

Go ahead and blame it on me

I already did! :-)

Meanwhile, I finished my first TIOLI book today, South Riding by Winifred Holtby, which I listed under Suzanne's J*A*S*P*E*R challenge.

It's my birthday month, so I'd like to set a challenge. However, I can't think of one (I might copy DeltaQueen's next year), so - since I'm enjoying Sharon Shinn's 'Twelve Houses' series, I'm going to spoil myself and set a challenge to put the next one in.

Challenge 22 : Read a book about reading, or libraries or the star sign Libra.

Now, hopefully, I'll read Reader and Raelynx to put in it.

My own favorite part of the short story/work challenge is that the monthly rush of 'what am I am going to read next and how do I fit it in' lasts all month long.

Madeline, if there is anything I can do to help make tabulating the short stories less work for you, I'd be happy to do so. If you want it sorted out by number of users or works, or anything else I'd be happy to do it--on Excel or however you'd like. The only exception is that I am shaky as to how the points for shared reads work.

>176 Smiler69: Smiler--Boy do I understand about overbooked! I would be happy to work on each set of challenges for a couple months. There are always books both on Mt TBR and on my wishlist that I would love to read for challenges but just can't make it.

172> By novella, does that include novella's published on their own? For example, I put A Raging Storm on there which is 82 pages in length. It is, as far as I know, only published on its own. Though I believe the three "short works" in the trilogy are actually one book broken out into three parts (without that "book" actually being published on its own). I got this idea when I started the second work and found the action to take up immediately after the first ended.

Does the fact it is published on it's own make it a "short full length book"? I'm not sure what you mean by "short full length book".

>181 MikeBriggs: Mike, I looked at several definitions on the web and see there is a lot of overlap between the terms. It looks like the story you're talking about is not available by itself in a hard copy although it is available separately as an ebook.

While some of the literati here might be able to give a good distinction between the two, I'm going to say that if you believe it's a novella, then novella it is.

There are apparently various word count definitions of a novella - from 10,000 words (about 40 pages) to 70,000 (about 280). There are some novellas (and novelettes, which are supposed to be shorter) that get published independently - Anne McCaffrey's No One Noticed the Cat is usually considered a novella, though it was published as a separate work. It's quite short though, and (more or less) designed to be read in a single sitting, which is one of the definitions of a novella. Books are more likely to have chapters; novellas usually don't, though they may have sections divided by white space or something similar.

I like your definition, streamsong - it's the only one that works for everything.

Novella always feels like something that is more defined by what it isn't -- a novel or a short story -- than by what it is!

> 180

if there is anything I can do to help make tabulating the short stories less work for you, I'd be happy to do so

Thanks, streamsong, but tabulating the stats for short stories is not really a problem for me.

I have moved The Things They Carried by Tim O'Brien from Challenge #16 to Challenge #15. I just noticed it was on the list of Banned Books so I moved it to that challenge.

>185 SqueakyChu: SqueakyChu Thank you. Let me know if I can help.

Am I right in thinking that the frog-o-meter has changed to counting books only? I didn't keep track last month, so I don't know when the change occurred. I think I'll just make note of the number of shorts I read next to the number of challenge books I read.

jjmcgaffey and chatterbox thanks for helping with the definition of novella. I was definitely on the wrong side of campus (science and math) to learn the finer points.

Finished Crimson Joy by Robert B. Parker and started his Playmates
And also started The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls;
listening to Carrie by Stephen King, read by Sissy Spacek.
Will try to get started on Alice Hoffman's The Dovekeepers today.
Continuing with the Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley

What a wonderful thing the Random Tag generator is. I just tried, and got "The Kingkiller Chronicles", which to most people wouldn't mean a thing, unless - like me - they read Fantasy. There are only two books under the tag; I have the first book, but I can't get hold of mine currently. Mind you, the second is on my wish list ....

After a series of horrible random tags (John Muir, and other specific ones) I got 'general fiction' and just added Rebecca to Challenge 1.

I've counted short works so far.

Streamsong would Kindle singles count as novellas

> 187

Am I right in thinking that the frog-o-meter has changed to counting books only?

