Touchstones stick!

I've just finished up a long-running request, to get touchstones to "stick."



Basically, when you edit a post with Touchstones, it inserts "helpers" into the text. The upside to this is that touchstones now stick. The downside is that, perhaps, they stick too well—you have to get rid of the helper as well as the text if you want to change it.

On the other hand, you can now "force" a particular work or author easier than before. And, all things being equal, it was the easiest user-interface I could think of given how touchstones actually work.

Anyway, let me know if you find problems, and sorry for the hour or so that touchstones were hinkey tonight.

Will you marry me?

There's the issue of the Gewürztraminer temperature, and of the spouses. Mine loves it chilled, so I'm already set.

Incidentally, the "right" solution would have been to preload the right at the same time as the left, with the right including the choices made before. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work that way--the right side is always dynamically made from the brackets on the left. The imperfect solution was more doable in the time frame.

Thank you, Thank You ! I tried it and it works. So you are using the work# in the message to make it stick. If we enter that when using the touchstone will it automatically pull up the book you want, rather than having to search for it ?

>4 FicusFan:

Yes.

oh, excellent! I like this very much. Thanks Tim!

I can't wait to get off these pain killers (kidney stones are awesome) so I can get off the iPad, sit at my desk, and fix my Library of Congress challenge list.

I might even think about joining some other challenges (Europe is calling me) because of this fix.

Danke, Tim.

Yay!

Thank you!

Oh, this is superb! I was able to make touchstones for titles which don't appear in the first 100 choices, and for authors which haven't shown up before in touchstones. Thank you Tim!!!!

Well, I'm going to bed soon. If any problems crop up, well, nothing's going to happen for at least three days. I'm taking a three-day vacation, camping, and will be rather out of touch.

Cheers all!

Very helpful improvement. I wonder if eventually you won't have to overhaul Talk to include metadata for each post (so you don't have to have the helper).

ETA: Interesting. This has the added benefit of allowing you to simply paste in a work number/author id if you want. That's a feature I would have requested all by itself.

first, I LOVE THIS. that you a million times over.

second...

nevermind. naturally the problem was magically fixed as soon as i posted here.

Trying it: One Hundred Years of Solitude

Yeah, seems to work. I think there is a slight problem in that the number one result is for a version that was later combined into the main one. But it does seem to work.

> 11

Just got back from my own three-day trip so you deserve one of those as well. Have fun...and thanks, Tim! Sticky touchstones was a feature I've long wanted.

ok, i think i know what the problem was now. One Hundred Years of Solitude and The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo were both touchstones i could never get to work. like you said, it's probably because there are SO many editions.

what i just noticed is that both of those showed up as work#::work title the first time i tried to force them. so i went back to reedit and they magically seemed fine. could that be a caching issue? the others i've tried have worked fine!

Wooooot! Yaaaaaay!

Thank you.

This is Absolutely Fabulous, well done and thanks a heap.

>18 MMcM: ;)

Edited just to be nosy!

Have a great vacation, Tim! And many thanks for this fix!

It almost works in my 25 book challenge summary.

Spider World can be selected from the list as "Spider World by Colin Wilson", but it doesn't stick and there is no Touchstone. Clicking on the "Spider World" in it brings up just one volume of the set, however. There may be no entry in the data for the set.

The Forge of Christendom can be selected from the list for this book but the message does not show a Touchstone. It reverts to another listing by the author.

Jane Smiley's A Thousand Acres brings up a short list that does not include the book itself. So it doesn't matter whether it sticks, I suppose.

NB Spider World and The Forge of Christendom were each entered with brackets, and I had selected a work for each, but there is no sign of that in the message.

These are complications, I guess, beyond, but including, the current issue. They are still frustrating and still related. I have to fuss with them each time I go back to the message.

Robert

I see a huge, messy polygamous wedding coming up.

This is an obvious improvement, but will potentially break on combinations. Is that likely to be an issue?

