Combining/Separating (Please Fix This Book!) Request Thread #63

THIS THREAD is for LibraryThing Members, and especially for “beginners,” to ask help and learn about combining and separating specific LibraryThing Works.
-- If a book is combined with other, very different books.
-- If a book won’t combine with others just like it.
-- If problems with any Work are overwhelming, or maybe you just don’t have time.

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WHEN YOU POST:
-- Please give Titles, Authors, hyperlinks, and other information that will help.
-- If you post multiple requests at once, please number each group. Examples:

“Please combine:
#1: The Story of the Life of You
http://www.librarything.com/work/AAAAAAAA
http://www.librarything.com/work/BBBBBBBB
#2: The Story of the Life of Everyone Else
http://www.librarything.com/work/XXXXXXXX
http://www.librarything.com/work/YYYYYYYY
http://www.librarything.com/work/ZZZZZZZZ ”

-- Ask about sets of Works or Series pages, ask for opinions, or ask for help with specific languages, subjects, etc.; but please be brief.
-- Please do not give Search pages, Author pages, or groups of “possibles,” unless you have a specific question.
-- “Someone will be with you shortly.” Most requests are handled by our fellow LibraryThing Members, not by staff.
-- If you add to a post, please use “ETA:” or “EDIT:” to show what’s new.
-- Please note when a request is “DONE.”

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NOTES:
-- If two works have more than 200 records each, LibraryThing staff may need to do the combining. Please post these requests to: http://www.librarything.com/topic/95602 .
-- For information and discussion, but not problems, please see the Combiner’s Group Information, FAQ & Discussion Thread: http://www.librarything.com/topic/57164 .
-- For the related wiki page, please see: http://www.librarything.com/wiki/index.php/Book_combining .
-- Please note Tim’s Guidelines for Proper Etiquette for Contacting Members about Book Records at http://www.librarything.com/topic/30795#469616 ; if you contact another Member, please use Private Comment.
-- When this thread reaches 200 posts, please do not post here but start a new Thread. Threads under 200 posts load faster and are easier to navigate. Please copy these notes as post #1 of the new thread. Thank you.

Here's a difficult one.
The Golden Age of Science Fiction: The Novels

http://www.librarything.com/work/12250427 is a mishmash of apparently four different books. Most of the editions are 0 copies. And not an ISBN in sight.

http://www.librarything.com/work/15065962/editions
0 copy of vol. 3
http://www.librarything.com/work/15065960
vol 3

Reference: http://www.librarything.com/topic/109828#4718992

There were also Short Stories editions in there, but I was able to separate and recombine those.

I've recently separated Atala, a novella about an American Indian maiden, from Atala. René, which combines Atala with a second novella, René. LibraryThing isn't having it. It shows them as separate works on the author page, François-René de Chateaubriand, but as you can see from the touchstones, it doesn't really distinguish the works. I've defined work relationships. I've written disambiguations in Common Knowledge. I've deleted and re-added my copy of Atala. Rien.

Work: Atala
http://www.librarything.com/work/15048314

Work: René
http://www.librarything.com/work/3153897

Work: Atala. René
http://www.librarything.com/work/176196/

Book: Atala, incorrectly classed as Atala. René
http://www.librarything.com/work/176196/book/109517763

Touchstones won't show changes right away.

Deleting and reentering leaves 0 copy editions that make it harder to get everything combined properly.

I've now done a lot of separating and recombining, but this kind of thing will always be inaccurate because of the way people enter books. In general we trust titles more than ISBNs, but I suspect that a lot of copies with the title Atala inclde other things.

Note: The last URL will give false results. The book is now at http://www.librarything.com/work/15048314/109517763

I worked through all the editions with copies.

#2 by @MarthaJeanne>

I've done what I can, but it was pretty much just shuffling around the zero-copy editions.

https://www.librarything.com/series/The+Golden+Age+of+Science+Fiction%2C+The+Nov...

there's still some 0copy editions coming up as combination potentials, at least in the vol2 editions page.

>2 MarthaJeanne:, 5, 6: There's both novels and stories in more or less conformed, multi-volume "Halcyon Classics" editions. I've lumped them under http://www.librarything.com/series/The+Golden+Age+of+Science+Fiction, but the Series naming, the volume/title naming(s), and the combinations all still need work. I'll get back to it ASAP -- unless y'all beat me to it. Thanks!

> 3,4

Thanks, MarthaJeanne. I used ISBNs earlier to tease out copies of Atala from Atala+René. Was chagrined to find that one of these is associated with a cover that lists both titles — so I'm afraid I made more work for you than was necessary.

I will not delete and re-add titles in the future.

Have waited to add an English translation of Atala to my library. Hoping it will be associated with the right work now.

If it's not, just let us know, and we'll get it straightened out.

I was dumbfounded to learn from a member's profile that I share with him this book:

http://www.librarything.com/work/120292/64720717

When I clicked 'edit' on work page hoping to find out what was amiss, the book that showed then was indeed one I own:

http://www.librarything.com/work/120292

I can see that the first 6 digits in url of first book are those of the second, but I've not a clue how to set things right, because all editions of Korean Hill Wars seem to be ones of The Winners.

>10 bluepiano: Found it!

Strange... the first URL in your message contains a work number (120292) and a book number (64720717) which does not belong to that work. It's not a valid URL.

If you go to http://www.librarything.com/work/120292/64720717, edit the URL in the address box of your browser to be http://www.librarything.com/work/book/64720717 (which eliminates the reference to the other work) then click on the "Work-only work page" link on the right, you end up at http://www.librarything.com/work/15070310 which is the correct work for Hill Wars Of The Korean Conflict.

So the bug is in wherever you got that first URL from.

Edit: unless MarthaJeanne just split the book off from the initial work while I was looking at it...

Yup.

There are still a couple of editions in there with the same ISBN.

#2 by @MarthaJeanne> So how's these look?

http://www.librarything.com/series/Halcyon+Classics%2C+The+Golden+Age+of+Science... and

http://www.librarything.com/series/Halcyon+Classics%2C+The+Golden+Age+of+Science...

I really know nothing about these books. Just moved it here from the other group when I couldn't help.

>12 r.orrison: and 13: Thanks.--I began to wonder how many people owned a dictionary of hills in Korea, so hit my first link again. I noticed that though the title and cover now match, everything else on the Korean Hills page still refers to The Winners. I don't know whether that's a problem but thought I should mention it. Cheers.