Since the frog meter is not a competition and just a tracking device, use it how you want to. If you add the short stories, change the word "books" to "works" and keep on leaping. If you'd prefer to use the frog meter for just complete books, you may do that as well, but your name will end up lower on the meter. Some challengers use it to track pages read as well.

Thanks for the clarification, Madeline.

>192 dsstukes: goddessspt2-- I don't have a Kindle or other electronic reading device, and so I'm not familiar with the Kindle singles. I did go look at them on Amazon. The ones I saw were often called short stories, novellas and essays. There is a printed page count equivalent listed; the ones I saw were 40-108 pages. I would say that many or most of them would count using the spirit of the definition that jjmcgaffey posted in 183. I'm going to leave it up to the reader's discretion.

I just finished the new J. K. Rowling and loved it, though not all agree. Good for her, I have to say.

Citizenjoyce (and everyone else reading it) did you see the LT review contest on the blog? I hadn't heard anyone mention it and don't often look at the blog but saw it yesterday. There's a link to the blog at the bottom of each page.

It may be the intention that "the frog meter is not a competition and just a tracking device", but for me if it continues to be used to count short story works I won't use it in 2013. It's just no fun to have no chance at all to be in the top spot.

Morphy, whether or not I count short stories, I don't think I've read more than 8 books / works in a month for the 75 book challenge, if that. I may have been in the top spot once, when I finished a book from the previous month just too late to get in, so I happened to be first onto the meter. I have no hope of being in the top spot, otherwise, but I like to keep track.

In the meantime, added Tashi, Tashi and the Giants and Tashi and the Ghosts to Challenge 16 (2 4's in the ISBN). (Actually, they're books; but they are junior fiction. And further cheating - my son read them to me. I suppose that makes them audio books, so they still qualify) ;-)

Happy Birthday, Judy!

> 197

It may be the intention that "the frog meter is not a competition and just a tracking device", but for me if it continues to be used to count short story works I won't use it in 2013. It's just no fun to have no chance at all to be in the top spot.

I think this goes along with whether or not we want to count short stories as acceptable or not for a TIOLI challenge for 2013.

If not, the frogmeter reverts back to books only.

If so, we'll then need to decide if we should have one or two frog meters for 2013.

I guess that my orginal take on the short story as a TIOLI challenge was that they would not endure. One was originally started early this (correction:) last year by MikeBriggs. More recently they captured increasing interest to the effect that they've made back-to-back challenges in adjacent months. It seems as if they are not a passing fad.

Short stories change the nature of completing books for TIOLI as short stories are only excerpts from books not COMPLETED.

If we decide not to include short stories (as each being andindividual work) for 2013, we'll need to think of how (and whether) we can maintain a TIOLI challenge for stories and whether or not to "outsource them" to someone other than myself.

We wil take a vote about this at the beginning of December and move into the New Year with a definite answer for everyone. The poll will last one week. It will not accept "undecided" as an answer. It will have a cutoff time. (midnight EST - my time). The majority wins. Even by one vote.

The first poll will be if we should acceopt short stories as an individual work in 2013.

If the answer to that is "Yes", we will have another poll to determine the best way to deal with that issue on our frog meter (perhaps having two frog meters?).

In the meantime, speak up if you have opinions (pro or con) about this as your opinions will affect how others view this issue - even if they themselves do not participate in the short story challenges.

In the meantime (#2), try out the short story challenges if you have not already done so.

If there are any other solutions to this issue, I'd be delighted to hear them.

jeez, I've never had a chance at being in the top spot. don't care. don't use it. it's definitely a 'leave it' thing for me.

Me, again. I once asked, because I was reading an anthology or something, and was told that you can count it as a book if it's been published separately, so that's what I've stuck with. I don't think I've happened to be reading short stories for the months the challenges were on, or maybe just once.

I'd say that, unless it's happening every month or very frequently, allow short stories to be counted just for the month the challenge is on. If it's frequent, maybe two frog meters is the way to go.

199>
"Short stories change the nature of completing books for TIOLI as short stories are only excerpts from books not COMPLETED."

I do not know what this means. Short stories are works in and of themselves. They are complete as is. I've always seen them as separate works, I suppose, because I grew up with them. As separate entities. They have their own awards. They can be basis, by themselves, for a movie, etc (it is actually 'easier' to make a good/great movie from a short story that would satisfy readers and movie goers as much less would be left out). Some have had a deep impact on me as is, without considering anything else in whatever it was I found the short story. They can appear in many different collections, or even on their own. I've even seen tiny little 20 page pamphlet like books that contain one short story.