It might also be good if we can 'preload' the touchstones by just specifying the workid or authorid, like this:
{92167}
{{crenshawjamesl}}

earth Always good for checking.

How about stephen donaldson, or CJ Cherryh ?!

OH dear. Author touchstones are still flakey.

It's a good start.

Edit check for stickiness. I like.

WOW! I thought I felt the earth move earlier today. :p

Awesome, awesome, awesome. I haven't had a chance to try something like this, but I know several people have asked for a "work id + title" type control for a while now. I'll be using it not just for the "stickiness" but because I find it easier to open a new tab and do the searches there rather than through the touchstone interface.

Thank you!!!!

HOORAY!

uhm, clicking on the touchstones on this thread gives me a space under the title and takes me nowhere. Is that what you wanted? I doubt it!

also, no authors actually link.

>29 majkia:

That's been broken for months. timspalding said he's working on it. There's several posts that has links to workarounds on this thread on touchstone fixes.

I read #1 as saying he'd fixed this. And books at least were working for me before, at least most of the time.

Sorry. This only affects touchstones in the running text. The ones on the right I'm working on in a redo of the page.

oh. light dawns. Thanks! Need more caffeine.

I'm seeing problems with some titles that contain colons that aren't the touchstone engine's first choice. Finding the correct title and submitting the post all work fine the first time, but after editing, the touchstones either revert back to the first suggested title, or they show as plain text after submitting.

Some examples:
The Epic of Gilgamesh: An English Version with an Introduction
Lost Christianities: Christian Scriptures and the Battles over Authentication

Perhaps a pipe might have been a better way to go than colons.

*Happy dance* Thank you!

Just a note for those who might be wishing to use the new sticky format to "pre-load" the right work number or authorid like I mentioned in #12 - it doesn't seem to work that well for that purpose. I've tried to use the work#::sometext and it will identify the correct work on the right side of the edit section. But upon saving it, the touchstone is no longer linked and just shows work#::sometext. It seems like it's doing something else behind the scenes that you can't replicate by just typing it in by hand.

Also, I tried it on a work and then combined it into a larger one and it seemed to work correctly, even though when I went to edit it still showed the old work#.

Thanks, Tim, this is great.

Pesky Links

Once you add the work# and save it and it shows the number and the title on the left, if you edit it again (don't have to do anything), then save, it will make a link.

Not ideal but at least it makes a link (this is for those that don't link) - mine was Dragon Tattoo book.

brightcopy @ 38

I've tried to use the work#::sometext and it will identify the correct work on the right side of the edit section. But upon saving it, the touchstone is no longer linked and just shows work#::sometext. It seems like it's doing something else behind the scenes that you can't replicate by just typing it in by hand.

that's exactly what i was seeing before (and mentioned in 16- you said it better). if you go back to edit the post again, it fixes the problem without you doing any work. so, there's a glitch in there somewhere, but it does work itself out.

The Motive, John Lescroart

test

It's fabulous, Tim, thanks. I edit entries a lot, so this is very helpful for something that has been a big pain in the derriere!

Tim, I don't know if you're back from your camping trip yet, but here's my problem.

I just edited a post with three touchstones in it, and when I saved, the touchstones did not stick - now what I see is the number::title with no brackets, and non-functional.

Test:
7995524::The Thoughtful Dresser

test: The Thoughtful Dresser

The Thoughtful Dresser

seems to work now.

When you have a work that won't touchstone, it seems to not work when you first do it, and then if you edit it, the second save makes a link.

I'm hoping you can help me sort out my problem with the new touchstones. I have a list of books on my 75 Books in 2010 Challenge group thread. When the touchstone changes took effect, it worked seamlessly for the first 10-12 titles in the list. But I lost the touchstones on all the rest. When I looked at the edit version, I saw all the numbers and had no idea what was going on. Eventually was led to the list.