For someone with lots of time, knowledge and patience:

https://www.librarything.com/work/239835
(The Perfumed Garden)

Having had a look at the work-to-work relationships, it seems that quite a few abbreviations and adaptions have been erroneously combined into the main work.

Thanks and good luck ;)

>16 bluepiano: the first link is no longer valid. you can put any work and book numbers together and get a mash of the two.

Is there some reason that these editions of War and Peace http://www.librarything.com/work/14381781/editions are being kept separate from these editions http://www.librarything.com/work/995/editions/55725902 ?

The former are currently headed "Vintage Classics" but include Oxford, Signet etc -- so, different translations; and the latter is also a mix of translations -- also including the Oxford Classics. There is no disambig notice on the former, and the one on the latter doesn't seem to apply, though its reference to "single volumes" is, well, ambiguous, and might be taken by some to refer to "one-volume" editions, where instead it must mean "single volumes from a multi-volume edition".

The smaller work seems to have 'condensed' around a single ISBN. (Whatever the titles say, there is only one ISBN there.) That ISBN is for a specific translation, but that is not a reason to keep it separate. However, this is not a simple combination, as both works are well over 200.

I don't think the Disambiguation notice is at all ambiguous.

'This is the complete work "War and Peace" by Leo Tolstoy. Do not combine with single volumes of the work, or with abridgments of the work.'

>20 MarthaJeanne:
What's the process for combining qtys of over 200? Do we have to message someone? And do you agree that, qty aside, these should just be combined?

As to the notice, true it's ultimately not fatally ambiguous -- after all I was capable of understanding it and I'd had only one cup of coffee -- but I pointed out what I thought was the potentially misleading part of it:
{I}ts reference to "single volumes"... might be taken by some to refer to "one-volume" editions, where instead it must mean "single volumes from a multi-volume edition". So I suggest it be emended to read
'This is the complete work "War and Peace" by Leo Tolstoy. Do not combine with single volumes from a multi-volume edition of the work, or with abridgments of the work.' But I won't insist. (There's also some sort of weird italic duplication of the notice going on.)

>20 MarthaJeanne: I think Do not combine with individual volumes of the work would be clearer.

>22 jjwilson61: I think it would be even clearer if it said Do not combine with individual volumes of a multi-volume edition; otherwise it sounds like entire-work-in-one-volume editions should be separate.

>21 Crypto-Willobie: The weird italic duplication of the disambiguation is because a disambiguation was also entered on another language site. If the same disambig is entered under two different languages, it will display as you describe.

Maybe, but if you start getting too wordy then peoples eyes glaze over and they stop reading it.

>21 Crypto-Willobie: You can put a message in http://www.librarything.com/topic/129366

Btw, I did combine them.

>25 henkl:
Thanks, henkl.
{time passes}
I've done that now.

I just combined Navidad & Matanza with Navidad y Matanza, as seen on this page: http://www.librarything.com/work/14741538.

However, after I did this, this title disappeared from the author page, http://www.librarything.com/author/labbcarlos.

This has never happened to me before, and I can't figure out how to fix it.

>28 Collectorator:. Thank you and not sure about the other author. Will have to check my book when I get home tonight.

>28 Collectorator: Thanks for noticing jcarloslabbe. Based on the author description in my book, which says he wrote essays on Bolano and others, I've combined them. And thanks again for combining the authors; I missed that, but will look for it in the future.

Please combine:
http://www.librarything.com/work/6552612/
http://www.librarything.com/work/1602324/
http://www.librarything.com/work/2108001
(correct editor/fotograf is Urs F. Widmer)

>32 Collectorator: could you please put the Urs F. Widmer as editor again? Some books were as Urs Widmer catalogued, and now Urs F. Widmer has no books anymore http://www.librarything.com/author/widmerursf
which is sad....

Well, it doesn't work like that. Because some people put the 'wrong' name (Urs instead of Urs F.) in when cataloguing, the book landed now with the author Urs Widmer and the fotografer goes empty.... How can I solve that?

Okay, I added a dozen German and a French copy of Lechuguilla and now Urs F. has the majority and it stays in his 'domain'. What do I do with all the additional copies of the same book? I am afraid that Urs F. loses his book when I delete them ... ah well

The better way would be to split Urs and then alias to Urs F.

Note to self or whoever may want : When Search has settled down in a while, track down all scattered copies of "Le Livre d'Or de la Science-Fiction : Le Monde des Chimères", and redo editor+contributors/content that went bye-bye when I had to separate it from Le Livre d'Or de la Science-Fiction : Michael Moorcock

Done.

On the page of covers to chose from for The Bridge Over the River Kwai is an orphan cover for The Gulag Archipelago, which needs to be removed.

https://www.librarything.com/work/49632/covers/109843824

Thank you.

42SaintSunniva: We can't "remove" covers, but we can flag them as inapplicable to the Work - which I've done. Thank you!

Please combine the following versions of the Chronicle of Novgorod:

http://www.librarything.com/work/11780829
http://www.librarything.com/work/2575934
http://www.librarything.com/work/1556811

Thanks in advance!

>44 AndreasJ: Done.

I found another Urs Widmer and therefore split that author. http://www.librarything.de/author/widmerurs But how is it possible that now it says: 'Urs Widmer (2) : Urs F. Widmer' Who/What put that Urs F. in there? I never split Urs into Urs and Urs F.. How can I delete that wrong connection?
(Urs F. is someone else: a Swiss fotografer, and I got that away by multiplying my books by him)

>47 Collectorator: Thanks a lot, it looks good now. I did that, but apparently didn't have enough patience to wait for LT's reaction....

Could someone please combine:

http://www.librarything.de/work/3763111 and
http://www.librarything.de/work/11747257

I already combined dozens of Merian magazines in the past few days (only those that are realyl identical, of course, not those of the same title, but from different years), but with these two I just don't seem to be able to succeed.

William Hope Hodgson's Carnacki the Ghost Finder stories were collected (six stories total) and published in his lifetime, then he wrote three more stories that went uncollected until after his death when an edition came out collecting all nine stories. Right now both collections (6 & 9 stories) are all combined in one. Should they be? I have The Casebook of Carnacki the Ghost Finder (book 109645177) which has all 9 stories. I'm not so sure I know how to figure out the contents of other editions.

> 51: "I'm not so sure I know how to figure out the contents of other editions."