I've almost never read a short story book straight through as a book (many, probably not most, of the short stories I've read weren't even in a book). One exception would be when a series of interrelated short stories were joined together, massaged, fondled, and a book was formed from them (I believe Tuf Voyaging fits this idea).

There are, though, "excerpts" of books put out there. Say the first three chapters of a book. I have some of those on my kindle. I've read them. I have never thought of them as short stories, nor have I ever counted them as works. Some lead me to reading the whole book. Some didn't. One exception involved an anthology of short stories which offered one or two short stories as part of the book excerpt. I counted those short stories.

I suppose I'm responding more because of the use of "excerpts", as the only time I've seen that used previously have been what I mentioned in the paragraph above. An excerpt of a longer work. Which a short story is not. It is not an excerpt of a longer work. It might be part of a longer work in the form of a collection, but then so many short stories fall into so many different short story collections, it would be difficult to say which specific of the various collections that contain that short story would be labeled the "longer work". An example, "We Can Remember It for You Wholesale" by Philip K. Dick has appeared in many different short story collections. It is complete in and of itself. It was first published in the April 1966 issue of The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, and can be found in the short story collections: The Preserving Machine (1969); The Collected Stories of Philip K. Dick: Volume V (1987); The Little Black Box (1990); We Can Remember It for You Wholesale (1990); The Philip K. Dick Reader (1997); Minority Report (2002); Selected Stories of Philip K. Dick (2002). It is also the basis for one or two television series and two film adaptations. All of which used the title "Total Recall".

Actually, thinking more about it, I'd have a lot more short story collections on here if I thought of them as something to be added on their own. I cared about the individual short story in them, not the collection. I'd probably feel differently if short stories stuck in one book and never found their way into any other collection, or get published on their own. I recall one year where I had two different "Best of" science fiction collections for a particular year, and both had Varley's Press Enter# in it. If I didn't keep seeing the same stories popping up in different collections, I might think more of them as "excerpts" from books. I'd also feel differently if so many collections of short stories didn't get published with the same or similar names, but contain different stories within them. I'd also feel differently if I didn't read so many best of, world's best, etc. short story collections, and read more of the interrelated short story collections.

On the other hand, and one of the reasons I almost do not think of short story collections as their own entities, I would never record a short story collection as read if I only read one story, or even 12 of 13.

I'm not doing it now but I can change entry on the frogometer next time I go into it to just count full books (4 so far I think). I ended up with enormous totals for the last two months mainly because I prioritised short stories and so read a lot, I don't think I will read so many this month. However, I would argue that counting short works actually offers more potential, and more opportunity, to some people to get higher up the frogometer. And some short stories are a lot shorter or longer than others, just like some full length books, but most are longer than most children's picture books....

My page count read doesn't even include short stories because I have a lot of anthologies/collections on Kindle which don't have any so pages would be a mix of guess and maths calculation, probably based on inaccurate details.

I use the frogometer to see where I stand in terms of shared reads and total reads. It's certainly not a competition. I'm not reading enough, especially this year, to be ever be top frog.

I've been keeping track of books I've read since 1976. I don't keep track of short stories I've read, unless I read an entire collection of short stories. I don't keep track of magazines I've read either. For instance, I might read the stories in the month's Ellery Queen or Alfred Hitchcock magazines but I don't count those or keep track of those. Personally, it doesn't matter much as I'm not big on short stories, except for the aforementioned mystery short stories, occasionally.

On the broader question of short stories as works:

I think if the challenge is specific to "read a short work", I have no quibble with seeing one of those every month or so. What I have noticed is that these challenges tend to generate very long lists of works read, which is great in one respect, but harder to skim through, look at, etc. (one of the fun parts of TIOLI for me is looking to see what others are reading). Let's say that this month's "Un" challenge (books with titles that featured words like unnatural, uncanny, uncommon, etc.) also permitted short stories, essays, etc. It would become very sprawling.