In any case, I have tried removing the numbers and resubmitting, no touchstones. I have tried cutting the whole section, submitting, then pasting the list back in sans brackets, submitting, and then readding the brackets. Nothing.

What do I need to do to get them working again?

Is it just me, or were some visual changes recently made to the touchstone selection screen? It's the one you get when you click "others." I thought I remembered it having blue links just like the main touchstone screen, and now it has yellow flyover boxes. Maybe I'm imagining it and it was already like that.

Never seen a yellow flyover box. Last couple touchstones have come up with the right book so I haven't needed others. Will check others next time.

I just checked and the yellow highlight box has been there for at least a few weeks.

A new thing for me: did the scrollbar always cause the whole box to scroll, or did it just scroll the suggested books, the way I seem to remember it? It's a bit unnerving when the textbox scrolls away...

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

The text box has always scrolled away. I wish they would un-hook it from the touchstone list on the right.

No Yellow highlights for me.

FWIW, it's a very pale yellow. Nothing like the new comment notification yellow.

It's still pretty buggy on my 75 Books challenge list. Not least because I'd changed a lot of touchstones to html links.

Is there an upper limit to how many touchstones a single post can handle?

>54 joannasephine:

Shouldn't be.

I have found that since the change if one can't load, the rest of the post doesn't either. What seems to help for me is:

Remove the first not working touchstone.
Save.
Go back in and work on the one that was causing problems.

It is taking time to get them all work, but they do seem nice and stable once they are up.

> 47

You might not like this answer...

I had the same thing happen, did what you did (for one book only), and got no response. Then I removed the book title completely, saved that, and went back to select the correct book. That did the trick.

I'm not sure I'd be up for doing that with my entire "75-Books" challenge list, though. :/

>56 MarthaJeanne:, 57 Thank you! That did it. And I only had to fiddle with the first one, not all of them. Yea!

I'm very glad for you. I am doing one or two problems each time I put another book onto my challenge threads. I must have more problematical reading than you do.

54> Is there an upper limit to how many touchstones a single post can handle?

55> No

In practice, yes, at least before this change (I'm not sure to what extent this will affect things). Especially if you edit the post, it just takes so long for all the touchstones to load that it's impractical to include more than a couple dozen touchstones in a single post. People doing the Dewey and LC Challenges have noticed this, and most of us split up our lists into multiple posts accordingly.

>59 MarthaJeanne: Oh... I haven't added any books since I did the "big fix". Thanks for the warning...

on my 75 challenge thread

1.Once in a Lifetime by Cathy Kelly
2.544362::Still Life by Louise Penny
3.Through a Glass Darkly by Jostein Gaarder
4.4639300::Code Blue: A Katrina Physician's Memoir by Richard E. Deichmann M.D.

this is how it looks after I edit to add a book. I have tried just deleting the numbers and then I have no touchstone, despite the brackets.
I removed the numbers in quite a few of my books, so they now do not link to the book. I am not going to lost sleep over it but, it is a bit frustrating.

just sayin'

I'm finding that some just won't load. There are others, but any that include a -

Small-Batch Baking
Small Batch Baking

and it doen't seem to matter whether or not I use the - in the attempted touchstone. If it is in the book, it won't load.

http://www.librarything.com/work/31952/details/55894565

test

1. Once in a Lifetime by Cathy Kelly
2. Still Life by Louise Penny
3. Through a Glass Darkly by Jostein Gaarder
4. Code Blue: A Katrina Physician's Memoir by Richard E. Deichmann M.D.

update: edit. um. I bold test *nods*

now, edit.....

that is where the trouble starts...

Small-Batch Baking Crud!

2475502::Lord of the Flies

31952

Lord of the Flies

Small Bat Baking

*grin*

65> I still do not see the issue.

67>
test

Lord of the Flies

Small-Batch Baking

edit test: works

OK, so how did you do it?

Lemme try, lemme try...

small-batch baking

Well, the Touchstones: just said (loading) and stuck there.

#70

Now edit it. I had LotF working until the edit.