And therein lies the problem. If you can figure out some but not all, perhaps by their ISBN or publication dates (if given), consider separating them into three Works, distinguished by Canonical Title appendages (see below) with sufficiently descriptive Disambiguation Notices among the Common Knowledge on their respective Main Pages. You might describe the three as "{6 stories}," "{9 stories}," and "{unspecified}."

Perhaps other Combiners have better suggestions? Thank you all!

I see he died in 1918, so how likely is it that someone has cataloged an edition that was published before then? At the very least you can assume that anything with an ISBN has all 9 stories.

>53 jjwilson61: They are still publishing volumes with only 6 stories as well as volumes with all 9 stories. I had to check carefully when I was purchasing mine to get all of the stories. I will see what I can figure out about the various editions tomorrow, when I'm fresh. It could be that the ones titled (original title) Carnacki the Ghost Finder are the 6-story collections, and the ones titled The Casebook of Carnacki the Ghost Finder are the 9-story collections. (Wouldn't it be lovely if it was that simple. But I won't assume, I'll research/check.)

Not sure what the problem is here. I don't see any combination issues.

http://www.librarything.com/author/doolittlehdhilda/issues

>55 barney67: Done. You had to look at the Dutch. That page doesn't show it anymore, so look at http://www.librarything.com/author/aldingtonrichard.

At the top of the CK you see
English (16) German (1) — 51 more
If you click on the German (besides the things carried over from English) you notice that occupations have been filled in. Well, on her page gender had been filled in on the Dutch page.

>53 jjwilson61: In the 21st century, copies of pre-1923 editions of books are all over the place. My Kindle version, I'm sure, is a copy of the original, though without table of contents, it's hard to check.

Not sure why I can't combine the two pages of this book, as they both link to the same author:

https://www.librarything.com/work/12387851
https://www.librarything.com/work/93429
https://www.librarything.com/author/gunesekeraromesh

Would somebody who knows what they are doing be kind enough to fix this for me?

>58 Moomin_Mama: Done.

It's not enough for your copy to be listed as having the author, the work needs to have the author attatched. In this case the work your copy was in was listed as having no primary author.

Either try recalculating the title/author or use the other authors bit on the main work page. If you do that you will also have to remove the extra copy of the author name after combining.

Hi,
last year, a new version of an Erich Kästner book I own , "Fabian", has been republished as "Der Gang vor die Hunde". This edition not only contains additional material, but is, most of all, enhanced with passages from the only recently discovered original manuscript which had to be removed by Kästner due to censorship issues. This edition was separate until now (because only insiders knew that the story was "Fabian"); I had briefly considered combining it into the "main work", but had decided not to. Now someone else did and I wonder: should this be a separate work, or is the main story reason enough for them to belong together?
https://www.librarything.com/work/740626

This same question goes for another book, "Niemand stirbt für sich allein" by Hans Fallada, where even larger passages were added after republication. The tricky thing here is, that they all bear the same title, but it would be possible to distinguish!
https://www.librarything.com/work/1453366

Any advice?
Thanks!

>60 leselotte:

I tend to be pragmatic about these things. They should probably both be kept separate, but I would concentrate my efforts on the first one. The chances of keeping them really separate are much greater.

You also need to consider where the translations go. Are there newer ones that belong with the newer German editions or are they all translations of the older edition?

Don't forget to put in disambiguation notices, work-to-work information, etc.

>61 MarthaJeanne: MarthaJeanne:

Thanks!
I separated the Kästner work and added a disambiguation notice. All translations should certainly stay with the main work.

I'm still thinking about Fallada. I think I will separate there, too. The Fallada has an interesting bit of edition history: only because the work was translated into English some time around 2002 and became a huge success there (thank you, New York Times!), did the German Fallada publisher release the complete version in German. There should only be 3 ISBNs associated with the new, complete German text. All English copies of the text are without doubt uncut as well. Shouldn't be a problem finding out for other languages. Most recent publications will be uncut, too (similar cover images reinforce my suspicion).

I'll deal with it when I have a little more time!

>62 leselotte:

I was the 'lumper'* who combined the Kästners, but I wouldn't have proceeded if there had been a disambiguation notice at the time.

I do think Naar de haaien, the most recent Dutch translation, belongs with Der Gang vor die Hunde as per this page from the Dutch national library: http://opc4.kb.nl/DB=1/SET=2/TTL=5/SHW?FRST=1

*If I had owned the (newer) book myself, I would have preferred to be connected with the 'main' (older) version. To me they are the same work. I feel the same about the Fallada (which I do own), and about Sister Carrie and Sister Carrie : The unexpurgated edition for that matter, but I'm not fanatical about it ;-)

It would be so nice if the work to work relationships really did anything. Or if we had the often mentioned 'edition level'.

> 60-63: In addition to Disambiguation Notices, I find Work-to-Work Relationships (located on the Work's Main Page, generally between Other Authors and Common Knowledge) to be very be helpful in such cases. Using the example of these Erich Kästner editions, we would note "Fabian is contained in Der Gang vor die Hunde." For Works having substantially the same titles on their original publication and expanded edition, like Hans Fallada's Every Man Dies Alone, some clarifying addition to a Cannonical Title among the CK fields can help too; similar examples include the "uncut" versions of Stephen King's The Stand and Robert Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land. Thanks for your help!

ETA "> 64: Yeah; what she said."

>65 jasbro: Isn't there an 'is an expanded version of' setting that would be better?

Hi stortemelk!
Be assured, I did not consider this "lumping" ;) Like I said, I had considered combination before, but decided to just wait and see. When I did see the combination (because "Fabian" covers showed up in my "Recent covers"), I decided that I leaned more towards separating after all, because I own the "old" "Fabian" as well (hidden in an anthology, so it doesn't show up in my library) and I consider the reading experience of "Der Gang vor die Hunde" quite different because the main story is the same, yes, but it's interesting to see what was censored, changed and left out, and those small passages have some pizzazz! Plus, like I said in the disambiguation notice, there are almost 100 pages of extra material.

Even larger passages have been added into the new Fallada edition. So while I would still like to be connected to people having read the main book, I'm even more interested to see who owns the new versions! As for the cocktail party rule, owning old and new versions would make for different conversations!

Editions layer, pretty, please?

>64 MarthaJeanne: and following: please bear with me, I'm a slow writer!