I suppose what I am saying is that I'd like to see periodic/monthly short work challenges, but that other challenges, as a general rule, should be for book-length works, or have it left up to the discretion of the challenger if she/he wants to open that up to shorter works. Right now, for instance, the rule of thumb is that shared reads are allowed unless specified otherwise. I'd suggest flipping that, and saying except in the case of a challenge specifically devoted to short works, or when a challenger specifies that short works are OK for their TIOLI challenge, short works don't qualify as completed books. There would be enough flexibility in there to keep people happy, perhaps?

Mike, I think your & Madeline's comments point out that people approach reading short works differently. For instance, you & I may pick up something like "Best American Essays" or a short story anthology and read one or two stories, whereas others may pick up a book of short stories by a single author and read through them. We've had anthology challenges in the past; now we're having challenges that don't require people to complete a collection. I think that's just because we all have different ways of approaching the material.

One question that lingers in my mind although it hasn't emerged in practice yet, is where we draw the line on a short work. Is it an article in the New Yorker or Harpers? If not, why not? The subject matter can be just as thoroughly covered; increasingly frequently these kinds of works are being published as Kindle singles, etc. We may need to establish a guideline as to what is or isn't a "work". Because if a long-form article in the New Yorker is OK, why not a feature article in Marie Claire?

I suspect that two frog meters might become unwieldy; doesn't matter to me how that is handled, though, or whether they are included as works. My concern is more with the wiki, and the general concept. Also -- if we're talking about "works", what does that imply for the idea of the "75 challenge"? Currently, if I read Kindle singles, I tend to group about three of them together to form a "book length" work as a single book toward the 75. If I read essays from anthologies, I don't count them at all; if I read a book of essays or a book of short stories, I will count that as a book.

I guess that my primary concern here is that we not get all caught up in defining, redefining and hyper-analyzing what is a "book" or a "work", in case it distracts too much from our discussion of those things in their own right.

In response to 204 I wrote (less a response than thoughts that developed from reading):
I mostly only track, and rate, short stories to find potent new authors to seek out in full-length form. Much quicker and easier to zip through a short story. At least it was when I started long ago. Now two factors have come to interfere with my fun: 1) I've found that the ability to write very good short stories does not always equate to ability to write very good long form; though I counter that by noting the large number of authors I've sucessfully added through this method; 2) with certain exceptions, I find short stories too short now-a-days. What with the speed I read full-length works.

One note re the frog meter -- my only preference is that it be consistent. So if we include short works, people all include them in their count, or vice versa. It's pretty easy for anyone who cares to look at the challenges listed beside the names and realize how many short works someone has read if they're curious about how a specific # has been reached.

205>
I've mostly steered clear of short story challenges, especially anthology based ones for that reason. That reason being that I tend to read for the short stories as opposed to collections. I especially enjoyed collecting a huge stack of short story magazines and filtering them. Stacking them according to authors. Then reading, say, three John H. Dirckx stories in a row, or three Edward D. Hoch that are in the same series (oh, I just recalled I found Donald Westlake through these stacking of magazines, then reading.). Each of the stories being found in separate magazines. Or, when I was reading best of anthologies - collecting them and then reading through all the John Varley I found throughout those books.

- "where we draw the line on a short work"
One of the things I tracked long long ago on my own separate spreadsheet were such things as articles and other non-fiction. My desire was similar to finding good fiction authors from reading short stories. Here finding good nonfiction authors from tracking essay and news article authors. Though here I only recall finding two authors from this method. Tony Kornheiser and Dave Barry. I read two Thomas Boswell books because of his articles, but I found that he is easier to read in smaller doses. Actually, I found Tony Kornheiser to be the same easier to read in smaller doses. So I only found Dave Barry through this method.

I no longer track nonfiction authors in this fashion. Mostly because my database is now online, and none of the online ones I use "accept" short nonfiction works unless they are/were published separately.

"Currently, if I read Kindle singles, I tend to group about three of them together to form a "book length" work as a single book toward the 75."

I recently read Richard Castle's Storm trilogy through ebooks. Three works, all roughly 80 pages in length. It really did seem to be one book that had been broken down into three parts. I expected three different "adventures", but one book lead directly into the next.

206 Interesting thoughts. For me, when I do read a short story or novella, it's often from an author I already like. Interestingly, I rarely like the short story or novella even when it is an author I like.