Did you use html for the baking book? That one gave me fits and I never could get it to work.

Okay, I have to try this:

Lord of the Flies
Small-Batch Baking

LotF loaded basically instantaneously. "Small-Batch Baking" hangs.

Sounds like fun...

Insectoid Nobleman
Small-Bat Baking
The Song that was Shipped

(Created by touchstoning "2475502::Insectoid Nobleman", "31952::Small-Bat Baking", "19136::The Song that was Shipped". Touchstones loaded without problem.)

Hmmm. It likes bats better than batches?

OK, that works. You can put the work number in by hand. Good. I have more problems to fix - tomorrow.

76> They link to "Lord of the Flies", "Small-Batch Baking" and "The Ship Who Sang". You can enter any text if you provide the work number.

77 78

So gone are the days of simple touchstones?
I can no longer just add my books read, touchstone them and be done?
I have to find and add a batch number which will show up any time I edit a post??? or it will show up if I do not add it?

I am missing something here. I think it is the improvment part.

79> You can still touchstone your books as usual. This is only a workaround for those few cases when touchstones don't work.

unless you edit

No editing fixes the problem. Its often a 2-3 step process with the wonky - won't touchstone books.

Add the number, save, then if it shows the number instead of a link, edit, wait for the touchstones to load on the right, and save again.

If the book you are working on is the first in a list then the others below it may not work until you fix the first one ( and if the others are wonky its 2 steps again)

Yes its an improvement because your touchstone will stick (once any problems are fixed) and you can force a touchstone for books that normally won't link at all.

I have some wonky ones.

In message 3 of this thread : http://www.librarything.com/topic/80437#1689605

Originally, the first one (All Over Coffee) had a broken touchstone and pasting in the Work Number worked great.

But when I did Can't Fail Color Schemes, The Recently Deflowered Girl, and Death and Taxes, they not only failed, but the broke the others in that sequence, whose touchstones had been working just fine before. (Think Color and The Youngest Lady in Waiting)

When I was first adding the Work Numbers, Can't Fail Color Schemes looked happy but the next two actually turned red. I saved anyway, not sure what that meant, and got the result you see now.

I did try the second save method but that didn't change anything.

Krstenn

from your list:

23. 56854268::Can't Fail Color Schemes : Kitchen & Bath by Amy Wax; 02/17, 4 stars

Is that this book ?

http://www.librarything.com/work/8718071

If so, the work # is 8718071. Could you be using the book # 56854268 ?

If not can you post the ISBN of the book you have.

24. 56851569::The Recently Deflowered Girl: The Right Thing to Say on Every Dubious Occasion by Hyacinth Phypps and Edward Gorey; 02/18, 3.5 stars

Is this your book:

http://www.librarything.com/work/8915127

If so the work# is 8915127, again I think you are using the book #

25. 56854530::Death and Taxes by David Dodge; 02/18, 3.5 stars

Is this your Book:

http://www.librarything.com/work/976020

Work# is 976020

26. 2439466::Think Color: Rooms to Live In by Tricia Guild; 02/20, 2.5 stars

Is this your book:

http://www.librarything.com/work/2439466

If so, you used the right number, so I think this should work once you fix the ones above it.

27. 3586565::The Youngest Lady in Waiting by Mara Kay; 02/28, 4 stars

Is this your book:
http://www.librarything.com/work/3586565

If so, you used the right number, so I think this should work once you fix the ones above it.

I think the touchstones only work with the work# which is the first number listed just after the work/ the number on the end is the book# and won't work right.

Though I could be completely wrong, but its the best answer I have.

For each book, I just took the work number from what was in my library. Is the issue that some of these have multiple work numbers (that's news) and we need to try them all to see what sticks?

The link in your library says www.librarything.com/work/xxxxx/book/yyyyy. Are you using the number that follows work (xxxxx) or the number that follows book (yyyyy)?

I'll have to look tonight.