Okay, I added a work-to-work relationship for Kästner as well. I chose "expanded version".
I have to confess I don't do too much with those relationships because they don't do anything (yet).

We did it at the same time, so I had to delete mine.

You've got me curious. Fabian is in the set of Kästner I bought earlier this year, but have not yet read, and the library has Der Gang vor die Hunde ...

Aaaaaaahh! the list of things I really, really want to read is growing faster than I can get through them.

>60 leselotte: This edition not only contains additional material, but is, most of all, enhanced with passages from the only recently discovered original manuscript which had to be removed by Kästner due to censorship issues.

What do you mean by additional material? Does it include anything that might have been separately published?

The publisher's description says 'word for word reconstructed, and with a comprehensive afterword.' (Wort für Wort rekonstruiert und mit einem umfassenden Nachwort)

My copy of the old version is under 200 pages. The new edition is over 300.

Some of the chapter headings are the same, some are quite different.

The list of changes is 24 pages long ie over 10% of the text proper.

>62 leselotte: I separated the Kästner work and added a disambiguation notice. All translations should certainly stay with the main work.

If the original and new versions are different enough to be separated, translations thereof should be likewise separated. That's the concept of the translation rule. If the English versions are uncut, they should be combined with the uncut version of the original.

(To call upon another example, I own a copy of the last edition of Dracula oversaw by Stoker, and abridged by him. I don't know if it ever saw translation historically; it was intended to be the source of the Icelandic translation. And thus that Icelandic translation should be combined with this English edition of Dracula, not the main one.)

The new edition in German was just published last year. The editions published in English in the past year or two are a translation done in 1990. It will take time to publish a new translation with a new edition of the old one recently published.

> 66: Sure, "an expanded version of" works too, and probably better -- especially if the edition in question says it's "expanded." Thanks for noting that!

It'd be more correct to call the old version an abridgement.

>76 JerryMmm: Hmm, not sure about that. Kästner did take out some passages, but he also rewrote and toned down some parts he know wouldn't escape censorship. He wanted the story published, so had to make some amendments in order to do so. It feels strange to me calling that an "abridgement". Or maybe it doesn't translate too well for me (as I'm not a native speaker).
I'm very content with "extended edition", because I have no idea whether the new text will be published in other languages. Even in Germany, I think the "old" text will remain the standard edition, as this is the way it was originally published.

Please could someone combine:
http://www.librarything.com/work/10827135 &
http://www.librarything.com/work/14720059 (no author)

Sorry - don't know how to...

>78 Lman: Done.

>79 henkl:
Thank you. :)

Thanks for your previous help.

Could someone please combine:

http://www.librarything.de/work/15115247 with
http://www.librarything.de/work/2391868

(both about the "Truffaut" book in the "Reihe Film", with varying ISBN numbers because of different editions)

and, as a second request, combine

http://www.librarything.de/work/7997608 with
http://www.librarything.de/work/8023320

(both about the "Visconti" book in the "Reihe Film")

Thanks in advance.

I am confused....

This work is "Dreadnaught" by Jack Campbell, but is coming up as "Steadfast" (a much more recent title in the series that just came out in May 2014): http://www.librarything.com/work/10928551

"Dreadnaught" is the one listed on the author page (http://www.librarything.com/work/10928551) under "Steadfast" with 251 copies, and the real "Steadfast" is the one listed with 24 copies.

Can someone get the right title onto Dreadnaught?

Thanks in advance.

Someone had put in the wrong canonical title.

>83 2wonderY:

Thanks!

>81 AndreasP: Done.

I tried to combine these authors, but it just won't take. Please help.
https://www.librarything.com/author/121860122
https://www.librarything.com/author/4088485960

I think I've done it, but please check that it is right.

https://www.librarything.com/author/4088485960&merge=1

http://www.librarything.com/work/5849791

http://www.librarything.com/work/981755

http://www.librarything.com/work/3616683

http://www.librarything.com/work/3616674

http://www.librarything.com/work/8524176

http://www.librarything.com/work/8280371

Same author with various names/spellings for all these, different editors, & for all I know some of these are abridgements. Additionally, these:

http://www.librarything.com/work/15008394

http://www.librarything.com/work/5752777
.
could possibly also be the Chronicles. I won't attempt it; I'd miss the match.

Not a question re combining, but are books with basic similarities from a publisher to be deemed a series even when the publisher doesn't specify them as belonging to one? e.g.,

http://www.librarything.com/work/1840557

http://www.librarything.com/work/5128600

and so on.

Thanks once again. Up Costa Rica.

they sure look like a series

#88 by @bluepiano> I've combined your first four into From Saint Francis to Dante: Translations from the Chronicle of the Franciscan Salimbene, and the last two into The chronicle of Salimbene de Adam, which I hope is what you meant. (It looks right anyway.) I've also combined a number of name variants that appear to point to the same Salimbene di Adam, and added the Wikipedia author page link.

I've not combined either of the second two, because (a) I'm unable to tell whether the first is the same as either of the two from your first list, and (b) I think the second instance is a particular Member's "title" record of the Author's name only. (I've come across it before with other authors, but never really understood why this Member does it, or how it might be helpful either to him or to us.)

And I agree with JerryMmm; the "Impressions" give me the impression of a Series too. (Yeah, sorry; but I DID mean to say that ... .)

Please combine
http://www.librarything.com/author/sagerwalterade
http://www.librarything.com/author/desagerwaltera

Thank you!

>91 SaintSunniva: Done

Please place this book
Rabbit Rambles On by Susanna Gretz
https://www.librarything.com/work/5191395/editions/110295588
(too many with author only saying Gretz)
on this author page:
https://www.librarything.com/author/gretzsusanna

Hi, could someone please combine the following?

https://www.librarything.com/work/11244695

https://www.librarything.com/work/12595938

https://www.librarything.com/work/12918122

https://www.librarything.com/work/4180164

https://www.librarything.com/work/2447559

https://www.librarything.com/work/543271

https://www.librarything.com/work/543271

https://www.librarything.com/work/2293182

https://www.librarything.com/work/67814

Thanks a lot.

>96 Collectorator:

Terrific, thanks a bunch!

>59 MarthaJeanne:: Many thanks x

This is one that I hit when adding books, where two volume sets, each volume individually, and a two-in-one volume were getting conflated in confusing lumps. (Yes, the two volume sets and all-in-one edition should probably be together--there is an edition difference, but down that road lies insanity.) For all those who like Library of Congress data, I put it the ISBN for one volume and got back a record from the LoC for the two volume set.

