Collections update: April 9

This is continued from "Collections: Update: April 6, 2009" (http://www.librarything.com/topic/61919), which included updates from the 7th and 8th.

Chris: Chris pushed the new work page—first by accident and then on purpose. The announcement is on http://www.librarything.com/topic/62134#1195274 . The new feature allows you to collapse and rearrange work-page sections. It isn't about collections, but it got tied up in it. Getting it out live frees us from entanglement of having to hobble and remove it when we pushed collections.

He's finishing up the collections stuff on the work page today.

Mike: I handed off a work-page-related feature to Mike that I'd like to see go live with or right before collections. That gets it off my plate anyway, which is good for me.

Tim: I'm finishing up some loose ends in the catalog. After a lot of advice (see http://www.librarything.com/topic/62128), I went ahead and chose a modified version of #2. The current version looks like this



This may not be perfect, but it's what's going live when collections do. I need to make all the buttons work tonight.

I'd like to release the new catalog—sans collections, but very much ready for it, Friday or over the weekend. It will give us a chance to work out the kinks, so that when collections arrive it won't be in the company of buggy and essentially unrelated newness.

Technical geekery: One of the cooler thing about the new catalog—and about a number of other pages, like works—is that the number of images loaded has been dramatically reduced. You may think that content-size is the main barrier to fast pages, but actually number of discrete requests is as bad or worse. The new catalog page loads a SINGLE image, which turns into many images through "sprites." You can see the current sprite image here: http://www.librarything.com/pics/c.png

Sum: We're making good progress. The daily meetings have been very productive. But I'd bet $10 that we won't release collections on Monday—no way. At least we're dribbling out features.

Also check out Luke's "Widget Statistics" feature (http://www.librarything.com/topic/62183). It's being released now that we have a few days data. I think it's rather awesome.

Thanks for the update.

I've a question, which is not clear to me from the screen shot: will I still be able to sort my library by the number of members owning a work? I use this quite often in combining.

Yes. It was discussed on the other thread. A sort-by menu or link will be available next to power-edit.

Thanks for keeping us updated and "dribbling" out features ahead of Collections - it's like hors d'ouvres.

3>

But we are not going to be able to sort by the number of members by clicking on the column head anymore?

Also, when you say "will be available", does that mean it will launch at the same time as the column change, or "soon" after?

I like it, but I don't understand what each of the Icons mean. I recognize Edit and Delete and Social Info, but what do the first 3 icons mean? If, by hovering over them, I'll get a hint, then don't bother with a large explanation; I'll be able to figure it out then.

Yeah, it'll be tool-tip-y.

6> at a guess, from left to right: work details, book details, collections, edit, delete.

I like the little blue boxes around the stats - makes the presentation a lot cleaner.

I'd like to release the new catalog—sans collections, but very much ready for it, Friday or over the weekend.

So more like Friday with the holiday weekend and all? I mean, you have eggs to hide...and locate...or something...

1 & 9 > yes visually this one is nicer. and having the stats in their own box mitigates the conceptual problem of action + info mixed together.

(although, at least on my screen, these look like newborn-pink and newborn-blue. i spent a lot of energy last year dissuading people from foisting those & similar baby pastels on us. i would hate to have so much of my daily life infested with them now.)

I like it a lot - can't wait to start playing with it. :)

6: Same here. I asked in the previous thread. I recognize book details (maybe) and edit and delete. The folder is collections (mentioned on previous thread). Does clicking on the book icon go to what is now the two heads icon, social info? Does clicking on the single head icon w/ number do anything or is it just information? And does clicking on the review icon w/ number go to a review page (mentioned in previous thread)? Not a big deal, can figure it out when it arrives, just curious.

Looks very nice.
Are those google and apple and those coloured cross images etc. on the sprite thing on there for any reason? Are they really all used?

looking good

I like it, but what is the number to the left ? is it popular rank ? If its count of books and reviews like the old one, I prefer the "/" between them rather than the ","

I like the pastels, soothing and cheery.

16> He used Harry Potter books. That's number of members - forty-one thousand, six hundred and forty-three. The reviews are the number after the word balloon.

17, Duh ! Thanks. I missed it.

Are those google and apple and those coloured cross images etc. on the sprite thing on there for any reason? Are they really all used?

Not yet. Some probably won't.

Just chiming in to request being part of BETA please!

Thanks for the updates and all the hard work. :)

Can books be added to multiple collections? And if so, how will that effect the number of books in your library?

>21 Thwaite: ArmyAngel
"Can books be added to multiple collections?"

Tim & Co. have said YES, a book can be in more than one collection.

"And if so, how will that effect the number of books in your library?"

I don't recall hearing anything specific on this question.

I think that it would count as one book.

"And if so, how will that effect the number of books in your library?"