There was definitely only one number to copy/paste from the links I was looking at. Not a x/y string.

Will just experiment from the search page.

Sorry, I'm just trying to understand this and experimenting a bit here 62230671dracula's guest.

ETA: Nope, I don't understand, but then I rarely have problems with touchstones stuff, so this is probably deeper than I need to go into the site.

There is no work with the number "62230671". At least I can't get anything to come up with that number.

Ah. But there is a book with that number. You put in the book number, you need to put in the work number.

http://www.librarything.com/work/884309/book/62230671

and

http://www.librarything.com/work/884309/

Touchstones use the work number, 8884309, instead of the book number, 62230671.

Also you need to use an open bracket, work number, ::, then work title, then close it all off with a close bracket.

dracula's guest

>87 kristenn:

I've noticed in the past there's several different urls. If there was only one number and you got to it by clicking around your library, it's probably the book number.

For example one of my books "The Books of Magic"...

Clicking on the "recently added" off my profile takes me to
http://www.librarything.com/work/book/61715211
which is the book number.

Clicking on the image on the work page with that url takes me to
http://www.librarything.com/work/5946/61715211

The 5946 is the work number.

If you instead look at the "Main page" link, that has the form
http://www.librarything.com/work/5946/book/61715211

I also have no clue why there's this variety.

* edited to add book title and actual link text in "Main page"

Trying again, since Mike and Jonathan were so nice as to explain. :)
Inherit the Earth

O.K. and am I understanding correctly when I say that the reason this is helpful is when you are having difficulty getting a touchstone to work?

Yup. Some folks where having issues with touchstones reverting when editing to a default choice or another one. This gives the system a clue as to what one you want with having to maintain less in memory. Or at least that's my guess.

I can see a couple of cases besides the "sticking/editing" issue I'll I'll probably use it in:

1) I've never liked when I've had to hunt through the touchstone interface. I'd rather do the normal search in librarything and do a bit of extra work than to hunt through a lot of possible touchstones for common titles.

2) when I want more control over how the title appears in my text. Like a url, this makes it so I can use what language I want and have the "linking" be done as a separate function.

So I could do something like mention the comic collection that most surprised me with how good it was. (Spoiler alert, click on the link to see what it was)

It will be very helpful to me to be able to set the touchstone myself in two cases.

A: Ones like Small-batch that won't set themselves.

B. Ones like Danielle Steel's Journey, where there is a loooong list of names including the word journey, so that the one I want is way down in the 100 work list. (I think it would be better if perfect matches came to the top of the list, and those too lazy or unsure of the title to put the actual title in had to search, but as it is, this is a big help.)

The feature was created so that if you had to choose a different work than the default for the touchstone, as in b above, that if you then edited the post again you wouldn't have to re-choose the right work. It's funny that so many people are using it to by-pass the work choosing dialog in the first place.

I'm not really bypassing the dialogue, just using this when the dialogue doesn't work.

Here's an example I attempted this morning.

Books Do Furnish a Room by Leslie-Geddes Brown

It actually links just fine here -- figures -- but it breaks on my thread. Prior to my pasting in what appears to be the work number (8426827), it was linking to the more-popular Anthony Powell title.

Edit: And has anyone else run into the problem with every touchstone (previously working) that comes after the broken one to suddenly break themselves? I still haven't figured out how to fix those.

Edit: Moving Pictures is another I can get to work here but is broken on the thread. Aggravating.

>96 kristenn: "Edit: And has anyone else run into the problem with every touchstone (previously working) that comes after the broken one to suddenly break themselves? I still haven't figured out how to fix those."

previously, if you fixed the first broken one, the following ones fixed themselves. perhaps something has changed if you are still having problems.

Thank you! (Belatedly).

So, more than a month after the problem was reported, has there been any consideration of making subsequent touchstones load when one fails? The workarounds are somewhat awkward and there are times when I'd just like to abandon the failed touchstone and move on.