There's the two volume set:
http://www.librarything.com/work/115891 Norton Anthology of World Masterpieces, Volume 1
http://www.librarything.com/work/933053 The Norton anthology of world masterpieces, Volume II

This should be the unambiguously two-volume in one version
http://www.librarything.com/work/10250952

There's the ambiguous pile of works, some one volume, some another, some the two volume in one, most unclear.
http://www.librarything.com/work/83447

This is an older edition with a different name, with similar problems. There are of course many editions of this, but it's bad enough already to try and separate out ones named The Norton Anthology of World Masterpieces based on edition.
http://www.librarything.com/work/9861278

There's a number of other works floating around. I tried to get all the clear single volume ones out of the ambiguous pile of editions, but ultimately I just wanted my books in.

I am having a problem with covers. I have separated http://www.librarything.com/work/15141044 "Fairweather" from http://www.librarything.com/work/8384551 "Ian Fairweather" but one of the "Ian Fairweather" covers is now displaying in the "Fairweather" work page, http://www.librarything.com/work/15141044/covers/110440976 It is an Amazon cover so I can't flag it. Can someone fix this or let me know how I can fix it?

I'm only seeing one cover for each Work. I've recalculated editions, Titles/Authors, and Covers. It may be that somebody's used an ISBN for one in a record for the other, which will pick up the Amazon cover regardless. If it's still not right now, let's see what settles out over the next hour or day. Thanks.

>101 jasbro: Time has not helped, the problem is both covers belong to "Ian Fairweather" http://www.librarything.com/work/8384551, since posting I have added a cover for "Fairweather" http://www.librarything.com/work/15141044 so you will now see three covers.

http://www.librarything.com/work/15141044/covers/110440976 does not belong to work 15141044 and should be linked to http://www.librarything.com/work/8384551

The following are all the same work:

http://www.librarything.com/work/14236477
http://www.librarything.com/work/14635590
http://www.librarything.com/work/14243117

Could you please combine them?

Thanks

Hi, could someone please combine:

https://www.librarything.com/work/2168396/editions

and

https://www.librarything.com/work/15146762/book/110522102

Thanks!

ISBN 0234777354 seems to be associated with two works:

The Hugo Winners: Volume One (1955-1961) https://www.librarything.com/work/6921911 which is correct (I've got a copy in my hand),
and The Hugo Winners: Volumes One and Two (1955-1970) https://www.librarything.com/work/564005 which is incorrect.

It looks like there's also a bit of a mess involving Vol 1 and the Vol 1 + 2 omnibus, and the result is that Vol 1 is scattered over a number of works that ought to be combined into one:

https://www.librarything.com/commonknowledge/search.php?q=The+Hugo+Winners%3A+Vo...

Could someone sort this out, please?

Data in other people's catalogues can be wrong, but neither you nor I can do anything about it.

If you find specific works that need combining, please post the links to those works.

The search link yields these three that could use combining:

https://www.librarything.com/work/6921911
https://www.librarything.com/work/15147083
https://www.librarything.com/work/15147084

Thanks!

>101 jasbro:
Can this be fixed?

#110 by @Mrs_Frankweiler> I apologize for my delay responding. To my knowledge, the only ways to address an incorrect Amazon cover on an LT Work record are: where the cover is linked due to an inapplicable ISBN used with a Member's record, for that Member to edit his or her individual catalog entry; or, where Amazon plainly has an incorrect cover tied to the given Work on its own site, to report the error to Amazon and advise them of the correction that's needed. (I've never tried contacting Amazon, but other in the Combiners group may have insight on how.) Perhaps other Combiners have a further alternative. Thank you!

>110 Rockingham-16: I saw two different covers on http://www.librarything.com/work/15141044 and both belong to a book with the title 'Fairweather'. However, they seem to be different books. One is about the author, published in 2009, the other is an exhibition catalogue from 1994.

I have separated them and will put in disambiguation notices.

>112 MarthaJeanne: FWIW, I see only one cover associated with that work.

Yes, sometimes I saw it, sometimes I didn't.

We now have http://www.librarything.com/work/15150673/summary, which is the catalogue, and I have put in a canonical title to help keep things straight.

http://www.librarything.com/work/15141044 which is the 2009 edition of the biography. Title is "Fairweather".

http://www.librarything.com/work/8384551 which is the 1981 edition of the biography. Title is "Ian Fairweather".

Without more information, I would not want to combine the two biographies. The newer one seems to be a revised version of the earlier one, but is longer and I would expect a recent art book to have much better illustrations whether or not the text has changed much. Since there is no 'revision of' I have put in a work-to-work relationship of 'expanded version'.

I think this would have been cleared up a lot earlier if the poster had said that there are two books called 'Fairweather', because I had looked a few times, seen different covers both saying just that, and hadn't looked further.

>114 MarthaJeanne: As I explained in my original post, there are two works: one is a biography called "Ian Fairweather" http://www.librarything.com/work/8384551 and the other is a catalogue called "Fairweather" http://www.librarything.com/work/15141044. I have both works on the desk next to me.
Thank-you, this seems to have fixed the image issue.

No. There are three works, and two of them are called Fairweather. The 2009 biography is not titled 'Ian Fairweather'. It is just titled 'Fairweather'.

It was not a cover issue, it was that two works by the same author with the same title had been combined. Your second link does not point to the catalogue, but to the 2009 biography.

The author page for Lois Donaldson,
http://www.librarything.com/author/donaldsonlois
should include this work,
http://www.librarything.com/work/15143613

I'm hoping this is a simple fix, but maybe it's a bug:

This series page http://www.librarything.com/series/Pictured+Geographies
does not list authors for two titles, even though the page for each work has the author on it.
(Bolivia is by Bernadine Bailey, and Paraguay is by Lois Donaldson.)

Thank you!

>117 SaintSunniva: All I had to do was recalculate title/author.

In both cases the work didn't have the author. I suspect that you entered the books without the author, and then added it. The work should eventually update itself, but if it doesn't, recalculate takes care of it. It is easier for others to see this, as your work page has your information, not the information for the work.

>118 MarthaJeanne: ......hmmm. The work still isn't on Lois Donaldson's page, even though I recalculated the author, too.
http://www.librarything.com/author/donaldsonlois&recalculate=1&check=405...

Hopefully in a day or two it will resolve itself.