Suz, thanks for your thoughts about Kindle Singles. For 2013's 13 in 13 challenge, for instance, one of my categories is "Kindle Singles." Of course, that's mostly to give myself a break and, of course, my 13 in 13 is whatever I say it is. Most of my Kindle singles are short essays.

For my own rule of thumb, I guess, if it's something I've purchased or borrowed and it's sold separately, I feel I can count it towards my own challenges. If it's something in a larger work, I won't count it. I don't count an essay or short story I've read from a book of related essays or short stories. However, when I read Bart Giamatti's essay on baseball, which I obtained as a separate item, I did count that one.

#198 - Thanks for the birthday wishes, Nina.

I am not a big reader of short stories, but I have no objection to either having specific challenges that comprise of reading short stories or in the counting of them on the frog meter. I use the frog meter, mostly as a way of tracking my own progress, and I think it's a fun way to see how everyone is progressing through the challenges. I count my books read on my own thread, and use the frog meter as a indication of how many challenges I have completed.

I like to think that the TIOLI Challenges help us all to focus on what we are going to read, and if that focus is on shorter works in some months, that's fine with me. I think having a second frog meter would be confusing and create extra work. As to the definition of what comprises a shorter work, I would leave that up to whoever designs the particular challenge for that month.

I'm enjoying this discussion.

Again I'm seeing that there are more than one issue to consider here: one is short works as challenges, and one is
short stories as "works"

I've been participating enthusiastically in the short story challenges, but this discussion has encouraged me to think about why. I can see three reasons.

1. Challenges focused on individual short works have changed the way I approach short story collections, of which I have many, gathering dust. I do generally read short story collections cover-to-cover, but slowly, often over a period of several months. So they don't tend to fit very easily into other kinds of TIOLI challenges, and my reading is disproportionally driven by TIOLI lately. These short works challenges have given me a reason to choose stories in a random order, and I've been intentionally jumping from author to author and collection to collection, guided only by where I might find a Z. Where this results in the discovery of an author I particularly like, I end up working through the collection in my more traditional manner, but it's been really fun to read haphazardly and I can't see why I would ever do this on my own, without a reason.

2. They are rolling challenges. streamsong said above My own favorite part of the short story/work challenge is that the monthly rush of 'what am I am going to read next and how do I fit it in' lasts all month long. I couldn't agree more! For me all rolling challenges feel this way for a while--the excitement of waiting for your letter to come up. Unfortunately the joy of the average rolling challenge is dampened after a couple of weeks when you've already posted 20 titles to the TIOLI wiki and the idea of adding one more book--even though it's the one you've been waiting for--becomes absurd. But not so with the short works challenges--you can keep adding and adding and reading and reading right up until the last day of the month. I love this. I think the idea of "quick reads" day appeals for similar reasons.

3. They are new and different (although becoming less so!) An unexpected challenge always appeals.



Short stories as works

As Mike argues persuasively up above, I also consider a short story or an essay to be a complete work, in and of itself, and not merely an uncompleted portion of the collection it's in. But whether it is a "work" in the sense TIOLI means it, or in the sense of the 75 in 2012--I tend to think no. At least, it is not what I mean by a work.

For example, although I'm tabulating the number of short stories completed for the TIOLI challenges, I don't include them on my 75 list. I would only count short stories there, if I read the whole book. And in my 12 in 12 I would only count an individual story if my category was written to explicitly say "read 12 short stories." Other people may define this differently, and I've always understood that what you count in your 75 is your own business.

I agree with Suzanne that I wouldn't want to see short stories or essays replace books in other challenges. I also agree that if it is not specified that short works are allowed, a challenge should be assumed to relate to books. (But it does seem we allow novellas, Kindle singles, and other fairly short items that are published separately to count. Again, I don't especially feel there need to be rules about this, and think it's fine that people determine their own counting rules, but others may disagree.)

I don't care whether short stories are included on the frog count or not. I've been counting them, because they relate to a challenge, but if we decided not to count them I would be happy to omit that challenge from the count or to list it on the side. I do think that consistency would be good, so that we all either count the story challenge on the frog page, or don't. Is it worth creating a poll to decide this for October?