It'll affect the number of books in each of your collections, and the total cataloged in any way.

25> Do you mean "...won't affect the total cataloged in any way?"

Well, adding a book to your wishlist only will change the total cataloged—it's anything cataloged in any way anywhere by you. But yeah, if you change a book from being in collection A to being in collection A and B, it won't change the total cataloged.

Thanks. I think that answers the question in #21.

Thanks for the answers.

Tim! What are you doing here? Go find Easter eggs!

I dreamed last night about Collections. Seriously. I need help.

No, you need collections! ;-)

I read the new blog post title: Let the Wild Rumpus Start!

And thought that collections had been released...untill I read the actual blog post...hehe...

> 32, me too! I felt very silly but don't know knowing I am not the only one!

So have the daily updates fallen by the wayside already ? Nothing for Monday ?

34: Easter Monday isn't a holiday in the US?

v

No. Good Friday isn't really a holiday either.

Update later. Got to play with lawyers this morning.

Cat playing with a mouse playing or tea party playing? 8^}

Vaneska: federal holiday no, but many places do close on Good Friday and Easter Monday.

Lquilter: I had a dream about collections last night, it was odd.

32, 33: yes, I was hopeful too... oh well.

It's funny how, when we're looking for something, everything seems to point that way.

Tim can guarantee readership for the blog just by using cryptic and/or provocative titles! We'll read every one - just in case.

When Tim does make the "Collections" post, what should the title be?

I'll start.

"On the eighth day, LT created Collections!"

Two Weeks Officially Declared Over

April 14 Update

Easter weekend did a number on us, as could be expected.

Chris and I are on collections. Mike and Luke are not, there being no good piece for them to work on, and some widget issues that are driving all of us crazy.

I'll ask Chris to follow this up with his own report. This report focuses on the catalog. We are very close to releasing the new catalog, with new graphics, a new sort feature and so forth. I want to get it out before collections, as it will surely need some work too. The collections part of the catalog is actually in very good shape. I hope I can release it tonight, late.

Chris?

That's a pretty good synopsis. The only major feature of the catalog that isn't done is the UI handling for showing currently reading after it is edited in-place. It's different that it was when I showed sample movies with the little drop-down view. Decisions were made. :) I'm working on all of this now.

Tim did the new toolpad and finished it yesterday. I attached collections menu handlers to that and synced it with the collections column if it exists in the view style so that if you change the menu in the toolpad it changes the contents of the collections cell.

We have some basic formatting issues to deal with and some reworking of how the breadcrumb text works when you search or are in someone else's library. After that I think that we can probably launch the new catalog with collections features hidden (but there).

After the catalog is out we have only a few small issues to deal with before releasing collections. And, well, the hours/days of testing.

juste par curiosité, what sort of "few small issues"?

Yeah, I don't think they'll be small when we look at them.

T

"Issues viewed through rose-colored spectacles are larger than they appear"

They never are. But if I don't tell myself that now I might just jump off a bridge. So, we only have "small issues" to deal with. :)

I try to live my life by the following, learned after 20 years in the Military:

"Don't sweat the small stuff - and it's all small stuff until they're actually shooting at you".

Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff.

>50 justjim:

The stuff they shoot's pretty small too, and moves too fast to really care about. Just ignore it.

In fact, when you're at sea, some of the stuff they can shoot at you is pretty darn big! But you're right... When is the LHC due to re-start?

53> justjim, for when it does: http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/

Robert

Yeah, got that one on RSS and the good bottle of Scotch ready for when it changes!

Ah, so what. Nobody will ever blame them, if it goes wrong.

BTW that excuse has been used before.

This is taken from "Mathematics on a Distant Planet" by R. W. Hamming, American Mathematical Monthly, Aug-Sept 1998, page 640:
But before going farther I need to mention a few things in my life that have shaped my opinions. The first occurred at Los Alamos during WWII when we were designing atomic bombs. Shortly before the first field test (you realize that no small scale experiment can be done -- either you have a critical mass or you do not), a man asked me to check some arithmetic he had done, and I agreed, thinking to fob it off on some subordinate. When I asked what it was, he said, "It is the probability that the test bomb will ignite the whole atmosphere." I decided I would check it myself! The next day when he came for the answers I remarked to him, "The arithmetic was apparently correct but I do not know about the formulas for the capture cross sections for oxygen and nitrogen -- after all, there could be no experiments at the needed energy levels." He replied, like a physicist talking to a mathematician, that he wanted me to check the arithmetic not the physics, and left. I said to myself, "What have you done, Hamming, you are involved in risking all of life that is known in the Universe, and you do not know much of an essential part?" I was pacing up and down the corridor when a friend asked me what was bothering me. I told him. His reply was: "Never mind, Hamming, no one will ever blame you." Yes, we risked all the life we knew of in the known universe on some mathematics. Mathematics is not merely an idle art form, it is an essential part of our society.