I see it there.

As do I, but it wasn't there a few minutes ago!

I never can remember how to combine books without authors. I'd like these two combined:
http://www.librarything.com/work/15103495
http://www.librarything.com/work/4688941
Thanks!

>122 wester: Done

http://www.librarything.com/work/11302157
http://www.librarything.com/work/6365080

I recalculated, and now both show the same author, but the one I changed isn't showing on the author page.

Got it by adding the author again.

(There is an enormous amount of satisfaction in finding someone else with the same very obscure book, even if is a private member.)

Hello, could you please combine:

https://www.librarything.com/work/624559

and

https://www.librarything.com/work/1797732/book/80164297

Thank you very much.

>125 LolaWalser: done

Quik-Fix special! :) Thanks!

Hi, I'm going nuts trying to combine the following. I need someone smarter than me to do it!

National Geographic Magazine 1968 v134 #4 October
https://www.librarything.com/work/15166538
https://www.librarything.com/work/8658352

Thanks.

>128 rodneyvc: Done. They were both on the National Geographic author page.

For some reason, these two works

https://www.librarything.com/work/1756292/book/110677809
https://www.librarything.com/work/6056019/book/110677948

did not autocombine with the Series
https://www.librarything.com/series/Time-Life%3A+The+Good+Cook

Can anyone help? Thank you!

>131 Collectorator: Thank you!

Can anyone figure out why this book https://www.librarything.com/work/13288980/book/92118196 doesn't show up on the author page? I must be dim tonight.

>133 MarthaJeanne: It's there now.

Thank you. I was getting an empty page last night. It bothered me. If my book is on a different author page, there might be another copy there, too.

I'm in the process of rechecking all my singletons, and each page of thirty is coming up with 1-3 combinations, not to mention various other problems, and other combinations that I see on the way. Time sink, but useful enough that I want to finish.

Take a look at these:
http://www.librarything.com/work/7950252
http://www.librarything.com/work/15182068

The other page is a set of zero-copy editions. I have checked that they are Finnish translations of The Narrow Corner. I just can't combine them with the main work by usual means, and I am not sure that extra work with 0-copy editions is worth the effort. Should they generally be combined or not?

They should defintely be combined, so I did combine them.

Please combine these "0" copies:

http://www.librarything.com/work/15186086
http://www.librarything.com/work/15186113
http://www.librarything.com/work/15186119
http://www.librarything.com/work/15186122
http://www.librarything.com/work/15186126
http://www.librarything.com/work/15186129
http://www.librarything.com/work/15186132
http://www.librarything.com/work/15186136

with:
The Shorter Bartlett's Familiar Quotations
http://www.librarything.com/work/15185841

I suspect that these two should be combined but neither has an author listed.

http://www.librarything.com/work/10634575/editions
http://www.librarything.com/work/10634573

>139 MarthaJeanne: Here's the book on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Hypoglycemia-Better-Approach-Paavo-Airola/dp/093209001X

(Not sure whether that's helpful, but just in case it is)

Turns out he's a very prolific author. Here's the copy of that book on his author page:

https://www.librarything.com/work/1329348

Hello, could someone please combine:

https://www.librarything.com/work/5283530

and

https://www.librarything.com/work/15186537/book/110906396

Thanks!

>141 LolaWalser: Done :)

>138 rce1nyu: Done.

>139 MarthaJeanne: Done.

Only marginally a combining problem, but could someone sort out this

http://www.librarything.com/author/millerjp-1

as the last time I tried to edit an author separated from another of the same name, I ended up re-combining their works. It's certainly true that JP Miller didn't employ full stops in his name, but likewise it's true as well that my user name isn't blue(no upper-case)piano. Ta.

It appears to me as if an author combination has produced unintended results:
https://www.librarything.com/author/2598599714/issues

The author's name now shows up in my books in Cyrillic letters. There's also an abbreviation added to the name which I transcribe as psevd. and interpret as "pseudonym".

Can anyone explain what happened and how to fix it?

I've put in a canonical name, which takes care of the Cyrillic. The rest of the CK should be moved.

Please combine:
Charles G. Shaw (1892–1974) https://www.librarything.com/author/shawcharlesg
Charles Green Shaw https://www.librarything.com/author/shawcharlesgreen
Same guy, but I can't combine the two.

>148 feldamundo: Done

http://www.librarything.com/work/14609672
http://www.librarything.com/work/3038178/covers

On the cover page it becomes clear that at least one copy in the 30 copy work is abridged. According to WorldCat the most recent edition is 1963. Should I combine them or leave separate?

>147 MarthaJeanne: Thank you!

> 150, MarthaJeanne: It appears the 1958 Harcourt original now carries the only associated ISBN, and the "Abridged Edition" covers IDs it as being by Deus Books, apparently an imprint of Paulist Press, which corresponds to WorldCat's report of formats and editions tied to the original. I found and moved one copy in the complete Work record with "Deus Books" in the Title; added Canonical Titles and Disambiguation Notes to each, recalculated Editons, Title/Authors, and Covers. Somebody may want to connect "Francis X. Weiser" (per the Cover images) and "Franz Xavier Weiser" (per WorldCat). Otherwise, and unless somebody has a better idea (a high likelihood!), I think we've done what we can. As always, please let me know if & how I'm wrong, and thanks for your help.

The author names are combined, that isn't an issue.

I just came across this, looking at my entry, and realized that the main work (still) includes at least some abridged versions and wondered about the usefulness of keeping them separate.

In principle, the distinction's useful in the same, critically essential way that distinguishing between complete and abridged editions of Gulliver's Travels is useful. (I actually got in a bind over that one, as there's no indication my Dad's old edition is abridged -- until I got to a test in school; I aced three out of four voyages, but was clueless on the fourth.) In practice, à la the Cocktail Party Test, I suspect it's less important. It's not like somebody who's only read the abridged version of Handbook of Christian Feasts and Customs is at a serious disadvantage vis-à-vis somebody who's read the complete, original edition. I dare say, someone who's read the whole thing (and finds that important) may have the worse problem, but somebody who's only read the abridged version might intercede with the host, hostess & other guests. :)

http://www.librarything.com/author/oneillpaul-2

I've got the curator Paul O'Neill separate from other Paul O'Neills but I can't get his book Private Views attributed to him; instead, I've somehow got it listed as a different book w. same title by Architectural Digest:

http://www.librarything.com/work/4070358

Thanks.