I can't say that I've been a huge participant in any of the Short Story challenges, but in my opinion, who does it hurt whether we count them one way or another? If the TIOLI Meter is viewed as a competition, I guess it makes a difference, but based on the numbers the top readers usually hit, I couldn't read enough books, even if they were the length of a business card to try to win. So I just use it to keep track of what I've done. But that's me.

But when I do read short stories, I allow LT to dictate how they are "counted". For example, I listened to an audio collection of short stories by Mark Twain. Some of the stories (but not all) did have independent entries where I could have posted reviews and "ownership" separately, but the collection I read was also listed. Since I read the whole thing, I posted my review and listed only the collection as my completed work. On the flip side, my company actually publishes a collection of short stories on audio where we pull a story out of an anthology and sell it by itself as an unabridged recording of the story, but lasting under an hour. One of these, "House Tour" by Lee Smith, I have not posted yet because LT does not have that story listed as its own entity - only the collection (Mrs. Darcy and the Blue Eyed Stranger). Since I haven't read the collection, I won't count that. And since the individual story is not significant enough to have garnered its own recognition on LT, to me, it doesn't "count". Others may disagree.

In the end, we all have the "take it" or "leave it" options to us, and I do not think anyone should feel guilty about doing anything the way they want to. Personally, I see no difference to tracking Short Stories as when we track children's books (although admittedly it's far less of an issue finding a children's book listed independently on LT than a SS). If I read the Giving Tree to my daughter, I'm counting it as a book. Period. And I don't think anyone would challenge that definition. The fact that I could read it 5,437 times in the same period it takes someone else to read War and Peace is apples to oranges. So if someone wants to count a short story - particularly if they are doing so because that's how they like to read (and not just to garner TIOLI points or frog leaps) - then they should be allowed.

I wonder if we're going to go a whole month on one thread again? Especially since it's only the 4th! Guess we've been talking alot, or it must be all the fun we've been having with the Random Tag Generator. ;-)

>196 streamsong: Thanks for the information about the blog contest, streamsong. I think The Casual Vacancy is one of those books that benefit greatly from knowing nothing about it, so I was quite non specific in my review, which, I know, does not make for a good review.

I have no trouble with short works of any description being used as the basis of challenges. I find I have a personal objection to them being regarded as "complete works" for the sake of a challenge - but that's just me - and I can appreciate the logic of those who argue that an independently published short story is a complete work.

To look at this from a wider perspective, don't we all make our own rules for what we count as a "completed work" on our threads? I tend to read anthologies as single works; others may dissect them out. There's no right or wrong about it, still less any "cheating".

For TIOLI, the questions seem to be two-fold: do we restrict short works to specific short work challenges? - and if not, do we make "short works allowed" or "no short works allowed" the default?

Either way, the overriding consideration here should be that, whatever we decide, it does not make more work for Madeline.

Speaking as one of those with no chance of ever being Top Frog (though, yes, I do get a giddy thrill out of those rare occasions when I get a fast break from the blocks in the first few days of a month, and briefly hold the title with three or four books read), I am indifferent to the inclusion of short works in the tally. It isn't meant to be a contest, after all, just a bit of extra fun. If others are fussed about it, perhaps short works could be marked in the brackets with an asterisk (e.g. 10, 11*, 13*)?

Thanks streamsong for the response on Kindle singles.

> 202

I apologize for my use of the word "excerpt", Mike. I did not mean to identify short stories as unfinished or partial works, but rather as only a part of of anthologies. That is not to say that a short story cannot stand alone or be published alone.

> 211

...but it's been really fun to read haphazardly and I can't see why I would ever do this on my own, without a reason.

I had been doing the same thing recently, Anne, and found it quite fun to begin to choose short stories at random. I do, however, make a note of those I read on my LT private notes so that I don't keep re-reading the same stories over and over again. It's the old memory, you know! :)

For example, although I'm tabulating the number of short stories completed for the TIOLI challenges, I don't include them on my 75 list. I would only count short stories there, if I read the whole book.

...and I have been doing likewise.

Going forward, I think it would add variety for short works to be allowed in our challenges in order to stimulate other creative types of reading. What about a professional journal article or magazine articles? I could do a CEU (continuing education unit) for renewing my nursing license! What about editorial articles in a newpaper? We could pick some great ones, for example, from the Outlook section of The Washington Post.