LHC? Not to worry :-)

Interesting changes to the catalogue this morning! It pays to be in the wrong time zone -- you get to see all sort of funny stuff.

Very convenient "Down Under" too.

Come and join in the fun here and here

"After the catalog is out we have only a few small issues to deal with before releasing collections. And, well, the hours/days of testing."

...weeeeeeeell? The catalog is out - any updates?

The catalog has been something of a trainwreck, with continual problems on FF2 and 3. We are still working on them.

60> I wouldn't call the catalog a trainwreck (albeit, admittedly, I'm not the one troubleshooting the problems!). Seems live a bevy of smaller-type issues, but certainly not a failure.

More like a couple of bent spokes on the bicycle wheel.

#59,

Tim and the guys have been putting out fires and tweaking the catalog. If you see some of the posts, its like they are working round the clock. They may still be at it, They have been under software pressure, and user pressure and have been responsive, and gracious. You might want to cut them some slack.

I am sure once they get the catalog settled, and get some sleep, they will continue with collections. We will all get through this together, and LT will be super spiffy when they are done.

Yep, we're still working on the catalog bit of that original prognostication. And once we get through it we really do only have a few small(ish) issues to address with collections. Mainly 'currently reading' related issues...the target keeps moving on that one.

Go on cD, say it, I double dog dare you! T@o W#%ks! ;)

Yeah. Probably two weeks. Sounds about right. :)

Oooh, Mr Tim, Mr Tim, Chris said the naughty words.

>64 Collectorator: I think there's a huge difference between following the discussions but complaining about specific changes, and ignoring all the discussions while continuing to ask "Are we there yet?" The former may not be "gracious", but at least it doesn't give the impression that the user thinks the developers' time is less valuable than her own. There are lots of relevant threads that the developers are actively participating in right now, so anyone who cares to put in a bit of time reading them can see how things are progressing.

I wasn't "ignoring the discussions" - I simply saw that this thread hadn't been updated ever since the new catalog and thought I'd ask what's going on and how are things progressing? I don't think I was impolite in any way by simply asking. I only have this thread starred so I wouldn't know what's going on on others. Is it so bad to ask for an update? I thought that was the purpose of this thread - correct me if I'm wrong.

I wasn't "ignoring the discussions"

I only have this thread starred so I wouldn't know what's going on on others.

Aren't these statements a bit contradictory?

There are 700+ messages about the new catalogue, and the discussions are still going on. I just think the polite thing would be to read the relevant threads for yourself to find out what's going on, rather than asking Tim to summarize it for you in the thread that you happen to be following.

Also, it's notoriously difficult to judge tone on the internet, but "...weeeeeeeell?" sounds a lot like whining.

oh come on!! the "weeeeell?" bothered you?
It was a simple question. I thought this thread was where updates are supposed to be posted, I saw no updates so I asked. End of story. Now if you love so much to be offended and act all insulted you can go ahead.

Now if you love so much to be offended and act all insulted you can go ahead.

This amuses me. Because of course you aren't acting offended and insulted at all.

I think we should stop now, we're giving LT a bad name. I feel like we're those people that fight all the time on threads and are mean to eachother for no apparent reason. Really, I was just asking a question. :)

You're right. No more of this :)

*warbles off-tunedly but with great sincere-ness*

All We Are Saying...Is Give Peace A Chance.

Bless you both.

Fair enough.

I didn't take any offense to the question. We're late to the party with Collections. The idea was that we were going to launch all of this catalog business with Collections but I'm glad that we broke it out. It delayed some finishing work on Collections but the gains were enormous. We've now had a chance to fix a lot of unforeseen problems. It will make the collections launch much smoother since we'll be dealing with very few (relatively) UI/browser issues.

We actually did push much of collections—it's using the logic, even if you can't change which collection things are in. Among other things, it surfaced that the collections code used some array logic that is super-slow in PHP.

> 78 and 79 --- I think these count as updates. Thanks so much! :-)

Re: cD saying "I'm glad that we broke it out. It delayed some finishing work on Collections but the gains were enormous."

It sounds like you guys made the right choice, and to hear that "the gains were enormous" is VERY good news.

Excellent, carry on! ;-)

Did you stop taking volunteers for the Beta group? I volunteered a bit upthread, and haven't heard anything. If you've maxed out, no problem! Was just curious.

81> Me too, though not sure if it was this thread or another thread. (please, beta, please?)

No. Chances are that we just happened to miss you. I'll add you.

Is the Beta group in action right now? Testing?

It's not being tested right now.

It's not being tested right now.

84>

No, there's been no release yet.

I've been following the threads dealing with the new catalogue, but I've not seen much mention of Collections in them. Are we back to "2 weeks"?