>155 bluepiano: That should do it.

The Gulag Archipelago as a Series, http://www.librarything.com/series/The+Gulag+Archipelago , desperately needs LOTS of help. I've searched both the LT Site and Solzhenitsyn's Author listings, and added as Series entries any occurrences I found that appear evident; but their proper separation and recombination are beyond me just now. In the interest of not letting the perfect get in the way of the good, all assistance would be gratefully accepted -- whether rhyme or reason, and not necessarily both. Thank you!

Good lord, why are there so many different ones?? Surely a number of those ought to be combined?

>158 .Monkey.:: My thoughts exactly. All I really wanted was to add my 1-2-3 (OK, my I-II, III-IV, V-VII) with others like them.

Please could some combine Ward Lock's Dartmoor by Ward Lock https://www.librarything.com/work/13535854/summary/70959346 (which I have but is showing as a zero edition) and Guide to Dartmoor by Ward Lock https://www.librarything.com/work/11043600/summary , which is the same work, and is showing me as having even though when I click on my book in my library it takes me to the zero edition!

Many thanks :)

>160 DuncanHill: Done; but now your first link goes nowhere.

Thank you :)

I've found a book that needs fixing beyond what I understand or know.

https://www.librarything.com/work/8746760/workdetails

I had added an illustrator to a book I just purchased, and was happy to see that the same person had illustrated at least one other cookbook. The problem with that other cookbook is that whoever entered it has added it with the author all on one line.

The author's "name" appears as "Doris B. Young; Ellen A. Nelson (illustrator)" and even more confusing, the book title appears to be "Kim's Bookbook" in at least one library.

https://www.librarything.com/work/3247362/book/16808172

The author of Kim's Cookbook is Doris B. Young. Ellen A. Nelson is an illustrator (and not an author).

Heloise Frost is the author of the book I just purchased (with Ellen A. Nelson as the illustrator).

> 163: Fixed

National Geographic single issues

https://www.librarything.com/work/15220299/editions
https://www.librarything.com/work/15220297/editions
https://www.librarything.com/work/15220298/editions
https://www.librarything.com/work/15220301/editions

Two of those are 0 editions, they don't show up on the edition page, different authors ...

---------

https://www.librarything.com/work/10322836
https://www.librarything.com/work/15191495
need taking apart and recombining with the proper works, but as I will again have trouble, I'll leave it to soemone who can finish it.

Here's an entry that needs lots of work:

https://www.librarything.com/work/1879281/editions/68183858

The Complete Winnie-the Pooh. This should be the entry for the omnibus edition of Winnie the Pooh and House at Pooh Corner. Seems there are a ton of editions in there also containing poems etc. For example, there's "The World of Pooh" and "A World of Winnie-the-Pooh", which seem to have different content; one belonging there and one not.
Any takers?
I could take a look at the foreign versions once the English ones are sorted out; I'm guessing there are a few strays there as well.

Good luck :)

Hello,

I'm posting from a Legacy Library account, and I need the Russian book Два города to be combined with A Tale of Two Cities, but I ran into an error when trying to do so. (The authors have already been combined, fyi.)

The Russian book is here: https://www.librarything.com/work/15222001

Can anyone help or advise?

- Katya0133

@167 - Done!

Thank you!

@165 - Done, as far as I can tell!

Please combine these books.

https://www.librarything.com/work/14945276
https://www.librarything.com/work/12619393

I'm not awake, not caffeinated enough, and completely untrustworthy at this hour.

Thanks very much in advance.

@171 - Done :)

This might be ultimately a combining problem, but I don't know--

A general search for The Master and Margarita, Bulgakov, gives me M & M: comics version, studies of, two-part editions, an edition pairing it with another Bulgakov work. Yet a search in 'your books' quite rightly includes the novel itself, listed by nearly 12,000 members. What's the reason for the discrepancy? and if it is a combining problem, what's caused it?

As always, ta.

Could someone please combine

http://www.librarything.de/work/15120949 and
http://www.librarything.de/work/15225536

"Gebhardt" (the first editor) is just the standard name of the series, the author of this book written long after Gebhardt's death is Erdmann.

As always, thanks in advance

>174 AndreasP: Done.

With Gebhardt, though, please beware that there are many different editions that are also divided in different ways; the new, current edition has 24 volumes (still in progress, although most volumes have been published). The dtv-edition only has 22 volumes, for example.

Wikipedia entry here:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handbuch_der_deutschen_Geschichte

Publisher info regarding the new edition here:
http://www.klett-cotta.de/buecher/sachbuch/geschichte/gebhardt_handbuch

I'll gladly help with translation issues etc. It's too big of a project for me to tackle at the moment!

We only have the 9th and 10th editions, I think. I created three series:

Gebhardt Handbuch der deutschen Geschichte 9. Auflage

Gebhardt Handbuch der deutschen Geschichte 9. Auflage – Taschenbuchausgabe

Gebhardt Handbuch der deutschen Geschichte 10. Auflage

Two more that I can't combine:

1)

http://www.librarything.de/work/3085979 and
http://www.librarything.de/work/7114369

2)

http://www.librarything.de/work/9687939 and
http://www.librarything.de/work/14027897

>178 AndreasP: Done.

http://www.librarything.com/work/14584863/editions
http://www.librarything.com/work/15022641/editions (0 copy)

please combine:

0 copies
http://www.librarything.com/work/9983545

with

http://www.librarything.com/work/9983342 4 copies

>181 guurtjesboekenkast: Done.

Just when I thought I was getting the hang of things...

I have a puzzle that I just do not seem to be able to solve. I added in a copy of Canterbury Tales, and carefully went to the work-only work page, to confirm the other authors (Skeat as an editor, and Untermeyer for the introduction). Simple, right?

Nope.

I've stared at Louis Untermeyer's page until I feel like my eyes are crossing.

https://www.librarything.com/author/untermeyerlouis

No matter how many times I've hit the Recalculate Title/Author, the Introduction does not show up for "Also by Louis Untermeyer" (and I also checked to make sure it wasn't in the regular works).

https://www.librarything.com/work/9978&titleauthorredo=1648595884

Now mind you, Walter W. Skeat as an Editor shows up just fine on his page, so I'm pretty sure this is not a database/caching issue.

Help? Please?

It's there now.

This kind of problem always eludes me. I just added a book, and LT knows about one other edition, but there are two.