Other than short stories, essays would be great. You can think of more ideas. However, I think we should only have one challenge per month be allowed for short works. The first one posted should prevail. It should be labelled THE SHORT WORK CHALLENGE so that others will then only post books and no other short works challenges.

There would be no need to use short works each month. We might grow tired of them. Up until now most of us post what we like to read and strictly avoid reading books in those TIOLI categories that we dislike.

Is there anyone else here beside Morphidae who would not use the frog meter in 2013 if short works were included? If not, why not? I do like it! :)

> 212

So if someone wants to count a short story - particularly if they are doing so because that's how they like to read (and not just to garner TIOLI points or frog leaps) - then they should be allowed.

LOL!!

I use the frog meter because it's fun! I never reach the number of hops of the top frog, even if short works aren't included. I aim to have as many shared reads as possible, and I am proud when I have a lot of shares. I've also started keeping track of pages, just as a matter of personal analysis.

The frog meter is an easy way to keep track of our TIOLI reading--I hope we hang onto it, no matter how we handle short works.

Karen O.

> 251

For TIOLI, the questions seem to be two-fold: do we restrict short works to specific short work challenges? - and if not, do we make "short works allowed" or "no short works allowed" the default?

Either way, the overriding consideration here should be that, whatever we decide, it does not make more work for Madeline

My preference, as I noted above, is to limit short works (whatever that means to you) to one challenge per month. The reason for that is this...

The short work challenge becomes very lengthy by the end of the month and does require some "tending". I do that willingly now, but would not like to see the sprawl of short works on all of the other challenges. The other challenges should be complete books (whatever that means to you).

I don't remember any issues from when MikeBriggs first entered a short TIOLI works challenge. It went along just fine.

If others are fussed about it, perhaps short works could be marked in the brackets with an asterisk (e.g. 10, 11*, 13*)?

I like that, Liz!

Here's me on the Frog Meter...

1. SqueakyChu (1, 2, 3, 12*x11)

That means I completed TIOLI challenges #1, #2, #3 (a shared read, which I bolded), and #12 (11 short works).

By the way, you don't have to list all of the intervening numbers on the Frog Meter from now on when there are no names under a particular number. That would only make the Frog Meter much too l-o-n-g. :D

from 199> "I guess that my orginal take on the short story as a TIOLI challenge was that they would not endure. One was originally started early this year by MikeBriggs. "

I've been somewhat confused since this started about short stories. So I had to go look it up, which lead to me redoing/adding to the summary pages.

My short work challenge was put forth June 2011.

I did have a medium work challenge in August of 2012, but that was for works 150-288 pages in length.

Oh, and I've also updated the TOLI summary pages. Because of the length of the complete summary page (http://www.librarything.com/wiki/index.php/Take_It_or_Leave_It_Challenge_summary), I've broken it down by year.

My short work challenge was put forth June 2011.

Wow! Was it that long ago?! It caused no reverberations back then when you posted it. I'm not sure why it suddenly now has caused such controversy.

Found it - See challenge #21.

I'm wondering if the fact that the short story then was listed as "the work" and not "a component of a work" that no contoversy was aroused. The most current listing has listed the short work and then *also* the longer work from which it was taken. That method of listing it made it stand out more, I think.

Many thanks for udating the TIOLI summary, Mike.

Okay, I'm way late to the party but I did the random tag generator thing and the tag it came up with for me was (are you ready?):
"Beavers"

Guess I'll be reading a book about beavers this month......

> 226

You can try the random tag generator as many times as you like--until you come up with something you'd really rather read.

Beavers sound good to me, though. I like those little guys! :)

>211 AnneDC: AnneDC Your post eloquently sums up my feeling about the short story challenge.

I have to admit I'm not reading all the discussion about the short story challenges because I just don't care how they're counted. When I use them my frog meter is artificially high, looks great but I know it's wrong. What I do like about the challenges is that, for the most part, I hate to read a whole book of short stories, but adding random ones encourages me to try new authors or old authors in new ways.

I have to admit that I'm not really into the short story discussion per se. I don't read too many so it really doesn't apply to me, however, it doesn't seem to be a fair comparison on the meter t have some reading books and others reading short stories, so if it were me, I wouldn't count them the same way.