Here's the one that's confusing me:

https://www.librarything.com/work/10723034

Here's mine:

https://www.librarything.com/work/14524778/book/111556336

Never mind. I managed it on my own. Hooray!

I would like to request the Brain Quest books be combined into one series. I'm not sure if this is the place to put in the request?

There is a series listed, but it only contains one item.

There are several Brain Quest works, all seemingly different works. What exactly would you want to be done?

If you want a Brain Quest series, you can add to the one already on LT yourself by putting in the series information in the Series box of the CK of each work you find on LT.

#186 by @humouress> OK; there's now a Brain Quest Series, http://www.librarything.com/series/Brain+Quest , but it needs lots of TLC -- separating, combining, identifying numbers, etc. But it's a start ...

>188 jasbro: Oh, wow! Thank you!

Is there any trick to combining, separating etc.? I don't mind trying it, but I don't want to pull the matchstick from the bottom of the pile and bring the whole of LT crashing down, or anything.

Could someone combine these entries please:
https://www.librarything.com/work/1555277
https://www.librarything.com/work/15250667
https://www.librarything.com/work/15250678
https://www.librarything.com/work/15250679

All four are volume 1 of the manga version of Ballad of a Shinigami (I separated the latter three from being wrongly combined with the light novel, but am unable to merge them with the correct entry). Thanks.

Hi there - Whilst I've been on Librarything for a while, I've never really felt confident about combining separating and disambiguating. Is there someone that might be able to help me? I've just added a book Architecture in the South Pacific - The Ocean of Islands One of the authors James Conner is my father and I know he didn't write Kepler's Witch or The Holy Bible. He did however write A Guide to Canberra Buildings How do I go about separating him out? Thanks in advance for helping out the luddite.

>191 alexdaw: The first thing I had to do was to confirm James Conner in other authors on the book page of the first book. Then it was possible to separate various James Conners.

You have entered the name for A Guide to Canberra Buildings with the author name JR Conner, so I aliased James Conner1 to that author page.

You can leave things as they are now, which is fine until another author is entered as JR Conner. You can change either or both names so that they match. My personal suggestion is that you change your author at least for Canberra to James Rex Conner, so that his main author page is under the most unique name. If you PM me, I'll be glad to make the changes to the division page to match whatever you decide to do.

Edited to add: We have worked together to get this finished.

#190 by @kuuderes_shadow> Done!

Is there a distinction that we should maintain between https://www.librarything.com/work/5261397 and https://www.librarything.com/work/15250667 ? And is there reason to preserve the Series https://www.librarything.com/series/Ballad+of+a+Shinigami+Manga in light of https://www.librarything.com/series/Ballad+of+a+Shinigami ?

#189 by @humouress> You're very welcome!

No tricks, just practice. Absent malice, the worst I think we can do is undo what somebody else has already done. Then we just do it all over again. (Does that seem Sisyphean? Yeah, sometimes ... .)

Separating happens one record (or group of records) at a time; combining can be done in multiples, so long as no more than one combining candidate includes more than 200 copies -- then you'd ask for LT staff help, or post a request here. Your best starting place is likely going to be the Work's "Editions" page, accessed from the left-margin list. Once you've done a combination from among the suggestions there, LT may suggest further possible combinations on the "combining results" page.

Focus on:

-- what you know about, or at least have very, very high confidence in (for example, if you find a copy of Ulysses among The Joy of Cooking, separate and recombine it with the correct Work record -- please!);

-- Titles, especially deliberate distinctions within titles, such as "{abridged}" or "{video}";

-- Disambiguation Notices, which we add to help differentiate between otherwise confusingly similar Titles (they come up ALL THE TIME, but of course I can't think of one now ... ); and

-- after Titles, consider ISBNs (many of us are less likely to focus on editing or correcting ISBNs than our Titles, and sometimes the ISBN is just plain wrong, or even reused or shared between different Works, which makes them useful & potentially informative, but not controlling, for separating/combining).

There's lots more guidance developed over the life of these threads, repeated in the notes and links at post 1 to this (& every) "Combining/Separating (Please Fix This Book!) Request Thread." And, when in doubt, do as you've done here -- just ask!

If other Combiners have thoughts or suggestions to add, please chime in. Thanks to you all!

#190 by @kuuderes_shadow> Is there a distinction that we should maintain between https://www.librarything.com/work/5261397 and https://www.librarything.com/work/15250667 ? And is there reason to preserve the Series https://www.librarything.com/series/Ballad+of+a+Shinigami+Manga in light of https://www.librarything.com/series/Ballad+of+a+Shinigami ?

https://www.librarything.com/work/5261397 and https://www.librarything.com/series/Ballad+of+a+Shinigami are for the light novel series.
https://www.librarything.com/work/15250667 and https://www.librarything.com/series/Ballad+of+a+Shinigami+Manga are for the manga adaptation of said light novel series.

They are not the same, are not interchangeable and do not want combining.

I found something I just don't understand, so I hope someone with more experience in weird matters can help :-)

I recently added a book by "Karl Eskelund" to my library, so I expected that both would show up on his author page, but no. The one I added some time ago:

"Karl Eskelund: Min kone spiser med pinde"
http://www.librarything.com/work/65432/book/21989052

seems to have been combined with Alex Kershaw: The longest winter.
???

If you go to http://www.librarything.com/work/65432/book/21989052 and click on "Karl Eskelund" you can see that "Karl Eskelund: Min kone spiser med pinde" is not listed among his books, which surprised me a bit.
All the "Karl Eskelund: Min kone spiser med pinde" should be removed from "Alex Kershaw: The longest winter" and end up as credited to Karl Eskelund and not Alex Kershaw.

Please help.

>197 bnielsen: No idea how that happened, but I think I fixed it.

Could someone who knows the magic please take care of this zero-copy work: http://www.librarything.com/work/15252619

>198 stortemelk: Thanks a lot! And yes, it looks like it is indeed fixed.

#198 by @stortemelk> Done. And, with that, this thread is CLOSED. Please continue our discussions at Combining/Separating (Please Fix This Book!) Request Thread #64 -- http://www.librarything.com/topic/179312 . Thank you!

This zero-copy:

https://www.librarything.com/work/15379867

Needs to be combined with:

https://www.librarything.com/work/15379867

Work is "F.E : the life of F.E.Smith, first Earl of Birkenhead"

Sorry! Just noticed the thread was closed, have re-posted in the new one.