I think that, as an experiment, for next month on the frog meter (the same page/not two pages), I'll try both a short works meter and a book meter. Challengers would be able to use either, both, or none. Do you think that might work?

227> Oh, I didn't realize there was that flexibility. Oh well, it's okay. I put Little Beaver and the Echo on hold at the library and I'm curious to see what it's like. I'll feel a tad guilty counting it toward my 75 for the year, though.... ;-)

I like the the two meter solution. Sounds perfect.

I haven't paid much attention to the discussion because I don't even notice the frog-o-meter most of the time. I'm here because the challenge is fun. Meters make no difference.

---pst--the frog-o-meter at the top of this page goes to September.

I've added the following:

Challenge #8 (dead author)
The Secret Language of Symbols by David Fontana

Challenge #11 (cemetery)
One Foot in the Grave by Jeaniene Frost

Challenge #16 (4's in ISBN)
Alpha and Omega: Cry Wolf - Volume One by Patricia Briggs
The Story of Beautiful Girl by Rachel Simon (most number of 4's so far - 5 of them!)

> 235

Fixed. Thanks!

I've added Barbara Pym's Excellent Women to challenge #8. I really wanted to put it into Suzanne's challenge, but I've missed the E's three times already!

I'm trying an experimental frog meter here on October's frog meter.

What you'll see are *two* frog meters on the same wiki page. The top one is of TIOLI books. The bottom one is of TIOLI works. What I'd like you to do is pull your works from the top meter (the book meter) and put them in the lower meter (the bottom meter). Cintinue to use the asterisk for the works. It's a nice visual cue (as you know I like those!).

When all of the works are pulled from the top meter and entered into the bottom meter, change the title to "BOOKS" instead of "WORKS" up top. If that's not clear, I'll do it later. I want you to do it first to see if this will resolve our communal TIOLI anxiety about works versus books.

We will continue to have the vote in December, but first I'm going to see if I can make the idea of TIOLI works work (no pun intended!) for all of us.

Your thoughts?

For now, let's try to keep just one challenge amonth as wroks instead of books. If this experiment goes okay, we might think of allowing more that one "works" challenge per month. That will open up to us a whole new world of reading!

Let's begin slowly, though...

For now, let's continue to only introduce one "works" challenge per month. If my experiment with the frog meter succeeds, later on we can think of introducing more than one per month. That will open up to us whole new worlds of challenges and reading!

Let's begin slowly, though...

Done.

I believe this is a wise decision that elegantly covers both viewpoints.

#239 So we will have a frog position on both frog meters? One according to the number of books read and one according to the number of short story/essay works read? I'm confused...

> 243

So we will have a frog position on both frog meters? One according to the number of books read and one according to the number of short story/essay works read?

Don't be confused. You expressed it *exactly*.

> 242

I believe this is a wise decision that elegantly covers both viewpoints.

Thanks. I like it myself! :)

I blew it with my entry on the bottom froggy. Missed the lilly pad and landed in the water. Ker-splash! I think it's right now. The perils of going first.

I can see how the two frog meters are going to inspire me to do well in both categories without causing the confusion that formerly existed between books and works.

#244 Ok, thanks - got it!

I finished and REVIEWED Louise Penny's new mystery, The Beautiful Mystery for the Challenge to read a Book Published in 2012. Now I am reading Grendel by John Gardner for the Banned Books Challenge.

Now that you've resolved the frog meter problem so elegantly (for now, at least), I want you to put them side by side, in two columns. Just to make your life even harder ;-)

*just off to check whether I put my books on October's or September's wiki. Back soon*

Nope; it's fine. I went through from the Challenges wiki. But I did wonder where my comment had gone, when I checked it. Didn't notice it was the wrong month, sorry!

I want you to put them side by side, in two columns.

I think you're kidding, but, if you're not, I have absolutely NO IDEA how to do that!! :)

I Pearl Ruled both NW and Grendel. Life's too short to annoy myself with books I don't like, so I had to remove them from shared challenges. Sorry. Instead I've begun listening to Bitten which I know folk read last month, but better late than never. Let's hope this one doesn't have the same effect.

Heh. I finished Grendel - it was short enough I was willing to slog through it. My review mostly asks if it was banned to trick people like us into reading it...

I read and liked Bitten, though. Hope you enjoy.